Check Engine light

0patience · June 2002

I'm not saying don't use them, but understand that you get what you pay for. As has been said here dozens of times before, the code doesn't always mean to change the sensor.

A little more to it than that.

If the computer didn't tell them anything, then they shouldn't have chased it. Common sense.
Anyways, I don't know anything about trouble codes, so I will yield to your great expertise.

newfy2 · July 2002

The check engine light has come on again for the 2nd time in 6 weeks. The first time it got a code P0442 Evap System Leak, but no leak could be found. The mechanic thought it could have been a loose gas cap. Now it is back on again, I've tightened the cap, even refueled. There isn't any other driving problem (no stalling, rough idle/acceleration, etc.) I don't really want to spend another $75 to have it reset again, just on the suspicion someone has and is continuing to fiddle with the cap while unattended in the company parking garage. No other problems with the car and all maintenance is current and has been done on schedule.

fleetwoodsimca · July 2002

Is the car out of Emissions Warranty? Ford should fix any emissions system thing for many years and miles! I'll guess you need a new gas cap. I cured my Mercury that way...

newfy2 · July 2002

I never thought about the emissions warranty. It only has 44,000 miles and is 3 years old. Thanks, that's good info to keep in mind in case I get the run-around $$$.

bburton1 · July 2002

had an emissions cel code on 97 accord-dealer tried to fix under warranty-changed a 3 way valve near the cannister. Did not work-the tech was very good-watched him work the problem. When the cel came back on again-bought a new gas cap from honda for about $5 and knock on wood no more cel. Had to pass a biannual emissions inspection just after that and the emissions inspector did not run the car up on the testing device-he just plugged in the testing jack to see if the system was working-I had just cleared the codes-just in case.

Honda extended the warranty on mine to 150K-cars ought to have that kind of warranty for everything-yeah dream on.

opera_house_wk · July 2002

These codes only tell you what the computer thinks it sees. I had the same code and the solenoid that vented the canister had rusted open. That should have been a big leak but the filter screen on the valve was totally clogged with dirt. And what measures this leak? On mine, it is measured indirectly by the flow sensor for the EGR valve. The problem could be a lot of places. Your problem is probably very simple yet, I am not surprised that a tech can not find it.

freeman2c · August 2002

...or anyone else who can answer my humble question. Is it possible for the ECM to have a short and cause the check engine light to come on intermittently? I have a '91 Nissan 240SX with a CEL coming on and off several times a day or sometimes not at all, very sporadic. My dilema: The car failed the Functional Check portion of the smog test because the check engine light came on during the test. This, in the eyes of the state of california, causes the whole test to be labeled failed; even though it passed the remaining Emissions Test and Comprehensive visual. So I take it to a mechanic and he believes in summary that the ECM has a short which is causing the check engine light to come on and off. His write up on the invoice:"Test check engine light inop., scanner test, no codes, test bulb & fuse, o.k. pin test circuit to & from ECM, computer short in computer needs replaced. all sensors test o.k." Apparently the computer isn't storing any codes in memory.
Just wanted to get a second opinion. Could you have a short just affect just the CEL or would it affect other systems as well. The engine doesn't run rough or have any performance issues.
Sorry for the long post. I really appreciate any feed back you might have on this. Thanks a bunch.

cory

0patience · August 2002

Usually when there is a short in the ECM, it will show a driveability symptom.
That isn't saying always. If there is a short, then yes, it can cause the light to intermittantly come on and show no codes.
The problem I see is that the ECM is condemned far too often.
Would need to know some things.
Does it come on under the same circumstances?
After warmed up, under load?
At certain rpms?
These things can all tell a story.
Also, during the Emissions test, did the light come on when they were running a dyno test?

freeman2c · August 2002

first, thank you for addressing my question. I have gone thruogh all the previous posts and see you donate much of your time and please know it is appreciated. The light did come on during a dyno test. It doesn't seem to come on uder the same circumstances. For instance, tonight driving home from work it was blinking on and off constantly. Got home and 20 minutes later go out driving for a few minutes and no light at all; this included accelerations up to 5k rpm. A lot of times the constant blinking will occur when cruising on the freeway, turning 2500-3200 rpm. But sometimes, during accelerations from cruising speed, the light will change from blinking to solidly lit. The frequency of blinking or solidly lit as described above is sporadic. The car idles smoothly at 700rpm when cold or when started from normal operating temperature. I have had this check engine light looked at by another mech. prior to the smog test failure. He couldn't get the light to come on while he had it and also said it wasn't storing any codes. It has been a perplexing problem to say the least. The crux of the problem is I can't get my vehicle registratrion 'til I pass smog or get a waiver from the state. The main reason I am posting is if I spend mucho $$$$ on a "new" ecm, it better fix the problem.

Thanks for your help.

cory

0patience · August 2002

It sounds like it only comes on when the rpms are above a certain point.

To be honest, since it is a 91, it will be tought to get a handle on what is the cause, without going to a dealer and having a monitor put onto the vehicle while you drive.

So, what you will need to do is print out this page and go for a drive. As soon as the light comes on, pull over and perform the diagnostic procedure.

Let us know what you find.

tropicalmonte · August 2002

Anyone had problems with ETS and Check Engine Lights being on simultaneously? At the risk of sounding ignorant, what does "E-T-S" stand for?Doesnt seem to be any problems with engine performance or operation of vehicle however lights have only been on for aprx 10 - 20 miles. Could it be related to poor fitting or bad seal of after market gas cap? In a previous discussion, I read a reference to the importance of pressure being maintained in the gas tank and similar symptoms resulting from a lack of pressure but the dialog isn't clear. Could this be my problem? Thanks in advance.

tropicalmonte · August 2002

For anyone that cares, I stopped by the dealership and purchased a new gas cap. After installing it and driving less than two miles both lights went off.

fleetwoodsimca · August 2002

I had a similar experience with my wife's 2000 Mercury Villager. I got the gas cap under warrantee, because it is part of the emissions control equipment on all the newer cars. You might want to check out whether your Cavalier is still under the emissions warranty and get a refund on the gas cap.

donks53 · August 2002

Help! I just purchased a 94 XLE Camry with 95,000 miles on it. It was well-maintained, with timing belt, water pump and other key essentials replaced at 85,000 miles. Problem is that the "check engine" light has continued to go on after replacing Both oxygen sensors. The computer gets reset then the light comes back on after a few days. Could it be the computer? The after-market alarm system presenting a conflict? Any ideas. I bought the car for my wife and she's having her lawyer draft divorce papers after the car has been in the shop 3 times and had $600 worth of repairs. HELP!!!!!

fleetwoodsimca · August 2002

You've got nothing to worry about. The lawyer will have you single as quickly as possible!

joecug · August 2002

I work at a state emissions test
facility where we perform OBD11 tests
on cars (96 and newer). Often cars
cars fail(and thus are refused
registration ) because the OBD system
has found the sensors to be in "not
ready" condition. Usually this is
soon after vehicle service. We
generally tell the customer to "drive
around some" and return to the
facility for a recheck. Usually by the
time they return the sensors are
back to ready status, but not always.
I'd to develop the best advice I can
so the customer can restore the
ready condition to the car in the
shortest amount of driving time and
avoid a trip to a dealership. Since
we test all OBD11 cars the advice
would have to cover a wide range of
vehicles and reset cycle programs.
It would also have to be simple
enough for most drivers to understand.
Any advice on what to tell these
customers would be appreciated.

0patience · September 2002

http://www.batauto.com/articles/smog.shtml

This article helps alot of folks understand some of what it is all about.

The next step, would be to find out what steps are needed to put their vehicle in "ready" status.

Some vehicles have a procedure for putting them in "test ready" status and information systems like Alldata give a step by step on how to do that.

timmer23 · September 2002

Perhaps this has been brought up in the past three and a half years this thread has been running, but I thought I would mention it:

From AutoZone's website:

"Our Free Diagnostic Service can tell you what

caused your "Check Engine" light to come on and

what to do about it."

http://www2.autozone.com/az/in_our_stores/check_engine.jsp

Tim

0patience · September 2002

Ha ha, well you get what you pay for I guess.
The scanning for codes is fine and all, but you're really going to take advice on what parts to replace from an 18 year old parts counter person? I know, you will all say it is easy, anyone can fix their car. Right?
Scan the codes and replace the part it says. Right?
WRONG! I have heard dozens of times where folks have said they went to so and so and had the codes read and replaced the O2 sensor and the light STILL comes on. WHY?
Because the codes are for the circuit, not the sensor. The sensor is part of the circuit. So, while it is possible the sensor may be the problem, it is more likely that it is a wiring problem or something else.

Now don't get me wrong, use them to have them pull the codes for free, but understand that they are there to sell you parts. They will tell you what they think you should buy. They don't have the experience to make that judgement. They don't spend everyday working on vehicles and seeing the problems.

fleetwoodsimca · September 2002

There just ain't no free lunch!

nikki23 · September 2002

I was thinking of getting a 1997 Mountaineer, however, while I was driving it, the check engine light was on. Was told that it has been on now for about a year and that it has been checked out and nothing was wrong. Does anyone else has this problem? If so, what do you do about it. I am buying from a private party. It has 54,000 miles.

swschrad · September 2002

you would never sell me a car with the $$$ light glowing an angry yellow and having done so for a year. that ought to tell you loads about how the vehicle was maintained, if nothing else.

if they wanna sell it, they either need to provide the dealer's diagnosis sheet, like within the past week, and estimates... or fix the (%^%$( thing.

stay away.

tollelege · September 2002

My 97 Voyager check engine light came on some time ago. I stopped by the local Autozone for a read of the computer and was told that it was EGR related. I went so far as to purchase a new EGR from the local Chrysler dealer. When I went to install it, I found that a vacuum line to the original EGR had been knocked off. After replacing it and returning the new EGR, I asked the Autozone folks to reset my check engine light so that I could determine if the "problem" would be recreated. They explained that they were not allowed by law to do this. Is it possible to clear the error code from the computer myself so that I can determine if I really do have a problem with the EGR? Or is this something only the dealer can do? I can make the light go off by switching the ignition on several times. But the light then illuminates when I start the car. Thanks in advance for any assistance.

mrdetailer · September 2002

I agree that there are some difficulties in purchasing the vehicle without proof of checking. Now I admit to being a little exacting on car maintenence, but whenever the check engine light comes on it's taken into the shop if the usual easy fixes don't work.

To me this means that the owner doesn't take care of the vehicle or do regular maintenence. I sure would check and smell the brake, power steering and transmission fluids to see their condition as well.

Now he probably can't do a lot of damage, but it certainly would affect the price of sale to me.

fleetwoodsimca · September 2002

If nothing else, finding out what the light indicates would be a way to get the price lowered. I would walk away from it, if they refuse to deal with the problem. On the other hand, if you could buy it WAY BELOW dealer trade-in TMV-- well, that has possibilities.

nikki23 · September 2002

Thank you for the imput on the check engine light. However, I should have mentioned that the SUV has been fully maintained. It has been taken to the dealer and they can't seem to find the problem. Any info is appreciated. Thanks!!

0patience · September 2002

nikki23,

If the light is on and the dealer can't find the problem, then they aren't doing their job or don't have a clue.

Can you tell us what trouble codes came up when they scanned it for codes?

If the light has been on for a year, there are codes, no matter what they tell you.

If the problem cannot be found, as fleetwoodsimca said, it would be wise to rethink purchasing this vehicle.

tollelege,

I asked the Autozone folks to reset my check engine light so that I could determine if the "problem" would be recreated. They explained that they were not allowed by law to do this.

There is no law regarding clearing the trouble codes. They have no clue what they are telling you.

Is it possible to clear the error code from the computer myself so that I can determine if I really do have a problem with the EGR?

If you have a scanner or code reader, then you can clear the codes yourself. Some jokers will tell you that you can clear the codes by disconnecting the battery, but on vehicles after 96, that does not work.

Or is this something only the dealer can do?

As stated above, a scanner or code reader is required to clear the codes. Does NOT have to be done by the dealer.

Here is a page that outlines some Palm pilot programs, laptop programs and handheld scanner/code readers. http://www.batauto.com/technical/scaninfo.shtml">Scanner programs and Code readers

Understand that when you get a trouble code, it refers to that circuit/system and not the actual sensor.

fleetwoodsimca · September 2002

The BAT Auto site was outstanding, but I couldn't find the $25.00 programs. Ha! {;O\

mrdetailer · September 2002

Tighten or purchase a new gas cap. Replace the PCV valve. Replace Air Filter. Other things that are slightly more expensive would entail replacing the Oxygen sensors a tuneup, a fuel injector decarbonization, or checking the Mass Air Flow Sensor, and the EGR valves

0patience · September 2002

fleetwoodsimca,
Actually, there are some free downloads for the OBD2 programs. They do require an interface though, but if you are handy with electronics, OBD Automotive Diagnostics shows how to build the interface or they will sell you one.
Also, The VPW, CarBytes & probe downloads on that page has the VPW program that shows how to build an inexpesive interface and they have allowed us to let folks download it from our site. If you look at where it says Download these programs here it will take you to a page to download it. Realize that some of these programs are experimental and require some electronics abilities, but alot of them will also sell you the interface ready made.
The CarCode [obd-2.com] package is a good all around package.

swschrad · September 2002

I think I'll slap the BR interface together and look at things ^H^H^H be ready for trouble. now all I have to do is find a decent 486 laptop or better... so now I have that excuse as well

would have been nice to have had the source for the microprocessor availiable, I think I can burn the PIC microchips series with a toy I already have. but the guy's gotta eat, so I don't begrudge him his code.

fleetwoodsimca · September 2002

HUH? (:oÞ

0patience · September 2002

Did we lose you?
Where do you need clarification? LOL!

rayt2 · September 2002

"Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Open"
This is the code reading I am getting for the "check engine light" on my wife's 2000 Windstar LX w/3.8 V-6, 60k on the odometer. What the heck is this ?? it doesn't seem to effect the running but the light is annoying & I'm sure it has $$$ connected to the fix!

Ray T.

fleetwoodsimca · September 2002

No fair ganging up on me, guys! >:oÞ LOL

swschrad · September 2002

no ganging up meant, just slapping flies on the old keyboard

lots of ways to get tools. you can go down to Parts R Pus and buy a code scanner off the shelf, or you can gasp and fume and do a little self-help and get the functionality by putting some software in a laptop and some parts in a box. batauto shows lots of instances and has some reviews of both options. a nice site, BTW, 0patience.

the OBD-II scanner nowadays is your test light of the computer generation. can't just go hit the dumpster behind the cop shop, pull out a bent flashlight, put in a cardboard spacer and two metal disks with wires attached between the batteries, and use that to find all your faults. that only works in chasing brake lights that don't go on nowadays.

I had all but three parts for the scanner interface box that BR has whomped up in my junkbox, so it's a no-brainer for me to order those three, find a cheapo 486 laptop someplace (that is, a laptop with a computer chip from 1994), and spend a few hours' labor to end up with a code tool.

if the detail stuns, just relax and look at the pretty lights until you forget that I used to build all my own test equipment, and then think of it as the way '70s computer refugees play in their electronic junk piles, instead of make submarines in their basements because they found a whole pile of welding rods

.

0patience · September 2002

swschrad & fleetwoodsimca,
Thanks for the comments on the site

There are several open source programs for OBD2, the VPW program and the OBD Diagnostics programs I am pretty sure they are open source. I know the VPW is. The OBD diagnostics site has pretty indepth info on making a unit.
There are alot more good systems coming out too. I like the palm systems that are coming out. We keep looking for new systems to check up on and see what is good for the investment. If you guys run into anything that I can check out, let me know. (from my profile):)
The bad thing is, OBD3 is not too far off and all the scan programs will start all over again. If you are looking to buy a palm system, check out the Auterra scan program for the Palm PC. It is a nice unit, does alot and I like the fact that it is a unit you could carry around in your pocket.
I have a laptop that is pretty beatup because of sliding off seats onto the floor.

fleetwoodsimca · September 2002

Thanks for putting up with me having a little fun pretending that my lack of knowledge on automotive/diagnostic computer stuff was a matter of you guys "ganging up" on me! I do have a Craftsman digital multimeter that came with a program floppy. I discovered that my ancient 386 Tandy 2500 (my very first computer, circa 1991) would handle it. I can put it all on a roll-around cart I bought for the purpose. That would be a starting point, were I to "scope the happenings" from the meter on the CRT screen. I would love to have a minimum expense interface tool to wire to the same rig for reading codes and turning off the accursed CTE light. I suspect the whole thing is just too expensive and too involved for me to realistically do it all. I suspect from what you have said, a 486 is minimum. A palm computer? Hmmmmmmmmmm... this would be a good excuse to get one, eh? {;^]

0patience · September 2002

Hey fleet,
I knew better than that. LOL!
But it was fun discussing it. Plus you never know, someone may come upon our bantering and discover some info they can use. HA HA.
Well, it sounded good anyway.

About the expense..
OBD Diagnostics sells the interface for about $80, give or take.
Once you have the interface, then you can upload their program and run it. There are also about half dozen free downloads for the program in various phases of developement. So for about $100 and an old laptop, you could have a scan tool. A 486 is about as low as you want to go, because I am thinking that it requires at least Win95 to operate the program.
The Palm systems are great and the cost of them is starting to go down. Give it time, when the OBD3 systems start hitting the market, the OBD2 systems will be dirt cheap. LOL!

swschrad · September 2002

your tandy can run DOS... and that's all that's needed for a single floppy version of the BR electronics interface chip to your serial port. I clicked WinZip on it, looks like all the files needed would fit on a 360K 5-1/4 inch DD diskette, if you had an old XT computer it would even run that code.

not as pretty or as nice, but it should get the codes, then you look up with the second program what they do, as I read the file titles.

I defer to 0patience as to what is the coolest tool, as he's been playing with 'em all and has the shop experience needed to evaluate their usefulness as well. I just want to get my hands on something and see what it does. always have been more "ethernet" rather than "token ring," or "screw the manual, let's fire it up and see what it looks like."

different interfaces and programs, slightly different requirements... but if you can get Win95 running on anything, you probably have your pick of the ragpickers' lineup.

you can also get a portable scope interface from Radio Shack for something like a hundred dollars that will put the traces up on a laptop screen, but that would require win95 or win98 at a minimum for much utility.

really, if you are looking for something that would be a semi- or fully- commercial tool, at this point it's worth looking for something that will run on a Palm-type platform... a Palm, Handspring, or Zaurus for instance. that's one lab-coat pocket full with a "bump on a wire" interface, all-day battery life, and not too many buttons to push and screw up your diags. putting code readers on a laptop is rather like a 'Russian hardware' approach, and laptops break easier and cost more to replace.

fleetwoodsimca · September 2002

Many thanks for the encouragement. I hope to start "playing" with this stuff in the near future.

jasonsilb · September 2002

I have read as much as I could from the beginning of this string on check engine lights. I have a the same problem as many....I have had the O2 sensor changed, and every diagnostic run possible...then after the 4th time, the mechanic secretly pulled the bulb on mine! Needless to say, I was p'd off! I got my money back w/out too much trouble and then started my quest again. About this time (light is still on), I started to notice my engine every once in a while, bog down or chug at idle speed, and almost stall. This happened 3 or so times. Now I have a decent shop that I trust, but after all the diagnostics again, and nothing showing up (at all!), they decided to do the additive to the fuel system and evacuate the crud out. This made the car run better until it died at low speed 1 week after additive/evac. scenario. The shop said it was most likely too rich with the additive in this tank of gas, and to run it out and fill up again and see what happens. Well, 1 day later the light has come on again!!!! I trust these guys, but don't want to start pouring $cash$ into the vehicle. It's been completely perfect up until this crazy light has come on. Anyone have any additional thoughts or suggestions. I am totally convinced this may be a never-ending nightmare. If the car was running fine I wouldn't really worry too much...but it has been eratic lately, and don't know if it's fuel sys. related or what? Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

swschrad · September 2002

sounds like the shop is saying whatever comes into their heads at this point to get you out for another week IMHO.

the batauto.com site has a review on a "why it died" detector, but the lead length and stuff is not designed for leaving it hooked up for weeks while you drive. pity, because that item, although expensive for Joe Driver, would be exactly what is called for as a starting place. however, your car doesn't die often enough and regularly enough for that tool, meant to be used with the hood up, to be worth buying.

having said that....

you have got to be losing either fuel, spark, or command to have this conk out. you have not mentioned whether there were ever any codes set and what they are... the fault codes are essential to chasing the issue. intermittents are hell on earth to get after.

if there WERE none, you have an issue for sure. if there WERE CODES, but the shop never let you in on what they were, shame on them double and underlined. I don't believe in the cult of "shut up and pay, you don't need to know what we do and what we know." and for that reason I would not go back.

if you don't want to buy a reader for the codes, and have an autozone store nearby, they can read the codes and tell them to you. they want to sell you the parts their magic crib sheet says are related... but the codes only say WHERE TO LOOK for issues.

if you want to shotgun parts until you fix it, run out of money, or run out of patience, at this point... I would unplug all sensor connections and clean them, lightly spray the contacts with WD-40 and put them back together. do the same with the connections to the coil pack on the low voltage side, and the crank position sensor. if it fails again, and you don't want or can't chase the codes, I would replace the ignition coil and distributor if equipped, and see what happens.

jasonsilb · September 2002

Thank you for your response and ideas, it's much appreciated. As far as codes go, no, I didn't really get anything....partly my fault for not asking. The 1st shop (the crooks) said it only posted something about one bank running ever so slightly rich. they were the ones who replaced the O2 sensor (and removed the bulb on me). The new shop, although good, didn't really speak of a code. They said today that they did start at square 1, with the induction cleaning attempt and they will now take it to the next level. They said they will take into account the $350 I just dropped on it, and hopefully they will not start nickel and diming me.
I think the 'uplug sensor/cleaning" scenario makes sense, but don't know if I can find something other than a chiltons that would show locations of these. Any ideas on that? Hopefully with technology and information these days I can find that.
Thanks again....I will push on in this quest.

rayt2 · September 2002

Code P1518 - "Intake Manifold Runner Control Stuck Open"
This is the code reading I am getting for the "check engine light" on my wife's 2000 Windstar LX w/3.8 V-6, 60k on the odometer. What the heck is this ?? it doesn't seem to effect the running but the light is annoying & I'm sure it has $$$ connected to the fix!
I posted awhile back to Mr. Shiftright but at this point any motorheads w/code knowledge out there HELP !

Ray T.

Ray T.

0patience · September 2002

jasonsilb,
We can help you, but you have to help us. We need to know what trouble codes were retreived.
If we have the trouble codes, not the definitions, we will have a starting point to go from. The trouble codes SHOULD be printed on your work order.

swschrad,
The "why it died" [What Quits First] monitor,
They have made the leads longer on the new units, mainly because we requested that we could get some with longer leads. That unit is a great unit. Pricey? Well, yes. But for what it does, it pays for itself.

rayt2,
P1518 - Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC)Malfunction (Stuck open)
The IMRC system is monitored for failure during continuous, key ON engine OFF or key ON engine running self-test.
The test fails when the signal on the monitor pin is less than an expected claibrated range at closed throttle.
Possible causes of P1518
IMRC monitor signal circuit shorted to PWR GND or SIG RTN
Damaged IMRC actuator
Damaged PCM.
The Intake Manifold Runner Control (IMRC) Electric Actuated system consists of a remote mounted motorized actuator with an attaching cable for each housing on each bank. Some applications will use one cable for both banks. The cable or linkage attaches to the housing butterfly plate levers. The 2.0L (2V) Focus/Escort IMRC uses a motorized actuator mounted directly to a single housing without the use of a cable. Each IMRC housing is an aluminum casting with two intake air passages for each cylinder. One passage is always open and the other is opened and closed with a butterfly valve plate. The housing uses a return spring to hold the butterfly valve plates closed. The motorized actuator houses an internal switch or switches, depending on the application, to provide feedback to the PCM indicating cable and butterfly valve plate position.

Below approximately 3000 rpm , the motorized actuator will not be energized. This will allow the cable to fully extend and the butterfly valve plates to remain closed. Above approximately 3000 rpm , the motorized actuator will be energized. The attaching cable will pull the butterfly valve plates into the open position. Some vehicles will activate the IMRC near 1500 rpm .

I know, for the most part, you are going huh?
It means the actuator in the manifold is possibly hanging up, due to carbon. There is a possibility that a cleaner, such as GM's Top Engine cleaner will knock the carbon loose and get it back work, but not likely. There are a bunch of tests to do to determine for sure what the cause is.

rayt2 · September 2002

Thanks for the expalnation, bottom line this has happened once so far and not returned, I was concerned since I can't get it into the shop for two weeks and the wife is going to be putting roughly a 1000 miles on within next 2 weeks, any harm being done in your opinion till then, or is it gonna cause a highway break down when I least expect it??? Hate when this stuff happens and I just can't turn a screw to make an adjustment, prisioner to a computer I think I heard said before................

Ray T.

0patience · September 2002

rayt2,
I won't say that it won't cause a breakdown, but more than likely it will create a poor performance and economy situation.
You may [don't get your hopes up] be able to run GM's Top Engine cleaner thru the system and prevent any further problems.
If you chose to use the Top Engine cleaner, follow the directions to the letter. It comes in 2 types, aerosol and liquid. The aerosol is the easiest to deal with.

jasonsilb · September 2002

Thanks for the suggestion. I will check the previous work orders/receipts and see what I can find...if not, I will specifically ask what they get this next monday (when I am taking it in again). BTW, it has died on me one more time....this time I was just backing out of a parking spot, after just starting the engine. It does still start back up no-prob. though, and seems to be running okay the rest of the time. I will quit babbling, and go get some codes to present....then maybe we'll have a starting point here.

jasonsilb · September 2002

0patience, I did find that the most recent shop noted on the receipt that the code which registered was pointing to the 02 sensor. This is what I had replaced at the 1st shop, and it didn't fix anything.
New update....I finally got my bulb back (or a new one) from the shop (crooks) which removed my last check engine light bulb from behind the console. I was putting it back in the open spot (4WD light socket) from where I swapped out the bulb which is now in my check engine light socket. Upon doing this the plug on the back of the speedometer console came slightly out and I plugged it back in tight. I turned the ignition to accessory to check the new bulb and make sure it was working. I realized that the check engine light was now off upon starting the vehicle. So I took it out to check the fillament and integrity...all was fine. I put it back in and made sure it came on upon accessory...it did. Now it's still off and the 4WD light is fine....it just reset itself somehow. Is this from me unplugging the console for a short time? I don't get it? But I will continue to monitor it. Anyone have any ideas?
Thanks as always for your comments,
Jason

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