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Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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Comments

  • canccanc Member Posts: 715
    I don't know why people here believe that a Japanese built Camry is better than a North American built Camry. I personally think there's very little difference between the two. There's a common misperception on these boards that for some reason, factory workers here aren't as efficient or as meticulous when it comes to making a car. The point is, it's a Toyota factory, regardless of WHERE it is. I'm not an industry analyst, but a careful consumer, and I know Toyota to build cars under very strict tolerances, and they also have a way of doing things that are different from any other company. Here's an example: A few years ago, I remember reading an article in Detroit News (you might find it in www.detnews.com's archives) about the Toyota plant in Kentucky, and how everything in the plant is well-thought of without having to use multimillion dollar improvements. They also interviewed this woman who worked on the assembly line, and she explained how she worked in a group of three people, and that one of them was their leader. The leader was more experienced than the others, and was responsible to make sure the assembly line went smoothly. This woman went on to say at one point that she had to screw in a bolt somewhere on the car. She proceeded to do so at first, but was stopped in the process by her team leader. "This is not the way you do it", the team leader said, and proceeded to show the lady on how to screw the bolt in "the Toyota way". There are even wrenches and other tools in the plant that have built-in microchips that tell workers when there is sufficient torque on the bolt or screw.

    Sorry for the rant, but in short, with so much electronic equipment in auto plants today, there is so little human involvement that it makes the whole argument of "oh but my Camry is better than your Camry because it was built in Japan" sound a bit insignificant to me.

    And don't get me started on Toyota cars as being not as good as they were 10 years ago.
  • habitat1habitat1 Member Posts: 4,282
    Why has Mercedes had a horrible time getting fit and finish up to MB standards with their ML320/430 built in the States? And why has BMW acknowledged similar problems with their US built Z3's?

    Having personally worked as an executive in two US based Fortune 500 multinational corporations, I have first hand knowledge about how difficult it can be to maintain quality standards in a foreign environment where work ethics, culture and labor unions are of a different breed than the home country. Toyota has done an excellent job. But they aren't making Lexuses here, are they?
  • jrct9454jrct9454 Member Posts: 2,363
    ...they will be making Lexuses here very soon [ES and RX].


    After this post, I'm basically done using any more keyboard time on this topic. Like Canc's post, above, I've got an AWFUL LOT of personal experience with Toyota products - we've owned 12 of them in the last 20 years - equally divided between imports and domestically produced cars. There simply isn't any difference worth talking about.


    And I too have no special nostalgia for some previous generation Camrys - we've owned multiple examples of everything from the 2nd gen on, and each time they redesign the car, it gets better, not worse. All this pining for the '92 gen [the 3rd gen car] goes right by me. Our '92 was certainly not a better car than the '97 or the '02.


    Finally, as a long-time Mercedes owner [14 of them since 1968], I can tell you that the fiasco with the ML at the Alabama plant illustrates PRECISELY the point some of us are making about Toyota and Honda. The problem was and is MANAGEMENT. This is why VW and BMW and MB cannot duplicate their quality in American plants, but the Japanese do so without batting an eye. Toyota and Honda have a MANAGEMENT SYSTEM that puts quality and consistency on the front burner from minute one, and is transportable to any place in the civilized world. One of the core values of that system is that they work intensively with their suppliers about quality and consistency. They jump on supplier problems quickly, and work WITH them to solve problems - the Germans stick with suppliers who are producing crap for subassemblies long after they should be fired. And the Germans are far too sloppy in picking their suppliers for their American plants in the first place.


    I say again, believe whatever you want on this topic. One of these days, you will have to search long and hard to find any Toyota product under $50,000 that is made anywhere else but right here. And that includes the sacred Lexus brand...

  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Actually, this entire conversation would be much better placed on our News and Views board. Check out the existing discussions - if a suitable subject is not found, a new one can be created.

    Let's get back to the specific sedan known as a Toyota Camry. :)

    Thanks.
  • rubicon52rubicon52 Member Posts: 191
    I have a V-6 Camry and V-6 Solara (3.0L) because at the time I bought them, the V-6 was significantly more powerful and smoother than the 2.2L four. I recently drove a new Camry with the new 2.4L four and 5 speed transmission. I was surprised at how smooth and powerful the new four cylinder is. Of course, the V-6s both have automatic transmissions so its not strictly an apples to apples comparison. I think the new 2.4L really closes some of the performance gap with the V-6.
  • billmahanbillmahan Member Posts: 68
    Thanks for the info on the CV boots. Sure wish my dealership had made that a little more clear when I asked him how much it was going to cost to fix the power steering. Maybe the defibrillator would have not been necessary!

    The $175 was parts and labor to fix both left and right hood shocks. If you look at the 94 XLE, the shocks appear to be attached in a less-than-straightforward way. At least they explained that's why the labor was a good part of the $175 total, although I don't remember how much.

    As far as the CV boots, again thanks for the explanation. On the written estimate it shows $55 each and 4 hours labor. Total parts & labor shows $476. So if that is a quantity of 4, that means $256 is labor. At 4 hours that is close to $65 per hour for labor. Is that a typical rate per hour at a Toyota dealership? Sure seems high to me. I think my GMC dealership charges about $45 per hour for labor.

    TomGreen: From what you are saying, it sounds like I may be getting the split CV boots. Does that appear the same to you? 4 at $55 each? If so, I'll see what they want for the full boots.

    The quote on the Power Steering Rack is $959 for parts, 4 hours labor, total is $1,215. That would also be close to $65 per hour for labor.

    I know all of these posts should probably be over in Care and Maintenance, so before I get in trouble with our fine host, I'll make this the last post on the topic!
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    be two CV boots - one for each side at the front.

    In California where I am, $80-90 per hour is more the going rate for labor at dealerships.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • ddfdriveddfdrive Member Posts: 4
    Thanks for the comments. And yes my Celica is the GTS.
    Camry 5 speed was peppy until hitting the speed block at 65 mph. Realize at times you do need to downshift to increase speed. Concern on the speed block at 65 if you are in hiway/interstate condition and needing to pass. Should you have to downshift to 4th to gain speed on a flat road? By the way, I did try this in this test drive - it only increased engine noise and still did not push needle above 65mph. Could there be a maintenance problem with this one car, or is this common... any ideas?
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Test drive another Camry and then test drive the Accord to see if it's powerband is more to your liking.
  • edmund2460edmund2460 Member Posts: 293
    Somebody said this was a problem with 'older' Camry's. Can you clarify? What years, typically?. Of all the cars I've owned, domestic and foreign, I have only had to do this on a Ford Taurus at around 90K. This is a low probability event in my opinion and I'm surprised that a lot of Camry's might have them.
  • nippononlynippononly Member Posts: 12,555
    I heard that this happened sometimes to 80's cressidas, because of the weight of the vehicle - I had a friend who was a Toyota mechanic, and he had replaced a few of those.

    Overall, when Toyota first brought in power rack-and-pinion steering, it was not as heavy duty as it needed to be on some of the models, at least as it was explained to me.

    They had this fixed by the mid-80's, and the '83 celica I just sold had only just begun to get sloppy in the rack, at 250K. The other post was the first I heard that this problem was particularly bad in camrys.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • tomgreen1000tomgreen1000 Member Posts: 18
    Bill,

    4 CV boots/joints is correct. There is an inner and outer boot/joint on each side of the front suspension.

    I am not sure what I said that made you think that I suspected you were being quoted a price for the split boots. I really am not sure what a good price quote would be. I was just commenting that if you need CV boots, make sure you are getting full boots and make sure they inspect the joints well.

    Tom
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    Test drive another Camry. The one I drove zipped up to 80 with no problem, and had plenty left. Top speed should be near 130.
  • jimxojimxo Member Posts: 423
    I think Camry will edge out Accord but there's still a 21 days left.

    Better go get your Camry
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Member Posts: 932
    Go Camry! The Toyotathon should help sales over the Accord.
  • rubicon52rubicon52 Member Posts: 191
    Remember that with a automatic, when you really depress the accelerator to pass, the transmission normally downshifts to provide better acceleration. You should be doing the same thing with your manual transmission. If you're leaving it in 5th and trying to pass the acceleration won't be great.

    Consumer Reports measures sort of mid range acceleration times (I think it was something like 45-60 mph). I noticed that a V-6 Camry had a faster time than a Porsche Boxster. Someone on an Edmunds forum explained that the Porsche's time was slower probably because the tester simply did not downshift the manual transmission.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    usually perform passing tests in top gear to gauge the efficiency of the gearing... ie... to guage if the automaker has chosen to bias economy or acceleration...
    ~alpha
  • rubicon52rubicon52 Member Posts: 191
    at mid-range acceleration is that passing is when a car's acceleration is most likely to be needed in the real world. Like everything that CR does, it reflects the practical concerns of the majority of motorists.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    On when we can see a press release, and/or actual release of the VVTi V6 Camry and the 5sp auto? Will the 5sp auto be available with the 4 cylinder cars?
    ~alpha
  • toyotakentoyotaken Member Posts: 897
    The 5sp transmission will only be available for the V6 models. They look like they're being built this month, so I would guess that they will start showing up near the end of the month or early next month.
  • ziondazionda Member Posts: 3
    About three weeks ago I got a $20,455 out-the-door (tax, title and processing fee) price quote for a 2003 Toyota Camry LE with anti-lock brakes, power driver's seat, keyless entry and full set of carpeted floormats. I just noticed today that Toyota is now offering dealer cash back on that model. Does anyone know how much the dealer receives per vehicle in the Northeast? Can I get this vehicle out-the-door for $19,999.99? I'd buy if I could break the 20k psychological price barrier.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    As of November 30 2002 Camry leads Accord by just under 36,000 units! I think the #1 selling car crown is about to go back to Toyota.
    : )
    Mackabee
  • maxamillion1maxamillion1 Member Posts: 1,467
    The Camry will be the best selling Sedan this year.
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    It was the Accord's last year .. whadya expect? The Accord clobbered the Camry in 01 which was the Camrys last year. Expect 03 to be a much closer race than the last 2.
  • carrelman2carrelman2 Member Posts: 80
    Some dealers will offer to sell you a Camry or other Toyota model for over or under invoice price. If you figure out the invoice price using Edmunds pricing you will come up with a price a few hundred dollars less than what the salesperson will show you on a printout from Toyota showing the invoice price and MSRP. The invoice is on a printout showing the dealers incoming inventory. The invoice is not on a seperate sheet.At least that is what I was shown.
  • steveb84steveb84 Member Posts: 187
    The invoice is printed on an individual sheet for each vehicle in inventory, and also available on a printout sheet of all inventory.

    The difference in Edmunds vs. Dealer number is usually the advertising fee. The ad feee varies by region. Sometimes a percentage of base price, sometimes a flat fee.

    Car customers should be thankful there is so much information out there and that dealer will work on small percentages in relation to invoice. If consumers only knew what margins other business dealt in they would be scared at how much they make over cost.
  • austinman7austinman7 Member Posts: 313
    Took delivery last week on a 2003 XLE V6. Very nice car in most respects, with one glaring exception -- a jolting "clunk" when shifted into drive first thing in the morning. Makes an otherwise classy car seem low rent.

    I revisited a brief discussion on this back somewhere earlier on this thread. A dealer told someone this was normal. Someone else advised having a service manager check it out. Can't see anything exceptional about my car, so I'm thinking it really is normal. Bummer.

    Has anyone had any experience at having this item fixed? Any Toyota people on this thread with an answer? Any estimates on how much damage this will cause to the drivetrain over the years?

    Interestingly, the car does seem to have the ability to dampen this effect somewhat. I've experimented with moving it immediately back to neutral, then back into drive again, and the effect is lessened somewhat the second time. Both times, however, the RPMs are high to warm the engine up -- about 1600. So, if it can dampen it the second time, why not the first time.

    Major things I like about this car: Very reponsive engine and drivetrain (after you get by the "clunk.") Love the 6-disc CD changer. Overall sense of quality about the car.

    A couple of dislikes: You can feel the bass from the audio in the armrests--that seems cheap. The bottom of the seat cushion could be an inch or two longer, for better thigh support.

    But, overall, a sweet car to drive, solid feeling, nice to look at -- Aspen Green, with standard alloys. But can someone deliver me from this "clunk"?
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    no sarcasm intended- have you tried adjusting the bass?
    -alpha
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Member Posts: 3,581
    There is no "dealer cash" in the central Atlantic Region (PA, VA, WV, DE and MD). The only incentives are the financing deals. As to whether you can get under $20K OTD depends on the state you live in.
  • austinman7austinman7 Member Posts: 313
    Alpha01 -- Yes, the bass has been adjusted. It gets adjusted back and forth a little, depending on which family member is using the car. I prefer the mid-range, which is the "0" default setting from the factory. Another driver dials it down to -3 or -4 because bass gives him a headache. The vibration in the armrests is, of course, more noticable at the 0 setting than the others. Of course, that's just mid-range -- you can also dial it all the way up to +5, but that's unlikely in my family.

    I appreciate your thought, but don't see where it leads. To eliminate most of the vibration in the armrest, you might dial it all the way down to -5. Then, of course, I don't enjoy the music as much, because I like bass. My solution would be for Toyota structual and audio engineers to get their heads together and try to isolate the speaker movement from the armrest, at least as much as possible. I routinely played more bass on the car I sold (Buick Regal) to get this Camry, with no noticable feel in the armrest.

    This isn't a major deal with me, just something I think Toyota can improve on. The transmission clunk is a much bigger deal.
  • onlyimportsonlyimports Member Posts: 29
    Is the clunk happen when you are on a slopping driveway? That's normal if it doesn't happen on flat surface. My Canadian 2003 Camry SE V6 JBL audio system had a very boomy bass and unclear sound. The radio reception is weak too.Hope they take notice and get a better supplier for their sound system. No songs sound good on this system and it is quite irritating. Otherwise, I this car a lot. About the clunk, most cars I owned do have them when I begin to reverse while parking on my slanting driveway.
  • austinman7austinman7 Member Posts: 313
    onlyimports -- I believe you're talking about a different situation, where you use "Park" as a brake on a sloping driveway, then it's hard to move it out of reverse the next morning and you get an abupt sound when you do it. I'm talking about an entirely different thing -- after you back out of the driveway and then shift into "Drive," that's where you get this "thunk" effect. At that point, I'm on a level street, so I'm not sure that whether I was parked on a slope or not would make any difference. For the record, my driveway has only a very, very slight slope -- it's nearly flat.

    I haven't perceived the problems with the radio and audio system you mention. I'm happy with the reception and the sound of my CDs.
  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Member Posts: 934
    Do you have ABS....sounds like the self check for that system.
  • tomgreen1000tomgreen1000 Member Posts: 18
    Austinman7,

    I have a 2003 LE 4 cyl that has the same noise. Some people expressed surprise that this noise was so apparent, because they could barely hear it on their previous vehicles. However, I find it annoyingly loud. Also it sounds "bad" - hard to think that it is normal and not causing any damage. Here is how I satisfied myself, that my noise was the ABS self test.

    Park on level ground. Turn ignition off. Start car. Lock all doors. Put in reverse. I hear a small noise that sounds like a solenoid. I think this must be part of the automatic locking system. Put into drive. Move forward a few feet. I hear the "clunk". Stop the car. Put in park. Put in reverse. I hear the small solenoid like noise again. Put in drive. Drive forward. I don't hear the "clunk" this time.

    Because the "clunk" only happens one time and only after the first forward movement when starting the car, I decided that it was highly likely to be the ABS self test. This seems reasonable to me, but I am still surprised by how loud this is.

    Tom
  • pinoy44pinoy44 Member Posts: 14
    I am shopping for the 2003 automatic 4 cylinder LE this Christmas and as I surfed the net for reviews and prices, I came accross this report from cars.com.


    Link: http://www.cars.com/news/stories/121702_storya_an.jhtml?aff=chitrib


    They said most of the complaints were from the four-cycles engine. I think this is a typo error. In my opinion, it should only cover models 1997-2001 since 2002 is a different engine (more horses: 133 against 157HP). Unless 2002 model which is also the same as 2003 has the same problem.


    What do you think?

  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    if the there have been 35 reports with 2.5 million cars sold, it doesnt seem to be much of an issue. same thing with the accord seats- low incidence of problem compared to 700,000 sold.

    ~alpha
  • pinoy44pinoy44 Member Posts: 14
    I don't really care too. I'll still go ahead and buy the Camry this Christmas. Mathematicaly, that's a very little number of complaints: 0.0014% !!!
  • xbbusterxbbuster Member Posts: 145
    Check out posts # 4623 to 4626. I had a the same complaint when I left my '02 V6 overnight at the dealer and was there the next morning for a test drive with the service greeter. Into reverse....smooth, then to neutral then to drive with a foot on the brake....clunk. Immediately this "technician" says. " Oh that? Forget about it. They all do that, it's normal, besides you have a five year warranty don't worry." I wrote to Toyota and they called back after a couple of weeks and said somebody would be in contact with me. I'm still waiting. This must be a common problem and and Toyota is just avoiding it with the carmakers' standard response, " It's normal."
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    I'll be the first to admit that Camry quality is not what it once was, but having said that, it is still very high. For everyone that has this clunking sound "problem"- How do you define problem? If it is a sound that occurs only once during the course of operation of a vehicle, poses no mechanical threat or safety issue, does not impair vehicle operation, does not deteriorate ride, increase noise, or whatever, is it really a "problem" or just an "annoyance"? My 2000 Camry has had trim issues, but those were nothing more than annoyances- NOT problems. The car has been like an anvil in areas where it counts.

    I also wonder if reading boards like this increases awareness to issues that some may never had otherwise- when I go back home for the holidays and drive my parents' 2002 Camry, I'll probably, on some level, be LOOKING FOR THIS CLUNK. Then I can join the bad wagon of people who b**ch and moan about things so inconsequential to the quality of life. Just frekin be happy!

    Face it- by nature of this board, we are nitpickers because we love our cars. Nothing is ever perfect. Live with it. If you regret buying your Camry so much, get rid of it. (I'd buy it from you). If anyone can direct me to a website, or alternate boards here, that deal more with automotive news and insider info regarding mainstream cars, please do so.
    ~alpha
  • tomgreen1000tomgreen1000 Member Posts: 18
    IMO, a "clunking" noise is hardly comparable to a trim issue. I know for a fact that trim is merely cosmetic. But I am not sure what the noise is. I agree with you, if it is not a mechanical/safety issue, then it is an annoyance. But it seems as if no one actually knows what this noise is. And most of us are too cynical to believe "it is normal" from the dealer.

    Tom
  • anonymouspostsanonymousposts Member Posts: 3,802
    Honda V6 trannys had a clunk and they ended up having to extend the warranty on over 1 million V6 Accords, TL/CL, and Ody. If noone complained it wouldn't have gotten fixed. I'm sure right after that news story broke Toyota salespeople were all over it if someone came in cross-shopping the Accord and Camry. Now that it's their car they get the "deer caught in the headlights look".
  • austinman7austinman7 Member Posts: 313
    andrelaplume -- Thanks for the idea on the ABS self-check. I've had cars with ABS and have experienced nothing like this before, but you could be right. I'll ask my service manager.

    tomgreen1000 -- I'm getting the clunk at dead rest, with my foot on the brake, moving the shift lever into "Drive," so I don't really have a chance to let the car move forward a few feet--by then the clunk has already happened. You may have a different situation, but I appreciate the thought.

    xbbuster -- Thanks for the referral to 4623-4626. Actually, I had already gone back and looked at those before my first post on this subject. They seemed to be inconclusive to me, so I don't know.

    alpha01 -- Your remarks (post 4876)are laced with so much sarcastic and insulting language that I would ask that you not respond to any of my posts in the future. I think Edmunds should read that post and censure you for your completely inappropriate tone. Among the worst is your comment, "If you regret buying your Camry so much, get rid of it." I've said several times that I like the car a lot. I'm only trying to get some information on something the car is doing that doesn't sound right to me. Before that, you accused me of "bitching and moaning." You're just way out of line. My posts have been factual and accommodating to anyone who might want to discuss my thoughts on the car. So please leave me alone.
  • onlyimportsonlyimports Member Posts: 29
    My 2003 V6 do not have the clunk. Please keep us posted as what the manufacturer has to say. Hope your problem will be solved.
  • alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    Actually, I never specifically referred to you. I'm glad you like your car- and your issue is certainly valid. Personally I'd prefer that this forum, even if it had less traffic- be biased toward news and reviews. I feel that issues such as yours are better addressed in, for example, owners forums. That said, why not get your car checked out by an independent mech? If you are concerned by what the dealer is telling you (ie.."its normal"), you may be able to get an unbiased opinion.

    With regard to my last post, I dont see how it was overly sarcastic- I was just pointing to the fact that many classify their issues with their vehicles as "problems" when often, they are merely "annoyances".

    Sorry man (or woman). Didnt mean to offend you.

    ~alpha
  • andrelaplumeandrelaplume Member Posts: 934
    How did your rattle arbitration go?
  • dudleyrdudleyr Member Posts: 3,469
    There is also a maintenance and repair forum that is very helpfull.
  • silvercrownsilvercrown Member Posts: 237
    I don't post often, but I am an avid reader of several TH forums. In the past, I have generally found them to be informative and interesting avenues for various automotive discussions. I've learned a lot and generally enjoyed the "conversations."

    However, over the past few months, I've noticed a change in the tone and atmosphere here and it's pretty negative. I've seen a lot of rather hostile exchanges on other boards, esp the Mazda6, and Accord topics. I had pretty much figured that the rather heated discussions stemmed from the fact that both of these cars are new for 2003 (or newly revised rather).

    The Camry forum has traditionally been a less volatile and more polite forum, albeit less traveled, IMHO. Now some of the aforementioned unpleasantness appears to have "leaked in" in here. It's not as bad, but I am finding these recent trends sad and disappointing and I felt like expressing them. These are my opinions only, but I think they have validity. These days one is almost afraid to post their opinions on the TH for fear of being set up in raging flames if their views are unpopular. If so, then so be it.

    On topic, I am enjoying my 2000 Camry as much as I did the first day I drove it off the lot 3 years ago on Dec. 13th. I have had 34,000 trouble free miles on it and it still looks showroom new. Although I had considered trading it for something "flashier", I think I will stick with it for a few more years. People in general (at least here on Edmunds) like to criticize the Camry for various reasons, but I think it's a great car, smooth and reliable. It was a smart purchase for me and I intend to enjoy it a while longer. Down the road, I may trade it for a Toyota Highlander. I'm not an "SUV person" but I really like the Highlander. I guess I'm just a Toyota fan after all. :-)
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    this before, but I'll repeat it again. As an owner (4 Toyotas) and now seller (7 years) of Toyotas we have become accustomed to expect nothing but perfection from this make. If something happens to our beloved Toyota whether real or imagined we go up in arms! I went through this back in 1991 with our 92 Camry. Having already owned an 81 Celica and then an 85 Van Le, both were trouble free, trim and mechanical wise. The 92 Camry had some minor "problems" the first month we owned it. The glove box kept popping open while driving, the gas cap holder on the gas door broke the first time I used it, and the engine mount bushings squeaked like a puppy that gets its tail stepped on. Boy were we pissed! How could this happen! This is a TOYOTA! A couple of trips to the dealer and these problems were fixed. The car served us well until last August when my wife was rear ended by a wreckless driver and totalled our beloved friend. Wife still going to physical therapy and recuperating well from her injuries. She loved the car so much that asked for another one of the same vintage. Lucky for us I work at a Toyota dealer and no more than a week after the accident a 93 with half the miles our 92 had was traded in. I was able to purchase it for my wife after talking to the GM of the store as that car was a prime retail unit. I hope this will help us all put things in perspective. Happy Holidays to all at Edmunds' and all my fellow Town Hall members!
    : )
    Mackabee
  • patpat Member Posts: 10,421
    Oh mackabee!! I'm so glad your wife is okay (and I'm also very glad that you and she are on the same page again, at least I hope so...)

    Happy Holidays to you and your family as well.
  • mackabeemackabee Member Posts: 4,709
    We are on the same page again. Things are working out for the better. Happy Holidays!
    : )
    Mackabee
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