Hyundai Sonata 2005 and earlier

drmp · May 2003

When is hyundai offering 3.5 for sonata. This would definitely attract more potential buyers who are in the market for the Camry/Accord.

ray_h71 · May 2003

The engine displacement difference is only 59 cc and the published horsepower and torque specs bear the insignificance of that out. Parasitic losses due to a central driveshaft are negligible. You're obviously knowledgeable about automotive technology, but you failed to consider that the automatic transmissions used in the C-series are 5 speed units. Might that extra gear change lag have contributed to the C-240's poor acceleration showing? In other words what advantage the extra gear supplied may have been more than cancelled by the inevitable time consequence of an extra gear transition. Your opinions made for interesting reading, but, I still think there's a more than even possibility that Mercedes is artificially hobbling that 2.6 liter engine electronically to maximize C-320 sales. The time delay factors due to drive-by-wire are speculative. (Where's the meat...) If anything there should be less delay since there's less mechanical linkage (and associated linkage play) between the command and the throttle-body butterfly' response. The engine control computer "thinks" in milliseconds. We think in deciseconds at best. That's at least an order of magnitude difference. I personally still prefer a mechanical linkage, though. The drive-by-wire technology as it applies to cars is still sorting out throttle response algorithms. There've been many complaints about lag or overly touchy response about many makes using that technology. (Hyundai's had at least one firmware update to flash the EEROMs in the engine management computers of XG350s if owners complain.) As far as I'm concerned, DBW's a solution to a problem I don't have. As to the 3.5 liter V6 used in the XG350 maybe never. It would definitely fit - the XG350 is based on the Sonata platform. It would probably also cost XG350 sales. It would be more likely to see a 3 liter V6 in the Sonata in my own opinion. This could take the form of punched out or stroked 2.7 V6, or a destroked 3.5 V6 - that engine as originally fit to the XG300 -was- a 3 liter powerplant. What I would also add to my personal wish list for the Sonata, and despite my comment above about the possibility of the time lag assoicaited with an extra gear change, is the 5 speed AT from the XG350. Again it would fit. Even if it does result in less impressive all-out acceleration numbers, it might still be an advantage from the standpoint of smoothness (it is a sedan after all...) and reduced gear "hunting" in hilly terrain.

drmp · May 2003

Just had a test drive on an LX model. Definitely more responsive engine than MB c240 from off the line and when merging. The handling is more than enough for my demand (currently driving an SUV). Road noise is a little intrusive on bumpy roads, maybe similar to the previous accord.

ray_h71, in the early 80's when FWD were not yet popular, I read an article about toyota switching to FWD due to the following reasons.

1. Eliminate parasitic loss of propeller shaft (you see it is not negligible in their book). There was a time when Corolla had both FWD and RWD models and the FWD had better acceleration and better fuel economy.
2. The car can be configured to maximize interior space.

About displacement and off the line pick up, the specs only tells you the peak numbers, not the actiual torque between 1500-3000 RPM which is used when starting off from 0-30 mph.

Regarding drive-by-wire, Isuzu Rodeo started using it in 2000 and one owner who bought that model after driving a '98 model specifically blamed the drive-by-wire for the less than exciting throttle response, it took away the fun factor and the aggressive throttle feel.

About extra gear of c240, that is a non-issue when talking about 0-60 mph acceleration because all these cars when pushed hard will reach 60 mph in 3rd gear.

drmp · May 2003

I guess it would be more economically feasible for a transplant of the xg3500's drivetrain to sonata rather than develop a separate engine which would require a lot of money for the R&D. Just take a look at Mitsubishi, the 3.5 motor is found in the galant, diamante, montero, montero sport, endeavor all having the same spec. Talking about sharing of parts, that saves a lot of R&D money, which could cost a lot if you make a specific motor for each model.

lngtonge18 · May 2003

Actually, only the Diamante and Montero Sport use the 3.5. The current Galant uses a 3.0, as does the base Montero Sport (much different hp levels). The 04 Galant, Endeavor, and Montero use a 3.8. I guess Mitsu isn't saving as much afterall

drmp · May 2003

but the montero also started with 3.5. The practice of handing down the drivetrains to other models is very common to car companies (Mercedes included). The 3.8 motor is a new addition wihich may or may not go its way to other mitsubishi model line up.

ohmar834 · May 2003

I own a 2001 Sonata 4cyl Automatic which was purchased new in Jan 2001. Let me tell you the warranty work prformed so far.
22181 miles Replace Heater Blower Motor.
29741 miles Side Impact Air Bag Wire Harness
Routing Recall
29741 Replace Plugs And Wires
35063 Remove and Replace Radio
37806 Replaced Belt Tensioner
41082 Replace Left Front Wheel Bearing
41082 Timing Belt Off 1 Tooth on Exhaust
Retime Engine.
41840 Replace Right Front Wheel Bearing
41840 Replace Alternator

Other than that I love the car
Thanks Hyundai for such a Great Warranty.

hjr2 · May 2003

Hey, next Sonata will b out in 05, nmade in USA, and will get a bump up in size, engine size, butno specfics.

Last guy: Isolated problem. I have had the wiring harness replaced. Took 20 minutes. Had them put new chip in for 02 sensor, that was 20 minutes.
Had them replace a timing belt at 57,599 (engine light came on) for Free, it slipped and was wearing prematurely.
But, I had a 200sx, 97, burned up igniton coil, starter messed up, fried spark plugs, and a few other problems. SOld it at 66K(Nissan) 2 years ago for Tibby(No Problems with it, 62K in 2 years).

My car's a gls-v6 sonata, 1999, with nearly 98K on it in under 4 years. It's still running, and Never(knock on wood) left me stranded like my last Nissan (200sx) did, in 20 degree weather yet.

No Free repairs there... engine warranty ran out at 60K, unlike Hyundai's 100K.

Service is also part of the ownership experience, and I am Very Happy.
The car is great. Like it.

Have a good weekend guys.

sonatabean · May 2003

Any images available of the 2005 Sonata?

pat · May 2003

Welcome back!!

mbnut1 · June 2003

Any comments on $200 over invoice minus $1000 rebate on 4 cylinder Sonata auto with sunroof and antilock $15400 plus tax and license

intrepidspirit · June 2003

You should be able to do better than $200 over factory invoice. In March, I helped my stepson on a deal for a 4-cylinder base Sonata with auto. I had a $1,000 loyalty rebate (because I purchased a 2001 Elantra for my daughter 2 years ago) that brought the price down to $11,988.

Carsdirect.com price for the base in my zip code is currently $14,166 (with auto). This is $1,500 below the factory invoice of $15,566, less $1,000 rebate is $500 below factory invoice. So you should be able to get your car for $700 less than the deal you presented (this may be different for your zip code -- check carsdirect.com.)

I have never purchased a car from carsdirect as I have always been able to get a better deal. However, I have a friend that has used them and he has been happy with the purchase.

Hope this helps.

mbnut1 · June 2003

Thanks much for the reply I'll go to carsdirect and see if we can do better

ray_h71 · June 2003

While you're at it, check to see if Hyundai's still offering the V6 for $100.00. (I'm not sure if that promo was the actual price, or the effective price after some sort of rebate.) There isn't really a mileage penalty to speak of, and it is much smoother and quieter. Due to the V6's aluminum cylinder block, the published curb weight of the car is 5 lbs less than the same car with the iron block I4. "Consumer Guide" said the 0-60 times were 10 sec. and 8.7 sec, I4 (didn't specify which trannie) and V6 (AT) respectively. I'm getting ~25 mpg in town and 30+ mpg on the highway with mine.

mbnut1 · June 2003

This car is for my girlfriend. So she tells another friend of her's (a middle eastern guy who negotiates everything)about the car and he tells her he can get a much better deal. Sure enough he goes up there and another salesman offers him the car for 1500 under invoice plus the 1000 rebate. A full $2000 less than the deal she was offered last night. My lesson learned is that invoice numbers don't mean anything and don't be afraid to offer anything. I feel bad about not helping her more last night. I guess I'm too much of a trusting conformist.

dq1 · June 2003

My wife is wants to replace her '95 Civic (130k miles) since things are starting to go wrong with it, like the a/c has died and other smaller things. She only wanted the new Accord, but I got her to test drive a '03 Sonata GLS and she was really impressed with it and I thnk I'm swaying her away from the Honda. The only think we're hesitant about is the quality. I know Hyundai has been making a big push here lately, but I'd like to know about an major issues anyone is having. I was reading on the "Problems" board where the automatic tranny has a shifting problem between 2nd and 3rd on '00 and '01 Sonatas. Is this still a problem on the new models? Any other concerns?

Thanks!

ray_h71 · June 2003

dg1, my experience with a 2003 Sonata V6 with the AT is that the first 2-3 shift, when under way cold, has a somewhat abrupt quality. Thereafter it's smooth. The engine management computer also delays shifts during cold operation to tame emissions, so, I've mused that may be part of it, but I really don't know. In any event, it's Hyundai's problem for the first 10 years or 100,000 miles. I've had mine for nearly 6 months and have 6,400 miles on the clock. The only warranty service so far was to have the dome light assembly replaced due to an intermittent contact in one of the switches. The only other mechanical issue I've had, if you even want to call it that, is a -very- faint whine on level terrain at any steady speed from about 35 mph to 45 mph. Acceleration or deceleration cancels it immediately. It was explained to me by a Hyundai tech that the noise is due to a bit of slop in the clearances of the differential pinion gear and the ring gear. He said it's harmless* and common, though not universal, with these cars, and that attempting to adjust it out could result in accelerated wear of those gears over the long haul. (To eliminate the noise entirely requires adjusting nearly all factory recommended clearance out with no guarantee that it won't return as the gears' mesh pattern loosens with time.) If there's ANY other noise source in the cabin, no matter how quiet, - radio, AC, wife, or whatever, the differential whine is inaudible.

*My dad bought a new 1960 Dodge when I was in high school. That car's rear end whined louder than my Sonata at any steady speed above 40 mph from day one. The dealer tried several times to adjust the noise out, but with only very limited results. Dad put over 270,000 miles over 15 years on that car with no rear end problems other than the noise. The noise, while quite apparent, never increased in volume during the time he owned it.

rhapsodist · June 2003

I own a 2003 Sonata LX (with ABS/Trac and moonroof). The owner's manual states about the Trip Computer (if installed). Does Trip computer even comes on the Sonata? Cuz, all I have on my fully-loaded LX is Trip odometer (that is, you can compute only Trip-A and Trip-B). If Trip Computer is not available on the Sonatas' than why is it even described in the Sonata owner's manual? Please provide feebacks. Thanks!

ray_h71 · June 2003

Some Sonata LXs were inadvertently shipped to the U.S. without the trick trip computers. (Actually, rhapsodist, all of them, regardless of trim level, were, so don't feel bad. <grin>) The trip computer is probably only available in selected world market Sonatas, OR feature description copy from the XG350 (which does have a trip computer of sorts) owner's manual was inadvertently included in the Sonata owner's manual. If the former, these manuals are printed in Korea, and it's anyone's guess how many countries the English versions go to. (England, Australia, New Zealand, maybe Singapore, where English seems to be becoming the primary language, and of course the U.S. and Canada) The owner's manual lists a number of other items apparantly unavailable in the U.S. So far as I know, we don't get the security "chipped" ignition keys, manual crank windows, or manual door-mounted rear view mirrors described in the Sonata owner's manual, either.

liuyangf · June 2003

I had a test drive of 2001 Sonata (50k, 4-Cyl.) and I felt great. However, I have a few questions:
1. What's the difference between Model STD and Model GLS?
2. When I drove it on highway with speed 70mph (cruise control on), the tach is only 2.7k rpm. Is that normal?
3. The manual in glove box seems to be soaked, so the car could be once under water. But how can I tell that from car itself?

Please let me know your comments. Thanks!

ray_h71 · June 2003

1> The base model has a lower end audio system, no "woodtone" panaling on the console or door rests, manual HVAC, a 4 cyl engine (though the V6 is available at extra cost when origianlly purchased), wheel covers instead of alloy wheels, chintzier fabric upholstery (though just as durable), no map lights, no rear seat cup holders, 15" tires instead of 16" tires, no exterior chrome trim and probably a few items I haven't listed. It ain't a stripper, though, by any means.

2> Yep, that's about right for the I4. My '96 Accord I4 turned over around 2700 rpm at 70 mph, too. My '03 Sonata V6 turns less than 2500 rpm at that speed. Rented a 2000 Buick (supercharged 3.8 liter V6) that loafed at 1900 rpm at that vehicle speed once.

3> A soaked owner's manual proves nothing other than it got wet. The original owner could have had it in the house just after he bought the car to familiarize himself with it the first night and maybe the dog pee'd on it when he got up to get a beer. Maybe he dropped it in a puddle while checking the fluid capacity or tire pressure recommendations while working on the car. Who knows? If you want to get an idea if the car was dunked, have the car hoisted on a lift and look around carefully underneath. You should get an idea that way with input from a mechanic who's familiar with how a car with that mileage would typically look. Also how does the carpet and upholstery look? The trunk? The engine compartment?

intrepidspirit · June 2003

Has anyone seen the latest Sonata TV commercial? I'm not sure what the message is supposed to be (a guy hurrying home to see a baseball game), but the Sonata looks great in the commercial! Some really good photography and angles make the car look really upscale.

As I have posted before, I helped my stepson buy a 2003 base Sonata (auto) for $11,988 after rebates. I'm still amazed every time I see the car -- it looks like $20,000+ easy!

ray_h71 · June 2003

I think the message was that a Sonata LX can be ordered with an optional HomeLink transceiver that would allow a cheap yuppie to drive like a maniac to see, just-in-time, the final homerun on his bigscreen. The commercial might have been even more effective yet if Hyundai had waited until MLB playoffs to air it. I agree - the car in the commercial looks magnificent.

liuyangf · June 2003

Thanks to ray_h71 for providing a lot of information.
For the tach, I have a friend whose '95 Altima I4 (2.4 liter, I guess) turned over around 3500 rpm at 70 mph. So which one is more efficient?
Why a V6 engine turns less than 2500 rpm at that speed?
So tach meter suddently drops means shifting up, is that right? Why?

Sorry I ask so many simple questions. I used to drive '91 Toyota Camry, which has no tach meter.

riez · June 2003

liuyangf... Two critical factors related to the RPMs your engine turns over at various speeds are the individual gear ratios and the final drive ratio. Different cars have different ratios. Same car with different engine often has different ratios. Ratios change across model years. All other factors held constant, the higher the gear ratio and final drive numbers, the quicker the acceleration, the lower the top speed in the gear, the lower the fuel economy, and the higher the RPMs. And vice versa. Key number is the overall ratio, which is the individual gear ratio multiplied by the final drive ratio.

In the Hyundai Sonata, there have been different ratios for the I4 and V6 engines. And different ratios between cars with automatic and manual transmissions. Check out the February 2003 issue of Car & Driver. 10-sedan comparison test.

Kia Optima LX I4 5-speed manual, 3.88 final drive:

1st 3.46 x 3.88 = 13.42 overall ratio
2nd 1.95 x 3.88 = 7.57
3rd 1.30 x 3.88 = 5.04
4th 0.94 x 3.88 = 3.65
5th 0.78 x 3.88 = 3.03

Notice that 4th and 5th are overdrive.

Hyundai Sonata GLS V6 automatic, 3.77 final drive:

1st 2.84 x 3.77 = 10.71 overall ratio
2nd 1.53 x 3.77 = 5.77
3rd 1.00 x 3.77 = 3.77
4th 0.71 x 3.77 = 2.68

Only 4th is overdrive. [The final drive for V6 automatics had been 3.358 in MY 1999 & 2000, and was 3.770 for I4 automatics. Don't remember which MY they changed final drives.]

Here are the numbers for my 2000 Sonata GLS V6 with 5-speed manual (the same as the Kia I4 above):

1st 3.455 x 3.88 = 13.41 overall ratio
2nd 1.947 x 3.88 = 7.56
3rd 1.296 x 3.88 = 5.03
4th 0.943 x 3.88 = 3.66
5th 0.775 x 3.88 = 3.01

Again, both 4th and 5th are overdrive. I wish 4th was direct drive (1.00), and wish 5th was numerically lower for better highway fuel economy and more relaxed (i.e., lower RPM) high speed cruising.

lngtonge18 · June 2003

In general, the lower the rpms at highway speeds, the more fuel efficient the engine will be. Granted, other factors affect fuel economy as well. When the tachometer drops, that means the transmission has upshifted to a higher gear.

tahugoreng · June 2003

Guys,

Which one is the better buy? I know the engine is the same for both car. Have anyone drive the two of them?

Thanks for the advice.

csandste · June 2003

Their prices are non-negotiable and cars move quickly. All cars had about 25K miles and were '01's.

A Sonata was priced at 15K.]
A Mazda 626 was priced at 14K
2 Optimas were priced at 12K.

This is from memory, but I think accurate. The Hyundai price was almost rediculously high but they must know what they're doing. That kind of resale certainly negates the horror story auction guys that are always knocking the brand.

Therefore if I could get a real good deal on an Optima I'd opt for that. That means that the additional depreciation would have to be figured in, however. I've driven both. In 2001, Optimas had 70 series Kumho or Hankook tires on the base cars and Sonatas had 60 series Michelins. I had the same Michelins on my Elantra and they only lasted 40,000 miles so the Kumhos might have been a better deal. Still, the Hyundais were slightly higher in amenities for not any more money. I think both cars now have the same rubber.

The restyled Optima front end is a bit bizarre-- I believe C&D called it "Hannibal Lechter" ish. Other than resale, I think it's largely pickum. I notice that the local Kia dealer has a lot of left over 02's-- new or with about 10,000 miles. If I was looking I'd probably try to get one of those--cheap!

ray_h71 · June 2003

"I think both cars now have the same rubber."

The two makes' current respective sales brochures list 15"/65 series Michelins on the base Sonata, and 16"/60 series Michelins on the GLS and XL models. All Optimas are listed with 15"/65 series rubber. The tire brand is unspecified on the 4-cyl Optima LX (Kumho or Hankook?), but Michelin on the V6 LX and SE. Of course, equipment and features are always subject to change without incurring obligation to prior buyers yadayadayada...

sonatabean · June 2003

Hi there - never left, just never say anything unless I have cause. . . .

And, actually, the first really damn annoying thing has happened to my car.

The sunroof sunshade has started to vibrate. Driving, idling, smooth highway or rough road, I get a varied, deep melodious BUZZZZZZ, varying in tone and intensity depending on circumstances, from the sunroof sunshade which is about to drive me into murderous insanity.

So, for now, I drive with my right hand pressing up on the sunshade: keeps the BUZZZZZZ silent.

I cannot, however, live with this forever!!!!

AIIIIGH!

sonatabean · June 2003

I have been recently reading car mag articles on the new combustion/electric hybrids out. Apparently the new Civic hybrid and the 2004 Prius hybrid do some amazing things with combining power, torque, and really tremendous MPG.

Given how much hybrids have advanced, the current economy, and eliminating dependence upon Arab oil (via their actions, after all, it's pretty clear they just don't like us - so why do business with them?), I was wondering if posters here would be interested in trying to encourage Hyundai to make a decent little hybrid (a real hybrid, not just one of those "engine shutoff" scams).

Despite my car's BUZZZZZZ, the engine has been wonderful for nearly 50K miles now . . . and frankly I think Hyundai is perfectly capable of offering us a Sonata or Elantra with all the creature comforts, a bit of acclerator "oopmh," AND the 45 - 55 MPG the other hybrids are getting.

I thought I'd bring this up because I recently participated in a long-term consumer survey (I don't think I can tell you who did the survey - but it was with a big stats firm) and I was sorta surprised at the general support the hybrid concept is getting.

I'll be the first to publically admit, if I could trade my 2000 GLS on a 2005 LX with a hybrid engine and get, say 45 mpg and similar performance . . . I'd do it because it's good for me, my pocketbook, the country, and the environment.

Any takers on this?

sonatabean · June 2003

For those interested, here is the address if you wanna write and ask / encourage Hyundai on a hybrid: if you have the desire, drop them a line, tell them you like their cars, and ask for a hybrid.

Perhaps they'll listen???

Hyundai Motor America
ATTN: Consumer Relations
RE: Hybrid Vehicles
10550 Talbert Avenue
Fountain Valley, CA 92728

dunworth · June 2003

I have owned three Hyundais over the years.
- a 1989 Sonata - horrible, wonky transmission which was repaired under warrantee but the car drove poorly - it was a freeby from work
-1994 Excel - flawless, trouble free car. Last of the old model. Was basically a Mitsu Precis. Nice little motor.
1998 Elantra - another flawless car. Superb ride and handling for the money. Better driving dynamics than the Corolla we replaced it with although the Toyota is more refined.

I recently drove a 2003 Mitsu Galant rental - nice car. Is this car in any way related to the current Sonata/Optima (Magentis in Canada). The one I drove had a 2.4L I4.

tark101 · June 2003

Stay FAR away from these guys, they ripped me off.

I waited 2 weeks for my order then finally decided to start asking questions.

They wont answer any of there phones and I never got a e-mail reply either.

I checked with the BBB, and found that previous complaints have been made this month.

I guess I just learned a valuable lesson

wpbharry · June 2003

Saw an item a short while ago in here about the next Sonata being an '05. I disagree. From what I've heard, both the Sonata and the Santa Fe (which is based on the Sonata) will be all-new for '06, and dealers are ticked to say the least. I'm considering an '04 LX and will be comparing it to the all-new '04 Malibu (have a '98 Malibu currently). Several of my friends have '01 and '02 Hyundais (Elantra, Sonata and XG350) and not one has had any major problems.

wpbharry · June 2003

A few random notes on recent posts:

1) I've heard that the Accent and Elantra are up for a makeover before the Sonata. Actually, a smaller-than-Santa Fe SUV (another, ugh) based on the new Elantra is due for '05, which supports this opinion. I WISH the Sonata was all-new for '05. I'd wait for sure. The only new thing coming for '04 is the Kia Amanti (an extended XG350). Let me know if you know more for sure (not speculation).
2) Sonatabean: Granted they are vastly different vehicles, but my '98 Malibu has the same moonroof shade vibration problem. I've found that opening the shade 1/4-1/2" solves my problem. At least give it a try.
3) XG350 vs. Sonata. Where do you come up with a relationship between the two? The XG is NOT based on the Sonata. The XG is only slightly larger, but is a tank on the scales vs. the Sonata. They're COMPLETELY different platforms. This doesn't bode well for the 3.5 litre fitting in the current Sonata. It does fit in the '03 1/2 Santa Fe, but that's a much taller vehicle. But, I'll bet we see a much more powerful engine in the next Sonata (with a hefty price increase to boot).
4) Sonata vs. Optima. At least here in West Palm Beach, we have a brand-new state-of-the-art Hyundai dealership facility, but Kia still operates out of a "shack on the highway". My next-door-neighbor has an '03 Sedona minivan and hasn't stopped complaining about poor service at the Kia dealer. I've heard complaints about Hyundai dealer service incompetence as well, but not like that. Just something to consider.

ray_h71 · June 2003

While Hyundai did an effective job of hiding it, the current Sonata and XG350 do, indeed, share a mostly common platform differentiated in some, but by no means all areas. Their front and rear suspensions are virtually identical but for the spring rates, shock valving, disk brake rotors (The XG350 has a five lug wheel arrangement the way God intended cars to be equipped.), and anti-sway bar diameters. Their front and rear track widths are identical, too. Their front and rear subframes are near clones. Pull the carpeting and the seats (which are shared between XG350s and the Sonata XLs down to their stitching pattern) and the floor pan stampings are nearly identical, too. The XG350's is longer allowing the exactly 2" longer wheelbase of the XG350. Their commonality has been mentioned in print from Consumer's Guide to Road & Track. Here's another piece of information to choke on: this same platform is also the basis for the Santa Fe.

wpbharry · June 2003

Well, here's another bit for you to choke on. The XG has been Korea's "Limo" for MANY years. I'm not doubting you exactly, but how do you explain basic structural diffs, such as frameless windows in the XG vs. frames in the Sonata. Maybe we should pan this discussion until we see how clever Hyundai is with the Kia Amanti.

Beginning to think I'll stick with GM.

ray_h71 · June 2003

Hi, Harry,

Your comment about the XG350 (or whatever domestic name it's distributed as in Korea) being the "national" limo is correct. But, not as a totally exclusive entity in its present form. When the Hyundai group decided to get serious about world distribution of its automotive products, it was wise enough to realize that maximum usage of a few platforms would minimize its research, development, and production costs. When the current Sonata and XG350 were in the design stage, the engineers were instructed to share a common platform - essentially the floor pan and lower chassis parts - as much as possible. Everything above the door sills was fair game for alteration (well nearly so - eyeballing the windshield suggests the two cars may also share that piece perhaps). They're obviously not "siblings" as the Optima and Sonata are, but, "1st cousins" might be an appropriate description. The Sonata/Optima are at least as related to the XG350 as the Lincoln LS is to the Jaguar S-type. (Shoot the Lincoln LS shares its platform, modified, with the Thunderbird, too! That's really a stretch to contemplate.) And, like those two marques' obviously different styling, the XG350's stylists were free to pursue product indiviuality - even to frameless side door glass as you pointed out. (merely required a modified C-pillar, modified front and rear door configurations, and a roofline modification - not as big an engineering consideration as it might seem) I had occasion when I had my Sonata in to have the dome light assembly replaced under warranty, to stroll through the dealer's new car lot. A salesman was showing the two cars, side by side, to a customer with the hoods of both open. There was a startling similarity of the two engine bays' inner sheet metal structure. I wouldn't want to bet against the possibility that the 3.5 liter engine and five speed automatic transaxle fitting into the Sonata. But that might not even by necessary. Hyundai really hasn't exhausted (shoot, they haven't begun...) development of the "Delta" small block V6 tweaks. I have a feeling that motor could be bored and stroked easily to 3 liters; continuously variable valve timing and lift is another option just a head re-design away, etc. The motor's got a strong bottom end (quad-bolted mains with a stiff cast aluminum lower bearing bridge and further stiffening in the form of an aluminum crankcase casting bolted to the block extending below the crankshaft centerline - in effect making it a "Y" block.) as if the engineers anticipated further development that would stress the lower end.

It was never my intention to cheapen the XG350 in anyone's eyes. It deserves the respect of a luxo-cruiser it earned in its owenrs' eyes. The next generation model (which the car mags say the platform will be shared with the upcoming 2004 Kia "Amanti", will be larger (and presumably heavier) yet. A picture of the Amanti in "Car Preview" magazine shows conventional framed side window glass. I have no idea whether this car (and the next generation XG350) represents an etirely new platform that will no longer be shared with the Sonata/Optima lines.

I'm looking forward, too, to see the 2004 Sonatas. My bet is this far into its production cycle there won't be anything other than standard feature updates, but...

nato1 · July 2003

The sonata could be retrofitted with the rear axle of a Santa Fe and slap on a 30 hp (22kW) dc motor onto the driver shaft.Integrate it to a motor controller to a large capacitor bank (or high capacity NICads). Pretty easy stuff to do, if you think about it. I wonder if moster machines on TLC could do it? The electric part of the whole thing doesn't need to be a pancake motor in place of a cylinder.

ray_h71 · July 2003

Have you approached Hyundai, Korea directly with your proposal? Sounds like a very interesting idea. (Why didn't I think of this?) You might want to consult a patent attorney first, though, to properly protect your legal interests before you license your advanced concept to the home office.

sonatabean · July 2003

Yes, in fact: I did write Hyundai. I was hoping to start a letter writing campaign, actually. S'why I posted the address.

Given the incredible popularity (at least with the sufficiently $$$ customers) of the Hybrid Toyota Prius and the Honda Civic in my incredibly boring midwest city (Columbus, Ohio), I did write Hyundai America about the combustion (gas or diesel)/electric hybrid design because, despite what the American manufacturers keep saying over and over and over again, people do want hybrids.

I reached this conclusion after participating in a major consumer study from a very, very, very reputable marketer who was examing exactly what consumers want out of vehicles down the road (part of my agreement was not telling who did the study - so I won't). I was frankly surprised to hear that the vast majority of people in the study would (like me) be willing to pay more for a hybrid if (1) there was no loss in power or performance and (2) there was sufficiently better MPG to offset the exense.

Given Hyundai's leaps in qualiy (first in 1997/1998 and then again in 2002/2003), I honestly think that an Elantra/Sonata hybrid (or even a whole line of hybrids spanning Elantra, Sonata, and XG) would serve Hyundia, the consumers, and the nation well.

After all, it's not like (1) the Earth is growing more oil, (1) Saudi business practices are growing more ethical, or (3) the air, soil and water are growing cleaner and healthier on their own. As an American, I frankly think it's my obligation to consume wisely for the betterment of my country.

That said, I'm still a sufficiently self-absorbed SOB to want my auto-air, leather power seats, and "oomph" under the accelerator pedal.

Well - Honda and Toyota already have their hybrids out and are expanding hybrids into the luxury market for 2004 and 2005 - so why not Hyundai? It would be good for us, for the country, for the economy . . . and naturally for Hyundai, too.

Besides - the R & D would be much lower now: there are two damn good platforms they could study for ideas on how to implement hybrid power on their own cars.

In short: I want my next car to be a zippy, hybrid-powered, 4-cylinder Sonata LX.

Am I asking too much???

sonatabean · July 2003

Actually, I really don't care about the patent issues. I'm in the medical area: a decent SULEV (or even highre) rated Hyundia Hybrid would be in the realm of "public service" in my book - much like providing first aid to an accident victim.

After all, to some degree, we're all victims of a stupid US petroleum and environmental policy, right???

libertycat · July 2003

sonatabean · July 2003

Don't hold back there - tell us what you *REALLY* think, eh?!

libertycat · July 2003

I just about worship the 2002+ Sonata's styling

tahugoreng · July 2003

I am planning to buy a used one.

I would like to hear from your experience on this car, especially the problems.

I am also considering Mazda 626 2002 or Sonata 2002, they are about the same used price level. which one do you think it's better?

Thanks for the advice.

redzx3 · July 2003

Hello everyone i am the new owner of a black sonata gls . I would like to say thanks for all the info that i got in here on the car . So far i am very very happy with my sonata gls . When you buy a sonata you get so much for your money . This car has so much class and it drive's great .I have been ask is that a new Jag your driveing there .And also it looks so much like the Benz C class that i may get a m-benz tag to put on the front on my car . I just love this car .Take care all .

tark101 · July 2003

All I can tell you is I love my 2002 GLS.

Compare the features of the 626 and the sonata.
The Sonatas come loaded, and I also like the styling of the sonata more then the 626.

ray_h71 · July 2003

Re: "hyundai sonata 2002?"
tahugoreng, since the disaster days of 1998* and earlier, Hyundai's QC has come up dramatically. A 2002 sonata would likely be a sound purchase, but, unless the seller is an in-house parent or offspring family member, you will not get the remainder of the 10 year/100,000 mile powertrain warranty - just whatever's left of the basic 36,000 mile warranty.

*Only a bit over 90,000 Hyundai cars sold in the U.S. that year. For 2003, the company's closing in on over 400,000 sales in the U.S. The name "Hyundai" may still invoke derision among some, but the steadily climbing sales figures show that where the buck leaves the wallet, the naysayers are increasingly being ignored.

Re: "My new Sonata GLS"
redzx3, it's always good to hear from a happy Sonata owner. They are nicely styled cars with pleasingly integrated styling references to the premium marques you referenced. But isn't suggesting plastering a Mercedes-Benz price sticker on your car a little over the top? Kinda like publically flaunting a fake Rolex...

Hyundai Sonata 2005 and earlier

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