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Toyota Camry 2006 and earlier

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Comments

  • manamalmanamal Posts: 434
    Your trade is worth what someone is willing to pay. One plce I have found good for selling my car is Carmax. Here in VA, I have sold two cars that were to be traded. One was an excellent condition 2000 honda accord EXV6 (in Jan 2002) which went for KBB good trade. That was several thousand more than the dealer was willing to pay.

    My guess is if your car is in good condition, they will come in about 1-2K (8-9K) and will turn around and sell it for 11-12K.
  • crv16crv16 Posts: 205
    We just traded our 2000 Quest on a new Sienna. I looked up the trade in value from the following sites:

    www.kbb.com
    www.intellichoice.com
    www.edmunds.com
    www.nadaguides.com
    www.galves.com
    www.autoweb.com
    www.cars.com

    The values ranges from a high of $14,300 at nadaguides to a low of $10,200 at galves.com. Averaged out - it came to 12,000. We got $11,500 on the trade from the dealer.

    The values for used cars has taken a huge drop over the past couple years. The combination of new cars declining in price, low interest rates and new safety features result in low demand for used cars.

    It's supply and demand, pure and simple.
  • rutger3rutger3 Posts: 361
    automophile, I agree with kybill that the best thing would be to keep the Accord for a while. The longer you keep it the more 'value' it will have when compared to buying a new car. I have a 99 Camry with 113,000 miles and still use it to commute 100 miles each day. Your Accord is probably paid off. Now compare that to a new car payment each month which will likely be more than the Accord will depreciate monthly and you are in good shape. If the dealers want to play hardball with your trade then stick it to them by not trading your's in and not buying a new care from them. As an alternative, you could try selling it on your own first and see what you could get. Then rent a car for a week or two and go buy the new car without the hassel of a trade. You will have more cash in your hand and be in a better bargaining position. Yet another idea is to try selling to a small used car dealer who may value your trade more than the big dealers.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Don't get me wrong. Edmunds and KBB are excellent resources but they are not always right. They are guides and not rule books. In many cases they are spot on. In others they are not. I will also say that the used car market has REALLY been getting weak. It started just after 9/11/02 but that has accelerated lately due to the slowing economy. The car business didn't slow down last year like the rest of the economy but that is catching up with us now and that too has an impact on car values. Some of the "book" may not be able to keep up with trends like this.
  • stnickstnick Posts: 177
    Here is my opinion. These books mean only what the dealer wants them to mean. Case in point. I just tried to deal with 3 Toyota dealers to buy a 03 XLE. I was going to trade them in a 02 Dodge Dakota Quad cab 4x4 loaded, also with many accessories and in showroom condition with 8500 miles on it. 29895.00 when new + accessories. The 1st dealer in a larger city quotes 17000.00. Talk about insulted. The next dealer, larger city thought $19,000.00. Then the 3rd dealer, much smaller town said Black Book was 19800.00, but only 19000.00 trade. He gave the largest discount on the new car though. Point is NADA says 23500.00 Kelly says 22750.00 trade value, but none of these guys use Kelly Blue Book EXCEPT when they advertise the supposed value of their used cars in advertising here in the midwest. I have no problem with dealers making a profit.They have to. But too many anymore will flat out piss off some of us with exceptional vehicles with rediculously low trade offers, then knowing in most cases they can make a killing on that vehicle. No reconitioning required on my trade, in new condition with a lot of warranty. Then I see dealer ads with a vehicle like mine with more miles and less equipment asking 24 or 25000.00, and poss willing to drop 1000.00 or 1500.00. Not all cars are auction grade cars. Good luck, I will sell outright before I drop that much money to any one on a 9 month old 30 grand truck.
  • toyotakentoyotaken Posts: 897
    All of the heavy rebating and low finance programs on many of the domestic vehicles. My sister-in-law owns a 2000 Olds Alero that was almost $20,000 MSRP new. The same exact vehicle was in the paper over the weekend, 2002, New, for $9,995. No fine print or anything. Just rebates, dealer incentives, and discounting. So this car that is now 3 years old with 50,000 miles on it is worth about $4,000 trade-in. Back it out... New with no miles for $9,995, 2001 for what? $7,500 retail? 2000 for what? $5,500 retail? What would you expect for reconditioning for a 50,000 mile car? So trade is real-world about $4,000.

    I'm seeing the same things on other, for the most part, domestic vehicles. Explorers, Malibus, etc. The owners are not any more happy than we are as we aren't able to put the money into the trade that they would like because we can get these cars from the auctions for so little now.

    Trust me, the sales staff doesn't want to turn a customer away over the value of the trade, and neither does that dealership, but they need to make good business decisions as well.

    Ken
  • Forget everything. KBB is used by the dealers to low ball you on your trade and high ball you on a purchase. It is that simple. I even noticed the recent trend to quote rediculously low trade values from auction lists. The always point to cars coming off auction and these values are sometimes thousands cheaper than any pricing found on the web. (And many times the cars coming off auction, should you really care to bicker with the salesman, turn out to high mileage stick shift no/air pigs--but they do not tell you that up front)

    The bottom line is to use the web to determine what a fair value is if you sell the car yourself and then factor in the 'convenience amount' of what you are willing to 'spend' for the convenience of having the dealer sell it. If the dealer offers you your price, take it. Otherwise look elsewhere or sell it yourself. You will likely do no worse selling it yourself and its not worth the stress of agruing or feeling ripped off.

    Interesting I learned this lesson the hard way recently. I have another Toyota purchased used that we have serviced at a local Toyota dealer for years. Excellent service. The service guy introduced us to a salesman when it came time to buy the Camry. You'd think for such 'good' customers they'd make a quick deal / trade. No Way. It took 2 hours just to get them to agree to a purchase price on the Camry quoted to me by another local dealer over the net. Then after bickeing for some time more they offered me what I wanted for my trade. Of course then the sales guys boss comes in and blows the deal by stating 'we can't give you that much for your trade'. Many hours were wasted and I was stressed out I emailed the net dealer and set up an appt to have my trade evaluated. We went to the net dealership who offered me more than I had initially been offered at the first dealer. I thought for sure up until I signed the paperwork that some other fee would be slipped in. We signed the papers and were out of there in 35 minutes--no extra charges.

    My lesson, when the bickering starts I move to the next dealer. If I run out of dealers I can always go back and purchase the new car from one of the dealers and sell my old car myself.

    Also consider selling your car on Ebay! And never negotiate your trade until an out the door price for the new car is established. Personally do not even tempt fate by bringing your trade or mentioning it until you have a contract on the new car. Finally, once you have done the deal, do not look at any car pricing for 6 moths...you'll need this amount of time to recuperate.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Andrelaplume makes some interesting points. What needs to be added is that you don't have to bicker with the salesman or manager if you have options. "You only want to give me $4000 for by 1978 LeCar? No problem, I have an offer from a co-worker for $6000. Let's leave the trade out of the deal." The "Internet" is not going to buy your car. Neither is Edmunds nor KBB. The dealer has a lot of expenses and a lot of experience with car values. Don't be insulted if you disagree with the dealer on the trade value.

    Finally, if you are asking a dealer to buy your car, don't be surprised if they want to get a good deal on it.
  • stnickstnick Posts: 177
    You all bring up valid points, BUT I still maintain that a vehicle in Excellent condition deserves better than run of the mill trade in value, otherwise whats the point of TLC except for your own satisfaction. All my vehicles are very well kept and maintained and I would like some reward for it. On selling outright, you must also figure in the sales tax difference, in some states, such as mine, if I sell outright, I have to make up a $1200.00 difference than the trade price just in sales tax. I considered this, but the difference was still just too much to swallow. The other thing that hurts Toyota and some others is the heavy Big 3 rebates going on. Sure, they may not be quite as nice as a Camry, but the heavy rebates are absorbing the somewhat heavier first year depreciation of all new vehicles, includung the 5 to 6000.00 loss the first year on a Camry. I can buy a lot of Ford, Chevy, and Dodge just to name a few for a few grand less than a Toyota. You Toyota dealers have to be having a little trouble with this. I would ask Toyota if a purchaser doesn't need 1.9% financing, why don't you offer that customer a rebate instead, so that THAT buyer can benefit. Just something to think about, regards, Nick
  • masanmasan Posts: 77
    I agree that it is difficult to research and "build" a Camry online. It's so frustrating that my parents have continued to drive their present car instead of buying the Camry they meant to purchase months ago.

    Does anyone know if the SE 4 or 6 is now available with side air bags and ABS, or are we going to have to look at an XLE (or an Accord)?
  • ABS is standard on all V6 and XLE, available on LE and SE. Side air bags is optional,

    http://www.toyota.com/html/shop/vehicles/camry/options/camry_opti- ons.html
  • crv16crv16 Posts: 205
    You bring up a good point about "maintaining your car with great TLC".

    What is the point of doing so, if at trade-in time, it doesn't matter? All that really matters at trade-in time is the cosmetic appearance of the car, and the fact that there are no obvious mechanical issues.

    In all the times I've traded in a car - I've NEVER been asked about maintenance I've performed on the car. For all they know, I could have changed the oil twice over 60,000 miles. Before I trade a car, I have it detailed. The dealer does not take the time to look into it's maintenance history.

    It's that reason alone that I NEVER GO TO THE DEALER FOR THE "SCHEDULED MAINTENANCE". Sure, I change the oil & filter every 4k, and flush the tranny every 30k, and replace the air filter every 15k. But that's about it, because anything past that is money down the drain, since I don't keep a car more than 4 or 5 years.
  • rutger3rutger3 Posts: 361
    I do see one constant on the trade value issue. Many people trade their vehicles in too early. They buy it new and a year later trade it in with only 15,000 miles on it. They have taken the biggest depreciation hit in this initial year and then wonder why they can't get more for their car. Most cars depreciate 20-25% in the first year, some even more. The answer is simple. Don't buy new, buy a 1 or 2 year old used car since the prices have fallen so much,then when you trade it in the amount of lossed value will be much less. If you buy new, then hold onto it longer. There is a steep price to be paid if you want to drive a new car every year or two. The dealers love this because they make more money in a shorter period of time.
  • drmpdrmp Posts: 187
    I guess they're here in some dealers. Those of you who drove it, please post your feedbacks. Thanks.
  • I have been looking at Camry Solaras - used 2000 & 2001, new 2002 (a few left). Now I learn that an all-new 2004 model will be out this year. It is difficult to know what to do. I know there is a separate Solara board but not all the good guys go there.

    When I look at Edmunds used prices, it would appear that a 2000 would go for maybe 3000-4000 less than a new one, not enough of a difference to me. Cliffy1, however, noted that used prices have been depressed.

    I would really appreciate some thoughts before I hit the bottle in my frustration. How much do you save on used? If new, buy 2002,2003 or wait for 2004?

    Thank you
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Used car values are depressed, although finding the right car for the right price can be a trick. Just for the heck of it, I did a search on trader online to see what dealers were asking for 2000 Solaras. I found several SLEs in the $17K to $18K range. These were at dealers and were Certified. Normally, dealers leave themselves $100 to $2000 wiggle room in advertised used car prices (this is NOT true of new car ads). Some dealers don't do this but most do.

    I guess it just comes down to what you want and what you want to pay for.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I think a used Solara V6 would be wonderful, and if you dont need to have the newest on the block, you should be able to get a great car, at a great price, with a great warranty (like cliffy said). However, I would avoid the sluggish (but thrifty) 2.2L 4cyl.
    ~alpha
  • slotoyslotoy Posts: 14
    Prior to owning Camrys, I had a number of GM and Ford products. I usually preferred the Fords. My last three vehicles have been Toyota...2 Camrys and a pick-up...loved them all. I have recently been shopping for a Camry SE V6 Automatic...probably would have already bought one if I were not waiting for the VVT-i with 5spd Auto. Here is my dilema. On a whim I put out some feelers on pricing for a 2003 Mercury Grand Marquis LSE. I have found one with MSRP of$30,310 that I can buy for $24,435 plus tag,tax, title. The best price I can get on a Camry SE is $24,890. The SE is well equipped but not as loaded as the Grand Marquis...I am sorely tempted to jump ship on Toyota. Can some of you Camry loyalists send a few words to help me get my head screwed on straight again?
  • manamalmanamal Posts: 434
    For words for you:

    Gas Milage, Reliability, Reseale
  • talon95talon95 Posts: 1,110
    I'm not necessarily a Camry loyalist (more of an Accord loyalist, mainly because I prefer its sportier feel), but think of why you'd be getting such a huge discount on the Grand Marquis. It's because it's a dinosaur, and just doesn't compete well against cars like the Camry. Mercury has to use fire sale prices just to move them.

    And a little research helps to understand the need for bargain basement pricing. Here's a summary from the recent large sedan test (Toyota Avalon, Buick Park Avenue, Lincoln Town Car, Mercury Grand Marquis LSE) by Consumer Reports:

    "Despite upgrades for 2003, the Grand Marquis isn't keeping up with its more modern competition. It has the least amount of interior room in this group, especially in the rear. Its ride is stiff and jiggly; handling is secure but cumbersome. The cabin lacks the features and fit-and-finish quality that one expects of a $30,000 sedan. Reliability has fallen off lately, too."

    A few more major downsides compared to the Camry:

    "The LSE's V8... sounds harsher and delivers an unimpressive 16 mpg overall on regular fuel."

    "The interior falls short, with subpar materials and flimsy plastic trim."

    "The Grand Marquis has had worse-than-average reliability of late."

    So which would you really rather have? The Grand Marquis, a big cumbersome sedan that has both subpar ride AND handling, a harsh engine that guzzles fuel, cheap interior materials and poor reliability? Or a Camry, a smaller but still roomy sedan with a comfortable ride, solid handling, much better gas mileage, top notch interior materials and design, and superb reliability?

    I suggest that the $5,500 saved now on the Grand Marquis would cost you much more than it's worth in the long run in additional fuel, eventual repairs, resale value and driving and owner satisfaction. It's a false economy. Don't trade your overall satisfaction for a handful of extra toys. Get the Camry and don't look back.
  • pluto5pluto5 Posts: 618
    IMO you don't want another boring Toyota. I shoppped the GM, too, but skipped that dinosauer for an Impala LS, the most fun to drive IMO.
  • pluto5pluto5 Posts: 618
    Just don't want slotoy to miss a good thing.

    Also, Impala LS was not included in the comparison referenced by Talon95 yet is one of the most reliable sedans tested by CR.

    Sorry if you have a problem with it.
  • talon95talon95 Posts: 1,110
    While it ranks higher than average in reliability for an American sedan, its overall test score puts it in the bottom half of CR's list of midsized cars... ranked as good, while the Camry V6 is ranked as excellent, 2 rankings higher. Big difference. There are many mid-sized cars that rank considerably higher.

    Anyway, 'nuff said about this off-topic subject.
  • Just kidding
    The Camry is more refined, has better styling (subjective), rides better, and is more reliable.

    Also, what options do you have with the Camry. The sunroof is NOW standard on the SE models isn't.

    Do not get the Grand Mark, if Toyota has been this good to you, STICK with THEM!
  • Hehe, seems like not too many Camry defenders here. Plus every Camry owner is probably biased to give you subjective opinion. If you have some time, try to test drive a few cars in that price range, see how much sales people will consider your needs versus their own, consider your priorities and make a choice while balancing your wants and needs. I am kinda disappointed with the latest reliability/quality reports on latest model Toyotas by their owners. I wish you a good new-car buying experience.
  • cliffy1cliffy1 Posts: 3,581
    Believe it or not, I like those cars. I would NEVER buy one new but you should be able to find a very cheap one that is only 2 or 3 years old. I've always had a thing for rear wheel drive, V8 gas hog boats. I'm weird though.
  • drmpdrmp Posts: 187
    and was disappointed by the numb and sloppy steering at 80 mph. I thought steering was drastically improved over previous models. Haven't driven camry at 80 mph so I can't compare but my '99 passport is razor sharp in comparison. What's anybody tell the steering precision on the camry at 80 mph?
  • crv16crv16 Posts: 205
    Year old ex-rentals can be found at a lot of dealers, for pretty cheap. My local Ford dealer is selling 2002 Grand Marquis LS's for 15k. I've seen him selling lesser equipped models for 11 or 12k.

    I'd be hesitant about buying a new one, unless you plan on keeping it quite a while, cuz the first year depreciation hit is a whopper.

    On the plus side, these cars are built like tanks, and should last quite a while.
  • Camry steering may not be sharp compared to a 3 Series, but I think you'll find it significantly sharper than the Grand Marquis. I'm guessing comparable to your Passport.
  • mackabeemackabee Posts: 4,709
    Just drove the vvt-i V6 SE with the 5spd auto tranny today. Great power at initial acceleration! Did not like the way the 5spd tranny is geared. Shifts are too closely spaced once it hits third, fourth and fifth gear. Also noticed quite a bit of downshift lag very similar to V6 Accord (2002) otherwise still a very nice car.
                                : )
                                Mackabee
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