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Comments
I would worry less about the surface rust on iron-based engine components, and a lot more about why those brake rotors were not replaced. They should have been...I would have insisted on it and not accepted turning the existing rotors.
This means that they can't be turned again, and thus will have to be replaced [out of warranty, of course, several years from now] before they would have been otherwise.
The Camry is a different story. I talked to the dealer today and they are not going to replace the rusty parts. They keep insisting that it's normal its not going to be a problem and they could show me other new engines with the same rusty parts too.
Well I don't think it's normal and I don't like it but what can I do, they won't take back the car, I tried, I asked for a swap to a Japanese made Camry and they said no they don't do that, that they would fix everything but yet won't replace rusty parts. So I guess they're not fixing everything.
I did request that all four rotors be replaced with new one's since I paid for new ones, not cut ones. I'm awaiting an answer as to if and when I can bring it in to have it done.
This is what you would expect from the big three cars not from Toyota. That's why everyone reading this is looking here They're are tired of it. I was tired of replacing transmisions in my minivan. I was tired of seeing the paint on my truck peel right off since they didn't put enough paint on it, thats why we buy Japanese cars cause were tired of giving all our money back to the dealer for repairs, and paying for poor quality, but I guess that's not true any more at least for me.
I can only speak about my experience so far so I'm sure this is an isolated case and not all Camrys are going to need a brake job, but if your in the market for one make sure you check out the brakes and other problems listed on this site before buying.
These things are highly personal - you've read a number of comments that tell you that different people have different reactions to the seat shape that Toyota has chosen.
Before settling on our '03 Corolla, we rented for two days to make sure I could fit and be comfortable - this is another car that has generated some comments, in this case it has to do with the driving position and location of the dead pedal, but the point is the same: try it first, and not just for 20 minutes on the freeway.
All of the Toyota dealers in our area have rental cars available, and at pretty reasonable rates. Take advantage.
Next, the rusted bolts is normal and has been for years. I know the exact ones you are talking about because I had to discuss this way back in '94 with some customers. The "rust" is actually little more than surface oxidation. It will not get any worse. I promise.
Heres what the invoice says.
CAUSE: FRONT ROTORS OUT OF ROUND
PARTS: REPLACED FRONT PADS - AND GRINDED ROTORS
CAUSE: ROTORS OUT OF ROUND
PARTS: REGRINDED REAR ROTORS
Today I called the dealer and talked to the service director who said they were going to fix everything except the rusty parts, and I do mean parts not rusty bolts.
Cliffy1 the parts are the VSU valve and the front pipe gasket which is a sheet of metal not bolts.
As far as surface oxidation that may be true on the VSU valve but not on the front pipe gasket its rusty.
He also said he would show me other Camry's with the same rusty parts. Which dosen't seem right to me.
I told him I want them to put new rotors on instead of these cut ones. He said he couldn't believe they did that ( turn the rotors ) and that if he new about it they would have put new rotors on instead. So it sounds like I'm getting new rotors. Of course they don't have any right now and have to order them.
The headlight is in but I'm waiting for the new rotors now and will get both done in one visit.
I'll let you know how it goes...
Take him up on his offer to inspect other cars. He might be right.
Oh and keep on them to make sure the rotors are replaced. It sounds like you are on the right track so far.
I have had a new 2001 Mazda Millenia for 8 months now, and after reading these complaints about rust, I decided to check it for this type of problem. I can't speak for all MM's, but after 8 months there is NO sign of any rust, surface or otherwise under the hood of my car. I think it is a major oversight on the part of Toyota to overlook that type of problem. It would be enough to stop me from buying one, although it was on my short list when I bought my MM. They were also WAY to proud of Camry's pricewise.
I have no doubt Camry is an excellent car, or I would not have test driven them. But the types of complaints I am reading here give me concern about their quality control.
Please, no offense intended. This is just my personal thoughts on the subject.
I have never paid close to $30000 for a skillet. Cast iron or any other type. But I have bought stainless steel skillets and knives for very little. The reason for a cast iron skillet is heat distribution around the food. The exhaust on a car needs high heat dissapation. High carbon steel does not provide that property any better than metals that will not rust.
I don't know what other components in the Camry are showing rust, but plated and galvanized bolts would not show rust when new. I would therefore conclude that Camrys use unfinished/unplated steel components rather than pay for a better quality part.
While some of these perceived "problems" may not shorten the life of the vehicle, a stainless steel exhaust system will definitely outlast a carbon steel one.
To me it shows an oversight in quality control of the Camry. The $30000 full boat Camry's are far from economy cars, and I think should exhibit that in the materials used to build them.
All that said, I realize that all cars will after awhile show some surface rust on such parts as brake components. But the brakes are constantly exposed to water and weather, not protected under the hood where humidity is probably the only moisture they will encounter.
If you don't think it should be labeled a problem than fine. If you want to compare new parts on a new car that rusts from day one to that of a cast iron frying pan fine. To me it's all a problem that I have to deal with and that's the problem.
OK, I just went out to the garage and popped the hood on the V6 Highlander and the front pipe gasket is different on this engine but I do see what you mean about the seasoning of a frying pan, the highlanders part is turning black but is not rusty it's black the Camry's is not like that it has rust on it.
As far as your question what is a VSU valve it could be a VSV valve for all I know it was written down on a sheet of paper by the dealer's service manager the night I had my brakes replaced and it could be either or since I wasn't sure of the last letter he wrote down was a ' U ' or a ' V '. Either way it's in the back right hand side on top of the engine if your looking at the engine.
All of our cars, including Mercedes, BMWs, Toyotas, and Hondas, have such areas. The bulk of the exhaust is stainless steel, but many connectors are just iron-based pot metal, and these are going to develop a surface rust very quickly, especially if subjected to rain or a heavy car wash [high pressure spray from underneath the car]. I don't know what the dealer is going to do to satisfy this customer - I already commented that the brake rotor repair was unsatisfactory, and I see that they have agreed.
If, at the end of the day, you have a car that runs well and feels competent on the road, and they have replaced the rotors and taken care of the headlight, I'd feel satisfied. My guess is that somebody ran this car through the car wash after the brakes had gotten hot, and this is always a no-no. Beyond that, I guess I'd move on, but that's just my opinion...
There are also some who never even wash their cars, and to them the rust would be of no importance. Anyway, I don't want to engage in a battle about Camry's. I don't even own one. As I said, I am sure they are excellent cars, I think though they could avoid the surface rust problems if they wanted to.
I tell her it looks like a traveling snack bar because there are always crumbs etc in it.
As long as mine looks like it just rolled off the showroom floor, I am happy.
~alpha
Thanks for helping this rookie--the board has been a valuable resource.
Does it require Premium Fuel?
How does it run on 97 octane?
~alpha
I could easily get a XLE with automatic transmission, but finding a SE with manual would mean driving out of my region!
Also, why does the SE region have so many tacted-on accessories. At the dealer in my area, you almost always end up getting a Camry with either splash guards, visors, auto mirrors, and other accessories. They also add an extra fee to the price. Can anyone explain this to me.
To summarize: Toyota does not own the distribution rights to its own cars in the SE region. The people who do believe that they can do anything they want, and supply/demand pretty much allows them to do just that. So, you get the behaviors that bother everyone, all of which are there to do just one thing: squeeze somewhere between $100 and $500 out of each wholesale transaction in this region. If you do the math, it doesn't take long to see why they have no intention of giving up this money machine - Toyota has tried at various times to buy them out, but the price is too high.
Now, there is a system in place in every region except SET where dealers can trade allocated units to other regions. SET doesn't participate in that system though. Even in regions that have this, it is rarely done because the system is very new and still has some bugs.
1) The Platinum already comes with the $100 a day
2) to get the refund I must keep the car for the entire warranty period and NEVER submit a claim.
3) Claims must be sumbitted at the time the car is repaired. You can not not keep receipts and get reimbursed later if it becomes economical to do so.
To me this was no deal. They dropped the price to the low 8's. I told them I might get a price from another dealer for just the Platinum warranty with no 'freebies' and in fact had an internet price of $675. They were not thrilled but hey, I got the car from them based on an internet offer. I also told them I would not make a decsion that day and wanted some time to think about it. They quickly backed off, said they'd match the $675 offer when I was ready and let me go on my way. We'll see when it comes time to purchase if they honor their offer.
Remmeber, just as you can shop/purchase the car via the internet, as I did with my car, you can also shop your contract via the internet...or buy the darn thing at ANY Toyota dealer for that matter. In fact, you may want to email Cliffy1 directly for more warranty details. (He obviously can not solicit here due to Townhall rules but he DOES work at a Toyota dealership and in theory could sell you a warranty and he DOES have a wealth of free information to offer)
Good Luck!
If the market will bear having silver wing hood ornaments on every Toyota, then they are free to add same to every car and charge whatever they want. The marketplace is free to shop and purchase elsewhere, and some savvy [and determined] Toyota retail customers do just that. It's too bad that Toyota the corporation has to shoulder most of the blame for this set of business practices, but that's partly their own fault for letting it evolve this way.
One of these days, one of the SE principals will decide to take Toyota's latest offer, and ride off into the Bahamas sunset, and this whole business will come to a welcome conclusion. Until then, you have to accept the idea that in the SE region, these guys are the only way for a Toyota dealer to get their hands on product...so it goes on...
I haven't seen it in a while, maybe it went back down to Florida or whatever states SE Toyota operates in.
Thanks again.
For the record, I work for a Toyota dealership not SE Toyota but I would not consider working outside of SET because of the benefits our customers and I receive from SET.
You guys only here the negative comments about this region, not many people comment when 2002 Camry has 2.9% intrest through SE Toyota Finance or when this region has cash back from the DISTRIBUTOR in addition to the factory or when people come in droves to this region to get vehicles they can't find anywhere else. All this is done at the highest customer satisfaction scores in the nation.
I'm off my soapbox now, Thank you, I feel much better now. ( I could go on for hours about this because people really have no idea what SET does for their customers and its employees)
There are several things that a F&I guy can make money on. Rate is a big one but not normally with good credit customers. The rough credit cases are the ones that create the most work and therefore, pay a higher mark-up on the rate. They (actually, we since I am one) also make money on GAP policies, credit life and disability policies and pre-paid maintenance programs. We also make money on warranties.
If a customer wishes to purchase a warranty, we can price it at whatever we wish (unless it is financed at which point, we are capped at $2000). In most cases, even on finance deals, dealers try to stick with Toyota's MSRP price or a bit less. Once the profit drops below $400, it isn't worth bothering with. It just drops the PVR too much.
Now in the case of buying from another dealership, things change. It is no longer a retail deal. Any money generated is "found money." It just adds to the F&I guy's numbers without creating another retail deal. This is why you can sometimes negotiate a better deal from an outside party. At the worst, the outside source can give you a negotiating point with your selling dealer.
I know this is a whole lot more information than most of you wanted to hear, but it may help some of you understand what is happening "in the box."
as there was a lot of valuable information in that post that most readers in here would have no other way of obtaining that important knowledge giving us all a much better understanding of the total process of a new car transaction.
Thanks to one of your previous posts I was able to purchase the 100,000 mile platinum 0 deductable warranty a little less then half the price I was quoted by another Toyota dealership.