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But Toyota took a look at sales numbers for the US last year and more than 50% of the vehicles sold in the US last year were trucks or SUV's. These almost all have higher bumpers than cars so they raised the door beam for the front seat occupants to protect them from the most likely vehicle to hit them with more severe force. The sled the NHTSA uses is the height of a typical car bumper, so came in under the door beam on the Camry.
The changes they did following the test were basically limited to adding slightly more reinforcement to the doors but they will not compromise the safety of the occupants in real-world situations to gain an additional "star" rating. This was as was told to me from the Toyota rep. yesterday.
Hope this helps describe what happened.
Ken
In answer to your winter handling question, I can tell you heavier does not mean better. In fact, the best car I have ever driven that was not 4WD is the Corolla. It has to do with weight distribution and tires. The Camry has relatively wide tires. That is great for comfort and handling but is a detriment to handling in snow. Narrow tires cut through the snow and give you a better chance of finding traction while wide tires distribute the car's weight over a wider area and therefore sits on top of the snow. Wider is NOT better all the time.
Thank you for the information, that is very interesting. If the rep is correct, it confirms that Toyota did indeed make a design change for the 2003. That would strongly suggest that the 2-star driver's side-impact result for the 2002 was not anomalous.
It IS true that the NHTSA test only simulates a relatively smaller vehicle hitting the test subject, and not one of the bigger SUV's or minivans that are so prevalent nowadays. I know that IIHS is working on a side-impact test that simulates a larger, taller vehicle hitting the subject. The rumor has it that quite a few vehicles will not perform as well in that test.
But, until that test is available, the NHTSA test is the only game in town (along with the EuroNCAP testing, but the new Camry hasn't been tested there yet). Whether or not the higher beam in the Camry truly provides sufficient high-bumper protection relative to other vehicles is unproven. Perhaps the Camry will do very well in the new test, perhaps not.
However, IMHO, I don't buy into the Toyota rep's reasoning about not compromising safety. Toyota simply could have added enough reinforcement to protect against both lower and higher bumpers, albeit with some weight penalty. By raising the beam for the 2002, they obviously lowered the protection against vehicles with lower bumpers, and had to compensate by adding reinforcement to the 2003. That reinforcement, even if only for a 3-star rating, should have been there from the beginning.
Then the other question is, is Toyota doing this with other sedans or not, or is this exclusive to the Camry -- and if so, why? The new Corolla gets four stars side-impact for the driver without side airbags. Is the beam in it too low to protect against SUV's? Or is its side-impact construction simply better for various bumper heights? (Side-impact test results can be compared across weight classes, so it's valid to compare the Corolla's side-impact score with the Camry.)
Thank you again for sharing this information!
They also publish actual forces on different parts of the dummies to guage the overall effect within vehicles having the same classification of safety.
As for the Corolla doing well, remember, with it being a smaller car, the A and B pillars are closer together so the sled they used may have had more of the impact absorbed by the pillars where in the Camry having a large door, the door itself had to absorb the whole impact.
That is why I made the comment about how they do their testing. The NHTSA as a good resource, but they haven't changed their testing for many years. For example, the 35 mph test full-frontal into a fixed barrier hasn't changed for 35yrs. This is not very realistic to real-world situations. The testing done by the IIHS tends to be more rigorus as well as more real-world in their applications.
Just hope this helps.
Ken
Unfortunately IIHS currently does not have a public side-impact test, so the only measurement we have is the NHTSA side-impact test.
As far as the Corolla goes, the A-and-B pillars being closer together might help, but smaller vehicles typically have their own limitations that often lead to lower results in side-impact tests.
It'll be interesting to see how a side-airbag-equipped Camry will fare in the crash test (whenever that test occurs). The 2002 ES300 got 5-stars for the driver's side impact, with side airbags. I'm curious to see if the 3-star differential in score vs. the 2002 Camry is purely because of the side airbags, or because the ES300 has a better side-impact structure in its door. The former is highly unlikely as I don't recall any differential that large with the addition of side airbags. The latter is probably more likely, which would then beg the question of why Toyota didn't put the ES300's side-impact protection into the 2002 Camry (and possibly the 2003).
Thanks again.
Hey Mr. (deleted)!
Just a quick thought, this info on the new V6s came through the dealer
website recently and I wanted to touch base with you and say hi.
The new V6 incorporates Variable Valve Timing with intelligence (VVT-i) for
improved power and torque without any reduction in fuel economy. The
engine produces 210 horsepower @ 5,800 rpm and 220 lb.-ft. of torque @ 4,400
rpm, significant improvements compared to the old engine’s 192 horsepower
and 209 lb.-ft. The new engine utilizes an Electronic Throttle Control
System (ETCS-i) and Acoustic Control Induction System (ACIS) for superior
throttle control, drivability and NVH. Camry V6 models also receive a new
5-speed automatic transmission for enhanced performance and refinement.
The upgraded V6 engine and transmission combined with the previously
announced January value enhancements will further reinforce Camry as the
best choice in the competitive mid-size sedan segment.
ooooooooh. aaaaaaaaah.
I'll contact you when more info arrives. Thanks for your time.
(name deleted)
Thanks, I hope you are doing well.
They all work via GPS and use a DVD disc for the most recent list of streets and landmarks. The replacements discs are about $300-$400 each, but don't need replacing typically for every 3-5 yrs depending on how quickly they're developing the area that you're in so that you get an updated map of the area.
The pro's are that it is VERY quick and easy to use especially with the touch screen. The drawback is that other than in the Landcruiser and LX470, you can't watch DVD movies on the system like many other aftermarket systems will allow.
Hope this helps.
Ken
If that's true how come the 2002 Accord (which was a 5 year old design at the time) placed higher last year than both the newly redesigned Altima and the Camry?
Mackabee
It seems that the clearest "bias" that C/D has regarding Hondas is that the Accord seems to best define what they think a family car should be. Because it's the Accord that they keep ranking at the top. But so did Consumer Reports and Road and Track, so C/D is hardly alone.
Hope this helps.
Ken
Ken
Regards
Ken
Thx
~alpha
Hope this helps.
Ken
I'd appreciate it if someone can answer my following questions:
Is the 2003 Camry 4dr LE automatic supposed to have the security
alarm? What about cigarette lighter and ashtray? How do I find
out if security alarm is installed and works. Here's the
details:
I bought a 2003 Camry 4dr LE with auto transmission on Jan. 19
with the following options:
Code Description
50 state emission
AB antilock brake system
BE side & curtain air bags
DJ JBL radio/casette/CD package with 8 speakers
Z1 Pref. package #1
The car was made in November last year. It has keyless entry and
power driver's seat. The salesman told me that if the remote
control has a red panick button, which it does and the button
works, the security alarm is installed. The driver's manual says
that the alarm is armed after the key is removed and all doors
locked, and the alarm will go off if the door is opened using
neither the key nor the remote control. Well, I unlocked the
car, turned the key to ACC, lower some windows, exited the car,
closed and locked all doors. After a couple of minutes, I
reached over the lowered window and pulled the small lever to
unlock the door (without using the key or the remote control),
and opened the door. Nothing happened. No sound, no blinking
lights. The salesman claims that the alarm will go off only if
someone pries open a door. The car keys I have are the regular
ones, not the ones with transponder chips.
The manual also mentions a security indicator light on the
dashboard near the 12V power outlet. Such a light does not exist
in my car. So, do I have the alarm or not? If I do, how do I
find out if it works? If I don't, is the alarm supposed to be a
standard feature or do you have to add it as an option?
BTW, there is no cigarette lighter or ashtray either. Are these
supposed to be standard features on the LE?
Thanks for your help in advance.
Frank
As for the alarm, the way that you checked is exactly the way that I would have recomended that you check. Also if it has a factory alarm, it will ALWAYS have an security indicator somewhere on the dash. It is a black rectangular replacement that fits in one of the placeholders on the dash. When it is activated, it flashes with the red LED light in the center of the rectangle. The panic button is on the remote regardless of if the vehicle has an alarm or not. Also the code for the security system is either V3 for vehicles that don't have keyless on them already or V5 with vehicles that have standard keyless.
Hope this helps.
Ken
answers so soon after I posted my message. And you described
everything clearly. Thinking you must be someone who know a lot
about Toyotas, I tooked a peek at your profile. Too bad you
don't work at a nearby dealership, or I'd recommend my friends to
go to you to buy Toyotas (I live in Maryland).
Thanks again for your help.
Frank
Ken
With the Accord it was the base LX or everything. At 6' 4'' I want headroom , not a hole in the roof. Why make it standard so that those who do not want them have to go farther down scale with regards to other features. Maybe Camry won't be a good option in the future.
Ed
I could not explain why ? Any one ?
Thanks very much for the info. I wish I checked with this board before I bought my Camry. Since I did not ask for the security alarm and don't have one as I've found out, I'm thinking about going to a dealer to have the Toyota RS3200 PLUS security alarm installed. I got a quote of $585 parts and labor. The amount you paid for this option is a lot lower than what I have to pay now after taking delivery of the car. Like you said, a security alarm is a good investment. I'll go get one despite the higher cost.
Regards,
Frank
: )
Mackabee
I just spoke with our inventory manager and they are building them now but none are at port yet.