Mazda MPV: Problems & Solutions

tomj5 · November 2003

When have a very rough engine on an older car the first thing you do is to replace the ignition wires to the plugs(replace with a quailty brand not Kmart types. Wires should be replaced 50K miles). Plugs should be replaced also, (use type A plugs). Also keep the old plugs and see if they are clogged with burnt oil (bad rings) or if they are white ash covered(bad fuel mix) or if they are dark brown (good). Plugs tell a lot about an engine. Mark which cyl each comes from....

The next is timing or the distributor(maybe cap is cracked)..
The shop should put an Ignition Scope on the ignition system. This will show exactly what is wrong. This is old science and no guess work is required. If the shop doesn't do this then go somewhere else...
(I did this on R4360 engines(56 spark plugs) used on C124 aircraft in late '50s)..

If the ignition system checks out then look for an emission system leak... If none of this works then listen at the tail pipe for a wheezing "Chuf chuf" sound this means a burned leaky valve...

Good Luck
Tj

bsvoller · November 2003

Just a side note for all those folks who have power sliders and love 'em...

More power to you!

We chose not to get them for the reasons I've described, and we're happy not to have them. If you've got 'em and they're working for you, great.

Please do not miscontrue my comments above as a critique of any form.

There have been reports of problems with them, and statistically speaking, they were a source of headache for a lot of folks across all brands for a while (Honda comes to mind...). That doesn't mean yours will fail, of course, any more than the reports of sulfur smell or transmissions shifting hard affect all of us.

'nuff said.

Happy door openings and closings to all of you.

-brianV

braja · November 2003

I get a humming noise, very pronounced at around
50 mph. The noise started after a minor mishap
in which the two passenger side tires were
damaged (and replaced) after impact with the curb.

The van runs normally as before, but for the
hum. The sound wanes (or is drowned out by
ambient noise) after 60 mph, but very audible
below this speed.

I checked the wheel bearings during a recent
tire rotation, and they are reported to be fine.

I'm wondering if the new tires are making the noise (they have about 6000 miles on them now),
or this could be something else.

Any help in figuring this one will be appreciated.

Thanks.

dan2004 · November 2003

I took some more fluid out today and put more Valvoline Maxlife in -- I'm at about 80-85% now.

However I experienced a number of hard shifts today which was very surprising. So I am now working on two theories:

1). The transmission is "learning" to slam with the new fluid (per brianV's posting above)

2). The tranny may be very sensitive to fluid levels.

I carefully adjusted the level (it may have been overfilled slightly when I added the Valvoline) and am now testing again.

The good news is that it does shift better with the Valvoline, so I don't think I wasted my money if the hard shifts persist.

dan2004 · November 2003

Well I've driven around a bit and the tranny is running quite smoothly again. When it ran harshly (after this mornings fluid extraction) I noticed the difference right away and so too after adjusting the fluid level.

With the experience I have so far, I would have to say that the fluid level is the key variable with respect to hard shifting. Changing the fluid certainly made the trany shift smoother and faster but depending on the fluid level I did experience the hard 2-3 shift.

Having said that I'm finding that actually getting an accurate read on the level is no easy feat. Its really hard to tell what the level is even when following instructions precisely. I've noticed that being on level ground is very important.

I will keep the current trany fluid as is for the next few days to see if it continues to shift smoothly or if the issue comes back.

lsinc · November 2003

Tom.....Yeah, I agree about the tranny "big bang" theory. I've had one go on me before. Actually it went 2 times after that. You know the old "I was going north and the tranny went south" business!

Argh!

As to my MPV issues with the hard shift, it does just that it shifts hard once in a while. Otherwise it's wonderful. I do find it strange that so many are having the same issue. It makes me wonder.

In any event, I really love my Peevee too! Good to hear from you!

Leslie

P.S. It's freezing here today. In the high 20's. Bet you wish you were here!!! NOT!

lsinc · November 2003

Yes, it is true that auto sliders on any of the vans have not had good reports. I'm not sure about the others, Ody, Sienna etc. but the MPV you can shut them off. The other thing I try to do is keep the tracks clean. I've had no issues with them.

Leslie

tomj5 · November 2003

It sounds like there is a wobble caused by a bent or cracked rim on the wheels. This could be dangerous.
The solid aluminum rims don't bend, they crack. The crack could be hard to find and shows up when the wheel is under stress (moving). One suggestion is to put the spare on in each location and see if the noise goes away.. If it does then trash the rim and buy a new one...

Steel rims bend and are easy to find. Have a tire shop remove the tire and check the rim for damage and being out of round.... Replace with a new rim.

Good Luck
Tj

tomj5 · November 2003

Dan: Very interesting... Yeah it is hard to get an accurate level check on trannies. The level normally should not make a big difference (+/- 2 pints or so). Keep us informed. It is good someone is doing something besides talking about it.

Mazda knows exactly what is wrong, but they are argueing with the tranny maker on who is going to pay for the fix....(I have been in a few of these kinds of meetings)

Leslie: Yeah the PEEVEE is best car we have ever had. So far no "bumps" in the tranny. I am tempted to have the tranny oil changed but will wait until 30K.
It got down in the 40s last night. The rec center has a huge outdoor hot tub so I am going to do a hot soak today after work out to warm up and catch some rays.....
Happy Thanksgiving (Granddaughter is cooking dinner, she can COOK, Yummmm)

Tj

dan2004 · November 2003

Had quite a bit of driving to do today and the tranny shifted perfectly. I'm keeping my fingers crossed....

If it does turn out to be the fluid level, I'd be very interested to understand exactly why it is having this effect.

dan2004 · November 2003

Had a 100 mile Thanksgiving Day round-trip yesterday with the van loaded with 2 adults and three kids. Highway and stop and go traffic.

It shifted smoothly except at the end of the first leg (50 miles) when the tranny was hottest (after stop & go and relatively warm outside temp) when I experienced two "rougher" shifts, not quite the slamming as before but definitely noticeable. On the way back (at night when temp cooler and not so much stop & go) the tranny shifted perfectly.

My working hypothesis is that when it was running at its hottest, the fluid level increased to the point where the rough shift was induced.

Having my handy extractor and and empty ATF bottle with measurements on the side, I extracted exactly 200 ml (about 6 oz of fluid) while the engine was still hot. Re-measuring at the dipstick, its slightly below the hot full indent as far as I can tell.

If my hypothesis is correct this will eliminate or at least attenuate the remaining "rougher" shifts. I also expect to experience this only when the transmission is at its hottest, if at all. If this happens I will extract maybe 100 ml more, making sure that the level stays above the low hot indent on the dipstick.

If this works, I will initiate a discussion with Mazda on the root cause, which I think could be:

     1. Dipstick misalignment
     2. Poor/inadequate tranny baffle design or misalignment.
     3. Simply too much ATF fluid and a highly sensitive tranny

At this point I I really don't think that my problem is caused by the TCM. Its also interesting to note that that the tranny TSB posted on this board has checking the ATF fluid level as the first item.

I wonder how many Mazda service departments actually check levels carefully and extract fluid if they find its slightly overfilled. Or perhaps when they do the new car pre-delivery check, do they add a little extra ATF if the level "seems" too low?

steveeast · November 2003

Perhaps one of the reasons for the TCM fix that Mazda have promised is to decrease this apparent extreme sensitivity to the fluid level?

Steve.

tomj5 · November 2003

Very interesting and very possible... Odd, but possible... I would run it for a couple of thousand miles and have the filter changed..... Just for grins and giggles....
Nope, can't see software having anything to do with problem...
The cause I see, is clogged passages making tranny very sensitive to fluid levels.... Trannies are basically fluid amplifiers that when you change feed flow characteristics you change the final outcome... When you induce distortion (contamnation)into the system you get a totally random process that exhibits strange symptoms....(Ka-bam shift)

I was talking to an old buddy who is involved in the manufacture of gears. He said that nowdays they do precision casting of gears(cheaper) not machining like in yesteryears. There is a significant wearin process because the gears are not smooth like the machined type. And that wearin generates particles that can cause problems.... He works with motorcycle trannies.... Interesting...

Mazda knows exactly what is wrong, they are fighting over money with the vendor....
Tj

user777 · November 2003

what is the probable root cause then - contamination due to gearing wear-in?

rumor24 · November 2003

So if it is the company who makes the transmission that is at fault, then would it be possible to go after them and bypass Mazda? Can you sue 2nd party offenders? Madza would be the parent and responsible party, but perhaps as a whole we can all go after the tranny manufacturers. I myself took mine on a trip for the holidays, just about an hour 1 way. ok til I got back into town and the start/stop driving began,then it was a series of 4 times hardest first then tapered to lightest and it is back on track. There is significant shift style changes when this occurs. It is sluggish for awhile after this series occurs and yes I agree it is when the van is at it's warmest.

notasoccermom · November 2003

We JUST bought a 2004 MPV last week and took it on our trip to OH to IL. We are now in IL for the Thanksgiving weekend and were on a short trip to the grocery store and at 525 miles on the ODO we experienced the 2-3rd gear shift problem. It was VERY noticable, not just a hard shift but an obvious slippage and slam into third. We absolutely LOVE the van, spent several thousand dollars more than we wanted to (originally went to look at a Kia Sedona), and now this. We are very disappointed because we thought that going with a Mazda vs. a Kia we'd have a better quality vehicle. We are taking it to the dealership when we get back to OH and we are hoping this gets resolved. I'm glad this discussion forum is here to share your experiences with this problem. I've printed out some postings and we'll take it with us to the dealership. Sad.....

dan2004 · November 2003

Did a considerable amount of stop and go driving today with the van fully loaded and the shifting remained smooth. Will continue to update. Its definitely and order of magnitude better than before.

Good luck all.

mjvchicago · November 2003

We just turned 1000 miles on our 2003 MPV and we're loving it. We have experienced the 2-3 hard shifting, but it's seemed to have stopped... no explanation why. Maybe it got used to our driving style. Anyway, was thinking about it and wondered what mileag did people have when they first started feeling the hard shifts... we first noticed it at between 300 and 500. Wondering if there's a connection.

tomj5 · November 2003

My MPV shifts perfectly all the time...
I can't see software causing problem....
The random problems among some MPVs indicates a shifting malfunction caused by bad oil or contamnation.. I have same oil in my MPV... So I would say (not necessarly true) that oil type is ok. So the other possibility is contamnation due to wearin particles(tranny design is good(aka my MPV)).
So the first step is to do a complete flush of the tranny and replace the oil and filter.
Now, who pays for this?? The dealer should, but will they? If I had the problem and the dealer refused to do it, then I would go to a trusted shop(not the Jiffy lube types) and have them do it and pay for it myself.
Then you would know one way or the other....

If I was still working I would take a sample of the oil to the automotive lab have a purity test done...

Has anyone raised the subject of a flush with the dealers???? What was the outcome??? This is a standard procedure for rough shifting trannies... It should not be an issue....

Indications are that a good flush will fix. It is a gamble but buying a car is a gamble...
A flush is not that expensive and has a high possibility of fixing problem. If nothing else change oil and filter... Although a replacement tranny may be necessary depending on how bad the passages are plugged or damaged...

Lawsuits: Only lawyers win.. It takes time and lots of money. Cheaper to pay out of pocket for a new tranny or just live with problem and hope Mazda will come around and fix or replace tranny..
Mazda knows this and longer they delay more money they save...(Maybe they are hoping that the 30K oil change may fix most complaints) Morality is not a consideration in Corporations, only what they can get away with... They ALL do it....

Tj

dan2004 · November 2003

Had a lot of driving to do again today and the hard shifting re-surfaced. Seems to happen only when the tranny is running really hot after a couple of engine-off stops.

I extracted about 50 ml more of fluid but still have problem. The hard shifts seem to come in groups.

That's probably the extent of my experimentation with the beast. Its really a Mazda issue.

Again I would strongly advise any prospective 2004 MPV buyers to hold off purchase until this issue is decisively resolved.

rumor24 · November 2003

I strongly agree, I posted earlier that they come in groups for me also. Not only that, but the van will be sluggish until the van gets it out of its system. Then it runs great again. I think I will post another question to mazda and see what they tell me. I think we have waited long enough.

rumor24 · November 2003

To all of you who are concerned, I have emailed Mazda to look at the forums here, hopefully they will look in all the forums because they are all updated daily. I expressed what has been said here and hopefully they will know how upsetting the issues are. If they contact me, I will let you all know what they have to say about the issues

kolt1 · November 2003

I have been monitoring this discussion because I am considering purchasing a MPV (emphasis on 'considering'). The transmission issue is a real concern, to say the least. I've noticed that Mazda offers an option package with a transmission cooler. Do vans with this option experience the 2-3 hard-shift? (Sorry if this was discussed in earlier posts.)

dan2004 · November 2003

My hard shifting 2004 does have the towing package with the trans oil cooler.

notasoccermom · November 2003

I also have the tranny cooler and mine just started doing the 2nd-3rd hard shift.

dtownfb · November 2003

kolt1: I'm in the same boat as you. I was going to ask the very same question. It seems odd that this has not surfaced earlier.

braja · December 2003

I had a humming noise in my 2000 MPV LX,
prominent at around 50-55 MPH. (I had hit
a curb hard some months ago).

Took the 2000 MPV LX to the dealer on friday.
First, they said the wheel bearings need changing. Then, the mechanic said that as
he put the car in drive, the right front
axle broke. He said the axle was probably
out of the joint and happend to break at
that instant.

Then today, the dealer said the control arm
is bent! Overall, what started out as a $275
job now has an estimate of $1000!.

Wondering if these guys are just screwing
me or if this is a plausible scenario. THe
van has been running fine for several months
now but for the low humming noise.

tomj5 · December 2003

I am not surprised. When you whack a curb hard enouth to bust a tire chances are high for other damage. The $1000 cost seems a little low. There must be a total realighnment check of both axles.
Hope the struts are ok. Alighnment check will find that out. Just be thankful that you are alive and didn't hurt someone else in a crash....
I would say if you can get it repaired under $2000 you are doing good...
Good Luck
Tj

braja · December 2003

Thanks. Fortunately it was within my development
and nobody was around.

notasoccermom · December 2003

Well, I just called the dealership this morning to make an appointment for the 2nd-3rd hard shift we are feeling (5 times in 500 miles, started at 525 on the OD). He said that it is a common problem during break-in and that the TCM is trying to "learn" our driving habits and that is what's causing the hard shift. He said most of the time it straightens itself out and to give it until 3000 miles on the OD. He seemed pretty knowledgable about the problem and confident it wasn't a big deal. He said if it's still doing it then, bring it in and they will replace the TCM. He also said not to worry that the transmission will fall out of the car!

So, we will see.

Dan2004, I'm curious, I read back through a history of your posts and didn't see where you've posted about ever bringing yours in for service on the problem. Did you ever have them try to fix it before you started flushing the fluid?

steveeast · December 2003

Spoke to the service manager at my dealer today. He said that Mazda are not giving him any date for a fix, but are working it.

FWIW, he has 5 MPVs showing the problem. He reckons to have about 300 MPVs in his database, but can't say how many are 2002+ models.

Steve.

subyaudidude · December 2003

I just got a "new" 2003 MPV on Saturday, and I've got no hard-shift problems at all. I put "new" in quotation marks because the one I bought had 750 miles on the odometer when I picked it up. Mazda had had some "run off" days and the MPV was used as a shuttle bus. Anyways, while we haven't had the MPV very long, I've noticed absolutely no problems with the 2-3 shift, and I've driven it cold and hot. Just my $0.02.

rumor24 · December 2003

Yes the dealer has told most of us that it is a learning period. Mine did too til he drove it himself. Mazda knows about the issue and has no time frame as to when it will be fixed. If your dealer needs to be educated, tell him to read the posts in all of the mpv conversations. Don't let them snowball you, I have driven many a car, the learning issue he gave you is just a polite way of saying "i dunno".

dan2004 · December 2003

First time they wasted 3 hours and told me they couldn't find anything and that I should "try to chnage my driving habits." I was so upset I called Mazda corporate from the dealer and talked to the sales manager. The dealer arranged the corporate rep to meet me for a test drive.

With the Mazda rep (second visit) we drove around for about 1 hour and it happened twice, though mild versions.

The rep will now take the car again this week for several hours drive.

Part of my frustration is getting the Mazda organization to just acknowledge this happening!

tomj5 · December 2003

So you are not training the tranny properly....
(Snicker)

That is a good one.... Which means that Mazda doesn't want to pay to fix problem... They are hoping that you will go away and live with it... When the tranny hammers itself long enough it will self destruct (aluminum doesn't hammer without cracking).
Has anyone demanded a Flush and fill and new filter????
This is SOP for hard shifting new trannies...
Mazda knows what is wrong. We are getting a song and dance routine....
Tj...
PS My Mpv has always shifted perfectly(10K miles) Hard shifting is NOT NORMAL......

notasoccermom · December 2003

Yes, I thought it was a bit strange that I had to "train" my tranny--LOL! I've never heard of such a thing and I've had about 10 new cars in my lifetime.

I'll definitely be hammering them when that OD hits 3K, and it won't be long, we rack up the miles on our cars very fast. We'll be going back to IL for Christmas and that's 600 miles round trip right there.

daddioof4 · December 2003

Hi guys, LT since I have been on. Question regarding 2000 MPV. Does this baby have a timing belt or a timing chain? I have 82,000 miles on it and if it's a belt, I am pass due for a new one. If It's a chain, I am okay, right?

rumor24 · December 2003

So that I don't have to retype, please see mazda mpv discussion for return letter from mazda to me, this is information for all who wanted to know.

vickie5 · December 2003

<<He said most of the time it straightens itself out and to give it until 3000 miles on the OD. He seemed pretty knowledgable about the problem and confident it wasn't a big deal.>>

My peevee is at about 5000 miles and the shifting still hasn't "straightened itself out." It seems to have gotten worse. I was in the car yesterday and the phantom shifing banged into gear 5 times. I have started keeping a record and from what I'm seeing it tends to happen when the engine is cold. It's very irritating and I've been to the dealer with it since they are unable to "duplicate it" so that means there's nothing wrong....grrrrrrrr

bigdadi · December 2003

This Hard Shift will slow MPV sales. Tranny problem is not a small isuue. The sooner Mazda finds a solution to it the better. This also affect MPV pre-owned market value. I guess I'll dump PeeVee before the warranty expires if Mazda keeps asking me to bear with the hard-Shift and I won't buy another Mazda again.

Mazda, are you listening?

notasoccermom · December 2003

It slipped 3 times yesterday! I called my father who's a mechanical engineer and rebuilds cars for a hobby and he said it needs to go in NOW. We're not waiting until it has 3k miles on it like the service mgr told me. He said every time it does that (and I described what it's doing exactly) it's damaging the transmission. My younger brother blew out his trans in his Grand Prix by putting it in neutral, revving it and slamming it into drive, and that's exactly what this car is doing to itself right now. I called the dealership and I'm getting a call back from the service manager to make an appointment. Even if all they do is replace the TCM and it doesn't solve the problem, at least I'm getting it in there and it's being documented for lemon law purposes. There must be some good TCM's out there because not every van is doing this.

tomj5 · December 2003

Yep, listen to Dad he is right on.. Get it documented and when MPV is towed back with a hole in the tranny you have it on paper.....
My MPV has always shifted perfectly.. Bet problem is metal particle contamnation not the TCM... Dealer should do a flush and change filter....
Tj

svmazda · December 2003

Our 2002 van is so bad with this problem that it actually causes the van to slip when it's on wet pavement. Dealer has swapped out the TCM twice. Mazda svc has said they can't fix it. I am driving a loaner car for over a week because the Van is dangerous in slippery conditions. I filed a complaint with the NTSB. Regional service manager is more interested in blowing people off than helping. If Mazda was a stand up company it would extend the warranty to 100K miles for all the people that have had to use their van when it slams from gear to gear, but I don't think they really care. They've had automatic transmissions for 50 years (?) and they can't make one that shifts smooth?

tomj5 · December 2003

Take the MPV to a good tranny shop(not dealer) and have a flush and change filter... You have to pay for it but it might work and you would have your car back.... Otherwise only a rebuilt tranny installed is only option left.... Looks like Ford has taken over Mazda. Ford doesn't honor warranties... Keep us informed...
Good Luck....

dan2004 · December 2003

So I took the MPV to the dealer having made an appointment with a factory tech rep to test drive the van. I wrote a detailed desciption of my observations with the tranny and printed comments from this discussion board.

Here is the result:

1) The tech rep completely dismissed Edmunds.com comments--couldn't care less
2) He was able to reproduce two instances of "different shifts" during his test drive, appx 40 miles.
3) He recited what seemed to me a Mazda script that went something like "Mazda MPVs are experiencing occasional hard shifts and we are working on a solution. There is no current solution"
4)He said he downloaded data from my van to a disk and would send it to Mazda in CA for evaluation
5) I asked what the time frame would be for a solution--and this is were it got kinda strange--he started to say how the transmission was shifting normally and that he was going out of his way to accomodate me....
6) The dealer refused to give a summary of their findings to me in writing

Well what can I say, having the hard shift "thing" is one thing but dealing with Orwellian language from Mazda is another.

I am quite frustrated at this point.

backy · December 2003

If I were you, I'd write a letter to the dealer's service manager that summarizes your visit today, including the fact that they duplicated the hard shifts twice, and ask him to respond in writing if he has any disagreement with your summary. That way at least you have some sort of written documentation.

subyaudidude · December 2003

Each State's Attorney General's office should have a consumer affairs division. At the very least I would send a courtesy copy of the letter to the dealership to the AG's office, and make sure the dealer knows that a copy has been sent. You may also want to send a copy to your BBB. In fact, I would recommend that any of you who feel like you're getting the runaround from Mazda and/or your dealer contact your AG's office.

nabman · December 2003

Well here's my 2c for what it's worth. I was driving our 2002 MPV (24kmi) and it shifted so hard that I swore somebody hit us in the rear. So naturally I slammed on the brakes as a knee jerk reaction and somebody NEARLY did run into us. Are you listening MAZDA?

If that's not a safety issue then I'm a moron. I know that I'm not a moron because I've met plenty on the road and I've also been driving for 25+ yrs in nearly every make of car. After that event the wife said, "Oh, I was going to tell you about that. It's been doing that for about 2 months now." AHHHHH. She almost had to walk. I cant bear to imagine what the inside of the tranny looks like. I don't believe a word of the TCM needing to learn unless somehow ours got retarded after 10 months of flawless driving.

Now for the smell. I don't believe previous posts about the smell not getting inside the vehicle. I also dont believe the gas as the problem. I dont know whats changed but I remember that cars smelled during the 70s, but didnt in the 80s & 90s. Now were back to the sink in the 00+. Mazda isnt the only one, Ive smelt a few others.

Ive definitely noticed the smell more in our MPV when I drive than when she drives. So, I believe its partially dependent on how you drive. I also had somebody follow me one day for 50 miles and my buddy said hed never follow an MPV ever again. His wife looked GREEN when she got out. We didnt even notice the smell that day. If thats not a rolling stinking billboard not to buy a Mazda nothing is (are you still listening MAZDA). Personally, I think it stinks all the time and its just how the fumes come out the back and how you drive on any given day. None the less back to the shop it goes.

I have to leave on a positive note: I do really like our MPV despite the current problems. It handles great and the engine is smooth. It's one of the 20+ vehicles I've owned that has a personality. Much cooler than a Honda.
Happy Holidays

triplejmpv · December 2003

First time in this forum and 1st time Mazda owner. We just purchased (Nov 03) a new 2003 MPV ES with Towing Package replacing a 1997 Dodge Caravan Sport, also purchased new (problem free except a/c compressor needed replacing just 30 days after expiry of warranty, urrghh! The odometer now reads 1,200 kilometers and we are experiencing an intermittent HARD SHIFTING (possibly 2-3 shift) with an audible "CLUNK" noise in the transmission both during acceleration and deceleration.

Having read some of your postings here, I plan to take it in to Signature Mazda, Richmond, BC, Canada (Selling Dealer) very soon. Post-servicing result to follow.

I glad I am not alone! :-)

backy · December 2003

On the Sienna Problems board there's news that a TSB involving a software update seems to have solved a hard-shift problem on that van. Interesting...

Mazda MPV: Problems & Solutions

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Mazda MPV: Problems &amp; Solutions

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Mazda MPV: Problems & Solutions