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Subaru Forester (up to 2005)

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    kenskens Member Posts: 5,869
    rochom -- Wow, that sounds overpriced for the windshield. I had mine replaced at a local Safelite for $150. That was with the US OE Carlex brand, too.

    Don -- It's good to know that Subaru finally made it easier to access the oil filter. On my 98, you need to remove the entire bottom cover to get to it.

    Ken
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Didn't have to do with which model was chosen, it had more to do with the under-the-table $ that is exchanged for good reviews and advertising :) I know I know I don't have proof but we all know that car mags are notorious for publishing highly opinionated articles and passing them off as near-facts.

    -mike
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    gened1gened1 Member Posts: 256
    For all of you who have your July Car & Driver check out page 94 of the 2003 Range RoverC/D test results and then compare them to the 2003 Forester on page 109. Makes you kind of smile doesn't it!! And just think the Forester didn't cost you $72 big ones.
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That is like me comparing my $1000 XT6 to a WRX. :)

    -mike
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    rochcomrochcom Member Posts: 247
    Well, I didn't pay for the windshield, so I won't feel bad. Maybe the invoice price was just to impress me with how much my insurance company was paying on my behalf. I doubt that they would pay too much, so maybe they get an additional discount.

    Wow, $150 for a windshield? I had the side glass replaced in an earlier vehicle about 7 years ago, and that cost $120 at the time, and side glass is tempered, not laminated, and much smaller. I guess this is a high priced area.
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    kowskikowski Member Posts: 6
    Just ordered a 03 Forester XS with the upgraded security alarm. I have been reading posts about the alarm going off. Are these factory installed or are they after market systems?
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    joe_sinjoe_sin Member Posts: 32
    Michael(s) and Kate. Don't worry. There's nothing insensitive about it, and thanks for your interest. If anything, I've probably gotten a little flip in describing it (having done it so many times). My wife was driving past the north tower when the first plane hit. She dodged falling debris, and pulled over. Ran like hell when the second plane hit. Kept the wife, but lost the car, which is exactly what's supposed to happen.

    In the great scheme of things, losing a car is no big deal. One of many lessons learned that day.

    Michael: If you're in a position to snap some photos of the piles of cars, we were pretty curious about what ultimately happened to it. It's a blue 2001 Forester L. Even just the location of the pile would help.

    Sorry it took me so long to respond.

    Joe
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    p0926p0926 Member Posts: 4,423
    Kowski- I know of only the one recent thread discussing the sensitivity of the factory alarm system. If you were to go back thru the thousands of posts spanning the last several years, you'd find that problems with the Forester's alarm system have been almost non-existent.

    -Frank P.
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    goldencouple1goldencouple1 Member Posts: 209
    If it is any consolation, my impression and experience is that alarms go off...they just go off. Inconvenient. Annoying. A fact of life. And some places, quite necessary. Our non-alarmed auto neighbors had CD players and other goodies ripped out of their cars, while our alarmed truck quietly blinked away ten feet away. The power of deterrence. However, if a rumbling truck or yowling motorcycle passed by -- the truck would at least chirp a warning, and sometimes go off WEEE-AHHH WEEEE-AHHHH Yip Yip Yip WWEEEE-AHHHH.

    Original equipment alarms are a good thing. We had after-market (Viper) and we had to disconnect the alarm before electric diagnostics could be run -- which was a pain in the be-hind. And just as painful was the dealer insisting that the alarm be disconnected and the people that installed it saying they didn't really have to disconnect it for the tests to be run.
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    carmarshelcarmarshel Member Posts: 10
    Well, I did it. Went to the Subaru dealer yesterday and negotiated a price of 5% over invoice (accessories too) on an XS. And actually a pretty pleasant experience... no dealer add-ons or protection packages being pushed at me. Since they don't have the model I want, they will do a search and/or order one for me.

    One big item that I thought I had decided on but am now debating is whether to get a manual or automatic transmission. I have always driven manuals and prefer them especially with 4 cylinder engines. But I can't decide if this is the way to go. I am an aging (duh), but on the young side of baby-boomers. I/we also tend to keep cars 10+years. Should I go for the fun with the manual, or ? Your input would be greatly appreciated (but soon, since I need to let the dealer know tomorrow morning so he can begin the car search).

    Thanks.

    -Rod
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    burnsmr4burnsmr4 Member Posts: 318
    Joe-sin: Thanks for the story. You're right -- wife = greater importance than car. I'm glad she came out safe and sound, if not a little frightened.

    Trailer towing question: I've never towed anything before, so I'm not really knowledgeable on hitches and trailers. I've looked at getting a Draw-Tite hitch for my 2002 Subaru Forest S (AT), and I found #36240 and a #36311 models on the Draw-Tite website. Class II hitches. The Class I option wouldn't pull anything for the Forester. Are these the correct hitches? If so, where did you buy yours, and what did it cost (installed or not)?

    Thanks,
    burnsmr4
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    scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    Rod-- Not only am I also an "aging baby-boomer" (oh jeez, how I hate that term) but have also owned manuals since buying my first car in high school. I will continue to buy manuals until I no longer am able to drive. There's just something about being able to decide when to shift gears and working the clutch (although I do admit to doing some shifting whithout using the clutch) that just makes me feel a bit more in tune with the car ...a feeling of being "one" or a part of the machinery by playing an integral part of how it goes down the road. So yes, I believe driving a manual is not only more fun but an essential part of the driving experience. A friend once told me: "driving an automatic = step on gas to go, step on brake to stop; what fun is there to that??"

    My Forester's clutch and shifter have that typical Japanese silky feel and are easy to use. The shifter isn't the best I've encountered but modifiying it with one which has shorter throws, as some here have done, should help. I almost feel as if I'm driving a sports car because of the Forester's excellent handling.

    So yes, I seriously recommend that you stay with a manual unless you've become one of those who have to talk on their cell phone, eat donuts and drink coffee all at the same time while you drive. *chuckles* ...in that case, you've probably drifted away from being a driving enthusiast anyway. :p

    And be prepared when you are finally ready to take delivery of your new Forester as far as declining protection packages, etc. While completing your paper work in the finance office is when they will typically try to push those kinds of things into the deal. The finance guy is sometimes the dealership's biggest commission maker. Finance promotions, extended warrantys, protection packages and the like are typically the biggest mark-up items the dealer sells. These guys are sometimes more pushy and have better sales skills than the new car sales staff.

    --'rocco
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    critternutcritternut Member Posts: 5
    I have been lurking here about 4 months as I researched a new car. Decided for sure on the 2003 Forester and ordered it today - with all the little accessories I wanted. Got about 3% above invoice, which seemed fair. I am very excited - this is my first new car since 1982 (been buying used ones and driving them till about 200k miles or so). So, thanks for everyone for your experiences, insights and advice. Ain't the internet amazing!!
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    scirocco22scirocco22 Member Posts: 721
    Jeannine-- Congrats on your deal! So did YOU go with the manual? ...just curious. I remember that you asked about it last month.

    --'rocco
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    joe_sinjoe_sin Member Posts: 32
    I'm afraid I'm not going to be that much help; I have the Subaru hitch. I ordered it with the car on the premise that if it's their hitch, anything that goes awry is under warranty. Also, I've never towed anything all that heavy with the Forester (500 - 700 lbs; small boat with trailer).

    The Subaru hitch is class 1. I can't imagine how you'd put a class 2 on a Forester. The tow specs for the car are 200 lbs tongue weight, 2000 lbs total. In reality, you wouldn't want anything more than about 1000 lbs on the back of that car. Even with trailer brakes (required in NY over 1000 lbs) you'd really feel the trailer pushing on the car when going downhill. Remember that those specs aren't only for the hitch; they're also for the engine, tranny, suspension, and the metal that the hitch will bolt onto.

    I had the hitch put on my former 2001 Forester L AT at the dealer as an afterthought for $450. I know that you can get it done for less in the real world. My brother put a class 1 on his '98 OB and it's a Draw-Tite. He's very pleased with it. I know a couple of other people who like their product. I noticed on Draw-Tite's web site that the class 1 Sportsframe hitch tows 2000 lbs/200 lbs tongue weight. The Subaru hitch is of a comparable design.

    Hope that helps.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Re: Trailering...

    Subarus are only rated to tow Class I trailers, which is up to 2000 pounds. The '03 Forester with a manual tranny is rated to tow 2400 pounds.

    A Class II trailer is rated to tow up to 3500 pounds.

    Having said that, if you can get a Class II hitch for your Forester, so much the better. It will be a stronger hitch, than a Class I hitch.

    Also, since you're a novice to towing, keep in mind if your trailer doesn't have brakes, Subarus are only rated to tow 1000 pounds. This info is in your owners manual.

    Bob
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    burnsmr4burnsmr4 Member Posts: 318
    ...would one use a trailer with brakes with the Forester. I don't know why the Draw-Tite website wouldn't display a Class I trailer hitch for the Forester. Interface wouldn't do it.

    Any additional info would be helpful.

    Later,
    burnsmr4
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    critternutcritternut Member Posts: 5
    My research did not really confirm a clutch problem with the manual (though a friend who has an older Forester said she'd read there had been problems). Anyway, combining the fact that I could find no real problems in my research + the 2003's have a new design with hill holder + the fact that I really love driving a stick and have never owned or wanted an automatic.... well, that was that. I got a white XS premium with manual, cloth seats, and various accessory packages (including dog cage thingy). The total price was slightly under 24k. Gets here in a couple of months :)
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    joe_sinjoe_sin Member Posts: 32
    Are you sure the interface won't handle electric brakes? If that's so, I know that when you get a Draw-Tite hitch (at least when I looked into it), and you specify that you need brakes, they install an interface for that. As I recall, it went between the battery and the brakes, and was switched on by voltage from the brake lights. The module they showed me looked very much like the one that's in the wheel well of my car, except the one in my car says "Subaru".

    At the risk of confusing an already difficult decision (and starting an argument; not my intent), I'm not sure that I'd put a class 2 hitch on the car just because it's stronger. It's also heavier. Why add the weight if it doesn't afford you an actual increase in towing capacity?
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    rochcomrochcom Member Posts: 247
    Now that the hill holder is back, it brings up a question. The original Subaru hill holder required a cable shifter. As I understand it, the hill holder was discontinued when Subaru went to a direct acting shifter that was said to be more precise. So, have they gone back to cable, or is the new hill holder of a different design?
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    joe_sinjoe_sin Member Posts: 32
    I just read your message again and realized you weren't talking about the electric brake module, but the interface for the web site. Not feeling too bright right now.

    I just tried the Draw-Tite site. You're right; it doesn't list a class one hitch. I guess that means you get the class 2 and make sure not to tow anything too heavy for the car, or you get the Subaru hitch for $250 or so, plus the cost of installation.

    I see a class 2 hitch in your future...
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Joe, no problem the piles are at the Landfill in SI. I don't live too far so I'll go over and snap a bunch of shots for yah. I'll see how close I can get. I was a few blocks away @ work that day. 12hrs to get home :( but at least I'm alive. Amazingly some of my Isuzu buddies who I chat with on AOL IM were the first to call me as I was walking out of the city.

    -mike
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    73soob0173soob01 Member Posts: 14
    Hello,

    When looking at the calendar today, I realized it's exactly 18 months since we purchased our Forester. The car (sorry, I've never named it!) has been in 14 of the 50 states here in the USA, and the odometer shows 34,783 miles. I do make a lot of road trips, and if you have an interest in old military bases you can check them out on my web site, www.airforcebase.net.

    Problems? Well, I still need to roll up a towel and use it to get proper back support. And the cupholders tend to aircondition my coffee. But the Forester has never failed to start, and has never ceased to operate in an unplanned manner. In other words, it has never failed me. The air conditioner still makes a squeeling noise when the compressor kicks in, but it refuses to make that noise when I'm at the dealer.

    Since we bought the Forester, I've added the upgraded speakers and tweeter kit (took about ten minutes to install). I've used opaque white tinting material to mask the upper edge of the windshield, to keep the sun from peeking in around the edges of the sun visors. I've added an aftermarket cup holder to the passenger side of the console (to keep my coffee away from the air conditioning here in TX). I've attached a piece of wood to the driver's side of the console, to rest my leg against (makes driving more comfortable for me). And on the dash, I've mounted brackets for two GPS units I use. At 30,000 miles, I replaced the original tires with Dunlop SP Sport A2s (and I recommend them).

    All in all, I'm very pleased after a year and a half of Forester ownership.

    Cheers,
    Scott
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    hypovhypov Member Posts: 3,068
    Scott-
    Two GPS units???

    -Dave
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    casecom2casecom2 Member Posts: 72
    Hi Susanne,

    I see a fair number of Foresters here in Minnesota ... I've read (perhaps on this very board?) Subaru's AWD is more popular in snowier northern climes and that Subaru is the unofficial state car of Vermont.

    That aside, what your question really gets at is "why isn't Subaru selling more Foresters?"

    I think a lot of it boils down to the fact that "big is in" these days. People like even their small SUVs to look big.

    Look at where the Forester is positioned in the small SUV market. It's competing with the Honda CR-V, Ford Escape, Toyota RAV4, Jeep Liberty and the like -- all of which present a more in-your-face appearance. Aggressive "look out or I'll run you over" snouts are very popular now (see Escape, Liberty). Also, the other SUVs have more of what the magazines like to call a "commanding view of the road," meaning you sit up higher.

    But the Forester's low center of gravity is what helps give it its carlike handling and feel, which is partly what attracts me to it. Plus, I happen to like the Forester's classy understated styling.

    The Forester might be more properly classified a wagon, but most wagon shoppers are likely to gravitate toward Subaru's Outback wagon, or VW's Passat. And the Forester is priced out of the league of many of the smaller wagons/hatchbacks (like the Focus).

    But the most important thing in shopping for a car is whether it suits your needs. I think the Forester might be a great choice for me. The fact that it's not what "everyone else is driving" is just another plus in my book.

    Now I just have to get out there and test-drive one! ;)
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Every single Forester produced gets sold. I think it's the #2 model sold by Subaru. Here in the NE I see as many Foresters as Outbacks.

    -mike
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    carmarshelcarmarshel Member Posts: 10
    Thanks 'rocco for your response to my question, with a thumbs-up to the manual transmission on the 03. All of your reasons for owning manuals are me! I really enjoy "driving". My wife sometimes looks at me like I'm crazy, but... I guess the next car needs to be an automatic for her. I'll look out for any last minute plays for dealer add-ons. Shouldn't be a problem. I'm pretty good when it comes to negotiating/fighting for my money (even my wife is impressed). I'll keep you all posted on my purchase and driving updates.
    -Rod
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    tidestertidester Member Posts: 10,059
    jeff,

    Welcome aboard! Unfortunately, the search function didn't get upgraded during the site's upgrade.

    I'm sure that the wonderful regulars on the board will recall the discussion about hesitation and provide you with some answers.

    tidester
    Host
    SUVs; Aftermarket & Accessories
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    << ...would one use a trailer with brakes with the Forester... >>

    Here in Maryland, trailers are not required by law to have brakes unless they're rated for 3000 pounds and up. Therefore, trying to find a Class I trailer with brakes is next to impossible. I suspect that this is the case most everywhere, except in NY, where trailers rated for over 1000 pounds are required to have brakes. I'm sure Paisan will either confirm or correct me on NY trailering laws.

    Bob
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Bob, that's actually CA law. NY I believe is 3000 or 3500lbs required by law to have trailer brakes. CA is either 1000 or 1500lbs. I tow my 3000lb boat trailer w/o brakes as that is how it came originally.

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
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    storytellerstoryteller Member Posts: 476
    Hey, Casey! Weren't you going out for some test drives this past week? How'd it go? Did the Forester live up to its advance billing?

    Steve (I live a mile south of you, which is why I say y'all so much)
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    http://www.championtrailers.com/brkart.html

    Good description of trailer brakes.


    http://www.mbyc.net/Fleet59/Boat%20Towing%20Laws%20in%20California.htm

    Towing laws on the west coast.


    http://www.easternshoreoutfitters.com/marylandboattowinglaws.htm

    Maryland towing laws.


    -mike

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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    Thanks Mike. Here's another one, with every state trailer law in the USA.

    Bob

    http://www.boatus.com/towing/towlaw.htm
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    That was the one I was looking for but couldn't find!

    -mike
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    All trailers in ND require brakes! How do you like that?

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    that's where Subie owners, who want to use their full towing capacity, should shop for trailers. ;)

    Shouldn't be any problem finding a Class I trailer there with brakes.

    Bob
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    And probably most other vehicles. So far every make/model I've seen out there requires brakes over 1000 or 1500lbs.

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I've often wondered, if trailer brakes (or lack there of), are the restricting factor on Subarus (and other cars), why doesn't Subaru just offer a beefed up brake system as part of a trailer tow package? As it now stands Subaru's brakes are okay to stop a 1000 pound trailer; how hard would it be to make them capable of stopping a 2000 pound trailer?

    Bob
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    :) I think it's the lawyers who put that restriction on the brakes. Also the weight of the tow-vehicle has a lot to do with stopping power, even if the brakes are beefy, it may not be able to control the trailer w/o it's own brakes.

    -mike
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    are often rated at 2000 pounds. I know that's the case for full-size GM trucks, and the new Dodge Ram too. Still, that's a very low rating, considering the vehicle...

    Bob
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    bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    I put a Draw-Tite class II hitch with a 1.25" receiver on my '01 Forester. It's a bolt on - seven bolts, fit perfectly. All you can see is the receiver and the tip of one corner peeking out from under the bumper cover, very clean look actually. We bought ours from Sportsrack - about $120 as I recall, 2 years ago. The part number mentioned in an earlier post sounds familiar - #32640 or somesuch.

    You do have to loosen the charcoal canister to get at one of the bolts on the passenger side, and remove the tie down brackets. Really easy, but wrestling with the frame hitch itself was a bit "physical". I'd recommend a helper to hold it in position until you get a bolt in on each side. Torque spec was 58 ft. lbs - included in the installation instructions.

    We used the OEM light controller, purchased separately as a part from the dealer (the OEM hitch comes as a kit with the light controller), and the attached a Draw-Tite 4-pin to 7-in Barco adapter to support trailer brakes. I had our RV dealer install a Draw-Tite brake controller, and tie it into the 7-pin Barco connector, mostly for peace of mind and insurance purposes. No reason I couldn't have installed it myself. Make sure you get a 20amp self-resetting breaker in that circuit, and your ground is solid.

    I liked having a beefier class II receiver - cost was a wash. We tow a mid-sized Coleman camper through the mountains, and have been impressed with the Forester's capabilities. Suffice it to say, it delivers as advertised. (That is, it's not a full-size pickup and we respect its limits fastidiously, but it's more than capable of doing what Subaru rates it for, power is never an issue, even at altitude).

    Hope this helps.

    -brianV
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    paisanpaisan Member Posts: 21,181
    Also full sized pickups are relatively light. Considering that they probably are 2000lbs trailer weight w/o brakes if the bed is unloaded. You are right though even 2000lbs on a truck that can tow 13,000 is kinda low you'd think.

    -mike
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    varmintvarmint Member Posts: 6,326
    You can beef up the brakes all day long... but if the tires don't have enough rubber on the road...

    That limitation may explain why upgraded brakes are not part of the tow package.
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I just think, that for Class I usage, which is not very demanding, Subaru and others could come up with a brake/tire combo that could satisfy full Class I needs. When you get into Class II, or Class III, that's an altogether different ball game.

    Bob
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    bsvollerbsvoller Member Posts: 528
    Given that the '03 was uprated for the manual transmission only, we can conclude that the transmission is one gating (limiting) factor on the first gen Foresters in terms of overall tow capacity.

    The '03 sports an "all new" manual tranny (parts specifier's description, not mine), with a new pressure plate and clutch disk as well.

    Since the '03 also has a stiffened unibody and beefier brakes, those might have been factors on the first gen as well, but I doubt it, since the overseas models have higher reported limits.

    As to braked vs. unbraked trailer ratings, I thought we'd discussed this once before... even big trucks often have quite low "unbraked" limits, around 1500#'s or so...
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    I know there is no mention of trailer brake restrictions in Explorer Owners Manuals. I've checked mine, as well as the new '02 Explorer 4-door, and there is is no mention of that at all.

    I did, however, see a trailer-towing brochure put out by Ford, and there was mention of trailer brakes in there. I don't remember if they just "recommended" them or "required" them. In any case, Ford's position seems inconstant. Either you do, or you don't...

    Bob
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    rshollandrsholland Member Posts: 19,788
    this trailer brake issue is an on-going saga here. You can blame me mostly for it. ;)

    It is interesting that the '03 Forester 5-speed now has a higher tow rating than the automatic. That runs contrary to everything I've ever learned about towing.

    Bob
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Jeff: I would try an ECU reset in your case, in fact that's exactly the problem it seems to resolve. It may be the auto tranny taking a while to put it in 1st, in fact Bob and I noticed all the Volvos at their Fire & Ice event had this problem, worse than yours I would guess.

    I wonder how well the Hill Holder feature sells in San Fransisco? Maybe they order more manuals there because of demand?

    I have the OE hitch and am happy with it. Same install procedure described above.

    Congrats to Rod and Jeannine.

    1000 miles is not too early to change your oil. Subaru does not use any special break in oil, in fact it's plain ol' Havoline. The OE filter is made by Purolator, so that's a good choice. I think they have an anti-drain back valve.

    The C&D article was interesting, though the 0-60 number doesn't seem to add up. Maybe they did have a couple hundred pounds of ballast? Why would a lighter 5 speed with more torque be slower than the last automatic they tested?

    Nice catch on the weight miscue, BTW.

    They mentioned 1st and 2nd gears are a little shorter, so a shift to 3rd is required to reach 60mph (2nd redline at 52 or 52mph). But even the old one redlined in 2nd at about 59mph.

    Did you guys notice the lateral Gs, though? 0.77, with the nearest competitor at a distant 0.71. Those 16" rims and tires make a world of difference.

    I'm ready for the turbo, though, bring it on!

    -juice
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    ateixeiraateixeira Member Posts: 72,587
    Bob - the auto had an engine oil cooler before, while the 5 speed didn't. In fact you can buy them and install them easily (my oil is clear when I change it, with no sludge, so I passed).

    But maybe the 5 speed now gets that oil cooler?

    -juice
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