Lexus LS 400/LS 430

ljflx · November 2003

I will have to see that Flint mica in person. I'd expect the car will look great in that color but having not seen it yet who knows. I'm between black, cypress pearl and the flint mica right now when I re-up a new lease in early 2004. I wasn't crazy about the LS in white in the 2001-03 years but maybe the styling tweaks will make a difference. One thing great about white and silver is that they hide dirt real well.

antlers1 · November 2003

You should have more choices for the LS430 for younger clients who can afford this car, such as cobalt or azure blue, pale yellow, aquamarine, or fire engine red, rather than just multiple shades of white, silver-grey, or black.

anthonycecil · November 2003

Although the dark colors can look great, they are really a pain to keep up. After the first zano, and the newness fades --pay attention- Tony

bitkahuna · November 2003

Agreed Tony - I will NEVER own a dark car again, they are a royal pain to keep clean. My car now is silver, which is a cinch. Almost always looks good. Only thing that really needs cleaning to make it look great is the wheels!

allan441 · November 2003

I just bought the 2004 LS in the Briarwoood Pearl color. It is magnificant!!. Especially with the gold package and chrome wheels. I had a 2001 LS Blue Pearl , which was a pain to keep clean. It showed every bit of dust, and water mark. The new Briarwood, shows no dirt, and shimmers in the sunlight. Thank goodness not everyone likes the some color. Also I won't have any difficulty identifying my car in the parking lot!!

newlexi · November 2003

I own a 2001 LS430. I cannot comment on what the dealer told you, I can only tell you about my experience. The look of the new DVD is largely the same as the old one, even though I noticed certain features that I have not seen before such as signs of churches, golf courses, etc. The new DVD has definitely a significant map update. It is difficult for me to guess the cut-off date of the new map, since at least in one place a road which is still under construction is already in the map, while in another place, a freeway on/off ramp that was finished about 6 months ago is not yet in the map. I live in a rapidly expanding area, and my guess is that at least 2-3 years of additional road construction have been added to the new map.

lehighlexus · November 2003

Being young myself I understand what ou are saying. But when you look at the LS, it just wouldn't look right in any other colors. (Could you imagine what it would look like in fire engine red?) The LS is intended to look more luxurious, rather than share colors with an IS, SC, SL, etc.

paulchiu · November 2003

Saw this magazine at the newstand this morning. The LS430 is the top premium car. The "cons" were small rear seats and tiny trunk. I guess people were probably comparing the LS430 with the S500. I agree after owning the S500, that the overly space in the LS430 is indeed tighter. But this also makes the LS430 sportier.

The "pros" were supreme quietness, among others. This point I do not agree 100%, as minor creaks makes it on par with the S500.

cacman · November 2003

One - I want to let you know how much I appreciate your advice/knowledge of the Lexus. My question is - Having just purchased a 98 LS with 67k miles - what maintenance - other than normal oil changes - would you perform? I noticed that you stated you would not change trans/brake fluid, or anti-freeze etc. - Also, is there any particular type of oil I should be using with the LS - I live in the north, therefore, the car will see winter driving. One more question, when I press my VSC button, nothing lights up on the dash - ie VCS off. Should it light up if I press this button? There are no errors that show up upon start-up of the car. Thanks in advance for your help.

ljflx · November 2003

I'm surprised at the trunk comment because I remember stories about how the trunk was supposedly one of the larger ones (or maybe even the largest) in the group back in 2001. I don't remember the size of the S-class trunk and never looked at any of the others as these were the only two cars I had evaluated back then.

paulchiu · November 2003

I was surprised too. The only thing I can add is that the width of the S500 is larger, so bigger luggage can be transferred easier. The BMW trunk is deeper. Overall, I think you are right as to the cubic inches space among the big three.

Or perhaps the JD Powers folks were comparing the LS430 with the American luxos. We all know that the Town Car can even make Tony Soprano happy with its trunk capacity !

wwest · November 2003

First, go to a Lexus dealer and find what maintenance has been done, regularly scheduled, etc.

I only use Mobil 1 and I always buy my filters, oil, engine air, at Lexus. Each fall I test the anti-freeze to be sure it's still up to snuff.

I probably change the engine air filter more often than the factory recommends. And that's definitely true of the pollen filter (home depot), 8,000 miles seems typical for it.

I don't have VSC that can be turned off, does anyone? Dealer might be the best source for that question.

The one on my C4 can, but not the RX.

michael_mattox · November 2003

My understanding is the LS430 trunk is 20 cubic feet...That is pretty big (I admit I did think it was smaller when I first saw it)

It easily holds two sets of golf clubs with pull carts...What more does an old guy need.

ljflx · November 2003

The towncar is set up as a limo so it needs that huge trunk. But our friend Tony Soprano would use the trunk storage for different purposes of course. I am amazed at how I never get a cadillac limo anymore when I am going to the airport or on those infrequent weekend hotel stays my wife and I sometimes do in Manhattan. I once had an S-class take me home from JFK. Best limo I was ever in. But nothing can displace the charm of the London taxis.

paulchiu · November 2003

If you enjoy London, I am sure you will love Hong Kong. The Four Seasons and the Mandarin Oriental are some that has airport pick ups with vintage Rolls.

niceputt · November 2003

Of course it's so subjective when colors come into play... I'm about to order an LS430. I decided on black based on the brochure color chips. Went to a dealer to see a black one in person. Something just didn't look right. I have always liked silver but those didn't look particularly great either. I went back to a dealer this weekend and figured out the black issue as well as the silver. The black, while imo a gorgeous color (and really not that hard to maintain if you stay on top of it) sort of 'emphasizes' the boxy look of the LS430 (compared to the MBZ S430). The reason the Mercury Metallic silver looked so bland was that (1)the alloy wheels it sported were also gray/silver and so they just 'blended in' with the body color. (2) the car also had been sitting in a back lot and had a thick coat of dust on it. Then I happened to walk by the detailing garage and saw a Mercury Metallic inside. It absolutely sparkled and the color looked gorgeously translucent. What really set off the looks of the car was the wheels. Although they were standard size (no reduced mileage issues), they sported the chrome rims, which contrasted nicely with the body, lending it a luxurious and sporty look. Thats my choice and I am very comfy with it.

marinrain · November 2003

Has anyone bought a 2004 with XM radio? Was it factory installed or dealer? How much did it cost? (I bought an ES 330 and was told it would be available later) - thx

ljflx · November 2003

Is the mercury metallic really any different than the millenium silver (which I have) on the 2003 and earlier models. If so what is different about it?

Paul - I love London but have never been to Hong Kong. I'll have to get there before too much longer. My favorite hotels to date are the Ritz Carlton in Naples (Fla) and the Peninsula in Beverly Hills. Dining at the Ritz in Naples in the Grand Dining room or the Grill room is a great experience. In the latter I had, quite possibly the finest individual steak I've ever had (Peter Lugers of course is alwasy steak for many). I also love the Palace on Madison near St Patricks when I go into NYC and just about any hotel that overlooks Central park.

niceputt · November 2003

I wouldn't stake much money on my expertise in colors. While the chips look alike to me, my in-person experience reflected a much deeper 'transluscence' or 'depth' in the Mercury Metallic. Sort of a liquid metallic appearance if you get out of direct sunlight. Thats imo only.

jamesfletcher2 · November 2003

When I returned from a business trip, I found the new issue of Car and Driver over the weekend and it had a comparison of the 2004 Lexus LS, Jaguar XJ, Mercedes S430, BMW 745i, VW Phaeton and Audi 8L. The great news is that the LS430 came in 1st place!

The authors noted that the LS just does so many things well that it just overwhelms you. The amazing thing is that the completely redesigned BMW 745i only came in 3rd and the S430 was last place. The Jaguar was 2nd with the Audi and VW ahead of the Mercedes.

Unfortunately, Lexus did not give them a LS430 with the optional Euro-tuned Sport suspension with its 18 wheels and more aggressive rubber or the score would have been even more tilted (a fact noted by the author with a suggestion that buyers go for the Euro Sport suspension). It got some lower scoring in certain performance areas where the optional suspension would make a positive difference.

I will post the link once Car and Driver puts the new issue on their Web site. Obviously, they must hold off a little bit for the new issues of the magazine to be read by subscribers. Of course, each of these trade magazines has their prejudices but in the past Car and Driver has seemed to go out of their way to be hard on the Lexus LS.

Any way, three cheers for the new LS.

paulchiu · November 2003

I haven't gotten my C&D, but based on history, the editors there seems to always rate BMW cars near the top, and Benz near the bottom. Ranking LS430 at the top is strange, as they did trash the car as recently as 2 years ago in a comparo with the very same cars jamesfletcher2 mentioned. Frankly, the 2004 version isn't all that different from the 2001 version. Sure, it goes faster with the 6 speed from 6.3 to 5.9 seconds, and the chassis has been made more rigid, but it's really the same design, same leather seats, same suede linings over our heads.

So for C&D to rate the LS430 now at the top is nice for all of us LS430'philes, but raises the question as to how objective the editors were. Looking at the number of Lexus ads these days lead us to wonder.

flint350 · November 2003

Nav update: I didn't find it particularly difficutlt to do, nor did I find the screws hard to replace (I did use a magnetic screwdriver out of habit, but it all fit together well). I did find the same as someone else said, an interesting mix of very new info (both POI's and roads) and some still missing. THere are also some new icons, but not a total new look. (I haven't seen the newer cars, so I don't know how the new navs look anyway - but the look isn't that important to me- it's the info update I wanted and got - especially the 5 million POI's vs. about 750,000). Someone else said it was recommended to wait as a new update was imminent - that is not what I was told. This update was the new one, only available as of October 1, 2003 and shows ver. 2003. (if a new one does show up, i won't be pleased)

Colors - I still love my Black Cherry but am honored that Lexus has named a new color after me. (hehe)

VSC - in my 2001 Ultra - there is a VSC button that can be used to turn the VSC "off". This is only useful (as far as I know) in case of trying to start moving from a hill in snow or slippery conditions. The VSC will sense the spinning wheels and keep you from moving at all. Turning it "off" temporarily can get you going up the hill - then you turn it back on to save your slipping butt as normal. It does activate a light in the instrument cluster to warn you if it is OFF. (This button and the "height adjust" button are probably the two least used in my car ever - how about yours? quick poll??)

Think that's everything.

anthonycecil · November 2003

I have started to use the height control, but certainly can`t tell or see and difference. My motto is use it or loose it Tony ps after ten or fiftten thousand miles the car is not nearly as nice as when tires were new. Amazing what a new set of tires can do.

feverhart · November 2003

Called Lexus cutomer service about the next update. The next (2004) update is not due to be released until the FALL 2004. That's a year away. Some dealers are apparently having a wait time to receive the latest 03 v.1.

wwest · November 2003

After over 100k miles my 92 LS needed about a half pint of power steering fluid. And I guess I must finally break down and replace the anti-freeze as it's looking more murky than red.

bluestar1 · November 2003

Current NAV update is Sept 2003, released Sept 30th, 2003 or thereabouts. Just got mine upgraded.

While at the dealership, I asked about replacing the timing belt. My service personnel told me they do not recommend changing until 120K mile service or even 150K mile, but certainly only few get changed at 90K miles. Just an FYI for anyone wondering about this.

flint350 · November 2003

Yep. That is more in line with what I was told (and acted on). The most current update was the one just released on Oct 1, 2003. It was the one with 5 million POI's and the cost went up from $250 to $288 (self-install). I ordered mine on Sept. 25th or so and got it UPS on Oct 3rd I believe. Good service and easy install. I figured it was finally time to update (from the ver. 2000 that came with my 2001 LS) and I wasn't about to pay the local dealers $500 bucks - which amounted to the same $288 plus about $212 more for the 10 minute install. Good hourly wage ($1200/hour) if you can get it.

jerryh6 · November 2003

Bluesrar1
May I ask where is the dealer that said 120K to 150K. On Long Island N.Y. it is 90K on all the dealer recomended lists. Also what are his recomendations for the 45K and 60K service.

pietwo · November 2003

I have more or less decided to buy my wife an RX330. In the process of research I decided I should buy a LS430 for myself; it only seemed fair. My budget, at the moment is limited to $83K before taxes, title, etc. My questions and choices are these, a) can I by an RX330 and L430 for $83K or do I a) expand my budget, if so to what? b) cut the options on the RX, or c) "dis" the RX and buy her a used Honda Pilot for $27K.

I'm also interested in Internet dealer suggestionsin AZ and in states contiguous to AZ. Also, Houston TX will work for me.

Lastly, is there any difference in emission standards between CA and the rest of the world?

rgsw · November 2003

Dealer advises the "Toyota" XM radio receiver is not available yet in this area. The "after market" would not be compatible with the Lexus "Nav/Audio" interface. I'm sure the "Toyota" receiver will be more costly than the "after market" but I prefer the "real thing".

bluestar1 · November 2003

My dealer is Lexus of Carlsbad, located in San Diego, California. There 45K and 60K miles are posted in their service manual. I cannot lay my hand on it right now, when I do I'll post it here. My 60K miles covered stuff like oil change, air filter change, a/c filter change, spark plugs, etc... cost was $650 or so. Cannot remember since it's been about a year ago now. Didn't do the 45K mile service, only the 30K and 60K mile service.

JBaumgart · November 2003

"In the process of research I decided I should buy a LS430 for myself; it only seemed fair."

It would fairer still if you bought an ES330 for yourself, then you would have plenty of money left over to get a fully loaded RX330 for her!
:-)

Simple arithmetic says that $83k will not buy both an LS and RX if they are both new.

bluestar1 · November 2003

why not an LS430 for him, and an ES330 for her if that budget is stretched by another $10K or so. But that Honda Pilot for her sounds real good, afterall Honda's reputation may be second only to Toyota/Lexus, and the Pilot has been a big hit. My vote is LS430 for him, Pilot for her. We guys deserve better, don't we ?

JBaumgart · November 2003

Absolutely - what the heck was I thinking? <g> The Pilot would be a good choice if she would want to drive something that big. Maybe if she wanted to go green a new Prius would be the ticket, then he could get a LS, nicely equipped, and still be within his budget.

tk_det · November 2003

Flint350,

I own a 2002 ES300 but was browsing your board. I read your comments re nav update. I went to lexus parts dot com and the part update for the ES and LS is identical (not surprising) so the systems are probably the same.

So specifically, how hard is it to put in the new disk? What tools etc. are necessary? How is the disk removed and/or inserted? Does it come with installation instructions?

My system is in the trunk. Since I got the car in Dec 2001 my dvd version is 2001 version 1. Does version 2003 version 1 update automatically as it says at the parts site or their "tricks"?

The parts site says the price reflects the "CL" discount. Any idea what that is? Did you have to pose as a dealer or do they sell retail to the public?

Finally, do you think this invalidates the warranty on the NAV system? This last question is just to get your opinion.

Any help you might give is greatly appreciated. I am keenly interested in doing this and saving the installation cost.

Tony

syswei · November 2003

CL is clublexus

michael_mattox · November 2003

DEVORCE HER and get a LS Ultra Luxury for yourself......OR....If you must keep her...

Get the UL for yourself and you will still have enough left over for a nice 3 or 4 year old Mustang Conv. for her.

Good Luck which ever way you go.

jbianco12 · November 2003

What? Get the LS UL for yourself, let the wife take the bus, then keep the change...lol.

wwest · November 2003

Is this thread dominated by single guys that don't have a clue about the "rules of marriage"??

jrasskul · November 2003

Has anyone here been able to drive one with the Euro sport package to cmplare to the regular suspension (non UL package)?

Interetsed in opinions as I have not been able to find one around here to drive.

Thanks in advance.

paulchiu · November 2003

This is why 2 out of 3 marriages fail.

michael_mattox · November 2003

Been married 37 years.....I AM JUST SMART ENOUGHT TO NEVER FOLLOW MY OWN MARRIAGE ADVICE....

oac3 · November 2003

is not about one partner getting MORE than the other. It is about equal partnership (50/50) regardless of who earns more, at least that's what my parents taught me. Been married 13 yrs, wife drives a vehicle of HER choice - Toyota Sequoia, I drive a vehicle of MY choice - an LS, and WE have a third car for other driving needs. Covered all the bases there.

I guess pietwo has $88K and wants an LS (him) and an RX (her). If these were individual choices, but the budget cannot meet these choices, then a real hard choice follows. Who gets what THEY want ?? Ahhh... the joy of marriage....

paulchiu · November 2003

Finally got my C&D, and here are the differences between their full test 2001 Ultra with the 2004 Edition. Remembering that they disliked the 2001 but loved the 2004.

DIFFERENCES from C&D Tests on LS430:

Redline: 6200 (2001) 6250 (2004)
Tranny: 5 speed (2001) 6 speed (2004) MAJOR !!!
Gear Ratios are different due to above.

0-60: 6.7 (2001) 6.3 (2004) MAJOR !!
0-100: 16.7 (2001) 16.4 (2004)
0-120: 26.0 (2001) 24.8 (2004)

1/4 mile: 15.2 @95 (2001) 14.8 @96
Rolling 5-60: 7.3 (2001) 6.7 (2004) MAJOR !!

30-50: 3.7 (2001) 3.4 (2004)
50-70: 4.7 (2001) 4.6 (2004) 1st close one !

TOP SPEED: 132 (2001) 131 (2004) I love my 2003!

NOISE RATINGS !!

Idle: 40 (2001) 36 (2004) God Damn !
Full throttle: 69 (2001) 68 (2004)
70 Cruise: 65 (2001 & 2004) I love my 2003!

BRAKING:

70-0: 171 (2001) 179 (2004) I love my 2003!

HANDLING:

Skidpad: 0.83 (2001) 0.73 (2004) 2004 SUCKS !!!!

GAS USE:

C/D observed fuel eco: 25 (2001) 21 (2004) 2003!

PRICE:

62,261 (in 2001 Dollars) 70,380 (in 2003's)

MY SUBJECTIVE CONCLUSION:

The interior is about the same with more tiny extras in 2004 versus 2001. Outside look is identical from 10 feet. Straight acceleration is clearly better in the 2004; but road handling is WAY better in the old version. Noise is identical as idle quietness can be dangerous, in my view. Think of the times that you will stand and wait for your honey, only to re-start that 'running' engine. Here, Mercedes's S class has Lexus beat, as you cannot do this on a S500.

I think for those of us with pre 2004 LS430; we are not missing much. We should be happy as we wait for the completely new 2006!

As for C&D, I wonder about what the heck happened with their 180 degrees turn on their test comparison. If they had not "lie", BMW should be 1st, then Audi, then the Lexus.

I think Elliot Spitzer should investigate into this !

wwest · November 2003

mine has lasted over forty years because I have always remembered three simple rules...

Rule #1: She is ALWAYS right.

Rule #2: If she's wrong then I must find a way to make her RIGHT.

Rule #3: If all else fails then refer to rule #1.

Those rules and the fact that I love her so very dearly has made my married life absolutely wonderful.

michael_mattox · November 2003

You missed the big one 04 has the tire pressure monitor....

jgwaltney · November 2003

All,
I'm in Nash Tn and have located a 99 LS 400 w/ 29,000 miles - 1 owner, good color (white pearl/tan) std options, w/all records, locally purch and serviced from Lexus dlr here - Asking 29,900, but says they'll look at anything above the 27,000 they can get at local auto auction.

Trying to compare this to a local Lexus CPO of same car, 99 white/tan, with 56,000 miles that has the Lexus CPO new car warranty for a full 3 yrs or up to 100k mi (3 yrs would catch me as I only drive 10k or less per yr)- Dealer asking 29,000 (can be bought for 28,500) - or will sell a 2000 of same exact car w/52,000 mi CPO for 29,900/29,500?

Your thoughts on real value, which and why? private sale vs dealer with more miles but cpo warranty, etc.) - Also, what would you exect in annual depreciation on this vehicle (99 LS 400)over next 5 yrs? - Thx in advance

Jeff

wwest · November 2003

Which one has HID, other options???

jgwaltney · November 2003

Both cars have HID and are standard "premium package" - no other 'special' options (eg no Nak or Nav, etc.)

pietwo · November 2003

This seems easy. You should have my problems. My opinion is that "Pearl" is an upgrade over "White". 29K is not 56K. Given your mileage, buy the private deal and buy an outside warranty if you think you need it.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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