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Comments
: )
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee
Maxamillion
From what I've seen thus far, the '02 Camry looks better than the '02 ES 300. Most dealerships should have at least one tomorrow, so check it out. You will be just as surprised as I was. Toyota has another top seller on its hands!
Have driven 2 days now and my back aches for a couple of hours after driving the car. I have the power seat but there is no lumbar adjustment and not forward/rearward tilt on the base, just up and down. The seats are uncomfortable. Maybe I am just out of shape and need to loose some girth. Although I am only a 34 waist.
Anyway, I paid for aftermarket leather and am having it installed tommorow. By evening it will be ready. I spoke with the leather installer and they told me there are many complaints about the Camry cloth seats. Apparantly the design is poor and the cloth tensile is not very strong. What happens is that the foam and cloth are not very supportive, as compared to other cloth seats. Drivers sink too low into the seat and the "bulging" lower part of the seat hits the wrong section of the lower back, thus causing pain and/or discomfort while driving.
The leather I am installing is perforated version with foam support padding sewn onto the backside for both the lower and upper portions. I am hoping that this will take car of some of the discomfort and add a good amount of support and padding to the front seats. By the way...the back seats are incredibly comfortable!
From the front, it looks exactly at that shown on http://mag-x.com/scoop/camry0106/index.html.
Form the side, It does not look as sleek as that shown on http://www.thecarconnection.com/index.asp?article=3971&n=158,178&sid=178.
It looks taller and to me look like a Lexus GS300 from the side.
From the rear, it looks a big like Avalon as well as Maxima. Though it is much better looking to me than both Avalon (it ugly look turn me off) and Maxima (acceptable look to me), and I also agree with post #1356 that it looks better than the '02 ES300.
It is pretty nice inside, rear leg room is adequate and trunk is deep.
Sorry I did not have camera nor digicams with me.
Still there is no brochure yet and the dealer have no idea when they will get it.
Have you changed your mind?
At the same $30K for a fully loaded XLE V6 with navigation, you could actually get a "new" 2001 Lexus ES300 with Value Package after discounting.
Without navigation a loaded 2002 Camry XLEV6 will be about $28K if it is $30K with it.
Even if you get a less loaded model with $2000 less in options, that it still $26K.
The fully loaded Accord with 200HP, leather, moonroof, dual power seats, homelink, 6-disc CD, alloy wheels and on and on stickers for $25.5 and can be had for $23K plus discount financing.
A TL with navigation is available discounted to a little less than the MSRP of a topped out 2002 Camry.
If the dealers are planning zero discounts on all new 2002 Camrys, then it will not be competetive at all.
: )
Mackabee
: )
Mackabee
GH (LE only) $585.00
GI package 2 $875.00
GJ package #3 $2,065.00
GK package 4 $$3,115.00 SE V6 only
GL package 5 $3,695.00 SE V6 only
GT package 6 $4,745.00 SE V6 only
GU package 7 $1,150.00 SE V6 only
some of these packages cannot be ordered together as they conflict with some equipment. I'll post the equipment content later tonight.
: )
Mackabee
We need reliable appliacnces not a fancy toy.
Then do not buy a $31500.00 camry and buy a $20,000 camry.
See, solved your problem.
Great styling inside and out. The interior is by far the best I have seen period. The cloth interior on the SE was very sport like and the dash instrument cluster was way cool. The car drove like a dream, better than my 93 Lexus SC400.
I am 6'1 265lbs and was very comfortable with lots of leg room with 6 inches between my knees and the dash board. Everything was at my finger tips and stereo was excellent. The center arm rest was big enough inside to hold a six-pack.
The bad:
Price? 24,800, no V-6 see ya.
Needs a V-6, the 4 banger was fine for a base model but this car is weak with out the V6. Would much rather give up sun roof and fancy wheels for the V6. Back seat entry was about the same as old Camry getting in and out, unlike the Maxima which is great.
I told the salesman he can call me in 4 weeks after I drive the 2002 Altima.
I think Toyota has another winner here as long Nissan's Altima is priced accordingly.
car!! It was fully loaded except it did not have the "head air bag curtain". The dashboard is
pushed further away from the driver as Honda does with the Accord. Makes you think there
is more space in front, which I believe there probably is. The dashboard is two-toned, just like
in the ES300 Lexus. Very upscale looking. The automatic air conditioning was easy to use and
there is a trip computer with a center dash layout, with the controls on the steering wheel. Seems like these buttons would be better used for the radio,(but that's my preference). You sit much higher in this car, just like in the Avalon. The ride was very smooth and refined with no wind noice noticable, but then I only got it up to 60mph. I checked the engine response and accelerated from 30 to 60 and found the engine made more noice than my 99LEV6.(which I cannot hear at all). The ride was perfect for me. Very controlled, but smoooooooth!!! The radio was a 6 speaker setup that was adequate, but not anything special. The sticker was$
28950.00. OUCH!!! This is a VERY nice car, but I have trouble with those numbers. Lots of other cars in that price range (Acura TL, Maxima, Passat GLX) The Acura and Passat will have better warranties being( 4yrs./50,000 miles). But I do like the looks. Finally the interior has some class to it!!! Digicam was in my RX300, so I didn't have the digicam for pix. But all dealers have at least one for you to drive and enjoy. Hope this helps!!!
The only pricing post that has me concerned is the $24,800 for an SE 4clyinder. I agree that a $23,700(plus dest) SE V6 (all autos..grr..) with comparative fewer boxes checked off on the options list would be a better choice.
Mackabee (if you dont mind) how much, including destination, is an LE 4cly automatic with ABS, pwr driver's seat, keyless entry, and CD audio? (kinda similar to the basic package available on 2001 LEs)?
~alpha
from the home page:
click About Toyota
click News
scroll down to "Product"
~alpha
I think it is premature to wave your arms too much at this stage over pricing. HOWEVER, I would also observe to Cliffy and Mac and the other insiders on the board that my first reaction also was one of disbelief. Now, we veterans all know that very soon [inside of 3-6 mos], the marketplace will dictate the price of this car, not Toyota's window sticker. That was reality yesterday, and it will be reality again tomorrow.
And the real bread-and-butter will not be loaded XLEs, but moderately optioned LEs, as always. Having said that, if your transaction prices in the real world vary more than [my very experienced guess] about 5% from the norm for this class, then it's going to be rebate time again before Easter gets here.
One of the things to keep in mind about Toyota's MSRPs is that they don't hesitate to use rebates [historically], whereas Honda considers them the kiss of death. Thus Honda retail stickers are set at a level that will almost always undercut their Toyota counterparts, though this is not written in stone anywhere. Honda is willing to subvent leases and discount financing, but they don't do rebates.
Prediction: if a moderately well equipped LE V6 is going to sell for real-world, discounted, actual transaction prices 6 months from now for more than $23k or so, then you will have a roaring bonafide hit. Our '01 Accord EX V6, which I can tell you after nearly a year in our hands is one great piece of work, stickered for $25.5 with everything except curtain head bags, and transaction prices are $22.7 - $23.5k. For that price, the only tradeoffs vs the current Camry were a bit more noise [not much mind you, after the changes that Honda made this year], and a bit firmer ride...pretty traditional differences between the two marques. Oh, and my car was considerably more comfortable and roomy than the Camry.
Now the new Camry is roomier, hopefully more comfortable for larger adults, and I'm sure is even more refined. That will be worth something...until the new Accord comes out in 12 months, never mind the new Altima in 3 weeks. But I too predict that Toyota will find it has overreached on the MSRPs, and watch for rebates before the end of the first model year...say by summer of '02. Trying to sustain transaction premiums over the competition of more than $1k or so is going to be very difficult. I'll be an interested spectator...and an eager test driver as soon as the initial hoo-hah blows over and dealer inventory starts to build.
Anyway, to all of you worried about pricing - stay calm and be patient...the marketplace will dictate the right answer, as it always does.
: )
Mackabee
Toyota posted the facts, and did anyone notice the sporty additions on the SE? Shame you can only get an auto, but in DC traffic, I will not be driving a manual anytime soon! Once the dust settles, if I can get a nicely loaded SE 4-banger for under 23k, I'll unload my 1996 Pathfinder for it! (talk about uncomfortable seats!!!)
also, anyone notice the highway mileage of the 4 auto? 32??? very nice!
- itching to drive one
If you like the '02 Camry but "cringe" at the price, just wait until the excitement calms down. This sticker shock will be a thing of the past at least by 2nd qtr '02 and deals will be plentiful. I have my eye on an '02 SE 4cyl w/ alloys, sunroof, and JBL...but not for almost 25K!
Right now my choices include:
2002 Camry SE I4 manual
2002 Camry LE I4 manual
2002 Nissan Altima 2.5S manual
2002 Nissan Altima 2.5SL manual
2002 Nissan Altima 3.5SE manual
2002 Volkswagen Passat GLX manual
2002 Nissan Maxima 3.5SE manual
2002 Infiniti I35 with Sport pkg.
look under the forum and it's posted. the pics are large and a little fuzzy, but you'll get a feel for it!
can't wait to see it in person!
no alloys on an SE model is pretty odd, but they figure us SE types will just throw our own rims on it anyways. 20" rims...ahhhh ya
"all show, no go"
-hooligan
The Camry 2002's are available in SE as stick only in the 4 cyl. That SE is also available in automatic, as well as an automatic V6. The sparkplugs in all are iridium tipped for 120k mile lifetime. That vvt-i motor is beefy and smooth as silk. The lower line model is no more(CE) and the model lines now start with a very lovely equipped LE. The next step up is the XLE or SE model. SE is standard with better suspension, 16" alloys and sport guages, sport shocks, and other sporty frills.
i noticed it mentions *gasp* wheel covers, so i don't think alloys are in the base price, right? even so, all those goodies for 20,300 (4-manual) is very nice. throw in auto, alloys, sunroof, and we're sitting at 22k (MSRP). give it 6-8 months, and get it out the door for 21k (inc. dest.)
guess we'll see how much zip that new 4 has. the 6 will catch some heat from the 2002 altima (255 hp), but its rear is enough to make me not buy it!
"a wise man once said that it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt."
The 4 cylinder Altima will have 175 HP. I think the Altima rear tails lights are very GS400 like.
I will drive the Altima then decide which car to buy.
2002 Acura TLs with navigation have a MSRP of $31,360 including the destination charge and are sometimes available discounted down to about $30K.
They come with a 4 year B2B warranty, 5-speed automatic with Tiptronic, more power and more prestige than a Toyota Camry at least.
The Camry XLE V6 without the nav may be priced slightly less than a MSRP of a Passat GLX, but the GLX is usually available discounted even more than a TL and has a gorgeous interior.
A brand-new 2001 Lexus ES300 with leather, CD and moonroof is available for less than $31,500 after discounting.
Many people with $31K to spend would prefer to have a Lexus or Acura for that much money.
In that price range, the Camry is also competing with Infinitis, Volvo's, and other near-luxury models in that range.
You could also spend $23K on a a relatively lightly equipped 2002 Camry LE or a the same $23K on a discounted 2002 Accord EXV6 that is equipped more like a heavily-loaded XLE.
People are going to rush to buy these 2002 Camrys for how long at these prices???
profit, without astronomical rebates.
Think about it... do you know anyone who, since, say... April who has been seriously considering a 2001 Altima.... You'd really have to care only about price to buy one, and not at least wait to see what the 2002 has to offer. This probably made it a bit harder to sell the Altima without huge rebates.
does anyone agree or have different ideas?
thanks,
alpha
PS- no alloy wheels as standard is bizarre on the XLE, especially since items like the JBL audio and rear sunshade are included. I guess thats the price that you pay for shaving $1800 off the 01's XLE 4cly base price.
Mackabee is a true toyota dealer, actually should be a BMW dealer, he has the arrogance for it! If you want basic, reliable 4 cyl transportation then Camry is it, if you want something different, a better V6 and something fun to drive, many many other options out there. And, Toyota dealers are becoming truly arrogant and after reading the sludge issues with the engines I do think they have a design problem since 98 redesing of the engine, run hot and nitration sets in and sludges the oil which Toyota refuses to cover under warranty!!!!!
I'm a bit disappointed, however, with the interior styling of the new Camry. Maybe the pictures posted on camryman.org don't do justice, but it looks like the interior is a bit bland. The gauges are done tastefully, but they're a bit boring, as is the center console. The clock at the top of the center console does add a nice touch.
but the interior-even though 100% better than 2001 Camry-still is kinda weak. It looks kinda like a Accord interior because of that big open bin in front of the shift lever.