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Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

17374767879165

Comments

  • george00george00 Member Posts: 81
    I am an owner of a 2002 LE4 who has found the car flawless except for the driver's seat. The problems you describe are shocking. A defective headlight assembly can happen, and once they fix it, it will probably be fixed. But that brakes on a new car should need virtual redoing is to say the least surprising. That there is rust in the engine compartment is simply incredible. I am not an engineer, much less an automotive engineer, but I understand rust as the oxidation of raw metal over time. How can rust appear on new parts? While it sounds far-fetched, if I were you I would run the VIN number through Carfax and make sure I had a new car.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...that are unpainted and contain a lot of iron. This includes a lot of the exhaust system, including some components visible in the engine compartment. It also includes brake rotors. It is obvious to me that the car in question got a lot of exposure to outside moisture on its way from factory to dealer.

    I would worry less about the surface rust on iron-based engine components, and a lot more about why those brake rotors were not replaced. They should have been...I would have insisted on it and not accepted turning the existing rotors.

    This means that they can't be turned again, and thus will have to be replaced [out of warranty, of course, several years from now] before they would have been otherwise.
  • ahossaahossa Member Posts: 152
    You have experienced the fear that most new car buyers agonize about. Getting a problem car. It seems as though that car was sitting around for a while on the lot. I have seen that commercial offering the 3.9% financing and no where in NYC was there any mention of you must buy a car in stock to get that 3.9% financing.If you bought the Highlander from the same dealer you should have been treated better.What state are you in and what's the name of the dealer.
  • greg130greg130 Member Posts: 4
    One of the reasons I went back to Toyota is I had a Great experience buying the Highlander V6 Nonlimted with no problems so far. My wife and I love the Highlander and would highly recommend it.

    The Camry is a different story. I talked to the dealer today and they are not going to replace the rusty parts. They keep insisting that it's normal its not going to be a problem and they could show me other new engines with the same rusty parts too.
    Well I don't think it's normal and I don't like it but what can I do, they won't take back the car, I tried, I asked for a swap to a Japanese made Camry and they said no they don't do that, that they would fix everything but yet won't replace rusty parts. So I guess they're not fixing everything.

    I did request that all four rotors be replaced with new one's since I paid for new ones, not cut ones. I'm awaiting an answer as to if and when I can bring it in to have it done.

    This is what you would expect from the big three cars not from Toyota. That's why everyone reading this is looking here They're are tired of it. I was tired of replacing transmisions in my minivan. I was tired of seeing the paint on my truck peel right off since they didn't put enough paint on it, thats why we buy Japanese cars cause were tired of giving all our money back to the dealer for repairs, and paying for poor quality, but I guess that's not true any more at least for me.

    I can only speak about my experience so far so I'm sure this is an isolated case and not all Camrys are going to need a brake job, but if your in the market for one make sure you check out the brakes and other problems listed on this site before buying.
  • bklynguybklynguy Member Posts: 275
    I keep hearing that the seats on the 2002 Camry are not good for long drives. I test drove the XLE with leather seats and they felt ok ( I'm 6'1 by the way ) any feedback , both positive & negative would be greatly appreciated. I need a new car in the next 3-5 weeks.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    Suggest you rent a new Camry with the power seat and drive it for an extended period over a day or two - that will tell you how it feels to you.

    These things are highly personal - you've read a number of comments that tell you that different people have different reactions to the seat shape that Toyota has chosen.

    Before settling on our '03 Corolla, we rented for two days to make sure I could fit and be comfortable - this is another car that has generated some comments, in this case it has to do with the driving position and location of the dead pedal, but the point is the same: try it first, and not just for 20 minutes on the freeway.

    All of the Toyota dealers in our area have rental cars available, and at pretty reasonable rates. Take advantage.
  • joedbobjoedbob Member Posts: 27
    I am 6'5" and have the 2002 Camry XLE V6 with leather seats. I am more comfortable in the Camry than I am in my 2000 Avalon XLS. The seat in the Camry is smaller than the Avalon seat but the center console is lower, giving you much more leg room. On a recent 1000 mile trip the Camry seats were very comfortable and I never felt cramped or tired. It is a great car.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    First, I can't believe a dealer would turn new brakes. Are you positive they didn't replace them? That should have been a straight warranty replacement.

    Next, the rusted bolts is normal and has been for years. I know the exact ones you are talking about because I had to discuss this way back in '94 with some customers. The "rust" is actually little more than surface oxidation. It will not get any worse. I promise.
  • greg130greg130 Member Posts: 4
    The brakes were definetly turned it says so on the invoice and I was told this by the service manager that in order to correct the braking problem that they would have to grind down the rotors and replace the pads. he asked me if I still wanted this done since it was going to take another hour and half to do, which I waited for it, took two and half hours total time there waiting for repairs.

    Heres what the invoice says.

    CAUSE: FRONT ROTORS OUT OF ROUND

    PARTS: REPLACED FRONT PADS - AND GRINDED ROTORS

    CAUSE: ROTORS OUT OF ROUND

    PARTS: REGRINDED REAR ROTORS

    Today I called the dealer and talked to the service director who said they were going to fix everything except the rusty parts, and I do mean parts not rusty bolts.

    Cliffy1 the parts are the VSU valve and the front pipe gasket which is a sheet of metal not bolts.

    As far as surface oxidation that may be true on the VSU valve but not on the front pipe gasket its rusty.

    He also said he would show me other Camry's with the same rusty parts. Which dosen't seem right to me.

    I told him I want them to put new rotors on instead of these cut ones. He said he couldn't believe they did that ( turn the rotors ) and that if he new about it they would have put new rotors on instead. So it sounds like I'm getting new rotors. Of course they don't have any right now and have to order them.

    The headlight is in but I'm waiting for the new rotors now and will get both done in one visit.

    I'll let you know how it goes...
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    What is a VSU valve? I've not heard of that. I also think I know what you are talking about with the front "pipes" but correct me if I am wrong. You are looking at the exhaust manifold right? There is a backing plate that is about 1/2" thick if I remember correctly. If that is the part you are talking about, it is made of cast iron, similar to an old style frying pan. Like a frying pan, it will develop a layer of surface oxidation but it wont ruin the part.

    Take him up on his offer to inspect other cars. He might be right.

    Oh and keep on them to make sure the rotors are replaced. It sounds like you are on the right track so far.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    I have owned a lot of cars, and some had some light rust on exhaust parts and other unfinished steel parts when new (Ford Oldsmobile etc). But Camry is touted as a super finished and reliable car, and I don't believe it should exhibit that type of cosmetic eyesores.

    I have had a new 2001 Mazda Millenia for 8 months now, and after reading these complaints about rust, I decided to check it for this type of problem. I can't speak for all MM's, but after 8 months there is NO sign of any rust, surface or otherwise under the hood of my car. I think it is a major oversight on the part of Toyota to overlook that type of problem. It would be enough to stop me from buying one, although it was on my short list when I bought my MM. They were also WAY to proud of Camry's pricewise.

    I have no doubt Camry is an excellent car, or I would not have test driven them. But the types of complaints I am reading here give me concern about their quality control.

    Please, no offense intended. This is just my personal thoughts on the subject.
  • ahossaahossa Member Posts: 152
    I'm Happy to hear they are making an effort to correct these problems.The rust that you speak of is normal.Enjoy your car.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Curious. So even though surface rust on the exhaust manifold is not a reliability, longevity or comfort issue, you still call its existence a "problem." Generally a "problem" is something that affects the function or comfort of a car. Would you say manufacturers of cast iron skillets have a "problem" because of the seasoning that happens after a few uses? Its the exact same concept.
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    It is a "problem" of perceived quality. Stainless steel exhausts will not rust. That says to me that Camry does not have a stainless steel, or other high quality exhaust system.

    I have never paid close to $30000 for a skillet. Cast iron or any other type. But I have bought stainless steel skillets and knives for very little. The reason for a cast iron skillet is heat distribution around the food. The exhaust on a car needs high heat dissapation. High carbon steel does not provide that property any better than metals that will not rust.

    I don't know what other components in the Camry are showing rust, but plated and galvanized bolts would not show rust when new. I would therefore conclude that Camrys use unfinished/unplated steel components rather than pay for a better quality part.

    While some of these perceived "problems" may not shorten the life of the vehicle, a stainless steel exhaust system will definitely outlast a carbon steel one.

    To me it shows an oversight in quality control of the Camry. The $30000 full boat Camry's are far from economy cars, and I think should exhibit that in the materials used to build them.

    All that said, I realize that all cars will after awhile show some surface rust on such parts as brake components. But the brakes are constantly exposed to water and weather, not protected under the hood where humidity is probably the only moisture they will encounter.
  • greg130greg130 Member Posts: 4
    Cliffy1 the rust thats on a new part on a new car may or may not be considered a problem, it was described as that along with the other true problems such as the brakes and headlight at the time of my first posting and was carried on in the last posts as that.

    If you don't think it should be labeled a problem than fine. If you want to compare new parts on a new car that rusts from day one to that of a cast iron frying pan fine. To me it's all a problem that I have to deal with and that's the problem.

    OK, I just went out to the garage and popped the hood on the V6 Highlander and the front pipe gasket is different on this engine but I do see what you mean about the seasoning of a frying pan, the highlanders part is turning black but is not rusty it's black the Camry's is not like that it has rust on it.
    As far as your question what is a VSU valve it could be a VSV valve for all I know it was written down on a sheet of paper by the dealer's service manager the night I had my brakes replaced and it could be either or since I wasn't sure of the last letter he wrote down was a ' U ' or a ' V '. Either way it's in the back right hand side on top of the engine if your looking at the engine.
  • hallagehallage Member Posts: 24
    We rented a cloth-seat Camry LE for a day and the seat bottom seemed hard. Will the leather seats be any softer? Any other comments on driver's seat comfort. I know George00 hates his seat.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...but waited, and now I see Steve Clifford [aka Cliffy] is taking a lot of heat, so let me say once again that there are untreated, unpainted surfaces on exhaust and other engine parts that are going to oxidize and look rusty. It is indeed only on the surface, and does not affect function, but if you are absolutely determined to believe otherwise, then it is definitely a "problem" and that's that.

    All of our cars, including Mercedes, BMWs, Toyotas, and Hondas, have such areas. The bulk of the exhaust is stainless steel, but many connectors are just iron-based pot metal, and these are going to develop a surface rust very quickly, especially if subjected to rain or a heavy car wash [high pressure spray from underneath the car]. I don't know what the dealer is going to do to satisfy this customer - I already commented that the brake rotor repair was unsatisfactory, and I see that they have agreed.

    If, at the end of the day, you have a car that runs well and feels competent on the road, and they have replaced the rotors and taken care of the headlight, I'd feel satisfied. My guess is that somebody ran this car through the car wash after the brakes had gotten hot, and this is always a no-no. Beyond that, I guess I'd move on, but that's just my opinion...
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    No pressure intended on cliffy or anyone else. They don't build the cars, only sell them. Some of us are a lot more picky about appearance than others, and are the ones who are bothered by rust. Being 60 and having owned about 20 cars I am well aware of surface rust. I am also aware there are alternative materials as well as paints that take care of that appearance problem. I bought black hi-temp spray paint and painted the muffler on my MM, so you can see how picky I am. That could also be done by Camry owners to cover the rust.

    There are also some who never even wash their cars, and to them the rust would be of no importance. Anyway, I don't want to engage in a battle about Camry's. I don't even own one. As I said, I am sure they are excellent cars, I think though they could avoid the surface rust problems if they wanted to.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...I'm 57, just purchased car #48, and before this discussion, would have considered myself the most "picky" owner on the planet [e.g. no car of ours EVER gets put away for the night dirty, whether at home or on a road trip]. My endlessly patient and understanding spouse certainly thinks I'm in a class by myself, but clearly not...
  • fwatsonfwatson Member Posts: 639
    I am only that picky with my own car. I do the maintenance and PM on my wifes car, and wash it about every other week. But as far as it being put away dirty, it would be a lost battle.

    I tell her it looks like a traveling snack bar because there are always crumbs etc in it.

    As long as mine looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor, I am happy. :)
  • paul29paul29 Member Posts: 178
    Has anybody noticed the rear shelf vibrating with 1 inch or more of verticle motion and creating a loud booming sound when the rear windows are down , at about 45 to 60 mph on a 2002 Camry LE ? Just got this car on Wednesday and was trying things out. Quite amazing to watch in the rear view mirror.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Thats a defect. Certainly does not happen in our 02 LE, or any other vehicle we have ever had. It should be fixable under warranty On another note..... we averaged 27.6 MPG on our last tank, a good mix of city and highway, with a just a bit more highway than city. This car consistenly has returned 25MPG since we bought it, and now with about 7500miles on the odo, I'd say its well broken in, this is our best milage to date.
    ~alpha
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I don't know about the rear deck movement, but the booming sound is pretty simple. A lot of new cars do this. What you are hearing is wind buffeting. It can be cured by cracking one or more of the other windows in the car.
  • shearwatershearwater Member Posts: 3
    I have more of a "process" question: I'm interested in the XLE V6 with option packages 7 & 9 (VSC/traction control and the navi). According to a salesman at a New York City area dealership, Toyota isn't currently building them in that configuration and there aren't any in my area. Assuming that's true, I gather that he could either cast a wider net and try to find the car in the color I want or just order it from the factory. In either case, is it typical to negotiate the final price and put some deposit down ($500? more/less) and when the car arrives, check it out and pay the balance/discuss financing? I would probably want to ensure that the deposit would be returned if the car doesn't show up within a reasonable time.

    Thanks for helping this rookie--the board has been a valuable resource.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    You've got the right idea. It is fairly normal to take a deposit on an order. Generally, the deposit is refundable if the car does not arrive in a specified time-frame or if it comes without the equipment you requested. On a car like the Camry that is domestically built, figure 4 to 6 weeks to get it.
  • shearwatershearwater Member Posts: 3
    Thanks very much for your response, Cliffy. I assume that I would talk to the F&I guy when the car comes in from the factory--the 7/75 Platinum extended warranty is listed on the Toyota site at $1150--do you have a sense of what a fair target price should be? Thanks again.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Figure $875 as a pretty good deal. You might get a few more buck off, but that is a decent number as long as it is the genuine Platinum warranty with $0 deductible.
  • paul29paul29 Member Posts: 178
    The difference between the 02 Camry and any other car I now have or had in the last few years is that the Camry rear windows go all the way down. When I put the front window down on a moderate day, I also put the same side rear down about halfway to eliminate most of the buffeting at the front window, I expected the rear to stop about 2/3 way down. Having the rears go all the way down is a plus for the Camry. It doesn't matter if the fronts are cracked open or not , the booming is severe. Try at 70mph for the full effect. Anyway this situation is easy to avoid ,once known , and is just an observation on my part. This car is more than meeting my expectations.
  • logitech1logitech1 Member Posts: 32
    Hi, my friend is about to buy a 95 camry V6 LE. do you guys know if there is any bad stories about this model? or anything I should pay more attention to? the car is 200K kilometer (or 125000 miles) now. I am in Canada. Thanks
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Is it EVEN possible for me to be able to get a Camry LE I4 or SE I4 with pkg. 3 and manual transmission? I have looked at the local dealership's website in my area, and it's not even possible for them to order me a SE I4 with Manual transmission, and it's suppose to be the SPORTY MODEL? I live in South Carolina btw. I am, however, able to order a Camry LE with manual transmission, but I cannot get Pkg. 3. Am I just not able to get the Camry SE with Pkg. 3, ABS, side airbags, guards, and visor with manual transmission, or can I go out of the region and order one? I know mudguards are only sold in my region.
  • canadatwocanadatwo Member Posts: 198
    Looking at buying a 1998-2000 V6 Camry.

    Does it require Premium Fuel?

    How does it run on 97 octane?
  • sbell4sbell4 Member Posts: 446
    Yes, you can get a 4cyl 5spd SE with package 3. If the factory accepts the order you could have your vehicle within 30-45 days. You are correct that the southeast didn't buy any 5 spd 4cyl Camry SE this month and only had a little over 1% last month. If the factory doesn't accept the order you would need to go out of region to see if there are any or wait for the 03 model.
  • 8u6hfd8u6hfd Member Posts: 1,391
    The V6 engined Camry will only benefit from premium fuel. 97 octane is overkill.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I have never seen 97 Octane here in NJ. I have seen as high as 94, but never 97. Wow. Technology is really coming along.
    ~alpha
  • canadatwocanadatwo Member Posts: 198
    Yes, how does the 98-00 V-6 Camry run on 87 octane?
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Sbell is correct. If it is listed in the brochure, it is an available package--if it is ordered correctly. A dealer must first have the basic vehicle allocated to them and then they can alter the build configuration. If the SE region isn't getting the right model in the first place, they can't do anything about it.
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    Also, for the last month or two, I have seen NO SE models on the lot, not 1! What's up with that? I see more XLE models than SE models. The LE is too spartan for me I guess, I'd have to either have the SE, for it's sportiness, or the XLE for it's luxuriousness.

    I could easily get a XLE with automatic transmission, but finding a SE with manual would mean driving out of my region!

    Also, why does the SE region have so many tacted-on accessories. At the dealer in my area, you almost always end up getting a Camry with either splash guards, visors, auto mirrors, and other accessories. They also add an extra fee to the price. Can anyone explain this to me.
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    I've written too many explanations about this over the years [the most recent in this forum many moons/posts back] to say it all again.

    To summarize: Toyota does not own the distribution rights to its own cars in the SE region. The people who do believe that they can do anything they want, and supply/demand pretty much allows them to do just that. So, you get the behaviors that bother everyone, all of which are there to do just one thing: squeeze somewhere between $100 and $500 out of each wholesale transaction in this region. If you do the math, it doesn't take long to see why they have no intention of giving up this money machine - Toyota has tried at various times to buy them out, but the price is too high.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    I am no fan of SET, but this particular case isn't something to pummel them over. It could just as easily happen anywhere. Each distribution region tells Toyota what they want for their market area. Sometimes, they don't order specific models because they think there isn't enough demand. Sometimes they are wrong.

    Now, there is a system in place in every region except SET where dealers can trade allocated units to other regions. SET doesn't participate in that system though. Even in regions that have this, it is rarely done because the system is very new and still has some bugs.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    Why do cars in the SE region get special options, like leather on some models that the rest of the US can't have. What's with the two tone painting? I saw a Corolla in Florida with two tone painting it UGLY!
  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Member Posts: 934
    Be carefull with the warranties...they may try to throw things in as freebies which inflate the price. I am looking at a 7/75 Platinum with zero deductible. Cliffy1 said a good price is about $675. Well they started me off at $1075 but included 3 free oil changes, an inspection $100 a day expenses when broken down 150 miles from home and a guaranteed refund of the $1075 if I never USED the contract. Upon further investigation I determined that:

    1) The Platinum already comes with the $100 a day
    2) to get the refund I must keep the car for the entire warranty period and NEVER submit a claim.

    3) Claims must be sumbitted at the time the car is repaired. You can not not keep receipts and get reimbursed later if it becomes economical to do so.

    To me this was no deal. They dropped the price to the low 8's. I told them I might get a price from another dealer for just the Platinum warranty with no 'freebies' and in fact had an internet price of $675. They were not thrilled but hey, I got the car from them based on an internet offer. I also told them I would not make a decsion that day and wanted some time to think about it. They quickly backed off, said they'd match the $675 offer when I was ready and let me go on my way. We'll see when it comes time to purchase if they honor their offer.

    Remmeber, just as you can shop/purchase the car via the internet, as I did with my car, you can also shop your contract via the internet...or buy the darn thing at ANY Toyota dealer for that matter. In fact, you may want to email Cliffy1 directly for more warranty details. (He obviously can not solicit here due to Townhall rules but he DOES work at a Toyota dealership and in theory could sell you a warranty and he DOES have a wealth of free information to offer)

    Good Luck!
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    The answer is in my previous post: This is an independent operation protected by the inviolate nature of US franchise laws. As long as they don't violate their franchise agreement with Toyota, they can do whatever they please.

    If the market will bear having silver wing hood ornaments on every Toyota, then they are free to add same to every car and charge whatever they want. The marketplace is free to shop and purchase elsewhere, and some savvy [and determined] Toyota retail customers do just that. It's too bad that Toyota the corporation has to shoulder most of the blame for this set of business practices, but that's partly their own fault for letting it evolve this way.

    One of these days, one of the SE principals will decide to take Toyota's latest offer, and ride off into the Bahamas sunset, and this whole business will come to a welcome conclusion. Until then, you have to accept the idea that in the SE region, these guys are the only way for a Toyota dealer to get their hands on product...so it goes on...
  • i_luv_toyotai_luv_toyota Member Posts: 350
    I recall seeing a 96-97 Corolla up here in Connecticut at my workplace that was 2-tone Gold/Grey (yep, that's right, Gold over Grey). That thing was hideous. If thats what Toyota SouthEast is putting out, they can keep 'em!

    I haven't seen it in a while, maybe it went back down to Florida or whatever states SE Toyota operates in.
  • cajun626cajun626 Member Posts: 54
    I'm leanding towards purchasing a 2002 Camry. Is the Toyo Guard Protection Group worth the $300-400?
  • shearwatershearwater Member Posts: 3
    Thanks very much for the heads up--actually, Cliffy said that $875 was a fair price for the 7/75 Platinum w/o deductible, so your quote for $675 seems quite good. I think he had mentioned in an earlier post that a $300-400 profit was fair for this product, so I would guess that dealer cost was around 500 bucks (it lists for $1150 retail). I'll certainly try to get close to that number at the dealership or else just shop around and get it elsewhere.

    Thanks again.
  • sbell4sbell4 Member Posts: 446
    Again I repeat, SE Toyota is a distributor that buys Toyota vehicles in massive quanities at a time to supply to 164 independant dealers. The vehicles are allocated from that pool and the DEALERS ARE THE ONES THAT SAY WHAT ACCESSORIES ARE ADDED TO THEIR CARS NOT SE TOYOTA. If you don't want an accessory do not get it. If you want some of the options that are available to customize your new Toyota, get it. It really is that simple. What about the $565.00 admin fee? It is a legit fee but that is all that is added to the invoice, there are not any other TDA or advertising fees so it comes out about the same all throughout the country when it is all said and done. Is SET going anywhere? No, they just resigned another 20 year contract with the Jacksonville port in the past few months so I think they are planning to hang around awhile.

    For the record, I work for a Toyota dealership not SE Toyota but I would not consider working outside of SET because of the benefits our customers and I receive from SET.

    You guys only here the negative comments about this region, not many people comment when 2002 Camry has 2.9% intrest through SE Toyota Finance or when this region has cash back from the DISTRIBUTOR in addition to the factory or when people come in droves to this region to get vehicles they can't find anywhere else. All this is done at the highest customer satisfaction scores in the nation.

    I'm off my soapbox now, Thank you, I feel much better now. ( I could go on for hours about this because people really have no idea what SET does for their customers and its employees)
  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Member Posts: 934
    You want a fair price or a good one. I believe at $675 they are still making about $200. Take my advise and email CLIFFY1 for a quote from hs dealership and any other questions you might have!!!!
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    Do y'all want some insider information on why some dealers do what they do? Allow me to explain how your finance guy is paid. There are a variety of ways his pay plan can be set up, but most of them rely on a PVR number. PVR stands for "per vehicle retailed" and means that the F&I guy is expected to add a certain dollar amount to each deal he touches. If his PVR is too low, his pay suffers. Average PVR should be about $1000 if they guy settles both new and used car deals and about $500 if he does new cars only.

    There are several things that a F&I guy can make money on. Rate is a big one but not normally with good credit customers. The rough credit cases are the ones that create the most work and therefore, pay a higher mark-up on the rate. They (actually, we since I am one) also make money on GAP policies, credit life and disability policies and pre-paid maintenance programs. We also make money on warranties.

    If a customer wishes to purchase a warranty, we can price it at whatever we wish (unless it is financed at which point, we are capped at $2000). In most cases, even on finance deals, dealers try to stick with Toyota's MSRP price or a bit less. Once the profit drops below $400, it isn't worth bothering with. It just drops the PVR too much.

    Now in the case of buying from another dealership, things change. It is no longer a retail deal. Any money generated is "found money." It just adds to the F&I guy's numbers without creating another retail deal. This is why you can sometimes negotiate a better deal from an outside party. At the worst, the outside source can give you a negotiating point with your selling dealer.

    I know this is a whole lot more information than most of you wanted to hear, but it may help some of you understand what is happening "in the box."
  • tiger8tiger8 Member Posts: 120
    Thanks for the insiders' info. You're doing a huge service to all the people out there looking for extrended warranties, etc.
  • mimi919mimi919 Member Posts: 85
    I would like to thank you for your open post #3799
    as there was a lot of valuable information in that post that most readers in here would have no other way of obtaining that important knowledge giving us all a much better understanding of the total process of a new car transaction.
    Thanks to one of your previous posts I was able to purchase the 100,000 mile platinum 0 deductable warranty a little less then half the price I was quoted by another Toyota dealership.
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