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Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    B9 looks best by a wide margin. I would sell my condo to buy one of those. If the wife let me. :cry:

    Maybe I'll stick to the plan to buy half with Brenda. ;)

    B9 actually resembles Mazda's own Ibuki concept, a little, except the face. It's just a sketch, let's remember.

    Impreza looks a bit busy up front. I don't like the convoluted lights, too many lines/seams on the face. Needs a clean up.

    MPV looks better. Just needs a little touch up on the split lights, those look odd. You can see the resemblance to the Tribeca in the J-curve shoulders and the D-pillar. I'd consider one, but I think I prefer the Forester. Unless the MPV was significantly roomier.

    -juice
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    njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    I'm in shock, swampy. You're not getting soft on us, are ya? :D

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/d/79170
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    http://www.autocarmagazine.com/news_article.asp?na_id=214462
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Epsilon is pure GM. That's what the G6 and Malibu ride on. The current Saab 9-3 already uses it.

    They'd better come up with something more than VersaCrap.

    -juice
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    I only have a few minutes here at work so this is quick & dirty-- not literal. I'm a little rusty too, so I apologize.

    I think this is very close to some american press articles I've read recently. highlights:

    subaru hopes to sell 750,000 cars per year by 2007 and 900,000 by 2009, with 100,000 of those in europe.

    in germany, the largest european market besides the UK and Switzerland, Subaru sells from 10,000 to 18,000 units.

    the new boxer motor is 160PS (about 157 SAE HP) and in 2007 there should be a new impreza styled by the former Alfa Romeo designer Andreas Zappatinas. there will be a sedan and coupe and also a minivan and truck (maybe they mean SUV-- "Kombi") coming. also a roadster to compete with the Mazda MX-5 (miata).

    the B9 tribeca coming to europe with a standard 250PS engine, but no plans are in order for a diesel powerplant because it is too expensive to develop.

    they are also improving the economy class, too. A new R1 minicar will arrive with a four cylinder 660cc engine and turbocharger.

    ~Colin
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    njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    kinda like my brother trying to convince me to go on a blind date, hey her nose isnt that bad....

    but everyone who has seen it has said no biggee

    i really like the lines on the new models, in drawings, just hope i never see them in pics :P
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    volkovvolkov Member Posts: 1,306
    Hey, I thought I got dibs on 1/3 of the B9SC! Then again, what motor do you think it'd get if it ever got produced? 2.0T or 2.5T?
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    ladywclassladywclass Member Posts: 1,713
    since when did *I* agree to split it THREE ways????
    I'm not sure it's proper for me to be a part of this arrangement!
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    saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    Getting a little rusty but:

    I believe the most interesting part of the article was a four cylinder turbodiesel for the 2007 year and a six cylinder turbodiesel for 2008.

    An amusing comment on the "thirsty 250 hp six cylinder gasoline engine until 2008". The German press thought the W8 Passat (like I had before my VDC) was notorious for high fuel consumption. Perhaps the use of "thirsty" is mild. :D
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jessica Simpson has a hideous nose, if you look closely. Yet she seems to do just fine on the red carpet. I guess you look at the whole package (even though she's not my type BTW).

    But she can't sing all that well so never mind, bad example.

    Sorry, but a threesome does sound kinda twisted. :blush:

    -juice
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    once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    that is interesting. I wonder who FHI is going to get their TDI engines from? Not sure they can get them designed and built in such a short time frame, not to mention the steep cost.

    But all manufacturers NEED TDI by about 2007. It will be, IMO and from what I hear and see already, the most desireable engine by far.

    John
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    there's a huge distribution problem though. most parts of the country cannot store and distribute diesel in high volume-- which causes prices to be higher, and availability lower-- it's a chicken and egg problem.

    need more diesel passenger vehicles to justify spending more on infrastructure, but no one will spend on the infrastructure when the sales of diesel cars/light trucks is so low.

    since the 50s, the infrastructure has delivered gasoline in a huge ratio to diesel. it's going to take a long time to change that--

    ~c
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    njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    hmm I would think that with diesel trucks out there anyone who lives near an interstate wouldn't have any problems getting diesel. Maybe I'm just lucky in that I can find diesel just about anywhere I've travelled in the NC->Maine corridor

    -mike
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    of gas stations offer diesel? Anyone know? 30 or so?

    I have no idea, just guessing from my observations around here.

    At least the extra range offsets that issue somewhat.

    -juice
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    locke2clocke2c Member Posts: 5,038
    it's more like 15% around here. it also costs more than premium unleaded.

    ~c
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Wow, here it's 20-40 cents less per gallon than premium, and it's plentiful probably 50-60% of stations have it.

    -mike
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    once_for_allonce_for_all Member Posts: 1,640
    I get it at $1.50 delivered, no road taxes. I have a 200 gallon tank sitting there right now that I use to fill up my tractor. Not even red colored.

    I wouldn't use it illegally, but here in ag land in Central Cal we know how to get diesel.

    John
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Found the following over at nabisco from somebody with sources...

    Impreza:

    * Major facelift (we knew that!)
    * The engine will have Active Valve Lift System (again, we knew that)
    * Side airbags will be standard.
    * The base model will not be called RS. It will be called 2.5i impreza.

    Legacy:

    * The engine will have active valve lift system
    * 17 inch wheel standard same as GT.
    * Immoblizer.
    * 8 way power seat on the driver's seat and enhanced front seats for improved comfort and safety.

    (outback will have all the improvements of legacy)

    The worse thing is the price will go up.

    Bob
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    alpha01alpha01 Member Posts: 4,747
    In terms of the Legacy, the AVLS and Power Drivers seat are GREAT upgrades. I wonder if the comment regarding safety will play out to improve the Legacy's rather umpressive "Marginal" showing in the IIHS side impact? The Immobilizer is a good feature as well, but I dont know if I agree with going to 17 inch tires as standard on the lowest trim... I think they are a good differentiator between the N/A and turbocharged models. And as a base tire, replacement 17s will likely be more expensive, is that correct?
    Then again, I do suppose Subaru is "Movin on UP!!!"

    Joe
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    saedavesaedave Member Posts: 694
    I believe those diesel engines have been in development for some time: There was an interview in Automotive Engineering International with a Fugi executive that gave a hint.

    The article in German stated that the mid 160s hp 4 cyl. TDI is a little over 2 liters displacement which suggests that the old 2.2 liter tooling could have been adapted for manufacturing. And turbos have been part of Subaru technology since inception. Isuzu diesel technology may have been provided through the GM link.
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Costs about the same as premium around me, some times a tad more. That unfortunately offsets some of the savings due to better efficiency. You still get the range, though.

    Bob - no surprises, just pretty much what we'd been predicting. So the Legacy gets that new Forester's engine right away, no waiting. And the Impreza line up now resembles the Legacy more closely.

    -juice
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    c_hunterc_hunter Member Posts: 4,487
    And a downside of the 17" wheels/tires is that the ride gets quite a bit harsher. I thought the Legacy had a decent ride/handling balance as it was.

    Craig
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Interesting info. I wonder what changes will come to the GT and OBXT. These changes to the base model certainly narrows the gap between the two trims.

    I wonder how much of a price increase they ask? $500? $1000?

    Ken
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Does seem a bit extreme for the base Legacy. I wonder if they'll soften up the springs to offset that a bit.

    For the Forester they mention they tuned the suspension for a softer ride yet it kept the same 16" rims, even on the XT!

    Now that makes no sense at all.

    -juice
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    it is still a rumor after all. I would be verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry surprised if they jack up price just to add 17in rim. those who buy base legacy doesn't care for 17in.

    subaru is stupid if they go this route & make base legacy even more expensive17in
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    move the Legacy/Outback 2.5i upmarket, which is what Subaru is doing. I'd be very surprised if they are the same 17" rims that the Legacy GT/Outback XT/Outback H6 gets, so I'm sure visually there will still be a difference between those models.

    Bob
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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    Good point, juice. Currently, the GT and base Legacy use the same springs but different struts. Perhaps they won't change anything.

    Maybe the 17" wheels would be part of the Ltd. package only.

    Ken
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    atlgaxtatlgaxt Member Posts: 501
    Looking at the fact that new buyers of '05 Foresters are reporting $2,000 lower out the door prices than us early adapters that bought '04 units, I hope Subaru is looking at adding content without raising prices. I hate to see Subaru trying to raise their prices and then falling into the incentive game, as that cheapens the brand (the exact opposite of what they are trying to do) and intensifies depreciation.
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    rochcomrochcom Member Posts: 247
    Maybe I am wrong, but I see a disturbing trend in Subaru design and marketing. The company seems to be heading upscale in features and pricing on most, it not all, models, and I cannot help but make the comparison between the changes at Subaru and those at Saab.

    I have always been impressed by the similarlities in design philosophy between Saab and Subaru, and the number of former Saab owners (like myself) who now own Subarus. I think many owners switched because Saab went upscale and they were not upscale buyers. But when Saab made the move, the number of new buyers they obtained did not make up for many of the old customers they lost.

    I have no problem with Subaru making some upscale models to increase its range of offerings. But, Subarus are very practical vehicles, and if all models go upscale, the company will lose buyers who either cannot afford or do not want the additional features.
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    This is an excellent point. I don;t understand why can't keep base model custmoers & still have upscale models to attract new customers. How difficult is that ?
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    The front overhang will house the turbo motor's intercooler, which will be moved from its current position at the top of the engine bay.

    The picture has a gigantic hood scoop and no FMIC?????

    So, is the picture the facelifted version or the "all-new" one? Looks like a hatchback to me.

    DaveM
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I'm sure it's a pretty good representation of what the all-new (USDM) '08 model will look like.

    Latest news from someone (supposedly "in the know") from nabisco is the "facelifted" model will be for MY06 & MY07 (USDM).

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I had to remove some stuff from earlier post due to copyright issues.

    image

    http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/55824/impreza_hot_hatch_on_way.html

    Bob
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That scoop is pretty narrow, perhaps it's a CAI/RamAir (even though a ram air does nothing on a turbo car) ?

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    image

    The bottom two are the current Legacy and Outback. Just above them, the R1/R2. Above the R1/R2 is the Tribeca. Just above the Tribeca I say is the all-new Forester (MPV?), and above it being the rumored Impreza hatchback.

    This suggests that the body types were locked in a couple of years ago.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    If so the Forester looks a lot like a mini-Tribeca.

    -juice
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    The Tribeca's profile was right under our nose this whole time. It came out exactly like that, too.

    -juice
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    njswamplandsnjswamplands Member Posts: 1,760
    funny you said NOSE
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    But that nose is over and above any other... ;)

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    from another Subie dealer:

    My sources have confirmed to me that nav will be available in the following models of 06 Legacy/Outback-
    Legacy GT LTD
    Outback XT LTD
    Outback LL bean
    Outback VDC as standard equipment

    Sort of what I expected.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Should be stand-alone, but at least it's not just the VDC model.

    -juice
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    i think the MPV will be in addition to the forester. becos Forester boxy shape is known for its handling, i doubt if subaru will mess with that & change to an MPV.

    Also, if you notice the product portfolio picture, except for legacy/outback, each picture represents a new model: r1/r2, tribeca, mpv(i assume it is new, not replacing the forester), impreza hatch
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    sweet_subiesweet_subie Member Posts: 1,394
    worth the wait for me !!!! for my XT Ltd
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    There are two more vehicles in that chart, could be Forester and Impreza, or could be Forester and MPV, or MPV and Impreza. Who knows? Forester might remain boxy.

    -juice
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    my new info is limited to models and not content as this time.Here are a few more tid bits
    2005 Outback 3.0R sedan=2006 Outback LL Bean sedan
    2006 Legacy GT available in LTD only
    2006 Outback XT available in LTD only
    2006 Outback base 3.0R wagon added (auto only)
    2006 Legacy 2.5i SE added (not sure content yet)
    2006 Legacy 2.5i LTD available in 4EAT only

    Interesting that there is a 2.5 SE. I like that they brought back the base H-6 Outback wagon. I wonder if it will have cloth seats? Not sure how I feel about base GT and XT being dropped... It looks like the 5EAT will not yet replace the 4EAT.

    Bob
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    dcm61dcm61 Member Posts: 1,567
    Outback VDC as standard equipment

    So now it will cost two arms and a leg just to get VDC in the Legacy / Outback. :(

    Unless they lower the price of the Outback VDC, it will be cheaper to buy a Tribeca if you want VDC.

    DaveM
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    dcabdcab Member Posts: 101
    I took this to mean that VDC will be a standard feature on all Outbacks. This is what I was waiting for so please don't tell me that I was wrong!
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