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'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
I think comparing a manufacturers sales when they've introduced a new model to another manufacturer who is selling the same thing as the previous couple of years is a bit misleading.
I don't see why you wouldn't be able to post a link to sales numbers right here in townhall. unless its to another message board, its fine.
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
It's an excitement of the discussion that drives people to the keyboard, isn't it?
And with that,
The July stats were out just yesterday. I think, Volvo is fine with +5.6% for the month and +2.8% for the YTD.
Also, S40 does very well (Zoom-zoom?).
Another interesting figure - it seems that Volvo has gotten a "dynamic duo" in the SUV segment. XC70 does exceptionally well last 2-3 month.
I, personnaly, contribute it to the success of the XC90.
XC70 now is perceived as an "economy" alternative to the pretty hot, but expensive XC90, and not as a station wagon with some additional body covers.
Do you think it make sense?
If you like to travel, and your next vacation is (can be) due in 3-4 month - go with the OSD (overseas delivery).
You get 10% discount without any hassles, plus 2 round trip tickets to Europe, plus one night free in Gothenburg, plus ability to drive your own car, and therefore - save onn rental - will bring your net saving to the very nice figure, very likely over the $7000.
Also, you have much wider choice of the a la cart options.
I just came back from the 3 weeks European vacation. My net savings were (for the XC90)
- around $4300 savings from the MSRP (I have loaded my car with the features)
- $2350 - for two tickets
- $135 - one night in SAS Radisson in Gothenburg (Volvo corporate rate)
- and at least $4000 in car rental (the only comparable rental SUV that I can get in Germany and return in France was LR Discovery for $225 per day - not including insurance).
So, by all means, well over $10,000 or about 25% off MSRP.
The only downside of it is - I have started an order in February (so could do it in April, but wanted to be on a safe side) and will get my car first week of September.
But we drove it for 2600 miles in Europe and loved every mile of it.
Here is a one for Volvo
Sales Report:
http://www.volvocars-pr.com/index.asp?par=company&pag=sales&a- mp;lang=1&flash=0&year=2004&month=7
Volvo did much better in July, and Ford's web site does not have July's figures yet.
Bellow, is a quote from the BMW Group official web site.
"Sales of the BMW brand rose by almost 20% in June to 97,865 automobiles (prev.yr.: 81,730). Up to and including June almost half a million BMW cars left the dealerships. This is an increase of 8.9% to 495,496 units (prev.yr.: 454,973). 33,275 of the new BMW X3 have already been sold. 10,575 BMW 6 Series models have also been sold, made up of 6,916 coupés and 3,659 convertibles. The BMW Z4 continued to defend its worldwide leadership of the premium roadster segment in the first six months of 2004. With 23,374 automobiles sold, the car was once again able to exceed last year's levels by 3.4% (prev.yr.: 22,596). 113,900 vehicles in the BMW 5 Series have already been sold (plus 50.6%/prev.yr.: 75,625); the figure for the BMW X5 is 48,377 (plus 2.9%/prev.yr.: 47,033) and for the BMW 7 Series 23,674 (minus 14.2%/prev.yr.: 27,590). The highest selling model in the product range, the BMW 3 Series, was also able to maintain an above-average level in the seventh year of its life cycle, with sales of 241,904 units in the first half-year of 2004 (minus 13.4%/prev.yr.: 279,444). "
I do not see any "whopping" increases here.
Exact same story as Volvo - success of the new models (X3 and 5), decline of the "old models" - 7 and 3, and steady sale in the SUV market +2.9 for the X5 (versus +2.1 for XC90).
Of course XC90 is a best seller. This year Volvo XC90 hugely outsold BMW X5.
Volvo has sold over 76K units just in North America, and I believe close or over 100K worldwide by July 1, while BMW has sold only 48K X5 worldwide.
Huge difference, isn't it?
While XC90 did outsell the X5 in US, the BMW sells more X5 worldwide, because they produce more of them.
It seems that with the almost 50% increase in the worldwide sales for the XC90 by July 1, 2004 versus 32K sold in6 month of 2003, Xc90 worldwide is at the same level as X5, but I could not find exact numbers from Volvo.
I need to know how does the OverSea Delivery process go...I need deep details.
I've read that you have to put down a $2,000 deposit, they told me that it's for making sure that i'm buying the car....but if i'm already financing the car, i'm sure I want the car. You know...in my own opinion..the free trip to Sweden and one night in Sweden, is a joke. The $2,000 deposit is just to cover the cost of the airplane tickets and the hotel. But still, I don't know much about this OSD. Really, how cheap is it to buy it oversea.
Yesterday, I went to a Volvo dealer in Jamaica, NY, I ask them about Oversea Delivery Program(to get more info on it)...the sales man thought I was gonna buy the car and export out of the country...:-D.
Again...I would like to know more details..Step by Step.
Thank you.
The prices are set by Volvo Overseas. Typically you get a price that is 8-10% off US MSRP.
They need about 3 months to build you a car to suit, otherwise they do maintain a pool of cars if you need one sooner. You get the airfare and hotel stay in Sweden. The deposit goes with the order. 30 days prior to your arrival in Sweden the balance is due.
15 days of insurance and registration is included with your price. You can purchase up to 6 months of insurance and registration if you like.
Once you drop the car off at the port and fly home your car will take anywhere fom 1-2.5 months to reach your dealer in the US.
Now, it is not always cheapest to buy the car overseas. In many cases, if price is your sole consideration the US incentives are better. These incentives can't be used on Overseas cars.
Most everyone who takes advantage of the program do so because they want the experience, and want a vacation.
But thanks for the info.
One question:
How does the OSD price for the 2005 S40/V50 compare to the US?
US Base $21900 + 685 freight.
Not much difference.
Picking it up one time for my boss from the dealer, the bill was over $2,000. The service advisor said that was very common on older Volvos as their owners loved them and felt they were worth spending that kind of money on. As long as you are willing to pay to ensure reliability, most vehicles will have durability.
My 2002 T5 has been excellent aside from a niggling brake problem with the rears, otherwise it is as tight as the day I picked it up. i typically do not get the same car after my lease is up, but this is the first time in my whole driving career (16 years) that I do not fidget in my seat. i don't know if I can leave Volvos just for their seats! That is why an S60R is in my cards...
Yes, the reliability and durability are two different things and are driven by the different intrinsic characteristics.
However, only the Volvo owners can really understand what does the durability mean.
What makes Volvo a phenomenon is the choices that company makes in the design. The body structure is very solid, the suspension is built to last, the engines (with the known exceptions of some turbo models)will outlast the end of the world.
10-15 old Volvo just drives like a tank, it provides, an very justifiable so, a strong sense of safety and a piece of mind.
And because of some reasonable conservatism in the exterior design, it does not look like a piece of ancient history, because it's already 5 body styles behind.
We, Volvo owner, are well aware that Volvo has an average reliability, but the average level today is high enough to provide a reasonably trouble less ownership, which, in combination with the rather upscale service (at least in some parts of the LA suburbs), ensures pretty much that high level of brand loyalty and retention, that surprises many of the non-Volvo drivers.
It gets even better now, when Volvo is a fun to drive.
We own three Volvo - 1990 740 - as solid as the car could be after 15 years and 150K miles, and by the way - pretty much all the little gadgets works, and I never have a second thought when my 16 years old daughter is out there on a road.
2000 S80 - great cruiser, good looker, we have a lot of fun on our family trips, and I like my comfortable short business trips so much, that never use a company car (Chevy Cavalier), even if I can. DSTC is fantastic, I have stopped using snow chains on my trips to the ski resorts ever since we bought an S80.
And we just bought an XC90 through OSD. We spent 21 day and 2600 miles on the European roads.
It's a great vehicle - versatile, roomy, comfortable, as safe as it could be, fun to drive,
and with the 7 seats (or huge cargo space with 5), AWD, high clearance and even more sophisticated stability system than S80, can accomodate all the demands of our life style.
Now,
I want to disagree with one of the statements
"As long as you are willing to pay to ensure reliability, most vehicles will have durability"
It's not true at all. No matter how much money you will put to ensure that all the components are working - and that is reliability, if the entire body structure of the vehicle is "sagging" or deforming, and the major components like engine, transmission, non-consumable parts of the suspension are deteriorating - your car looks like a junk. Being a first generation immigrant from the former Soviet Union, and driving a whole bunch of old Japanese cars (though extremely reliable when they are new), i think I have enough of personal experience to support my opinion. The mass production Japanese car is built as a consumable unit. It's designed to last some certain time, and then all the major components will reach their predetermined life span and basically "give-up".
The upscale Japanese one, especially Lexus, which is built on rather more durable Toyota platform, and with a bigger investment into the durabilty of major components, is a different story. But than, they are more or just about as expensive as any Volvo.
records. http://www.aiada.org/article.asp?id=18642
My Volvo is 7 months old and has had no problems at this point.
And your point is...
I do not think that anybody here argues that Volvo has a relatively high reliability. The point, at least for me, was that it's reliability is high enough - but that is subjective, and all we can do is just exchange our stories and let other people to decide for them self.
I am perfectly happy with the reliability of my two cars that were in commission for 15 and 4 years, and have no worries about my new XC90.
And I am with you, the Volvo's reliability is high enough for me. I am staying (and going to stay) with Volvo.
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You may need to change the steering stops though.
I took it to the Volvo dealer and had the records pulled. There were nine pages of computerized services codes. All maintenance was done as scheduled. Brakes were recently done. All I could tell was the vinyl on the top door panels was puckered and
coming apart on the driver's side.
Any advice would be helpful.
Not true if you go back. The rear drive Volvos, cars like the s90 have superb turning circles. Only 32 feet. I think the 850 and s60 was below 35 feet as well. It's the P2 Volvos with the terrible turning circles.
Here is some numbers to compare:
in the RWD times:
Model Front track Width Turning diameter
1990 240 56 67 32
1990 740 57 69 32
1990 BMW5 58 69 36
in the FWD arena:
2005 S80 62 72 39
2005 XC90 64 74 39
2004 S40 58 67 34
2005 S40 60 70 35
2005 Acura TL 62 72 39
2005 LexusES330 61 71 37
2005 SAAB 9-5 60 70 37
It clearly shows that Volvo is right there with others or even better.
Modern RWD are right there too.
2005 BMW5 61 72 38
2005 MB E 61 71 37.5
Cars just got wider over the years and ride on bigger tyres.
My conclusion - the turning radius for the P2 platform is not bad at all, right along the best in a class.
P.S. All the numbers are from the MSN Auto specs.
How bout a used S60 T5 and a couple years of college tuition?
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
Unique would be the Volvo. Fact is you can get in serious trouble with all three...are you sure you want or can handle a car THAT fast already?
And I would want to hear from his parents...
'11 GMC Sierra 1500; '08 Charger R/T Daytona; '67 Coronet R/T; '13 Fiat 500c; '20 S90 T6; '22 MB Sprinter 2500 4x4 diesel; '97 Suzuki R Wagon; '96 Opel Astra; '08 Maser QP; '11 Mini Cooper S
All these cars, frankly, would NOT be my choice to give to a 16 year old. If this would not offend anyone, I would suggest an S40 T5 AWD -- new; or an Audi A4 1.8T ultra sport.
If you really want to blow your mind and your parent's money try the Audi S4.
But, to repeat, of your "short list" the Volvo S60R would be the best choice. Another thing, it will be the kind of car that you will not see yourself "coming and going." You'll have a bit more individuality with the Volvo S60R that is.
Thanks again!
Saw the formula one racing. Volvo treated us like a king. Thanks to everybody. Great memories and friendship. Now, can't wait for the car to come back.
Bought my 2004 s60 2.4 Titanium Gray/Black Lthr 2 mos ago. Traded in a 2002 Passat, before that drove Japanese junk.
Having recently undergone back surgery, seat comfort was a high priority and the Volvo doesn't disappoint. The seats are excellent.
I'm fortunate to live in CA as I got the special CA package which includes sports seats, 17" wheels, fog lights, and metal interior trim like on the T5. I hated the fake wood on the 2.5T's and luxury package 2.4's. The car looks awesome, I need to tint the windows though.
Though I miss the power and better steering feel on my Passat, the Volvo is way smoother in the way it rides and more quiet.
So far no problems and the car keeps growing on me, I'm starting to understand this Volvo loyalty thing and perhaps this is the start of a long relationship with this Co.
However, I'm a little worried about Ford's influence. I'm glad I was able to get the last of the completely designed by Volvo models. I'm interested to see how the new s40 works out as it's the first Volvo designed with a shared platform.