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Volvo S60

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Comments

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    i suggest trying carsdirect. I've never used them for a purchase, personally, but often use them as a starting point for negotiations with the local dealer.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    Was the X3 part of those numbers? And, if so, was the X3 out in full force last June?

    I think comparing a manufacturers sales when they've introduced a new model to another manufacturer who is selling the same thing as the previous couple of years is a bit misleading.

    I don't see why you wouldn't be able to post a link to sales numbers right here in townhall. unless its to another message board, its fine.

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    Agreed,
    It's an excitement of the discussion that drives people to the keyboard, isn't it?

    And with that,
    The July stats were out just yesterday. I think, Volvo is fine with +5.6% for the month and +2.8% for the YTD.

    Also, S40 does very well (Zoom-zoom?).

    Another interesting figure - it seems that Volvo has gotten a "dynamic duo" in the SUV segment. XC70 does exceptionally well last 2-3 month.
    I, personnaly, contribute it to the success of the XC90.

    XC70 now is perceived as an "economy" alternative to the pretty hot, but expensive XC90, and not as a station wagon with some additional body covers.

    Do you think it make sense?
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    Can I suggest a different approach?

    If you like to travel, and your next vacation is (can be) due in 3-4 month - go with the OSD (overseas delivery).

    You get 10% discount without any hassles, plus 2 round trip tickets to Europe, plus one night free in Gothenburg, plus ability to drive your own car, and therefore - save onn rental - will bring your net saving to the very nice figure, very likely over the $7000.

    Also, you have much wider choice of the a la cart options.

    I just came back from the 3 weeks European vacation. My net savings were (for the XC90)

     - around $4300 savings from the MSRP (I have loaded my car with the features)
     - $2350 - for two tickets
     - $135 - one night in SAS Radisson in Gothenburg (Volvo corporate rate)
     - and at least $4000 in car rental (the only comparable rental SUV that I can get in Germany and return in France was LR Discovery for $225 per day - not including insurance).

    So, by all means, well over $10,000 or about 25% off MSRP.

    The only downside of it is - I have started an order in February (so could do it in April, but wanted to be on a safe side) and will get my car first week of September.

    But we drove it for 2600 miles in Europe and loved every mile of it.
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    I think, we can. At least, I've done it in the past

    Here is a one for Volvo

    Sales Report:

    http://www.volvocars-pr.com/index.asp?par=company&pag=sales&a- mp;lang=1&flash=0&year=2004&month=7
  • s6025ts6025t Member Posts: 23
    Lev - Looks like the data is pretty messed up on that report. Here is Ford's - http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/- www/story/07-01-2004/0002203655&EDATE=
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    Why do you think so? The June numbers for Volvo are exactly the same in both reports.

    Volvo did much better in July, and Ford's web site does not have July's figures yet.
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    I would like to take a look to the stats you have.

    Bellow, is a quote from the BMW Group official web site.

    "Sales of the BMW brand rose by almost 20% in June to 97,865 automobiles (prev.yr.: 81,730). Up to and including June almost half a million BMW cars left the dealerships. This is an increase of 8.9% to 495,496 units (prev.yr.: 454,973). 33,275 of the new BMW X3 have already been sold. 10,575 BMW 6 Series models have also been sold, made up of 6,916 coupés and 3,659 convertibles. The BMW Z4 continued to defend its worldwide leadership of the premium roadster segment in the first six months of 2004. With 23,374 automobiles sold, the car was once again able to exceed last year's levels by 3.4% (prev.yr.: 22,596). 113,900 vehicles in the BMW 5 Series have already been sold (plus 50.6%/prev.yr.: 75,625); the figure for the BMW X5 is 48,377 (plus 2.9%/prev.yr.: 47,033) and for the BMW 7 Series 23,674 (minus 14.2%/prev.yr.: 27,590). The highest selling model in the product range, the BMW 3 Series, was also able to maintain an above-average level in the seventh year of its life cycle, with sales of 241,904 units in the first half-year of 2004 (minus 13.4%/prev.yr.: 279,444). "

    I do not see any "whopping" increases here.

    Exact same story as Volvo - success of the new models (X3 and 5), decline of the "old models" - 7 and 3, and steady sale in the SUV market +2.9 for the X5 (versus +2.1 for XC90).
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    Not at all,
    Of course XC90 is a best seller. This year Volvo XC90 hugely outsold BMW X5.

    Volvo has sold over 76K units just in North America, and I believe close or over 100K worldwide by July 1, while BMW has sold only 48K X5 worldwide.

    Huge difference, isn't it?
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    I would like to apologizes for non-intentional mistake I made in my posting.
    While XC90 did outsell the X5 in US, the BMW sells more X5 worldwide, because they produce more of them.
    It seems that with the almost 50% increase in the worldwide sales for the XC90 by July 1, 2004 versus 32K sold in6 month of 2003, Xc90 worldwide is at the same level as X5, but I could not find exact numbers from Volvo.
  • junkitjunkit Member Posts: 3
    Hi!
    I need to know how does the OverSea Delivery process go...I need deep details.
    I've read that you have to put down a $2,000 deposit, they told me that it's for making sure that i'm buying the car....but if i'm already financing the car, i'm sure I want the car. You know...in my own opinion..the free trip to Sweden and one night in Sweden, is a joke. The $2,000 deposit is just to cover the cost of the airplane tickets and the hotel. But still, I don't know much about this OSD. Really, how cheap is it to buy it oversea.

    Yesterday, I went to a Volvo dealer in Jamaica, NY, I ask them about Oversea Delivery Program(to get more info on it)...the sales man thought I was gonna buy the car and export out of the country...:-D.

    Again...I would like to know more details..Step by Step.

    Thank you.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    It's not that hard, you spec out your car.
    The prices are set by Volvo Overseas. Typically you get a price that is 8-10% off US MSRP.
    They need about 3 months to build you a car to suit, otherwise they do maintain a pool of cars if you need one sooner. You get the airfare and hotel stay in Sweden. The deposit goes with the order. 30 days prior to your arrival in Sweden the balance is due.
    15 days of insurance and registration is included with your price. You can purchase up to 6 months of insurance and registration if you like.
    Once you drop the car off at the port and fly home your car will take anywhere fom 1-2.5 months to reach your dealer in the US.

    Now, it is not always cheapest to buy the car overseas. In many cases, if price is your sole consideration the US incentives are better. These incentives can't be used on Overseas cars.
    Most everyone who takes advantage of the program do so because they want the experience, and want a vacation.
  • junkitjunkit Member Posts: 3
    It's true, that the price in US is much better. Yesterday I went to that dealer in Jamica...they were willing to take off $5,000 for the S60 2.5T AWD that include the premium package. But still, I want to fish around for any lower price...maybe I should go to NJ...there could be lower.

    But thanks for the info.
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    Nicely put, Max,

    One question:

    How does the OSD price for the 2005 S40/V50 compare to the US?
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    TDS base price for an S40 2.4i $21,610
    US Base $21900 + 685 freight.

    Not much difference.
  • s60 2.4s60 2.4 Member Posts: 24
    As I was looking at Depreciation of a 5 year ownership of my 2004 2.4 I was truly amazed to see how much I will lose. I am very pleased to be a new Volvo owner and would not drive anything else, but it amazed me to see that a 2004 Chevrolet Impala LS had a lesser deprecation value then my Volvo. Even though I considered the Impala LS it amazes me to see the (tco) of the 2.4.
  • 84v24084v240 Member Posts: 1
    I've been reading all these posts that claim that Volvo's (some or all?) lack reliability. I find this hard to believe after seeing all these old Volvos out there that are still running fine. I don't see many Toyota's, Honda's, or Nissan's from the early '80's or late 70's still running around like I do Volvo's... Especially after comparing the number of Volvo's that are actually sold in the US to the numbers of Nissans, Hondas, etc... I believe reliability is closely linked with durability. If a Volvo is still running after 400,000 miles and 15-20 years, how can we not say it's reliable? It's obviously durable... So, what are the reliability concerns people are having these days? ( I have four Volvos with well over 100,000 miles each and never had a reliability concern)
  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    I'll disagree. Reliability and durability are not related. Reliability is how often things break - durability is how long the entire thing will last. IMHO, poeple associate reliability with maintenance and repair costs. Sitting in my office parking lot is an early 90's Volvo 940 wagon with over 300K miles on it. It has been a durable vehicle but things were constantly breaking on it from day 1. It never left anyone stranded but little nagging things like power seat switches that were maybe used twice per month should not break.

    Picking it up one time for my boss from the dealer, the bill was over $2,000. The service advisor said that was very common on older Volvos as their owners loved them and felt they were worth spending that kind of money on. As long as you are willing to pay to ensure reliability, most vehicles will have durability.
  • cmnottcmnott Member Posts: 200
    ...that they will sink in ridiculous amounts to keep them? It really is a phenomenon that you don't typically see with other manufacturers. What is it about Volvos and their owners? It is almost security blanket-like in terms of keeping their Volvo.

    My 2002 T5 has been excellent aside from a niggling brake problem with the rears, otherwise it is as tight as the day I picked it up. i typically do not get the same car after my lease is up, but this is the first time in my whole driving career (16 years) that I do not fidget in my seat. i don't know if I can leave Volvos just for their seats! That is why an S60R is in my cards...
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    I am glad that this thread has resurface again.

    Yes, the reliability and durability are two different things and are driven by the different intrinsic characteristics.

    However, only the Volvo owners can really understand what does the durability mean.

    What makes Volvo a phenomenon is the choices that company makes in the design. The body structure is very solid, the suspension is built to last, the engines (with the known exceptions of some turbo models)will outlast the end of the world.

    10-15 old Volvo just drives like a tank, it provides, an very justifiable so, a strong sense of safety and a piece of mind.

    And because of some reasonable conservatism in the exterior design, it does not look like a piece of ancient history, because it's already 5 body styles behind.

    We, Volvo owner, are well aware that Volvo has an average reliability, but the average level today is high enough to provide a reasonably trouble less ownership, which, in combination with the rather upscale service (at least in some parts of the LA suburbs), ensures pretty much that high level of brand loyalty and retention, that surprises many of the non-Volvo drivers.

    It gets even better now, when Volvo is a fun to drive.

    We own three Volvo - 1990 740 - as solid as the car could be after 15 years and 150K miles, and by the way - pretty much all the little gadgets works, and I never have a second thought when my 16 years old daughter is out there on a road.

    2000 S80 - great cruiser, good looker, we have a lot of fun on our family trips, and I like my comfortable short business trips so much, that never use a company car (Chevy Cavalier), even if I can. DSTC is fantastic, I have stopped using snow chains on my trips to the ski resorts ever since we bought an S80.

    And we just bought an XC90 through OSD. We spent 21 day and 2600 miles on the European roads.
    It's a great vehicle - versatile, roomy, comfortable, as safe as it could be, fun to drive,
    and with the 7 seats (or huge cargo space with 5), AWD, high clearance and even more sophisticated stability system than S80, can accomodate all the demands of our life style.

    Now,
    I want to disagree with one of the statements

    "As long as you are willing to pay to ensure reliability, most vehicles will have durability"

    It's not true at all. No matter how much money you will put to ensure that all the components are working - and that is reliability, if the entire body structure of the vehicle is "sagging" or deforming, and the major components like engine, transmission, non-consumable parts of the suspension are deteriorating - your car looks like a junk. Being a first generation immigrant from the former Soviet Union, and driving a whole bunch of old Japanese cars (though extremely reliable when they are new), i think I have enough of personal experience to support my opinion. The mass production Japanese car is built as a consumable unit. It's designed to last some certain time, and then all the major components will reach their predetermined life span and basically "give-up".

    The upscale Japanese one, especially Lexus, which is built on rather more durable Toyota platform, and with a bigger investment into the durabilty of major components, is a different story. But than, they are more or just about as expensive as any Volvo.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    The seats in Volvos are the best that I have experienced. With the back problems that I have, the seats are key for me.
  • s6025ts6025t Member Posts: 23
    Lev, Here are the BMW stats "shattering" US sales
    records. http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=18642
  • s6025ts6025t Member Posts: 23
    I was reading an auto rag at the doctor's office the other day. It happened to have a list of reported problems per 1000 cars sold. I just about choked... Volvo was close to the very bottom (worst).
  • karrmankarrman Member Posts: 3
    I wonder what magazine that was?

    My Volvo is 7 months old and has had no problems at this point.
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    Yes, it's the well known fact - Volvo is average in it's reliability ratings. Some sources will put it higher and some - lower.

    And your point is...

    I do not think that anybody here argues that Volvo has a relatively high reliability. The point, at least for me, was that it's reliability is high enough - but that is subjective, and all we can do is just exchange our stories and let other people to decide for them self.

    I am perfectly happy with the reliability of my two cars that were in commission for 15 and 4 years, and have no worries about my new XC90.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    The only problem that I have had with my S60AWD in 27 months of ownership was a slowly leaking radiator. The radiator was replaced under warranty at the 15,000 mile service interval; I was not stranded by the leak. I'm not quite sure of the definition of "relatively high reliability"; I don't plan on deserting Volvo - there are too many good things about the brand and frankly, I am not upset over the radiator leak. Maybe this is the definition of high enough....
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    Relative to the brands that lead in the reliability department. I do not think we need to argue that the new Toyotas are more reliable (have less defects per 1000) than the new Volvos.

    And I am with you, the Volvo's reliability is high enough for me. I am staying (and going to stay) with Volvo.
  • s60 2.4s60 2.4 Member Posts: 24
    I am owner of a 2004 2.4 base. I was wondering if it is possible to upgrade to 7.5 by 17 TETHYS. Currently, I have the 6.5 by 15 MUSCA'S. Went to the parts department today and was advised that the will not fit the 2.4 as they do not have enough room to turn. Just confused at the moment as the TETHYS are an option with the sport package of the 2.5T. If I can go with the TETHYS will it effect my over all performance and or economy on my car. Many Thanks!!!!!
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Administrator Posts: 11,146
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  • jaramabeigejaramabeige Member Posts: 31
    Anyone know anything about the possibility of an R version of the new V50 wagon? Thanks.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    Yes it can put the 17"s on a 2.4.
    You may need to change the steering stops though.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Member Posts: 5,238
    No plans for a V50R at this time.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    And make sure the tire's circumference that you are replacing the original tires with is the same as what was replaced. Data on circumference of different tires is published by Tirerack. Otherwise, you will have speedometer (and odometer) error to contend with.
  • sirdarbysirdarby Member Posts: 20
    Today I am picking up a silver, 95 960 with 78,000 miles on it and not a scratch. A salesman I know who has sold me several cars in the past, called me and said it was just traded yesterday. I am purchasing it for $5,000. The original owner traded it for an Avalon.

    I took it to the Volvo dealer and had the records pulled. There were nine pages of computerized services codes. All maintenance was done as scheduled. Brakes were recently done. All I could tell was the vinyl on the top door panels was puckered and
    coming apart on the driver's side.

    Any advice would be helpful.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    I think you are on the wrong thread - this is for S60 models.
  • benjaminsbenjamins Member Posts: 56
    "It is poor on all Volvo"

    Not true if you go back. The rear drive Volvos, cars like the s90 have superb turning circles. Only 32 feet. I think the 850 and s60 was below 35 feet as well. It's the P2 Volvos with the terrible turning circles.
  • avolvofanavolvofan Member Posts: 358
    My memory of the turning circle on the 850 Turbo that I owned was in the range of 34 feet curb-to-curb. The S60's turning circle is 39 feet curb-to-curb.
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    I would suggest to review the facts before someone complains. As a matter of fact Volvo has and always had very respectful turning diameter, consider the overall dimensions and design.

    Here is some numbers to compare:

    in the RWD times:

    Model Front track Width Turning diameter
    1990 240 56 67 32
    1990 740 57 69 32
    1990 BMW5 58 69 36

    in the FWD arena:

    2005 S80 62 72 39
    2005 XC90 64 74 39
    2004 S40 58 67 34
    2005 S40 60 70 35
    2005 Acura TL 62 72 39
    2005 LexusES330 61 71 37
    2005 SAAB 9-5 60 70 37
     

    It clearly shows that Volvo is right there with others or even better.

    Modern RWD are right there too.

    2005 BMW5 61 72 38
    2005 MB E 61 71 37.5

    Cars just got wider over the years and ride on bigger tyres.

    My conclusion - the turning radius for the P2 platform is not bad at all, right along the best in a class.

    P.S. All the numbers are from the MSN Auto specs.
  • mrkbbd1mrkbbd1 Member Posts: 7
    I have it narrowed down to three cars, a volvo s60r manual, bmw m3 convert. SMG, and the Mercedes c55 Amg. What do you suggest, its a very difficult decision for me.
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    life's rought, ain't it?

    How bout a used S60 T5 and a couple years of college tuition?

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • robr2robr2 Member Posts: 8,805
    Yeah - I was holding my tongue and trying not to go down that road!!
  • cmnottcmnott Member Posts: 200
    First of all, be careful!

    Unique would be the Volvo. Fact is you can get in serious trouble with all three...are you sure you want or can handle a car THAT fast already?
  • lev_berkovichlev_berkovich Member Posts: 858
    So did I...

    And I would want to hear from his parents...
  • qbrozenqbrozen Member Posts: 32,891
    yeah. sorry. i thought about deleting my post right after i wrote it, but the evil side of me refused. i don't want to see it get too personal, so I gotta say I DON'T want to hear from his parents. I do have to point out, though, as a tip to anyone else who may be turning 16 and have the need to post a similar question: don't announce the details! Just say "hey, i'm considering these 4 cars. which one is best?" Because giving details about your personal situation just opens the floodgates to annoying and unwelcome comments from people like me. :)

    '11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S

  • s60 2.4s60 2.4 Member Posts: 24
    Agreed….....be careful! If I had the liberty I would go with the R personally. It is truly a one of a kind auto and in a class of it’s own. All of these autos are ready for the track.
  • markcincinnatimarkcincinnati Member Posts: 5,343
    If this is for real, I can tell you that of the choices you have put forth, and assuming that this acquisition is a present to you -- the Volvo S60R is the only car that seems to combine performance and prudence -- it is AWD and that could save your hide.

    All these cars, frankly, would NOT be my choice to give to a 16 year old. If this would not offend anyone, I would suggest an S40 T5 AWD -- new; or an Audi A4 1.8T ultra sport.

    If you really want to blow your mind and your parent's money try the Audi S4.

    But, to repeat, of your "short list" the Volvo S60R would be the best choice. Another thing, it will be the kind of car that you will not see yourself "coming and going." You'll have a bit more individuality with the Volvo S60R that is.
  • s60 2.4s60 2.4 Member Posts: 24
    Currently I have about 500 miles on my 2004 2.4. I have been doing a lot of highway driving and have been averaging ~18-23 mpg at 55mph. I understand that it will improve by 3K on the car. Is this normal? Just want to make sure nothing is wrong. Many Thanks!!!! p.s. running 93 as Volvo Recommends
  • s60 2.4s60 2.4 Member Posts: 24
    Sorry forget to add in the city ~10-15mpg speeds 25-30mph stop and go.
    Thanks again!
  • mmmm8mmmm8 Member Posts: 26
    Just came back from Brussels, Belgium for the MY05 S60R F1 OSD. Very lucky to be one of the 15 owners to take delivery of the first 15 MY05 model. The trips was great. I bought along my family. Unfortunately, we were sick. But people were friendly and helpful especially Volvo staffs and others owners. The car is great. We took delivery of the car in Sweden. Took a ferry to Germany. Drove the S60R through the autobahn to Belgium. At one point, I was driving 120mph. :)
    Saw the formula one racing. Volvo treated us like a king. Thanks to everybody. Great memories and friendship. Now, can't wait for the car to come back.
  • dang32dang32 Member Posts: 8
    Having found posts like these helpful in my research, I decided to put my 2 cents in.

    Bought my 2004 s60 2.4 Titanium Gray/Black Lthr 2 mos ago. Traded in a 2002 Passat, before that drove Japanese junk.

    Having recently undergone back surgery, seat comfort was a high priority and the Volvo doesn't disappoint. The seats are excellent.

    I'm fortunate to live in CA as I got the special CA package which includes sports seats, 17" wheels, fog lights, and metal interior trim like on the T5. I hated the fake wood on the 2.5T's and luxury package 2.4's. The car looks awesome, I need to tint the windows though.

    Though I miss the power and better steering feel on my Passat, the Volvo is way smoother in the way it rides and more quiet.

    So far no problems and the car keeps growing on me, I'm starting to understand this Volvo loyalty thing and perhaps this is the start of a long relationship with this Co.

    However, I'm a little worried about Ford's influence. I'm glad I was able to get the last of the completely designed by Volvo models. I'm interested to see how the new s40 works out as it's the first Volvo designed with a shared platform.
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