Lexus LS 400/LS 430

ljflx · June 2004

I was only thinking of the seats. The headliner is beautiful on this car. But smart access is an added cost and not part of the custom lux package. I thought the upgraded interior materials on the headliner, dash etc. that I had were part of the more expensive nappa leather package available on the custom lux (about $600 or so). I didn't realize they were in evey custom lux.

wil1688 · June 2004

Thanks to all you guys, I have decide to opt for the custom lux with ecru leather. Now lets hope the lexus dealer can get the car real fast. Thanks again for the prompt reply.

bcleepe · June 2004

I have Ecru Leather. It came with same color floor mats. After a couple months, I was tired of the marks on the light color floor mats so I spent another $120 for a set of grey color floor mats matching the color on the wood. It is perfect and Lexus should do it in the first place. My advice is to make it part of the deal before you agree to buy.

feverhart · June 2004

Lexus must have heard you. I picked up my Custom Lux with Ecru 2 weeks ago and it had grey floor mats, which I understand all are coming with now.

ljflx · June 2004

Does Lexus support Serius sat radio or XM? Dish network just added Serius to its music station lists (6000 channel series of stations if anyone didn't notice)and the stations I like on it (after listening for the past several weeks)are fabulous.

aggie76 · June 2004

I have to agree with the change in mats also. I picked up my '04 Custom Lux with Ecru almost a month ago and the grey mats were in it, "standard" now. The other 2 Moonlight Pearl LS's with Ecru on the lot, one a Premium and another Ultra, also had grey mats in them. Must be the solution to the clean carpet concern. I am glad they made the change personnally, looks fine to me and helps with dirt. I will switch to WeatherTech rubber mats for the winter to control the ice, snow and salt.

rgsw · June 2004

The only advertisements by Lexus have been for XM Radio. I have the Lexus/Toyota Receiver for XM Radio installed and it works through the LS430 Nav System just great.

michael_mattox · June 2004

Here is a link to Lexus Elite Dealers around the country...http://www.lexus.com/dealers/eol.html

I am sorry I can't get the darn HyperLink to light up?

ljflx · June 2004

Thanks. It's nice to have sirius in the home and I imagine XM is great also.

Michael - usually with Edmunds you can simply right click and just cut the web address and paste.

michael_mattox · June 2004

Thanks ...Maybe I did a copy and paste rather then a cut and paste and that makes a difference?...I suspect it may be something with my computer..Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't?

If any of you Computer experts have an idea of what I can try ...Please let me know.

ckennedy · June 2004

Okay, I am considering purchasing my brother in-laws 2001 lexus 430 which he leased and includes navagiation. There is roughly 25K miles on it. The buyout is approximately $36k. Is this a fair price? Is this price negotiable? I know the car is slimply one of the best and it is a little over my price range but if it will last a long time I guess it will pay for itself. I have a kid on the way and I am looking for something roomy (deep trunk) and SAFE. Any input would be helpfull.

michael_mattox · June 2004

Kennedy:

These cars are good for several 100,000s of miles...It seems like a great buy to me ...Barely broken in, it will probably be your best car buy ever...You will love the car.

You will love the Nav. system...I have an 01 and would never buy another car without Nav.

P.S. You will probably want to eventually up grade the Nav. system to the 03 (If your brother-in-law hasn't already done so) or get the 04 edition when it comes out this fall...the 03 upgraded the 01 from 900,000 points of interest to over 5 million points of interest...

You can do the up grade yourself, the disk costs about $275

ljflx · June 2004

They can sell the car for significantly more than the buyout and the buyout is usually non-negotiable anyway as it is the foundation of the whole preceeding lease. Remember also that the dealer doesn't care so much as the car is going back to Lexus not him. Now if a three year old LS was not in demand than the buyout would be negotiable but this car has held its residual value at a higher percentage (as much as 5-10% better) than any lux car in its class because of the market demand so the buyout price is plenty good particularly if you know the car was well cared for. See how soon you'll need new tires and brakes before you buy though. The car's probably good for another 200k or more miles and is probably surpassed in build quality by only newer LS430's.

pat · June 2004

You have "country...http://www.lexus.com/dealers/eol.html" - the problem is there is no space between "..." and http so the software is not picking it up as a link. Look at the difference when the only thing I change is to insert a space after the ellipsis:

"country... http://www.lexus.com/dealers/eol.html"

:-)

michael_mattox · June 2004

Thanks Pat.

pat · June 2004

michael_mattox · June 2004

OK what am I missing?

... http://www.lexus.com/dealers/eol.html

lexus ls · June 2004

I was wondering if the 1997 power window switches can be replaced with the power window switches of the 1998 or newer. I would want to do so because I like to ride with the windows open and i hate having to hold down the buttons. The all auto would work great in my car. I think that they might be universal. Maybe i can find a totaled lexus and have them send me the buttons for all four windows. Just need some feed back. Thanks every one

maxhonda99 · June 2004

I doubt the switches from a 98 LS will work on a 97 LS.
The 98 switches are probably totally different due to the auto up/down feature. Also, the 98 LS included a pinch protection feature which probably requires a sensor that your 97 won't have either.

wwest · June 2004

its the controller, ecu, that has the auto-down/anti-pinch logic.

ckennedy · June 2004

Thanks for the info. I have heard nothing but raving remarks about the ls430. I actually overstated the mileage. My brother in law is actually at 19k right now and the lease is up in 10/04 so could even be lower then my previous quote. I will probably take your advice on the upgrade nav. system. My brother in law loves it. I am looking to spend around $30k for a new car but for what's out there for that price is a joke. I just have to get over the idea that I am paying $36k for a 3 year old car. wow times have changed.

ifpsken · June 2004

Take a look at cars.com for nationwide prices on the LS430. I believe you will find that the October residual of $36k looks pretty good, especially because of the very low mileage. My experience on lease buyouts has been good with banks but has not been successful with Lexus financial. Lexus will demand the residual, banks are willing to negotiate more often than not, because they do not want to resell the car at the auction.

barry5 · June 2004

I TOOK MY CAR IN FOR ITS' 40,000 MILE CHECK UP WHICH COST APPROX $350. I LEFT THE CAR AND WENT TO MY OFFICE WHERE I RECEIVED A NOTIFICATION FROM MY DEALER THAT THE BRAKES NEED REPAIR AND THE ROTORS ARE PITTED, I STATED THAT THERE HAS BEEN NO NOISE FROM THE SENSORS AND THAT I ONLY USE THE CAR ON HIGHWAY DRIVING TWICE A WEEK ON A STRAIGHT RUN TO EAST HAMPTON TO NEW YORK CITY AND BACK. HOWEVER IF HE FOUND THE WORK NECESSARY, DO IT.

WHEN I CAME IN TO CLAIM MY CAR THE BILL WAS
$1,888 DOLLARS THAT MEANT I JUST GOT A $1500 BRAKE JOB. WHEN I WENT HOME I CHECKED THE WARRANTY MANUAL AND NOTED THAT THERE WAS NO WARRANTY EXCLUSION FOR THE ROTORS WHICH IMPLIES THAT THE ROTORS ARE COVERED UNDER WARRANTY.

I CALLED LEXUS CUSTOMER ASSISTANCE AND THEY ARE TRYING TO MEDIATE THIS MATTER. I KEEP SAYING READ THE WARRANTY MANUAL. LEXUS INSISTS NOT EVERYTHING THAT IS EXCLUDED IS IN THE MANUAL. I STATED THEN HOW IS ONE TO KNOW. LAST CONVERSATION WAS THEY WILL GET ME THE
" VERBIAGE "
I THINK I HAVE BEEN HAD AND FEEL AWFUL. THE CAR A 2001 LS 430 ULTRA HAS BEEN WONDERFUL, BUT I THINK THERE MAY BE SOMETHING ROTTEN GOING ON HERE. ANY HELP YOU CAN GIVE I WOULD APPRECIATE. THANK YOU.

splogue · June 2004

Brakes and rotors are typically considered items that are used up under normal use, and are therefore not covered by warranty.

I *am* surprised that they didn't give you an estimate before doing the work. That may be covered by your state and local laws. Many of them require the garage to give you an estimate within a certain percentage of the final cost and to get authorization prior to doing the work.

I'd also ask them why they didn't turn the rotors (refinish them) instead of replacing them altogether, which is probably what they did given the cost.

I think you did the right thing calling Lexus for mediation.

Sean

ljflx · June 2004

What Lexus dealer performed the service. if it is Rallye in Glen Cove or Lexus of Manhattan they are always very concerned about their relationship with Lexus HQ. I've never needed anything but normal maintenance on my cars but the one time that my tires were wearing badly last year Ray Catena called me with the news I needed new tires and quoted an all in price. I told them no thanks and took care of it myself. It's just plain business curtesy to quote the price before doing the work even if it is not the rule. I'm not sure of NY but in NJ you either sign an upfront estimate or have to agree to the price verbally before the work is done. I would think NY is the same as it is usually the benchmark for consumer buisness law and regs in the tri-state area. Plus I thought a lot of new rules were put in place because of the Sears problems uncovered a few years back.

michael_mattox · June 2004

ckennedy:

You are actually paying $36K for a $60,000+ car. That Lexus is every bit as good as the day your Brother-in-law leased it.

michael_mattox · June 2004

Barry:

I would think that if you have brought your car in for the regular service checks then the dealer is at least partially at fault for not noticing the brake ware that proceeded the roter problem. If the Brakes did not need replacing then it seems there is some other problem maybe a manufacture problem that caused the pitting....

Perhaps someone that is a lot more knowledgable then I can jump in about this...Is it normal ware if the rotors are pitted but the breaks are OK?

feverhart · June 2004

Yes, It's always good to be quoted a price for whatever work you have done. I recently took my (wife's) '01 LS 430 for the 40k checkup with price quoted for that service. Then they wanted to replace the air conditioner filter. I was quoted $110 for this service. Since I was in a hurry I elected to schedule at a later date. In checking it out, I subsequently bought a filter for $30 and it took almost 5 minutes for me to install it. That 80 bucks saved can almost pay for 3 additional filters.

As to brakes, when I had my '90 LS, it needed brakes at 40k (had a sticking sliding pin) The price that Midas quoted was much less than the Lexus dealer and it included life-time warranty. I went with Midas and subsequently got two more brake replacements with no additional charge before I sold the car with 130k miles. Be warned, however, there are Midas dealers and there are Midas dealers; not all are of the same calibre.

It's easy to afford a Lexus or Lexi and keep them in tip top shape without breaking the bank.

oac · June 2004

I have had a similar unfortunate episode, except that mine ended happily. At my 60K mile service ($600-ish) I was informed that my car needed additional XXX more work than I had originally scheduled for an additional $1500. I simply asked to have a second opinion from another Lexus dealer, wherein it was confirmed that my car did NOT need the additional work. Suffice to say, that was the last time I took my car to that Lex dealership.

You are doing the right thing by contacting Lexus Customer Service. There is no way you should have been charged for such a huge cost especially since there was no signed authorization of a quote/estimate of work to be performed from you. You may have given a verbal assent to have the work done, but they needed to tell you what it would cost. That is NOT a sign of a good dealership. If I were you, I'd keep at Lexus corporate to make sure they provide you a refund, in full or in part. Don't relent, keep up the pressure, and if necessary, threaten with legal action.

michael_mattox · June 2004

You might also click on post 5925 to 1) see if your dealer is a Lexus Elite dealer and 2) see if there is another Lexus Elite Dealer in your area.

I have to make a 200 mile round trip into the big city to see a Lexus dealer but You do it so infrequently it is worth the trip.

milsuperdoc · June 2004

Which area dealer was this? Care to share?

barry5 · June 2004

DEAR RESPONDERS:

     THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH FOR YOUR RESPONSES, THEY HAVE BEEN HELPFUL AND UPLIFTING.

     THE DEALER IS LEXUS OF MANHATTAN. THEY HAVE BEEN MY SERVICE AGENT SINCE I BOUGHT THE CAR. THEY HAVE BEEN IN THE PAST MODERATE AND RELIABLE. I AM QUITE DISAPPOINTED. THEY DID REDUCE THE BILL BY $350 BUT I STILL HAD A
$1500 BRAKE JOB. I ASKED WHY THEN DID NOT GRIND THE ROTORS? THERE RESPONSE WAS THEY WERE TO FAR GONE?

   THIS MEDIATION EFFORT IS SLOW AND WITH PEOPLE WHO ARE NOT TECHNICALLY FLUENT. THE PROCESS IS SLOW. I SUSPECT THAT OUTCOME WILL CAUSE LITIGATION AND HAVE ALREADY CONSULTED MY ATTORNEYS [YES PLURAL]. THEY SEIZED ON WHAT LEXUS MEDIATION HAD SAID "THAT ALL THINGS THAT ARE EXEMPT FROM WARRANTY ARE NOT DESCRIBED IN THE WARRANTY MANUAL " THERE ARE OTHER EXEMPTIONS AT DIFFERENT MILEAGES ALSO NOT IN THE MANUAL.

   LEXUS IS INDEED A WONDERFUL AUTOMOBILE AND PERHAPS THIS IS AN ABBERATION BUT I MUST ADMIT THE ICON IMAGE HAS BEEN SHAKEN.

   AGAIN, THANK YOU AND I SHALL KEEP YOU INFORMED.

gteach26 · June 2004

Remember in forum-land, ALL CAPS = SHOUTING!!!

barry5, regardless of what is in the manual or not, I would think your dealership HAS to call you if such a big job is going to be done.

At least in my experience with Lexus (brake job at 25K miles on an RX300) they called me as soon as they knew what they had to do and gave me the price quote over the phone ($250) so that I could approve it.

They didn't even do that? It seems like an open and shut "case" to me.

Good luck.

maxhonda99 · June 2004

You got screwed big time by the dealer. Although, I will say they have no reason to cover your rotors under warranty. Why? It clearly states somewhere in there that normal wear and tear items are not covered. And I believe it says brake pads/rotors are only covered for 1yr/12K miles from date of purchase. I believe all/most warranties are the same. But $1,500 just for front brakes is ridiculous. The most it should cost it should cost is about $400. Each rotor runs about $100-$125, pads are about $75, and about a hour to hour and a half labor if just installing new rotors.

michael_mattox · June 2004

Berry:

If it is not too late be sure to get the old rotor and brake pads.

Note: Your dealer is not on the Lexus Elite list...There are 7 other NY dealers who are Lexus Elite.

Does NY law require that they give you a written estimate of the repair cost?...It is required in my state.

I still question why the Dealer didn't note the brake usage in their regular maintance..You might check your service slips and see if they checked your brakes and your maintance manual to see if that is a scheduled maintance item that they should have taken care of.

Good luck...It seems to me you have a lot of ammo to throw at them.

barry5 · June 2004

DEAR MAXHONDA 99.

     THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT. I HAVE STUDIED THE MANUAL AND CAN FIND NO REFERENCE TO ROTORS NOT BEING COVERED. YOU ANSWERED A CRUCIAL QUESTION THE COST OF THE ROTORS AND TIME. LETS BE CONSERVATIVE 4 ROTORS@100= $400 LABOR 1.5 HOURS $120 WHICH EQUALS $520. BY YOUR CALCULATION 4 BRAKE PADS COST ME CLOSE TO $900, I THINK THAT IS ALSO EXCESSIVE.

    AGAIN IF YOU COME ACROSS THE REFERENCE CONCERNING THE ROTORS PLEASE LET ME KNOW AND THANK YOU AGAIN FOR INFORMING ME OF THE APPROXIMATE COSTS.

    CAVEAT EMPTOR..BUT ALSO LET THE DEALERSHIP BEWARE.

sv7887 · June 2004

Hi Barry,
I too, find this very strange. It seems quite odd that a Lexus would need replacement of the rotors so early. I had a similar problem with the lexus dealer about 6 yrs ago. However, once I complained, they immediately refunded my money. The Rotors for an older LS400 are $105, and $162(Rear) Those prices are from Irontoad.com, and I'm sure the prices for a newer LS430 are higher. Also the dealer will probably charge more to begin with.

While on the topic of brakes..How long are Rotors supposed to last? Also, is there any reason to resurface the rotor everytime the brake pads are changed? When I went to Midas they were adamant about doing this everytime the pads were changed. Unless there were visible surface defects, I've never allowed them to do it..Anyone know the real story?

SV

pat · June 2004

Hi Barry,

I'm really sorry this has happened to you.

I think the point is that warranties describe what they cover. Anything they don't mention is not covered. And generally speaking, items that fail due to normal wear and tear are not covered.

There should be a statement somewhere that tells you that much.

Brakes and rotors are considered items that are susceptible to normal wear and tear - so I think folks here are telling you the claim that these things are not under warranty is valid.

But the folks here are also telling you that the amount of money you were charged under the circumstances you describe is outrageous, and that they think you have an extremely legitimate complaint that they think should be rectified, and indeed will have to be rectified in some manner.

But hey, I got to say one thing here -- please TAKE OFF YOUR CAPS KEY! :-)

It looks like you are yelling at us and it makes your posts very difficult to read.

Keep us posted on how things go.

ljflx · June 2004

Michael mattox pointed out that Lexus of Manhattan is not a Lexus Elite dealership and this is probably one of the reasons you have a problem. My business partner got his first car at Lexus of Manhattan and had always been satisfied with them. But he got his 2001 from massachusetts because the LS430's were hard to get for a while in 2001. There is no reason for price gouging but I'll bet they just thought you were pushing this cost off to a business and wouldn't gripe about it. I also wonder how much repair and maintenance work they get given their Manhattan location. If I were you I'd take this up with Lexus as you are doing and the better business bureau. If you weren't given an estimate beforehand or if an estimate had a wide range of price possibility you will have a strong case with the better business bureau. The problem with attacking this legally is that the law bill will make the repair bill look cheap. I would also call one of the elite dealerships in NY or nearby NJ and find out what the rotor work would cost with them. If it is markedly lower you will also have a much stronger case all around - including with Lexus HQ. Probably the best place to start is Bay Ridge Lexus as they are quite close in proximity to Lexus of Manhattan and in the same city of course. I don't remember if they were an elite dealer though.

Good luck and keep us posted (in small letters though).

wwest · June 2004

I always do my brakes myself, generally only pads, ~$100 front, lubs the sliders and go about my way. The only time I turn the rotors is if I get vibration during braking.

My 92LS, w/94k miles has had the front rotors turned once.

The only other valid reason for turning rotors IMMHO is if the pads got worn down to metal on metal.

anthonyp · June 2004

Unfortunately Lexis is not what it once was as far as service goes..When my breaks had a problem four or so years ago, they replaced everything with no charge and gladly...I must admit they are expensive for routine things,but have never taken advantage of me as they have you with more than a thousand dollars for your breaks..I can`t believe that the home office won`t do something for you. Maybe another try would be worthwhile..Tony

michael_mattox · June 2004

Bay Ridge is listed as Lexus Elite.

maxhonda99 · June 2004

Barry5,

Well, I don't have a LS400 but my father in law has a 2000 LS400. I'll take a look at his manual the next time I'm there or he's at my place. I help him out all the time with his cars maintanance because if I didn't he would get robbed blind for stuff like tires & brakes.
He just replaced the front brakes on his LS400 for the first time @52K miles, I sent him to a local shop that resurfaced the rotors and installed new front Lexus pads for $140. His Lexus dealer quoted him about $350 for the same work.

vcheng · June 2004

If a car is left for considerable periods of time in a humid area (close to the sea for example), the rotors will rust pretty quickly and thus wear far more during the first few miles of driving again. (Rust will appear within 24 hours even in relatively good conditions, take a look yourselves.) In the north, road salt takes its toll as well. Thus the wear and tears on rotors on two cars with 50k miles will be far greater on one car that is used only on weekends vs one used every day, everything else being equal.

I think the issue is more whether Barry5 was given an estimate before he approved the work, rather than trying to assess the need, since there are too many caveats and variables there.

ifpsken · June 2004

Which San Diego dealer took care of your CBEST change to allow door lock to occur at 12mph? I had my LS430 in today for the 5k service and the tech showed me the options which were available and the 12mph option was not listed. His explanation was that Lexus may have changed (increased) options available on the newer manufactured LS, mine was mfg'd 12/03.

I would like to call your San Diego dealer and ask if the date of manufacture limits the various options available.

Thanks, Ken

sandiegotom · June 2004

My dealer is Lexus of Carlsbad. Frankly, I think that what really happened in regard to the CBEST door locking options was that I called Lexus USA in Torrance about the problem, and they called the dealer and told them how to operate the CBEST computer that does the changes. I got a 'bafflegarb' explanation from the dealer service department about a "new" computer program "just" received from Lexus that allowed them to delve down an additional level to see more setting options. Lexus Torrance called me a few days later to see if I was happy (I was), but danced around about the fix involved, saying only that they had "discussed" the tech issues with the dealer service department. I don't think it's a date of manufacture issue. Hope this helps...

By the way, I probably should change my name to VistaTom since I bagged it from San Diego a couple of years ago...too much Chargers ticket guarantee, Padres stadium, employee pension fund, city council ethics, traffic problems, etc. etc. ...

chicagoed · June 2004

Tom, are you saying that the dealer did NOT get a new or updated service device or tool to communicate with the car's computer, one that had some features that were lacking from the older one? And that all that happened was that some expert at Lexus USA told the dealer how to do it with the existing service tool?

sandiegotom · June 2004

ChicagoEd:

I do NOT know what happened at the dealer. They told me that they had received an update...I suspect that they were informed on how to better use the CBEST device. At any rate, it works...now...

jbianco12 · June 2004

Within the next couple weeks I'll be bringing my 02 in for the 30,000 mile service. Does anyone recall how much this service usually costs? I want to be a bit more informed on what to expect given all the recent messages about people being over charged and/or over serviced at some dealers. Many thanks to all...

chicagoed · June 2004

My dealer's price list for this is $530. When I get there I will give it a lot of thought before I do it, if I do it.

Lexus LS 400/LS 430

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