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Volvo S60

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Comments

  • pmvipmvi Member Posts: 63
    I've had my T5 5speed for approx 4months now, and it would definitely still be my first choice. I have had no problems with the car (of course, you shouldn't have many problems with any new car). I haven't noticed the dash issue you mentioned, but I'll check it out.

    It's true that the rear visibility is not good--but I got used to it pretty quickly. There also isn't much legroom in the rear seat, but overall the S60 is noticeably bigger than the C-class or 3-series. I don't claim the S60 is a better car than either of the above, but I did like the styling better, and liked the fact that it is different.

    The (objective) things that really stand out in this car are:
    -the seats
    -the stereo
    -the acceleration (from a stop, there is some turbo lag, but once the RPM are past 2500--look out!)
  • genghis721genghis721 Member Posts: 53
    Godeacs

    You noted that the repairs were high $ amounts. How much is high (in US$)?

    You are out of warranty? How many miles do you drive a year?

    Kirk
  • genghis721genghis721 Member Posts: 53
    I thought you had an S60. What car is this?

    Also, why are you forced to pay $600 at 60K miles?

    The other items are pretty bad... but why were they charging you if it was under warranty?
  • genghis721genghis721 Member Posts: 53
    Well, your post was entitled "S60", so that is why I thought at first you had an S60.

    I am assuming (maybe incorrectly) that the problems you have encountered with the car were during the warranty period?

    As for the $600 service -- what is requiring that you pay this? What is so urgent about the service?
  • stevem327stevem327 Member Posts: 98
    I believe he's referring to the 60,000 mile factory recommended maintenance for the S60. That's what's going to cost $600. Most cars have factory recommended service intervals every 7,500 miles (15,000...22,500...30,000...37,500) and so forth. These are in addition to changing the oil every 3,000 miles.

    The 30, 60, and 90 thousand mile services are the most expensive ones.
  • genghis721genghis721 Member Posts: 53
    ...doesn't seem too outrageous if it is a full tune-up, replacing wear parts, etc.

    I would think you could push that mileage point a bit also.

    Steve -- you say that the 60k is the most expensive. Why would the other intervals cost anything if they are under warranty? I'm assuming Volvo is in the same class as an M-B or Jag (service costs $0 within warranty) in this regard.
  • peter82peter82 Member Posts: 2
    Can we get back on the S60 guys. Many of us are not particularly interested in older model volvos.

    My S60 T5 has been great! I got the 5 speed w/ the 17" wheels, and all the options except for cold weather and navigation. The car has a very nice ride, and the turbo power is impressive. I like the fact that it is different, and doesn't have the image of MB or BMW. As for styling, I prefer it to anything out there even close to this price/class range. I also considered the Audi A6 2.7T--which is a beautiful car (especially the interior!), but I finally admitted I liked the T5 better, and it is less expensive. The only thing I would change is to make it slightly larger--for more rear seat room.

    In general, I agree with godeacs that Volvo is not in the same class as MB or Jag---but so what? We're talking about mostly image here (I'm not talking about high-end MB or Jags--since Volvo truly doesn't have anything even close to this class). I would take my S60 over any C-Class or X-Type any day! This is not to say that it is a better car, but I definitely prefer the Volvo.
  • peter82peter82 Member Posts: 2
    I guess the moderator must have just deleted a bunch of non-S60 related posts. My previous post must look a little out of context now....

    Cheers!
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    No, I haven't removed anything from this discussion in recent memory (if ever). However, it does look like a few posts from mid-August on have been deleted.

    Perhaps a poster (or more than one?) decided to remove his or her own posts - that's the only explanation I can think of.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • stevem327stevem327 Member Posts: 98
    The factory recommended maintenance which is done at 7,500 mile intervals is not under warranty. The majority of the items that are replaced or adjusted during those intervals are just normal wear and tear items, so they are not covered.

    Changing all the fluids, replacing filters, adjusting the valves, replacing brake pads...those are all wear and tear items.

    Also, I'm virtually certain that Volvo does not offer free maintenance like Mercedes does.
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    I removed my posts since they were more based on the S90...kept getting asked questions, so kept answering...

    sorry for using up the bandwith!
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    you are right - there is no FREE maintenance on any Volvos....and that's something they're are gonna have to change to keep up with the other Euro cars....
  • stevem327stevem327 Member Posts: 98
    The factory recommended maintenance which is done at 7,500 mile intervals is not under warranty. The majority of the items that are replaced or adjusted during those intervals are just normal wear and tear items, so they are not covered.

    Changing all the fluids, replacing filters, adjusting the valves, replacing brake pads...those are all wear and tear items.

    Also, I'm virtually certain that Volvo does not offer free maintenance like Mercedes does.
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    Since Volvo is now part of the big, happy FoMoCo fam, I doubt they'll be offering anything resembling free, although that would not be unwelcome in the least.

    /J
  • genghis721genghis721 Member Posts: 53
    ..is a Ford Motor sibling, as is Aston. Both offer the maintenance.

    Not a killer variable in my book, but worth consideration, especially considering all of the problems I have heard on this board.
  • stevem327stevem327 Member Posts: 98
    If they really want to compete against the other Euro automakers that are offering free maintenance, they really should consider offering it.

    If I were considering an Audi, MB, Jag, or Volvo for my next car (and liked all of them equally) I'd be inclined to avoid the Volvo. These are all very sophisticated cars and, thus, their maintenance costs will be higher than your average Honda Accord type of vehicle. If I could get free maintenance during the warranty period, that would make a big difference to me in deciding which car to buy.

    I'm not bashing Volvos, don't get me wrong. I still might end up buying one. I just think the free maintenance offer might help Volvo increase their customer base a bit (although they've actually had record sales this year).
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    Steve - I def concur. Don't have the figures in front of me but believe those sales figures are deceiving. While up overall, it's due mainly to the XC70 and S60, while sales of both the S40 AND S80 are down. Not a good sign for 2 models that have been only out a few years. They'd better hope the S60 doesn't run into the same intital reliability issures those 2 models had.
  • pmvipmvi Member Posts: 63
    Free maintenance would be nice, but it's built into the price of the car. You either pay now, or you pay later.
  • stevem327stevem327 Member Posts: 98
    Overall, Volvo sales in North America are up 32% compared to last year, but this is largely due to the popularity of the S60 and Cross Country models. Sales of the S40, V40, and S80 are down 11%, 36%, and 33% respectively compared to the same time last year.

    You can find detailed sales figures by going to www.swedespeed.com, select News, then select the News Archive for August 2001. At the very bottom of the August 2001 news archive there's a story about the latest sales figures.

    Hopefully, the S60 won't fall victim to the same sorts of problems that are hurting the S40, V40, and S80.

    Again, I'm not trying to bash Volvo. I would love to buy one. I like Volvo's philosophy about safety and they are also considered the most environmentally-conscious automaker in the world.

    Let's hope that these are all just growing pains for the S40/V40/S80 and we'll all be eating our words in another year or two regarding their reliability issues.
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    nice philosophy but with Volvo you pay now AND later!! I'd have to spend a lot after warranty on an Audi, for example, to catch up to the $2K+ I've spent on my Volvo for scheduled maint while under warranty!!

    And that's gonna be hard to do since all the near-luxury/luxury cars charge about the same for labor, parts and scheduled services....

    Seems like Volvo has a $2K start into your pocket over Saab, Audi, BMW, MB, etc....

    as a new Volvo owner you will soon find out....
  • pmvipmvi Member Posts: 63
    godeacs: I understand what you're saying, and defer to your knowledge of Volvo maintenance costs. However, at least for me--the Volvo is cheaper than the other cars I was looking at. And by going through TDS, my very well equipped T5 was a very good deal indeed. Offering free maintenance may well cause Volvo to also charge the same prices as their German competitors.

    Believe me, I'm not arguing against free maintenance. I just don't think many things are actually "free".
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    Sorry, but where are we pulling this $2000 figure out of? Owning my 854 T5 thru its warranty period, after pulling my logbook, I can only add up $480 for oil changes, $230 for brake pads and $300 for two complete fluid flushes (brake/coolant/tranny). I'll throw in $50 in wipers I guess. But, that's only about a grand, not two grand, and I'd say I probably over-maintain my Brick. I'll grant that the s60/v70 and 8xx cars are different, but it's what I had for comparison. That said, there is a big difference in my book, between $1,060 and $2,000. I guess if you go for every "value-added" maintenance item that your Volvo (or any) dealer recommends, you'll be digging deep in your pocketbook.

    I'm not saying there isn't an advantage to offering free maintenance, but I also don't see the cost of *not* having free maintenance as being high. I also agree with pmvi, in that so-called free maintenance is not free. You are paying for it, just in the sticker price. In my way of thinking, free maintenance is a great marketing tool to help a mfgr sell cars.

    /J
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    I take it you don't have the dealer service your car per their schedule! I did not "pull" that figure from anywhere.....it's all documented. You don't seem to show any expense for the regular services - heck, the 30K one was almost $400! I took my car in every 5K for oil changes and every 10K for scheduled maintenance. I had an 850 before and the S90 costs were quite similar...add 'em up! And yes, that includes brake pads too....
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    ..forgot to address the "free maint" issue. If all your competition is doing it (all other luxury Euro cars) and you're not - I'd say the cost is quite high! Saab, which is the equal of Volvo, offers 3 yrs/36K - roughly $900 difference - I've checked! Audi offers 4yrs/50K -another big savings. Now if I can get the same quality (or better!) car for about the same or less price, you tell me, who's saving money?

    Look, I've been a Volvo owner since 1982 and until recently have had fairly good luck with them. My thought is, honestly, their quality and relaibility have gone downhill in recent years. Have you looked at the S40 and S80 boards? Alarming! For that reason, I won't take a chance on another Volvo until they get the bugs out. If anyone needs to offer free maint to "comp" their customers, it's Volvo. But they won't....maybe because of all the reliablity issues?....mmm, could be...

    PS I do agree it's a great marketing tool! Especially when you can save $$$$......
  • javadocjavadoc Member Posts: 1,167
    Don't feel attacked, I was asking a question, not questioning your believability. See? ... I wrote: "guess if you go for every "value-added" maintenance item that your Volvo (or any) dealer recommends, you'll be digging deep in your pocketbook." But to answer your question, I did take my car to the dealership for every service that I didn't want to do myself until the warranty ran out, then went to my trusted (non-overcharging) inde-mechanic.

    I have an online copy of the service technician's manual, and I'd post the actual 30K service checklist for you if you'd like, but it's 85% DIY stuff, like check this/that, or rotate tires, look for leaks, and I guess I'm just more hands-on about my cars, and check this/that myself, and replaced plugs myself...which only takes 10mins.

    I just went thru the 70K "biggie" (more biggie than the 30k) and that only cost me $375, including a timing belt replacement, and fluid flush (I had them do everything, btw). Now, don't feel attacked again, but just maybe your dealer's over-charging?

    Of course, if I did have so-called free maintenance, I'd prolly still do as much of the work myself, because I trust my hands more than the dealer's tech's on most tasks.

    Edit: Saw your suplemental post, so... Possibly, the choices don't come down only to money for some folks when they decide on which car to own. I for one don't worry much about a grand over 4-5 years on a car that I'm spending $40k+ on, I find the one that best fits my needs. Just a thought.

    Cheers ;-)

    /J
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    ..well, I felt a little attacked..lol..I do not do work on my cars so rely on the dealer - have always trusted Volvo and they've done a great job. But like most cars in that price range, they are expensive to maintain but I knew that going in back in 1982. I only have done what the dealer recommends, nothing more, nothing less, and have never felt like they were trying to rip me off.

    Here are some of my costs: 10K - $186, 20K - $177, 30K 483 (inc pads), 40K - $321, 50K - $254. First 2 were in FL, the rest in TX. The 60k (1 reason I'm gonna unload) will run over $600, plus I'm dropping $$$ like crazy since the warranty expired: had to replace a 2nd sunroof which I hardly ever use( !)!, A/C system needed work, driver's seat came off rails (!), etc. Don't think I'm being overcharged, they post their hourly labor rates, parts are genuine Volvo so see no room to negotiate (only 1 dealer in town).

    Now you can see why free maint for 3 or 4 yrs would be useful for someone like me! You, obviously, can save some by DIY jobs - more power to you. Suspect that most people who spend that much on a car rely on the dealers for maint/service.

    For me, it's strictly about money, assuming cars are of similar quality. I'm looking for something around $30K or so - just feel that Volvo's are not as reliable as they used to be. Plus I personally am not enamored with the new look Volvos - test drove the S60 and not comfortable with it (vision issues, bland interior, reliability issues, etc). Hence, have looked at Saab 9-5 (with tremendous incentives!), Lexus ES300, Audi A4 and Acura TL - all of which would fit my needs.

    I see your point, hopefully, you can now understand mine.....
  • pmvipmvi Member Posts: 63
    We can all see your point. It sounds like you've found some nice cars for which you have a preference, which is great. But why are you posting here?
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    ..to answer genghis, you and then javadoc. Rude not to respond....don't you think?

    Plus as a L/T Volvo owner have some insight on their cars and recent reliability issues.

    Don't worry, I won't post again unless asked a question...

    Good luck with your Volvo....
  • pmvipmvi Member Posts: 63
    ...and good luck with your new car search!
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    ..thanks! Who knows I might be driving an S60 someday....it really has been tough to consider other makes after all these years. The S60 base or maybe the 2.4T would be the ones I'd consider. The inclusion of AWD in 2002 makes them tempting. Now if they added free maint too....lol
  • ddeliseddelise Member Posts: 353
    Here is my two cents - no manufacturer 'adds free maintenance'. They simply charge for it up front in the price of the car.

    Also, my instincts tell me that the free maintenance is what is prescribed in the service book, not what the service technicians try to sell you. For example, my last car was an Acura CL - it had 7500 mile service intervals. At those intervals, it called for an oil and filter change, as well as tire rotation, and then a inspection of a couple of fluids. So, upon scheduling the service - they quotes me $175 - which included all that + numerous other things. I asked simply for what was in the book - they gave me a hard time - I asked again - and then walked out paying $40.

    I now own an S60 2.4T, and have yet to be in for a service. But wy wife owns a V40, and has had her 7500 mile service. Needless to say, the same thing happened to her. The funny thing is that when the Service Writer Guy was trying to get us to buy the $199 maintenance package, and I kept saying (and pointing to) I only wanted what is called for in the book, the Servce Technician Manager was standing there, and he said to me (and to the Service Writer Guy) to just go with what the book says - that Volvo knows what they are talking about - and that is all I need to maintain the car.

    So what is my point??? I almost forgot, but I think it is that what one pays for is normally much greater than what is required, but what is included in 'free maintenance' is only what is required. Big difference.

    Now, I am not saying that the $199 package is not valuable - it may be. But as I lease the cars, I do not need to spend money on preventative maintenance that may or may not have an effect at 80K, 90K, 125K miles.
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    ddelise - excellent points! Had never thought of it that way. Since I've never owned a "free Maint" car yet, sounds like you may be on to something.

    Also agree there's a difference between buying for the long term and leasing. I've been a "buyer" my whole life so probably spend more on scheduled service for peace of mind, etc.

    By the way, how do you like the S60 2.4T?
  • ddeliseddelise Member Posts: 353
    Thanks for the comments - I appreciate them!

    As for the S60, I have the 2.4T, Premium Package, Geartronic, and 17" Tethys wheels, and the color is Platinum Green.

    I like the car very much. It is very comfortable, and I have actually had numerous people comment on how much they like the looks of the car. I have had 0 problems so far (2700 miles). I do expect for the High Profile tires to set me back alot of money at too soon a time frame (I went 38K miles on my Acura CL, and traded it in with the original tires no problem). The GearTronic is a nice feature, and for only $200 very nicely priced.

    But, here are my gripes - stereo system and speakers are a little weak (HU-613 model). If you are ordering the car, order the upgraded amplifier (for $200), and you get the 200 watt amp and upgraded speakers. Do this after you get the car, and it is a $900 job (or more) from the dealer. I also wish the steering was a little more tight. I do not expect it to be a BMW, because it isn't. But just a little less float would be perfect. Perhaps the AWD version will address this in some fashion.

    Other than that, I have no gripes. I thought the back seat was too small, but I have had friends sit back there (6'2''), and they never complained.

    Let me know if you have any other thoughts, comments, or questions.

    Damon
  • godeacsgodeacs Member Posts: 481
    wow, the Platinum green is a great color - it caught my eye the 1st time I saw the S60s on the lot. Would be the one I'd pick if I went the S60 route.

    How long do you figure the tires will last? And how expensive are they?...almost afraid to ask...

    Had read a review on the base stereo system - they recommended the upgrade too. However, if I was to buy, it'd probably be off the lot. Though as I get older, not sure I'd notice much difference with the upgraded system though..lol
  • equalizer1equalizer1 Member Posts: 177
    might seem minimal to the rest of you, but I can't believe that a $30-$40,000 car doesn't have a real armrest. That killed it for me.

    I own an A4 now (that has a real armrest), and am looking into different options when I need to change cars, and this one small ommission would eliminate the S60 for me.

    Also, the lack of free maintenance that was cited above. There is nothing like getting free maintenance for the life of a lease and/or for the warranty period. Volvo needs to jump on the bandwagon. I believe they are the only European car maker that doesn't offer this amenity. Even a few of the American luxury car makers, i.e. Lincoln, Cadillac, etc., offer this.

    Just my $0.2!
  • dar8dar8 Member Posts: 3
    We just bought a 2001 Siver S60 T24 with $200 Canadian over the dealer cost. It came with the optional 17" wheels, since we did not need the 17" wheels, the dealer change it back to the 16" wheels, but now I found the speedometer consistantly indicate 8km or 5 miles more on the speedometer than the actual speed (using my portable GPS to check the speed) . The odometer indicates accurate distance. Can the dealer adjust the speedometer to fix the inaccuracy ?
  • njrussnjruss Member Posts: 7
    I am considering a 2.4T and am wondering how good a deal it is to take delivery in Europe. How much do you really save, are there any additional costs to be aware of (or hassles). Looking for advice and experiences. Thanks!
  • pmvipmvi Member Posts: 63
    Just check out the website and decide for yourself! The prices are very straight-forward, and there are no hidden costs except one (you need to have insurance for your stay in Europe--even if you are just picking it up in Sweden and not driving it). That cost about $350. Otherwise no destination charge.

    It was fun to pick my S60 T5M up there --and it was very easy to get around. Plus, like ddelise said, you can order the car just the way you want. I did get the additional 200 watt amp. I did not know that that also bought me upgraded speakers, but I have to admit, my stereo rocks!
  • genghis721genghis721 Member Posts: 53
    To maintain warranty?

    ie - do you have to follow the letter of the schedule to kep the warranty up to snuff.

    Kirk
  • jdbtensaijdbtensai Member Posts: 122
    anyone here cross shop these two? any opinions?
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Have you folks had a chance to read Edmunds.com's "First Drive: 2002 Volvo S60 2.4T AWD" yet? If not, you can follow the link in the Additional Resources box on the left sidebar of this page to check it out.

    Pat
    Host
    Sedans Message Board
  • Karen_SKaren_S Member Posts: 5,092
    ....but I'm here to announce the new Volvo Owners club now available on Edmunds.com Owner's Club board. Please stop by and introduce yourself in Meet the Members and let me know how I can help build your club.

    I have linked this discussion into that folder, but it will always reside here in Sedans.

    Looking forward to meeting everyone!

    KarenS
    Host
    Owner's Clubs
  • acroyearacroyear Member Posts: 6
    I recently had the good fortune to drive an S60 for work for 5 days, and I absolutely fell in love with this car. It had made me re-evaluate my car purchase decision for this autumn, and now it is at the top of my list.

    I can get a good deal on a new 2001 2.4T (about $42K Canadian) or I can shell out a little more and go for the 2002 2.4T AWD version ($47K).

    My questions to the owners on this group are:
    -Is Volvo adding the AWD to make up for a deficiency in the cars handling? Or is the "W" driving mode sufficient to get one through winter storms without problems. Does anyone have any real life examples of how the "W" mode has gotten them out of difficult winter driving situations? The dealer I talked to said that the new system is "superflous" and the specific AWD technology used in the S60 has not been proven.
    -The other cars I had been considering were the Subaru Impreza RS, Forester, Jetta 1.8 2002, Audi A4 2001. Is there any other car that I should be looking at that can give me the same level of comfort, safety, and performance for the price?
    -Is there any crash-test information available yet about the S60?

    I'm pretty certain that I will end up buying the S60 because I haven't yet felt this kind of passion over any other of the cars on my list. At the same time I'm nervous about purchasing something so expensive, and also concerned about how my neighbors and co-workers will react!
  • tensortensor Member Posts: 25
    acroyear: I live in New England and bought my 2.4T last January. I had one opportunity to use the W mode, and it worked well. It was a lousy, slick night out, and as I was pumping gas, cars were spinning wheels as they were going up a good size hill by the gas station. As I left the gas station I put it in W mode, and the S60 had no problem at all with the hill, no slipping. That is the only time I've used it, and it is a nice feature. It allows the car to start in 3rd gear which gives you more control.

    As for the price the S60 is not cheap, and I felt the same as you are now about spending the extra. I am, however, not sorry that I did it either. I get lots of compliments on the car, and I have really enjoyed it. The only car on your list that I looked at was the A4, but it felt too small and narrow for me. The Jaguar X-Type with AWD standard is supposedly nice and about the same price so you might want to look at that.

    Good luck!
  • ecarmackecarmack Member Posts: 161
    The S60 sounds pretty good in the November Motor Trend "Affordable Luxury" comparison. The main review touts it as the best "sum of all parts" and the four second opinions pick it also.
  • jdbtensaijdbtensai Member Posts: 122
    where'd y'all go?
  • senneca01senneca01 Member Posts: 34
    Did you all see the November Motor Trend Comparison Test here, check it out:


    Motor Trend Comparison Test, Affordable Luxury!

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Here's your chance:
      Have you bought or shopped for a 3-Series BMW, C-Class Mercedes, Jaguar X-Type or other small sports sedan since Sept 11? If so, your comments are of great interest. Please get in touch with me via jfallon@edmunds.com.

      Thanks as always,

      Jonathan Welsh
      The Wall Street Journal
    You may also drop by the Smart Shopper discussion at this link to respond: prlady1 "Talk to the Press" Oct 8, 2001 1:48pm
  • digisledigisle Member Posts: 1
    Just purchased a S60 T5 w/ ALL options. Got it for $39,165 and the invoice was $39,900. Can't wait to pick it up tomorrow. I got the price through priceline.com and but didn't want to drive to the dealer in Cerritos, CA to pick it up. Instead, I went to my local dealer in Calabasas, CA and got the same deal. In fact, the car I'm getting is the same one from Cerritos. They did a dealer transfer to Calabasas. I am picking it up tomorrow. I was looking at the Lexus E300 (2002). I recently turned in my 1998 BMW 528I and was looking for something different. The NAV on the Lexus is better (touchscreen) but the car was too luxury based. I needed 17" wheels at least and a turbo never hurts. The only problem I have w/ this car is that it's front wheel drive. I hope I enjoy it as much as I enjoyed the test drive!
  • pmvipmvi Member Posts: 63
    Congrats on the new car! I'll be interested to hear what you think of it, coming from a current generation 5series owner.

    I love my T5, but agree it would be cool to have RWD (especially here in LA). The S60 handles pretty well though--hope you like it.
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