Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

rutger3 · January 2003

I have a 99 LE with the alarm system. What annoys me is that once the alarm is set, even if you open the trunk with the key, the alarm goes off. Considering the key fob does not offer a trunk button, I do not understand the rationale behind this. If you want to give someone else a key to your car they have to have the key fob too. This is inconvienent.

andrelaplume · January 2003

18fan,
What would the oil have to do with noise...ironically I am do for a 3000K oil change too but have not checked it?

Original not for those who do not want to scroll up:
Question to all long time Toyota/Camry owners. We are having some real frigid weather here in PA. It's been between zero and 10 degrees of late. My Camry sits in a driveway but not a garage. I have noticed over the last few days that when I start the car the first time in the morning or after work that it starts right up but just as I turn and let go of the key I hear a brief grinding noise...sort of sound like gears rubbing or something. I can not say weather it does it once the car is warmed up because it's been too cold to run out and try it after it is parked for a half hour or so. Does anyone think this is a problem or simply due to the cold weather?

mackabee · January 2003

Russell Toyota in Baltimore Md, is showing one in ground status. Shipped yesterday, so it will probably be there tomorrow morning or monday. We are getting a couple next friday.
: )
Mackabee

mrsacks1 · January 2003

I'm thinking/hoping it's the cold weather! The Long Island, NY area is experiencing approx 5 to 15 degree temps and in the last few days I noticed the same sound the first time I start my '97 Camry 4 cyl with 92K mi.in morning and again 12 hrs later when returning home. This car is left outside (my new '03 Camry is garaged, so we don't hear it when starting that car). When I start the '97 after it is warmed up - no noise. I also notice a slight noise in the top of the steering column when turning the steering wheel when it is very cold also. I don't think it likes the cold. Any "Northern Climate" (UpperCanada/Maine/Alaska) owners care to comment?!?

robc31 · January 2003

I have had the same issue the last few days with my 2003 XLE.I live in North Jersey and temps last few mornings, before today, have been between 0-10 above. I noticed the sound when starting the engine for the first time in the morning. I also noticed it Thursday night when I left work. The outside temp was 12. When I left work last night, temp was 21 and I did not hear the sound. Hopefully, it is just a "normal" sound after the car has been sitting for hrs. in the extreme cold.

- Rob.

jpsmith · January 2003

I visited my local dealer today; they didn't have any VVT-i V6's yet. The salesman said they will be arriving in a couple of weeks. He also said the new LE V6's (the model I'm interested in) would be priced $1000-1500 higher than the ones he had on the lot. He implied that the price increase was due to the new engine/trans. It was my understanding that there was no price increase specifically tied to the new engine, and that any difference would just be due to the new cars having more options? Or have they changed pricing and configurations again?

andrelaplume · January 2003

Thanks for the responses...I feel better that I am not alone and perhaps this is just related to the extremely cold weather.

One good thing about the extreme weather....my B-Pillar rattles are gone!

slotoy · January 2003

jpsmith...None of the dealers I have spoken with have said anything about price increases tied directly to the new V6 with 5sp Automatic. However, I have noticed that the spoiler for the SE Models is now listed as an extra cost option on carsdirect.com. It was standard equipment just a few days ago. The same website is still listing the 192HP V-6 as the standard engine with 4sp Automatic w/overdrive. Dealers in my area are deleting the now standard power moonroof on the SE's they are ordering. The deletion is a $900 reduction in MSRP. If the new engine/transmission does, in fact, result in a $1000-1500 price increase, it will make the choice between Camry SE V6 and Accord LX V6 a no brainer. If you want leather, then the Accord EXL becomes a better choice. JMHO....

alpha01 · January 2003

Toyota's constant changing of equipment levels on the Camry this year has made carsdirect.com a virtually incomprehensible tool for pricing this vehicle. Indeed, carsdirect.com still shows the 192hp V6 and 4sp auto combo- but if you look on the first page where it asks you to select your trim, the V6 models are noted parenthetically "EOP NOV 2002". In other words, end of production, November of last year. This seems to be consistent with dealer and reader postings that have claimed low V6 availability.
That said, I think the more std. equipment the better, and I think deletion of pwr moonroof is silly- Honda EX models, even Civics, have had this standard for years. I dont think there will be a price increase for the new V6. Refer to post #5060 on this thread. Looks like the line will be held on pricing.
Finally, I would believe that an LX V6 Accord is cross shopped against an LE V6 Camry, and the EX V6s would square off against the SE and XLE V6 Camrys.

happy motoring
alpha

xphileguy · January 2003

I would really like a power rear sunshade for my 2003 camry LE. Where would I go to get one of these (like the one found in the link below?)

http://www.toyota.co.th/eng/showroom/camry/360_int.asp

Go here and take a look at the 360degree view of inside the camry and look at the back window.

mackabee · January 2003

There is no price increase due to the new engine and transmission. I have one on allocation that lists for $23,797.00 with the following options: FE,BE,DJ,KZ,Z1 model number 2552 V6 LE. Guys, save yourself some heartache and check the manufactures web site for correct information. www.toyota.com has all the info you need on the new V6 with vvt-1. Just go to the Camry section and click on "specifications"
: )
Mackabee

alpha01 · January 2003

Not for anything, Toyota's website is nothing to write home about. For example, the Camry front page details how power seats are now standard on LEs and SEs. Then click over to the pricing page, and one of the features talked about in the text on that page, is power seats, which are noted as being standard on the XLE. Finally, the e-brouchure that is downloadable on the Camry page does not reflect the new equipment, or the engine upgrade.

jpsmith · January 2003

Thanks to all for the info. This seems to confirm what I suspected -- that the higher prices on incoming V6's at my dealer are due to heavier optioning, not the new engine -- but given all the ambiguous information I guess we won't know for sure until we see some new stickers.

I was not previously interested in an SE, precisely because of the moonroof -- being 6'5" tall I can't spare the headroom. If SE's start showing up without moonroofs that would be a plus for me.

Regarding Accord LX-V6, on paper it is a better deal than Camry LE-V6, has IMHO a classier looking interior, and normal-sized people should definitely consider it. But it isn't nearly as roomy in the driver's seat as the Camry. The Accord cockpit has a much more claustrophobic feeling, and my head brushes against the headliner even with no sunroof. Also, the Accord's center console intrudes much more into the driver's leg area. My knee was hitting the console and I knew if I bought it I would regret it. I didn't have either of these problems in the non-moonroof Camry. This is what us big guys deal with -- it really limits our options.

slotoy · January 2003

Exactly right...additionally, if you go to the link that allows you to build your own, the moonroof is still listed as an extra cost option for the SE V-6. I can understand why carsdirect.com and Edmunds may be running a little late on new options and standard equipment...but, the official Toyota Website??? Give me a break.

dnickles · January 2003

I have a line on an '89 Camry with 221,000 miles. The timing belt hasn't been changed for over 70,000 miles; will this be a potential problem. My father has owned several Camrys and feels these belts need to be changed every 60,000 miles. Am I looking at a potential problem? How much to replace the belt, approximately?

slotoy · January 2003

I apologize in advance for posting here to ask this question; but....has anyone else experienced difficulty while trying to option a car on carsdirect.com? I find that the site doesn't react when I try to delete one of the default check marks or add a check mark in the blank boxes beside options I want to add to a car. I don't believe it is my computer; because it works fine on all other websites. This is really frustrating.

toyotaken · January 2003

first, for the person stating that the dealer was telling him that the new vvt-i engine models will be about $1,500 more, that may be what they plan on the difference being in the price they're willing to sell the new one's for in comparison to the non-vvt-i models until the non-models are sold.

Also, for the comment about the Toyota website and the comment about the LE vs. the XLE power seats, they are different. The LE and SE power SEAT is only the driver's seat. The power SEATS for the XLE are for the driver and front passenger. I agree with Mack that the toyota website is your best resource for pricing and options. They may be a day or two behind their official announcements, but are quicker to update than any other site I've found.

Hope this helps.

Ken

gkoff · January 2003

What is the grade of fuel required for new V-6? I have seen both regular and premium mentioned.

jpsmith · January 2003

Does anyone have an educated guess/opinion how much the SE suspension bits contribute to its better handling? Or is most of the improvement due to its larger, performance tires? Consumer Reports stated that the XLE-V6 they recently tested cornered significantly better than the (4 cyl.) LE, and XLE doesn't have the sport suspension -- only bigger tires. So I'm wondering if I could get most of the SE's improved cornering by just putting 16" Potenzas on an LE. Any thoughts? The boy-racer spoiler on the SE doesn't do much for me.

toyotaken · January 2003

Premium is recommended, but 87 octane is fine with slightly reduced performance. The engine will run fine on 87 octane.

Ken

jpsmith · January 2003

Does anyone have an educated guess/opinion how much the SE suspension bits contribute to its better handling? Or is most of the improvement due to its larger, performance tires? Consumer Reports stated that the XLE-V6 they recently tested cornered significantly better than the (4 cyl.) LE, and XLE doesn't have the sport suspension -- only bigger tires. So I'm wondering if I could get most of the SE's improved cornering by just putting 16" Potenzas on an LE. Any thoughts? The boy-racer spoiler on the SE doesn't do much for me.

mackabee · January 2003

the Se's suspension has tighter springs (more compressed) also there is a strut bar across the front struts to keep the body stiffer. There is quite a difference in handling between both.
: )
Mackabee

mackabee · January 2003

Did you go to the specifications page?
: )
Mackabee

fredvh · January 2003

Do you or any other dealers remember what, if any, improvements were made to the 2003 Toyota Camry to improve the side-impact result of the NHTSA tests? If you remember, the Camry only received 2 stars for the 2002 year for the front occupant. It receives 3 stars now for the 2003. I thought I remembered someone mentioning that an additional bar was placed in the front doors at a slightly lower elevation. Could you help?

toyotaken · January 2003

Actually, I was the one that made the original post. They added some additonal padding in the door to give some added protection in the event of a side impact by a smaller car. The door beam they used was placed higher to give added protection to occupants from SUV's and Trucks which were more than 50% of total vehicle sales in the past couple of years and typically have higher bumpers.

Ken

fredvh · January 2003

Thanks. A prospective buyer in a western state may e-mail you for further information. I was passing on the information to him.

toyotaken · January 2003

drmp · January 2003

vvti V6 v/s current non-vvti V6. Please post here. Thanks.

jpsmith · January 2003

I think I'll start with an LE (V6), perhaps with the grippier tires, and if I feel the need to upgrade the handling further I'll look at aftermarket suspension mods. Everything is a compromise, and I hate to give up that ultra-smooth ride.

I sure hope Toyota does another round of 0%APR financing, so I can get me a VVT-i!

slotoy · January 2003

I wonder if Toyota is aware that poor quality control on their Website establishes a mind set in potential customers...or, more importantly, I wonder if they care. The "build your own" feature is a joke...not necessarily funny; but a joke nevertheless. Just a couple of examples I ran accross while trying to "build" a Camry SE V6: The moonroof is listed (by default) as a $900 option... elsewhere on the site, Toyota makes a big issue of the fact that the moonroof is now standard equipment on the SE V6...if you try to click on the delete moonroof box, it adds another $900. The SE Premium package is listed twice (with different prices)...no matter which one you select, both get added to the options and price of the car you are attempting to build. There are other similar problems in the Website...the bottom line is that there is no way to actually research a car with any degree of accuracy. I am a current Camry owner and I want a new one; but I will not walk into a dealership and buy one "blind". I don't know if these problems exist for other areas of the country or not...my zip code is within the Southeastern Region.

tomgreen1000 · January 2003

Is the dealer the appropriate source for touch up paint for 2003 Camry - Aspen Green?

Thanks.

Tom

andrelaplume · January 2003

I don't suppose Toyota will do anything for the 2002 owners to re-pad their cars. I guess that bar can't be moved up either. I am disapointed. Further the Continental tires, or the Camry or both suck in the snow. Finally I don't think anti-lock brakes with traction control were even an option on the LE...or at least a reasonably priced one.

Anyone who cares to comment on other tires and whether or not it makes a difference...let me know!

toyotaken · January 2003

First, from my understanding, the test measurements were just on the verge of 3-stars in the original test. Also, if you look back at my earlier post, you can see what caused the result. Toyota designed the door to protect you in the greatest number of crashes. Add to that that in order for you to have the same result, you would basically have to be parked in the middle of an intersection while someone aimed the center of their bumper to the center of the door. Most side impacts are when one person is pulling through an intersection and another goes through a red light or stop sign. Neither one of the vehicles is static. After being an EMT for over 10 years, I've never seen a side-impact that was a true T-bone where one car was stopped completely and another hit them centered in the middle of the front door. Most often if it is a "classic T-Bone", the hitting vehicle hits the other car on the B pillar. Like I posted earlier, the slight additional padding helped with the testing results, but like everything else, each situation is unique and who knows if that would make a significant difference in real-world situations. Toyota tries to give the greatest level of safety while still providing a competitive vehicle in both pricing and equipment. For all intents and purposes, I think they do a very good job of that.

As for your questions about tires in the snow, there has been a pretty extensive discussion on one of the other boards about snow tires. However, in a nutshell, "all-season" tires are not really all season. They are warm, dry and wet surface tires. They are not designed for any significant amount of snow or cold. Colder temperatures cause the rubber compounds in almost all all-season tires to get too hard to provide a decent level of traction. Add to that they are not designed to give adequate traction on snow or ice and you have the problem you have now. The two best snow-specific tires out there right now, it seems, are Blizzaks and Nokians.

Hope this helps.

Ken

automophile · January 2003

We have pretty well decided that a new Camry XLE is the car to buy. Smooth, comfortable and luxurious, with legendary Toyota Quality.

The problem is our trade-in - A MINT '97 Accord with very low miles, Blue Book Trade-In value of about $9700. We have babied this car, and it is surely worth even more. However, the dealers have offered us only $5000-7500! When I point out the current Blue Book quote, they claim the Blue Book is only a "guide". A couple of dealers told us that they NEVER pay Blue Book for the trades. I thought that the Blue Book represented what dealers were actually paying in the area (So. Calif.)

What's the story? Their lo-ball offers are insulting while they are selling the same car on their used car lots for $13-15K. What can we do to get a FAIR price on our trade? All we want is low Blue Book. Do we have to hold it over their heads as a deal-breaker?

I will mention that the Mazda dealer guaranteed us Low Book as a trade for a new Mazda 6 - sight unseen!

Thanks!

toyotaken · January 2003

First, you're not giving enough information on your car. For example, I am taking in a '96 Accord "value edition" today that has 84,000 miles. It is an automatic with A/C, and is in clean condition. However, it will still be a wholesale piece for us as a vehicle with that many miles, even a Honda or Toyota, is hard to sell at a new car dealership. These cars have been bringing about $3,500 at the auctions locally. That was the value we put on that particular vehicle as when we wholesale a vehicle, we're just looking to break even with what we put into it along with the detailing and auction fees. So although KBB calls for $3,900 and Edmunds calls for $4,300, we put $3,500 into it because that is what the local area is calling for in terms of wholesale value.

Now remember, you are not OBLIGATED to trade your vehicle in. You can always sell it on your own as well. I know that isn't a great alternative, but from what it seems you're saying, most of the dealers in the area are in the same neighborhood on the value they are willing to put on your car, so it is likely that that is pretty accurate.

Hope this helps even if it isn't necessarily what you wanted to hear.

Ken

toyotaken · January 2003

would be to "shop" your vehicle at other dealerships on its own. They will be willing to buy your car. The only drawbacks are that they don't have a lot of incentive to stretch on the value as they won't be selling a new car to you. Also you will not be saving on the sales tax, but if the additional amount they give is more than the sales tax savings, it may still be worth it.

Ken

cliffy1 · January 2003

The value of any car is what somebody is willing to pay for it. If several dealers are in agreement on the price, they are probably right. Our used car department doesn't use Blue Book and I don't know of a dealership that does. What a dealership looks at is "Black book" which you can't get. That is a guide that looks almost exclusively at auction reports. They also look at the realities of what they will sell the car for. A 97 Accord is not going to sell for $14,000. They may start at that but will have to bring it down quite a bit to actually sell it. They also assume every car in the world needs between $500 to $1000 in "reconditioning" expenses. This is essentially their service department charging the used car department.

Now, I don't know enough about the value of a '97 Accord to give exact figures but let's say the real world retail is $10,000. The used car manager looks and says, "By the time I get bullied by a customer with a copy of Consumer Reports, I'll have to take the price down to $10,000 if I replace the tires and my shop doesn't find a surprise that kills the value. I've got to pay my salesman and make a profit. I can get the same car at the auction next week for $7500 but that one has a buy back garuntee. Its worth $7000 to me."

That's really about the thought process. It has nothing to do with KBB.

Now, the Mazda store is telling you exactly what you want to hear. Ever think why the Mazda store would do that over the phone when three stores you were actually at wouldn't? It is because they are "low balling" you. When you arrive, they may in fact offer you the KBB number. They will also put an ACV (actual cash value) at what it is really worth. If the ACV is less than the trade allowance, they will have to make it up on the price of the new car.

automophile · January 2003

Thanks toytotaken and cliffy -

Basically, what you are telling me is that Kelly Blue Book or Edmunds "Trade-In" value has nothing to do with the real world. This jives with what the dealers tell us.

SO - why do KBB and Edmunds even offer this? It seems to be meaningless information. It is supposed to reflect what the dealers are actually paying - not some mythical figure. Please excuse my venting - this is very frustrating.

You are right, we are not FORCED to take the offer, but selling privately is not as easy as it used to be, or as safe. My lady just doesn't want to hassle it. However, it is very discouraging to turn over a MINT '97 EX, loaded, with only 40K miles for a small fraction of the original selling price. The $9700 I quoted was the KBB trade in value for our location, model, equipment and condition.

By the way, the Mazda dealer quoted us the low book offer during a test drive visit, but we were in my Solara, not the Accord. You are correct that such an offer over the phone would be useless to consider.

Thanks again for your sage advice!

kybill · January 2003

but with such a nice vehicle and with such low mileage, why get rid of it? Seems to me that you'd be better off, financially, to hang on to a car you've cared for and is so dependable.

andrelaplume · January 2003

Your points are well taken on the side impact on the Camry...still other cars made 3 stars easy no matter how you look at it. I appreciate your ecxperience though and would like to think Toyota is looking out for us not just at the bottom line.

As far as tires go, you made me laugh! I live in PA not Alaska. We get a few inches of snow at a time and have not needed snow tires since the days of my rear-drive '75 Firebird...which also required a few 50 lb bags of sand in the trunk. I can see issues here in deep messy snow or ice but my tires spin all the time in as little as a dusting, and this was not common on the other cars I owned. Cliffy made some good points on tires and the fact that wider is not always better and it is true that these tires are wider than my prior vehicles. Still I keep thinking that the Camry was made lighter for better fuel economy...if not then by God I don't know how the 4 cylider gets as better milage than my old six and is just as quicker and powerfull! Whether the issue is in the car weight, design or tires it's a shame.

I really do like the car but I guess after years of driving doemestics my expectations were a bit too high and likely based too much on slightly exagerated experiences of other drivers.

manamal · January 2003

Your trade is worth what someone is willing to pay. One plce I have found good for selling my car is Carmax. Here in VA, I have sold two cars that were to be traded. One was an excellent condition 2000 honda accord EXV6 (in Jan 2002) which went for KBB good trade. That was several thousand more than the dealer was willing to pay.

My guess is if your car is in good condition, they will come in about 1-2K (8-9K) and will turn around and sell it for 11-12K.

crv16 · January 2003

We just traded our 2000 Quest on a new Sienna. I looked up the trade in value from the following sites:

www.kbb.com
www.intellichoice.com
www.edmunds.com
www.nadaguides.com
www.galves.com
www.autoweb.com
www.cars.com

The values ranges from a high of $14,300 at nadaguides to a low of $10,200 at galves.com. Averaged out - it came to 12,000. We got $11,500 on the trade from the dealer.

The values for used cars has taken a huge drop over the past couple years. The combination of new cars declining in price, low interest rates and new safety features result in low demand for used cars.

It's supply and demand, pure and simple.

rutger3 · January 2003

automophile, I agree with kybill that the best thing would be to keep the Accord for a while. The longer you keep it the more 'value' it will have when compared to buying a new car. I have a 99 Camry with 113,000 miles and still use it to commute 100 miles each day. Your Accord is probably paid off. Now compare that to a new car payment each month which will likely be more than the Accord will depreciate monthly and you are in good shape. If the dealers want to play hardball with your trade then stick it to them by not trading your's in and not buying a new care from them. As an alternative, you could try selling it on your own first and see what you could get. Then rent a car for a week or two and go buy the new car without the hassel of a trade. You will have more cash in your hand and be in a better bargaining position. Yet another idea is to try selling to a small used car dealer who may value your trade more than the big dealers.

cliffy1 · January 2003

Don't get me wrong. Edmunds and KBB are excellent resources but they are not always right. They are guides and not rule books. In many cases they are spot on. In others they are not. I will also say that the used car market has REALLY been getting weak. It started just after 9/11/02 but that has accelerated lately due to the slowing economy. The car business didn't slow down last year like the rest of the economy but that is catching up with us now and that too has an impact on car values. Some of the "book" may not be able to keep up with trends like this.

stnick · January 2003

Here is my opinion. These books mean only what the dealer wants them to mean. Case in point. I just tried to deal with 3 Toyota dealers to buy a 03 XLE. I was going to trade them in a 02 Dodge Dakota Quad cab 4x4 loaded, also with many accessories and in showroom condition with 8500 miles on it. 29895.00 when new + accessories. The 1st dealer in a larger city quotes 17000.00. Talk about insulted. The next dealer, larger city thought $19,000.00. Then the 3rd dealer, much smaller town said Black Book was 19800.00, but only 19000.00 trade. He gave the largest discount on the new car though. Point is NADA says 23500.00 Kelly says 22750.00 trade value, but none of these guys use Kelly Blue Book EXCEPT when they advertise the supposed value of their used cars in advertising here in the midwest. I have no problem with dealers making a profit.They have to. But too many anymore will flat out piss off some of us with exceptional vehicles with rediculously low trade offers, then knowing in most cases they can make a killing on that vehicle. No reconitioning required on my trade, in new condition with a lot of warranty. Then I see dealer ads with a vehicle like mine with more miles and less equipment asking 24 or 25000.00, and poss willing to drop 1000.00 or 1500.00. Not all cars are auction grade cars. Good luck, I will sell outright before I drop that much money to any one on a 9 month old 30 grand truck.

toyotaken · January 2003

All of the heavy rebating and low finance programs on many of the domestic vehicles. My sister-in-law owns a 2000 Olds Alero that was almost $20,000 MSRP new. The same exact vehicle was in the paper over the weekend, 2002, New, for $9,995. No fine print or anything. Just rebates, dealer incentives, and discounting. So this car that is now 3 years old with 50,000 miles on it is worth about $4,000 trade-in. Back it out... New with no miles for $9,995, 2001 for what? $7,500 retail? 2000 for what? $5,500 retail? What would you expect for reconditioning for a 50,000 mile car? So trade is real-world about $4,000.

I'm seeing the same things on other, for the most part, domestic vehicles. Explorers, Malibus, etc. The owners are not any more happy than we are as we aren't able to put the money into the trade that they would like because we can get these cars from the auctions for so little now.

Trust me, the sales staff doesn't want to turn a customer away over the value of the trade, and neither does that dealership, but they need to make good business decisions as well.

Ken

andrelaplume · January 2003

Forget everything. KBB is used by the dealers to low ball you on your trade and high ball you on a purchase. It is that simple. I even noticed the recent trend to quote rediculously low trade values from auction lists. The always point to cars coming off auction and these values are sometimes thousands cheaper than any pricing found on the web. (And many times the cars coming off auction, should you really care to bicker with the salesman, turn out to high mileage stick shift no/air pigs--but they do not tell you that up front)

The bottom line is to use the web to determine what a fair value is if you sell the car yourself and then factor in the 'convenience amount' of what you are willing to 'spend' for the convenience of having the dealer sell it. If the dealer offers you your price, take it. Otherwise look elsewhere or sell it yourself. You will likely do no worse selling it yourself and its not worth the stress of agruing or feeling ripped off.

Interesting I learned this lesson the hard way recently. I have another Toyota purchased used that we have serviced at a local Toyota dealer for years. Excellent service. The service guy introduced us to a salesman when it came time to buy the Camry. You'd think for such 'good' customers they'd make a quick deal / trade. No Way. It took 2 hours just to get them to agree to a purchase price on the Camry quoted to me by another local dealer over the net. Then after bickeing for some time more they offered me what I wanted for my trade. Of course then the sales guys boss comes in and blows the deal by stating 'we can't give you that much for your trade'. Many hours were wasted and I was stressed out I emailed the net dealer and set up an appt to have my trade evaluated. We went to the net dealership who offered me more than I had initially been offered at the first dealer. I thought for sure up until I signed the paperwork that some other fee would be slipped in. We signed the papers and were out of there in 35 minutes--no extra charges.

My lesson, when the bickering starts I move to the next dealer. If I run out of dealers I can always go back and purchase the new car from one of the dealers and sell my old car myself.

Also consider selling your car on Ebay! And never negotiate your trade until an out the door price for the new car is established. Personally do not even tempt fate by bringing your trade or mentioning it until you have a contract on the new car. Finally, once you have done the deal, do not look at any car pricing for 6 moths...you'll need this amount of time to recuperate.

cliffy1 · January 2003

Andrelaplume makes some interesting points. What needs to be added is that you don't have to bicker with the salesman or manager if you have options. "You only want to give me $4000 for by 1978 LeCar? No problem, I have an offer from a co-worker for $6000. Let's leave the trade out of the deal." The "Internet" is not going to buy your car. Neither is Edmunds nor KBB. The dealer has a lot of expenses and a lot of experience with car values. Don't be insulted if you disagree with the dealer on the trade value.

Finally, if you are asking a dealer to buy your car, don't be surprised if they want to get a good deal on it.

stnick · January 2003

You all bring up valid points, BUT I still maintain that a vehicle in Excellent condition deserves better than run of the mill trade in value, otherwise whats the point of TLC except for your own satisfaction. All my vehicles are very well kept and maintained and I would like some reward for it. On selling outright, you must also figure in the sales tax difference, in some states, such as mine, if I sell outright, I have to make up a $1200.00 difference than the trade price just in sales tax. I considered this, but the difference was still just too much to swallow. The other thing that hurts Toyota and some others is the heavy Big 3 rebates going on. Sure, they may not be quite as nice as a Camry, but the heavy rebates are absorbing the somewhat heavier first year depreciation of all new vehicles, includung the 5 to 6000.00 loss the first year on a Camry. I can buy a lot of Ford, Chevy, and Dodge just to name a few for a few grand less than a Toyota. You Toyota dealers have to be having a little trouble with this. I would ask Toyota if a purchaser doesn't need 1.9% financing, why don't you offer that customer a rebate instead, so that THAT buyer can benefit. Just something to think about, regards, Nick

masan · January 2003

I agree that it is difficult to research and "build" a Camry online. It's so frustrating that my parents have continued to drive their present car instead of buying the Camry they meant to purchase months ago.

Does anyone know if the SE 4 or 6 is now available with side air bags and ABS, or are we going to have to look at an XLE (or an Accord)?

Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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