Subaru Crew - Future Models II

paisan · April 2002

Basically GM owned about 20% of Isuzu back in the 80s and slowly creaped up to 49%. Isuzu was also left alone as long as their sales were doing fine, it's only been in the last 5 years that GM reall castrated their marketing and what not. I would just hate to see subaru go the same way so I put out the warning.

GM owns 20% of FHI. FHI owns 100% of Subaru so GM owns 20% of Subaru.

-mike

lucien2 · April 2002

http://www.i-club.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=171440

bluesubie · April 2002

I believe another web site had an SoJ or FHI person saying they are working on a 5EAT.
Wonder how long it would take to get to the U.S. though?

-Dennis

rsholland · April 2002

if this is true, we won't see a 5EAT until the next generation shows up.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

Yes, use more aluminum! 150 lbs lighter would be a big step forward.

5 speed auto is overdue IMO.

-juice

armac13 · April 2002

Greedy aren't we. Reduce the weight by 50 lbs. and you want 150. Increase rear leg room by 1" and you want 3". Add 5 hp. and you want 50! Soon Subaru will get wise and start introducing retro changes - reduce highway mpg from 27 to 24 so that you will say "That's not too bad, but if they had reduced it by 10 mpg, it would be even better." LOL

TheOnlyRoss

ateixeira · April 2002

You read my mind. Yes, I want all that stuff, and keep the prices flat. ;-)

The article actually says the weight reduction goal was even higher, but that 150 lbs would be achieved.

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

If that rumor is true, I wonder if the next Legacy will be up-sized to be a closer match for current Accords and Legacys? There seems to be a clear trend for Japanese family-oriented (Accord, etc.) vehicles to be growing. A perfect example is the new Altima. It's much bigger than the old model. And... the Legacy is Subaru's answer to the "family car" question...

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

At 110" the Altima's wheelbase is particularly long. It's quite roomy, with acres of legroom in back.

So maybe Subaru feels some pressure. I'd like to see better space efficiency without much growth in size, and weight should be a priority because it's a bit on the high side right now.

-juice

lark6 · April 2002

<<Greedy aren't we. Reduce the weight by 50 lbs. and you want 150. Increase rear leg room by 1" and you want 3". Add 5 hp. and you want 50! Soon Subaru will get wise and start introducing retro changes - reduce highway mpg from 27 to 24 so that you will say "That's not too bad, but if they had reduced it by 10 mpg, it would be even better." LOL>>

I just want paint that doesn't chip and scratch when I stare at it long enough.

Ed

ateixeira · April 2002

Nah, that's just cosmetics, gimme hardware any day.

I'll do what I can to keep it looking good, but I think the engine, tranny, and brakes are more substantive.

Ed wants the good ol' days back, the days of guilt-free solvent-based paint that lasts forever and pollutes like crazy but doesn't biodegrade! Bring back the Studebakers! ;-)

-juice

ateixeira · April 2002

PS The L's cladding is unpainted and virtually teflon-coated. What about a fully clad, matte black "tough guy" model?

lark6 · April 2002

juice, you and I both know that there are many other automakers whose vehicles, also painted with environmentally friendly solvent systems, have finishes much more durable than what we have.

BTW, it's not the cladding paint that looks bad, it's the upper body surfaces. Daylight saving time gave me enough daylight to wash the car yesterday evening and I was just appalled at the sandblasted finish of the hood. Maybe salting is better than sanding in winter, given the current state of paint and rustproofing.

Ed

rsholland · April 2002

What triggered my comment/question regarding the increased size of the next Legacy, was that Subaru is considering increasing the "width" on their home-market Legacys. This is new for Subaru; in the past they've steadfastly keep the width as it currently is, to avoid increased (home-market) taxes.

So, if they increase the width, my guess is they would also increase other dimensions too.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

My finish is pretty good considering the abuse I put it through. I know people complain about the paint, but I'm not one of them.

-juice

kate5000 · April 2002

I found the Honda's paint to be no better and no worse than Subie's paint. A couple that bought my old Loyale even commented on a great shape of finish -- and that car was never garaged or repainted!

bluesubie · April 2002

Did anyone happen to look under the hood in case there was a surprise there? Maybe 2.5GT doesn't necessarily mean N/A GT.

-Dennis

paisan · April 2002

We tried to fix it and pull the cord but no luck

-mike

ateixeira · April 2002

I popped the hood on one of the 2003s, but it may have been the Outback. Looked familiar to me.

-juice

bluesubie · April 2002

it's likely that there was a pre-production '04 S/C under it. Maybe they're just tinkering and will drop a turbo in it. :-)

-Dennis

ateixeira · April 2002

Wishful thinking, but I hope you're right!

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

in Indiana.

http://www.detnews.com/2002/autosinsider/0204/12/autos-464086.htm

<< "It's a good move for Fuji Heavy to enter the pickup truck market in the U.S., but it needs to release more models in segments it hasn't joined yet to gain more customers in the U.S. and Japan," said Hideaki Aonuma, an analyst at Tokyo-Mitsubishi Securities Co. >>

So maybe there *IS* hope for my dream of a future Subie Wrangler-killer...

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

So basically they are forecasting 20k Bajas per year sold. That's achievable, though I'm sure with an H6 it could be closer to Forester sales levels (about 50k per year).

-juice

lark6 · April 2002

Bob: Subie Wrangler-killer makes more sense than a mid-size or full-size pickup to compete with Big Three plus Toyota plus Nissan plus...? Maybe a Subaru version of the old Toyota FJ40?

Ed

rsholland · April 2002

Exactly. I'd love to see Subaru do such a vehicle. I think they could do it without too much effort, and I think the Wrangler is ripe for plucking...

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

To kill the Wrangler it would have to be the off road champ. I don't see Subaru going in that direction.

How 'bout something even more quirky like the Borrego? Or bring back the SVX nameplate on a WRX coupe (with moonroof and leather)?

I see new products in niche areas. I doubt they'd make a 2 door Forester because those are built in Gunma and would carry hefty taxes.

Sportage 2 door failed, RAV4 2 door failed even with Toyota's mighty marketing. Vitara 2 door sales are insignificant. Rodeo Sport and Amigo never sold very well despite the nice V6 and IMO good styling.

-juice

lark6 · April 2002

Oh yeah, we are working on a confluence of thought here, Bob. This would be the "new BRAT" the Baja could have been. Removable rear roof section in canvas or fiberglass/aluminum, removable rear bench. Locking diffys, the whole nut. Let's brainstorm this puppy...

Ed

rsholland · April 2002

is a good step in that direction. It wouldn't take a whole lot to make it a super off-roader. Subaru could do it.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

OK, I'll put the bean counter in me away for a while. Amuse me...

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

I'd love too, but I've been beaten up too many times before going down this path by folks here.

Let's just say I agree with you 100%

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

I'll accept blame for that, but seriously - I'll put any mention of cost control away for the entire day. Go wild.

Say GM gave Subaru ALL the R&D funds, what new models would you like to see?

This is officially a bean-counter free zone and a brain storming session, no criticism of creative ideas allowed, no matter how costly.

Offer expires midnight tonight.

-juice

lark6 · April 2002

Alright Bob, we'll leave it at that. I'll stick my neck out this afternoon with my thoughts for a Subaru "rural delivery" vehicle that's been brewing in my mind for years, even before I thought of Subaru as a likely maker.

Ed

rsholland · April 2002

(it's not hard to twist my arm)

Take the Borrego as a starting point: give it a good set of dual-range *low* gears, and it's pretty much a done deal.

It already has large diameter wheels and tires, so ground clearance is very good. The 2.5L engine is excellentbut to make things interesting, let's say Subaru offers a supercharged version, as shown in the ST-X. That would give them to excellent powertrains that would match or better anything from Jeep.

I really don't think it's out of Subaru's capability to offer something like this. The other thing, Subaru would get a HUGE amount of publicity over this. Nobody has really challenged this "American" icon. The early Suzukis were hardly a challenge. I honestly think Subaru could mount a credible vehicle that could take the Wrangler to task.

Also, most Wranglers today are used as play toys, much like the Borrego concept.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

Across the board: all autos 5 speed shiftronics. Manuals 6 speed. AVCS on all 4 cylinders for 175hp. AVCS on H6 for 230hp. Hill holder on all manuals.

WRX: STi immediately. Make heated leather and moonroof factory options, a la carte in any model.

Forester: turbos and H6 ASAP. "Turbo" model is a sporty package with Premium's equipment. H6 model is an off-road Sport model with low range, 6 speed manual, aluminum skid plates, lift kit, taller springs, front LSD, equipped back-to-basics with vinyl seat and hose-out interior. 2 door model also offered (Sport only) with folding cloth top.

Outback Sport: make it like the Forester Sport.

RS: gets the rear LSD back.

All Imprezas: immediate face-lift to look like that sketch from i-Club with the more aggressive front end.

Legacy: extended wheelbase model an option, 4" wheelbase stretch for limo-like leg room in back. H6 with 6 speed manual stand-alone option across the board.

Baja: H6 now. Mid-gate like Avalance. Use 4" longer wheelbase from Legacy extended, 8" longer bed. 5 seats.

SVX: yeah baby, 2 door WRX with leather and moonroof.

SVX roadster: hey, sky's the limit. Clever targe/convertible top like the old RX7 had, so it's a coupe, targe, or roadster.

Borrego: or Baby Baja. WRX powertrain in a 2 seater.

2005 SUW: brought forward to this fall, with magic folding 3rd seats and 230hp H6 standard, turbo 400hp H6 option with SIX speed auto. DVD players on back of all head rests. Navi option. This is Subaru's Phaeton all-out model.

-juice

paisan · April 2002

It doesn't have to actually be able to go off-road. As loud as the Wrangler Off-roaders are there are at least 90/100 owners who use it to go to the mall or beach parking lot. The other thing about the wrangler that makes it a wrangler is that it is a Jeep. The nameplate makes it sell more than anything due to the "image" it promotes.

-mike

ateixeira · April 2002

Rural delivery? Please elaborate Ed.

What about more creative ideas?

The Subaru Bulldog Baja. Start with a Baja but have dog kennels built in.

The Subaru Baja Bar: have a whole bar built into the back of it, serve drinks and snacks at construction sites.

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

Juice must have had an extra glass of Juicy Juice this morningjust full of energy and ideas.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

What about a Forester "Contractor Edition", with 3 tail gates, one on the back smaller ones on each side, with built-in shelves? Could be used as a portable book store, maybe a marketing tie-in with Borders?

Hmm, for car shows, the Baja Surfer, with 10 internet-connected PCs for auto show lobbies? I actually saw a stretch Navigator set up for that.

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

ateixeira · April 2002

See how much the bean counter in me holds me back usually? ;-)

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

I think Juice may have overdosed on Juicy Juice.

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

But a quirky one.

OK, it seats 7, but all chairs are captain's chairs and can be moved into many configurations. Seats can be folded and mounted on the roof in emergencies (hey, it's creative).

VTD AWD and VDC, H6 with 5 speed shiftronic, turbo option to get that milk fast!

Hose-out vinyl interior. Leather and cloth option. DirecTV edition offered, with satellite TV and DVD player. Built-in booster seats (please!) in all 7 captain's chairs, folding out like Volvo's.

Instead of sheet metal - a full cladding option (could be for all Subies, especially Forester Sport). This is all teflon, unpainted, bullet proof. Kid resistant. ;-)

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

assuming this guy is correct, and besides a Wrangler-killer, what other "niche" markets should Subaru explore?

Bob

<< "It's a good move for Fuji Heavy to enter the pickup truck market in the U.S., but it needs to release more models in segments it hasn't joined yet to gain more customers in the U.S. and Japan," said Hideaki Aonuma, an analyst at Tokyo-Mitsubishi Securities Co. >>

ateixeira · April 2002

Hmm, what about seats that fold down magically from the roof, instead of up from the floor. You could have a totally flat, sealed floor surface that could be hosed out and of course carry plywood.

Heck, the floor could BE plywood, so you could install tie downs anywhere.

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

I've often thought that a cargo guard could be hinged from the roof, and could snap up into the rear cargo area roof, when not needed.

Bob

kens · April 2002

I'd say make VTD standard on all Subaru models -- auto and manual.

What I'd love to have is the R&D team modify my Subaru of choice and keep it under warranty!

Ken

ateixeira · April 2002

Cool idea: expand SPT into an in-house tuner that installs and warrants the parts. Train maybe one dealer in each region to do this, and offer performance packages for every car in the lineup.

The roof area is unexplored. Sun glass holders are just the tip of the ice berg. Clocks, map lights, did you see the Freelander's map pockets up there?

-juice

rsholland · April 2002

the idea of the retractable cargo blind that retracts into the side, like the Chevy Blazer (not TrailBlazer). I think that was one of GMs best ideas ever... so, they then decided to drop it from the new TrailBlazer. Go figure...

Bob

ateixeira · April 2002

I've seen blinds on some Lexus models. Offer that *and* factory window tinting.

Or Bob's earlier idea - self tinting glass!

-juice

Subaru Crew - Future Models II

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