Lexus LS 400/LS 430

stevestein · March 2004

Just a hint now, but have service apt. in about a week and will have them check it again.

rgsw · March 2004

I had an indication of low tire pressure and thought the dealer may have failed to inflate one tire properly as the other three were all 8# high. I reset all to the same 35# and the next day had another TPM alarm. I checked again and the same tire was about 10# lower than the others and had a nail in the edge of the tread. I had the tire replaced by Lexus. The TPM alarm continued to false alarm quite a few times after that. The dealer re-calibrated the TPM and it has not come on since or have any of the tires been low in pressure. In cold weather, I did have the Traction Control alarm come on a few times but it went away by itself. The dealer checked the computer at the next service.

hage57 · March 2004

The 17" Dunlops that were standard on my '01 LS were summer tires and thus worthless in snow and ice. I replaced them with Michelin Pilot Sport A/S and this made a great difference, much better in wet conditions, overall a much superior tire. In addition, imo, they are quieter and ride better, I don't know of a tire that I would rather have. Having said this, they are not winter tires, and if you live where it snows, get a good set of winter tires.

sv7887 · March 2004

Hi All,
I've been having this strange problem with the Rain sensor on my '02 LS. Originally, it would come on randomly during the hot summer months. I took it back to the Lexus dealer, and they said there was a bulletin out on it. The sensor was replaced under warranty. Now, it routinely doesn't come on when it is raining...
Another issue..My warranty expires in Sept 05..Is it worth getting the extended warranty? I bought one on my 92 LS ten years back, but the only issue was a couple of $5 dashbulbs wearing out..I'm worried about this car, b/c it is far more complex than the venerable 92 model. I think some of the issues we're having with the car underscore the problem with cramming too many electronics in a car. Your thoughts?

SV

rgsw · March 2004

I'm also considering purchasing an extended warranty from Lexus for my 2004 LS430 with nav system and smart access. I feel like "SV7887" in that the car is too complicated to go without an extended warranty. I'm told that I can get the extended warranty through Lexus until I have 36 months or 36,ooo miles. I have the XM Radio and am thinking this one is a keeper.

sv7887 · March 2004

Hi All,
Like all of you in the New England area, I was greeted by about 4 inches of snow on my driveway. I attempted to back my '02 LS430 complete with Michelin Artic Alpin snow tires out, and it got stuck going DOWN 4 inches of snow...My son, driving the 1992 LS( Equipped with worn Bridgestone Blizzaks) pulled down effortlessly pointing and laughing...

Ohhh the indignity..I must say I'm quite frustrated with this car. It's performance in the slightest of inclement weather is abominable even with Snow Tires...Driving the car with the provided 17" Dunolops were an accident waiting to happen. SO now what? Trade in the LS for a 4-Matic S Class? Have any of you had better results with a different brand tire? I'd hate to dispose of the Michelins, as the car only has 19K on it. What do you think the best option is?

Thanks,
SV

cyclone4 · March 2004

I know exactly how you feel. I also live in a snow climate (IA) and it was incredibly dangerous driving in snow with the original Dunlops early in the winter season on my brand new 2004 LS430. I had my dealer install a set of Cooper snow tires soon thereafter & I have felt much safer since. These tires have been doing a pretty good job. Obviously, it is still not as good as FWD, but it is a lot better than the Dunlops. By the way, I use to live in Brockton, MA "many moons ago". I visit once or twice a year.

I wish you "happy sleding today" in all that white stuff.

maxhonda99 · March 2004

sv7887,

What size tires do you have?

Have you thought about getting thinner snow tires just for the winter? That may do the trick. With thinner tires you will have more pressure applied to the ground thru the tires, thus improving winter handling.

acco20 · March 2004

Did you have the traction control OFF?

sv7887 · March 2004

Hi All,
Yes I had the TRAC on..It doesn't help on hills anyway. In order to get the car unstuck I had to turn it off. My tire size is 205-60-17. I'm using Michelin Artic Alpin's. I can't believe the difference in behavior between this car and my 92 LS with old (WS-15) Blizzaks (205-65-15)
At the slightest snowfall this car behaves like pig in the snow. Driving with the summer tires is just downright dangerous. Even my 1998 LS didn't behave like this and I never put snow tires on it. I'm really surprised at the ineffectiveness of the Artic Alpins. This is the first time I've gotten stuck going Down a hill..Any suggestions?

Thanks,
SV

wwest · March 2004

comes in a myriad of variaties...

The soft fluffy stuff anyone can drive on...

When it snows here in the Seattle area My first move is to install snowchains on the rear of my AWD RX300.

The only good, for sure, answer to 2WD on snow is snowchains.

And if you expect to get around out there with all the other idiots then AWD and snowchains is your best bet.

I've lived, and driven, in NH, MT, OR, and WA and the only for sure answer is snowchains.

Get used to it!

maxhonda99 · March 2004

sv7887,

Maybe it's the tires then!

Your 92 and 2004 LS's would have similar sized contact patches with the road and the 2004 LS should be a bit heavier, therefore it should do better in the snow.

Strange.

edspider1 · March 2004

I was told by my dealer that 8 state midwest market gets all season tires on 2004. I sure hope that's true, because my 2001 came with summer tires. They are indeed dangerous in any amount of snow. I replaced with Michelin Pilots and while traction wasn't great, I could get around.

I suprised a car bought in Iowa came with summer tires.

acco20 · March 2004

My question was....did you have the trac OFF. You answered, "yes I had the traction on". My point is,the way to get going, in snow, in the Lexus 400, and newer models, is to turn the trac OFF so that the drive wheel will not be slowed if it starts to spin a little. There are better explanations of this, Wess.........maybe you can help?

tomjava · March 2004

Davie,

Check out VW Phaeton first instead of Audi A8.

It'll change your perception on Phaeton.

Enjoy.

NOTE: Right click and save (10mb video)

http://home.comcast.net/~nessal/TopGear-VW_Phaeton.WMV

deklund · March 2004

After much deliberation and researching I have decided on the LS 400. My quandary is which year to buy, 96-99 are well within my price range. I haven't found any information on which year was best or worse. I live in Michigan and need the traction control of course, but can you think of anything else I should be searching for? I appreciate your help in advance, Diane

sv7887 · March 2004

Hi Diane,
I would definitely go for the 1999. The 1996 is an incremental improvement from the original LS400. The post 1998 models incorporate a 290 HP V-8 as well as a five speed automatic transmission. My experience with the '98 was quite good. I felt it was better looking and it performed much better than the 1995-97 model. The 1998 was the first year of production, so I'd be more inclined to go for the 1999. I had some issues with instrument cluster in my 98 that the dealer attributed to first year defects in production. It was nothing major, but the dash lights used to blink for no apparent reason.

The options on those cars are fairly standard. Traction control is called VSC (Vehicle Skid Control), but the car really does require snow tires for winter driving. (Bridgestone Blizzacks are highly recommended) I've had 3 LS cars, and I haven't found the traction control particulary helpful. You have the option of getting Xeon Headlamps with a few other accesories, notably the Wood Steering Wheel. Other options include the Nakaminchi Stereo and on some rare models a Navigation System.

Hope this helps,
SV

ljflx · March 2004

If you are buying an LS400 buy the 98-2000 if you can. They are all great - so you can't go wrong - but the 1998-2000 were upgraded cars with more powerful engines. As well the Nakamichi stereos were excellent in case you find an LS with the Nak included.

sonnyblue · March 2004

I'm planning to purchase either 2000'400 or 2001'430. I've driven in both and must say that 430 is much better, more quiet and refined than 400. But the cost would be about $10K more! My wife actually likes the 400 exterior more. Anyone has any advise for me here???

ljflx · March 2004

You have to understand the pricing dynamics that occurred in 2000 and 2001. The MSRP barely changed between the LS400 and LS430 but the LS430 was red hot in 2001 and for the first 5 months of the model year the car sold at, and in some cases above sticker. On the other hand the LS400 in 2000 was heavily discounted because people were holding out for the LS430. So price will be different because of that as well as because the model year is newer. Next the LS430 has really held its value well - better than the old LS400's did over comparable periods.

Are the two cars similarly equipped? Many of the 2000 and earlier LS400's lacked navigation systems whereas most of the 2001's came with them, even though it was optional.

Bottom line - I'd take the 2001 LS430 without hesitation (it was a major re-design and easily a superior car to the LS400) and I'd feel a lot better about it if I knew it had a few optional goodies that the LS400 lacked. But you'll get a great car either way. The LS400 was a more timeless and classic style on the exterior but the LS430 interior is the best in class.

carfan4sure · March 2004

There is apparently another factory fix for this problem. I had the first fix last year, but with the warm weather coming back, I noticed the screech/groan and moan again. I got the second fix Friday. Next time my car is in the hot weather, I'll see if it moans again.

gteach26 · March 2004

I went last night to look around and saw a 2004 LS430 in dark blue with a light gray interior... boy did that car look nice. I finally got an up-close look of the minor exterior tweeks and I feel they make a nice improvement. The revised front headlights and grill look much sleeker and sporty.

I like the Fort Lauderdale show because even though it is small and has no major "intros" associated with it, it gives one the opportunity to calmly stroll and experience each car first-hand. After sitting in every lux car imaginable I feel the LS430 is still MY personal standard for the lushest interior in the world -- even when compared to more expensive sedans I sat in. Also, I don't know how Lexus does it, but my 6'4" 200++ lb body fits in that car with room to spare.

Lexus knows how to handle a car show -- the LS was fully operational with even the a/c working.. all of the buttons, switches, and displays were ALIVE.. most other car makers had dead cars so that you could not even make seat adjustments when you sat in the vehicle!

To all you LS owners, I think you have made a very wise purchase... and unless competitors come up with something special this year I just might be joining you owners come January.. it is dawning on me more and more each day that the LS IS the COMPLTETE package -- luxury, performance, reliability, and value. It has been a bit frustrating trying to find another car that comes close.

ljflx · March 2004

I'll answer your question over here.

Leases will vary from region to region (wbwynn who's in NC and I found that out in 2001 when we were price shopping and comparing at the same time) even with the same financing bank. The residuals are probably tied to the real upfront payment by other adjustments in the lease. If you buy the car cheaper upfront you're likely to sell it cheaper after 3-4 years - hence a likelyhood for a lower residual. The deal you got on discount off msrp is probably not doable in NJ at this point in a model year (or if it is - it will be 1 in 100 who gets it and it will probably be due to extenuating circumstances of some kind) where the dealerships are more spread out and competition is minor at best. I don't want to drive 70 miles round trip when I have a guy 10 miles away and he's opening a satellite dealership 5 miles away. California and southern Fla seem to have dealerships in closer proximity so the deals are better there.

As for leases - there are always 4 factors that drive the payment. The depreciation factor, the rental payment, the money factor and the residual. You can tug on anyone of them to adjust the overall payment. I look for consistency with prior leases to see what games are being played. In the deal I just took the taxes in the lease were driving me crazy until I remembered there was still a luxury tax in place in 2001. I also look for factors of MSRP to see what the real deal is but you need to strip out the sales tax portion. So maybe a better universal way of checking a lease deal is your total lease payment (adjusted to remove sales tax) plus any downpayment on the car (driveaway cost less security, first month payment, bank and MV fees) plus your residual. Add those up and see what is relationship to MSRP. In my case its about 109%. Bottom line is that driving a hard bargain on a lease is not the same as driving a hard bargain on an outright purchase. It helps but if it reduces the residual by a similar amount you are simply going to pay more for the depreciation in the lease than the guy who didn't bargain hard. The real lease payment is tied to the depreciation. A gross capital cost of say 65k and a residual of 35k is hardly different than a gross cost of 63k and a $33k residual.

Lastly - I checked fleetrates and they were offering custom luxes at $4100 off but it would cost a grand to ship it here which made my deal nearly equal to that and a lot more convenient.

gteach26 - as far as I'm concerned its the best sedan on the planet under $100k and its probably better than some over $100k. Lexus hits the luxury mark about as perfectly as you can hit it.

hage57 · March 2004

Thank you for your reply. Is it fair to say that because I got a good deal on the outright purchase, that, in this case I am only giving it back in the low residual & if this is the case, am I better off buying it outright or leasing from another source? I did forget to mention that this is a single pay lease (that may effect the low money cost). I live in the midwest, and I am 120 miles from the nearest dealer, there are only two that I would deal with, both about the same distance.

ljflx · March 2004

Let me say that the lease deals and outright purchases are relative to where you live - so comparing it to a deal in California, Florida or the east coast is really not important. You want to match or beat the deals others in your neck of the woods are getting. Check Edmunds TMV for your zip code to see how you did there. Chances are that a three year old LS430 will sell cheaper in the same location where it sold cheaper when new. So my higher residual is indicative that the car will resell higher here than by you.

As for lease vs. buy - I'll give you the quick back of the envelope way I do it - usually to ensure I'm getting a fair lease deal. There are better ways - with present value calculators but this will be accurate enough. Lets say your ultra is $71k MSRP and you're getting it for $66k. I'll assume a 6% sales tax so total upfront cost is $69,960. After three years, assuming you could have gotten 4% on your money than the real out of pocket buy cost is $78,695 ($69,960 + $8,735 that you lost in interest as compounded annually). Now let's go to a 36 month lease deal. Lets say it's $1,075 per month and a 50% residual with a $600 lease acquisition fee. So your out pocket is $675 ($600 compounded annually at 4% for 3 years) + $38,700 for the lease + $2,416 in lost interest on your lease payments (take half of the $38,700 or $19,350 and calculate interest at 4% compounded annually) + $35,500 as a buyout + $2,130 (6% tax on buyout). So from a lease perspective - in this example - your lease and buy at lease end is a total cost of $675 + $38,700 + $2,416 + $35,500 + $2,130 or $79,421 vs $78,695. In this example a pretty close call. Substitute your figures and see how it works.

By the way - residuals are always tied to MSRP not your purchase price. So is your 50% figure on the MSRP or on your price after the $5k discount? If it's the latter than it is even lower than 50%.

gteach26 · March 2004

One of my local S. Fla dealers currently has 91 -- yes 91 2004 LS430's in stock -- all colors, most options available RIGHT NOW. Also, you are right, there are 5 dealerships within 100 miles of each other down here -- 7 if you venture out a little bit further west to the Naples/Ft. Myers (still only a couple hours drive though). I LOVE IT!!!!!!

Downside-- some days it seems that EVERYBODY is driving a lexus down here.

ljflx · March 2004

When I was on Long Boat Key I started to wonder if Lexus, MB and Jaguar were the only companies permitted to sell luxury cars over there. I also remember a big Lexus dealership on - is it Samson road - as you head west toward Coral Springs from I95. I used to be there once a month in the late 90's. That whole area was loaded with Lexus cars.

91 LS430's huh? No such luck here. They are just about all pre-sold through late April here and Ray Catena is a big volume dealer. They have to locate my car but have no doubt they will given their size. It was the same in 2001.

milsuperdoc · March 2004

Has anyone in this forum installed a mud/splash guard on his/her LS430? Are there any available? My Lexus dealer does not offer it. Is there any aftermarket ones out there?
Thanks.

hage57 · March 2004

Thank you for the fine analysis, it was very helpful,---and the 50% residual is on the MSRP.

fthera · March 2004

My 03 LS430 with the factory 17" all seasons was not a good experience the first winter. This year I purchased a take off set of 16" Lexus rims on ebay and added a set of Nokian WR's. I went down one tire size to 215-65R-16. These have the same overall diameter as my 17" so no problems with things like speedometer error etc.

They are a HUGE improvement over the factory All Seasons. It now goes as good in the snow as any FWD I have owned and handles great (the pucker factor is GONE). The WR's are also VERY GOOD on dry and wet pavement. In fact they seem to offer a better overall driving experience than the Factory tires. I do notice a slight increase in tire noise, but not enough to bother me.

I do believe that a large part of the traction improvement has to do with going down in size to the narrower 16" tire. The 17" are just to wide a profile for good snow traction.

Frank

michael_mattox · March 2004

The largest Lexus dealer in the US is JM lexus in So. Florida.

The 2ond. largest Lexus dealer is Longo Lexus in So. California

ljflx · March 2004

Do they combine collective dealerships from the same owner. For example - Ray Catena has 2 Lexus dealerships - one in NY and one in NJ and is about to open a third in NJ. So is that viewed as one dealership or 3 dealerships?

michael_mattox · March 2004

I don't know...I don't know if Longo or JM have other dealerships either.

I do know that Longo has held the Lexus Elete designation longer then any other dealer...I think 14 years.

lenscap · March 2004

As I said on the luxury car board, congrats on the new LS! The Flint Mica with black is definitely my favorite color combination on that car without a doubt. I've always loved black interiors (that's all I've ever owned) and I did see a 2004 silver LS when it came last fall that had the black interior with antique wood. You're right, it looks great! I take it the car is not on the lot and that it's due to arrive in the next few weeks...that three weeks can be a long wait. Keep us updated.

I noticed you mentioned about your ex-boss not being able to use his EZpass in his A8. I have an Illinois iPass that I use in my Lexus but it does not work in my girlfriend's father's BMW 740iL. I don't know what BMW coats the glass with but it does prevent the signal from going through.

gteach26 · March 2004

Not sure how to cover this without straying off-topic but I'm curious.. for the people that have non-functioning toll transponders -- are they attached to the windshield by the rearview mirror? Here in Fla. we have the SunPass and if you don't attach it by the rearview mirror it will work VERY sporadically if at all.

ljflx · March 2004

Yes - by the rear view mirror. But when I first got my GX I put the transponder in the center console and forgot about it and a week later went through a toll. It was still read.

lenscap - the nappa leather also is so rich and makes the interior different. They will get the car in a few weeks. Their search success rate is near 100% and I have a 4-5 week window anyway. But I will take a black on black if the Flint Mica is difficult to get. I think the car looks best in flint mica and black. I never saw the cypress and wouldn't take a chance without seeing it first. I'm not sure if the windshield glass is different on the custom lux. I do know the side glass is though. I'll double check. The A8 and 7series are known to have EZpass (or whatever local jargon is) problems as they have thicker glass on the windshield or they laminate it in some way. I don't know of anyone who has the problem in a Mercedes though.

edspider1 · March 2004

My illinois tollway transponder works fine mounted behind the rear view mirror. I have the 01 ultra. I doubt the glass has changed in the 04.

dval · March 2004

EZpass works fine with 04 custom lux. Your car sounds super. I got the black/ecru CL at Ray Catena 2 months ago. Super car! You might be interested to know his dealership group ranks 38 in the country. Sold 14509 new units in 03 with total gross revenue of $829M in all departments. Ranked 49 in 02.

syswei · March 2004

External tags are available for this issue, "The vehicles listed below are equipped with special windshields that contain metal in the glass(metal oxide) that prevents the E-ZPass tag from being read properly. Windshields with solar ray glass, solar tint, heated or heat reflective windshields, and insulated or Insta-Clear glass may also prevent the tag from being read properly." http://www.ezpass.com/static/info/exteriortags.shtml

gteach26 · March 2004

It sure does list MANY cars that could have problems. Here in Fla. My father-in-laws 2001 LS430 Ultra, my 03 Navigator and my wife's RX 300 (both listed on the link) have transponders that work fine from inside the car... Jersey must be using a different system.

jamesfletcher2 · March 2004

I use to have my LS serviced at JM Lexus in Broward County (Ft. Lauderdale area). The dealership is part of JM Family Enterprises the company that has always owned Southeast Toyota Distribution. When Toyota originally came to the USA they were so Conservative that to minimize risk they sold the distributor rights to most all of the SE US states and Texas and most all of the states that surround Texas (called Gulf States Toyota).

Needless to say these have turned into absolute "gold mines" for both Southeast Toyota and Gulf States Toyota. Both distributors get part of the manufacturers mark-up for operating the receiving ports but also add a number of "add-on distributor options" onto all Toyota vehicles (USA assembled also) before they go to dealers to pad their margins even more. I also heard a little while ago that JM Family Enterprises was buying Gulf States Toyota.

When Lexus was being introduced the brand was keep away from the two Toyota distributors but to keep JM Family Enterprises happy they made a special deal with them to give their South Florida Lexus dealership "special allotments" that other Lexis dealers don't get. That is why JM Lexis with almost always have the best selection in the country.

Interestingly, originally Toyota had offered Carrol Shelby the option to buy the Gulf States distributorship but he check with his old friend Lee Iaccoca who told him "not to waste his money since Ford was going to drive those '[non-permissible content removed]' back into the sea". Real smart guy, Lee.

By the way, it also is the best Lexus service department I have ever had the pleasure of using.

ljflx · March 2004

Great story and typical business doings. In its own way Toyota partnered with Gulf states. It's typical to lessen risk and also give you a chanve to put money where your know how exists. The Lee Iaccoca part is so ironic. Lee rebuilt Chrysler - temporarily. The Japanese built Toyota and now Lexus for the long-term.

gteach26 · March 2004

and interesting info on JM Lexus...

...and yes, it is JM in fla that had the 91 2004 LS430's a few days back.. they're down to 89 now.

To sell those LS430's in a reasonable time frame they just gotta be letting them go at VERY reasonable prices.

cyclone4 · March 2004

The several posts above praising the looks of the flint mica with black interior makes me feel good about my choice. I was originally leaning toward the flint mica with ecrue, but my wife and daughter talked me out of it. They kept saying that the contrast is not pleasing to the eye. Anyway, I went with their wishes and I have to say that I am very happy that I did. I have had this car now for about 4 months and I really do love both the exterior & interior choice of colors to go along with the custom luxury package. The black interior looks so rich.

lexuslady · March 2004

On my 2004 LS 430, the tire inflation monitor has has been malfunctioning. With all 5 tires at 32psi as the mfg. suggests, the light is still on. I took it in to the dealer and they bled out all the tires and refilled them to the recommended psi and the light reset. After about 700 miles the light went off again. I stopped to check it out and the tires seemed fine. After another 100 miles I had a blow out. I replaced the tire with a new one, and the light is still on. What is the deal? Is there a problem with the sensors or what? Any suggestions on resetting the sensor? Can this be done anywhere or Must I return to the dealer each time? Any suggestions?

chicagoed · March 2004

Your dealer is feeding you a story, or they are misinformed, if they say they bled the tires and refilled them. The LS tire pressure monitor system does not measure or monitor the actual air pressure in the tires. The only Lexus that does is the SC. The LS has a dynamic system that measures the rotational speed of the four wheels and draws a conclusion about underinflation or, more precisely, unequal inflation. After replacing a tire or refilling them to equal pressure, you should press the TIRE SET button under the dash (see page 362 of the owner's manual) to get the "PRESSURE INITIAL" message on the multi-information display. The LS system is not superior, just easier to implement, plus being prone to false reporting.

gteach26 · March 2004

does the system on the '04 tell you WHICH tire is low or does it just give a general warning?

ljflx · March 2004

Well I may have to go Black on Black instead of the Flint Mica on black afterall. Lexus is only making the custom lux in a handful of colors for the rest of the year. I loved the Flint Mica and there is still a small chance to get it but its looking like I have to move to black. Its not a big deal to me since it was a photo finish for either color anyway. I love the car in both colors. The Flint Mica was just different and not easily seen. But anyone looking for a CL Flint Mica (not the modern lux - that's ok) will likely have to find another color. They've also stopped making the saddle nappa leather - but no disappointment on that - that's for sure.

edspider1 · March 2004

ljflx. I was wondering about that. I noticed www.lexus.com no longer lets you select custom/ul flint w/black. I'm told mine is arriving next week. It must be one of the last. Lucky me!

Black on Black is always stunning.

And yes, that saddle (aka orange) leather option is awful.

ljflx · March 2004

I may still get it given the circulation still coming in from Japan but I'm not counting on it. Either color is stunning with the black interior. I really love this 2004. It rides even smoother than the 2001, has greater power due to the 6 speed, is tighter and I'm looking forward to the laser cruise and other things that I don't have on the 2001 car. What kills me about the CL is that they left on colors I don't like. The moonlight pearl, mystic gold and dark blue are the other CL colors that I remember them mentioning. Perhaps there is another one - I don't remember. Thank God they left the black in there.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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