Mazda3

dinu01 · November 2003

Yeah I have it. Once some ppl start getting their 3s it would be cool to have a mthly/wkly chat on MSN.

Dinu

fowler3 · November 2003

The real problem you would have towing a small trailer and boat is this -- the 3 may be able to tow it on level roads easily, BUT when you get to a launching ramp it's a different story. The 3 is frontwheel drive. A load on the back end means less traction at the front wheels.

I had a 1981 Mazda GLC hatchback (smaller and lighter than the 3) and towed a small sailboat from its parking space at a marina to and from the launching ramp. Launching wasn't a big deal; loading and driving up a wet ramp is -- the FWD slipped badly. It was like driving on ice. I had to get another boater with a Jeep to pull the GLC and the trailer up the ramp.

Level towing isn't a problem, it's when additional loads and stresses come into play that Mazda doesn't recommend it. This applies to all compact FWD cars and many medium size FWD cars. It's tough enough for RWD big cars to launch and retrieve boats. I've towed boats as large as 23-feet long behind big cars.

fowler3

pro02 · November 2003

Fowler3 -- I understand the fwd concerns based on your experience at the launching ramp, but for me I don't think it's an issue. Years ago (pre Ranger truck) I towed and launched with a variety of fwd cars including a '94 Escort w/ AT and never had any trouble at my ramp which is not slick or terribly steep. My little rig does not have much tongue weight so the weight transfer isn't significant enough to reduce traction going up the ramp. Thanks for your thoughts.

mazda6s · November 2003

they gotta get those car-hauling trucks rolling!

pzev · November 2003

Well since it's so quiet in here I want to ask something. Why is it that the Mazda topics are so popular but in reality they just don't sell well? Are the majority of people simply "enthusiasts" on here who do tons of research and care more about driving fun than fuel mileage?

Mazda reminds me of Nissan. They're trying to get exciting products out there and make a turn around. So far it looks as if the Mazda6 isn't quite a big of success as they would like and the RX-8 sales aren't exactly hot either. If they have poor sales now what will this mean 2 years from now when they're old news?

Nissan seems to be doing a better job in my opinion. I guess Americans care more about HP than interior quality. I prefer the reverse, I rather have less HP in exchange for better interior quality. Last I heard the Maxima and G35 were doing well. The G35 coupe in most places is still getting MSRP. The Altima has done fairly well as well even with a below average interior and also is said not to be as good a handler as the Mazda6. So why does it do better? Bigger? More HP? Better dealer network?

As good as Mazda's products are they don't seem to be doing as successful as Nissan. Even Hyundai has lots of promise and is making a comeback. Hyundai has extended the long warranties until at least 2008 I think and there is talk Mitsubishi might offer the same long warranties soon since the guy who pushed for the long warranties at Hyundai works for Mitsubishi now and is interested in doing the same. There's not enough driving "enthusiasts" to keep Mazda's sales up so they have to come up with a better way to sell cars. This is also assuming the rust problem on the Mazda6 doesn't hurt their image too bad.

Maybe they should tap into the 20k coupe segment. The Mitsubishi Eclipse does very well and Mitsubishi isn't exactly a top brand. I think it even beats out the Acura RSX and Toyota Celica. Mazda is suppose to be a sporty company anyway. Where is a coupe?

To stay on topic, even though I like the regular bumper design better, I think the sport bumper on the 2.0 helps the looks a little better. It makes the back end of the car look less tall and less short since the bumper sticks out further and also seems to be deeper, which offsets the tallness of the back end a little. I'm undecided on the black part of the regular grille though, I think the body-color regular grille looks a little better but there probably won't be enough of a difference to really matter.

By the way, is ANYONE considering the 2.0 engine besides me? lol

qbrozen · November 2003

i have a bit of a theory on this. It seems to me that the enthusiast/niche cars have more of an online following. Check out the subaru boards on here. People with boring everyday cars aren't going around looking for a place to talk about their cars. Again, just a theory.

lavaorange3 · November 2003

For me, an old guy, in this order: fun to drive, quality and reliability, power... Gotta have the 2.3L!

gib11 · November 2003

You say that Mazda's line up are not selling well. I'm not sure at all. sales have never been so high for Mazda. Protegé sold like cup cakes. Mazda6 also (6 cylinder in US and 4 cylinder for the rest of the world). I don't know about RX8 but I bet next spring they will sell. truck are selling well, MPV also.

Mazda is not trying to outsell Honda or Toyota, they just dont have the plants to produce in such high numbers. They have created a niche (sporty zoom zoom affordable cars)and it is not an approach for every driver out there. And that,s fine with me.

dinu01 · November 2003

2.0 - Yes me.

Mazda sells just not in the US. It sells in Canada and Europe, but it's too exciting for the boring US market.

Dinu

lavaorange3 · November 2003

I don't think the U.S. ever got over the demise of the powerful V-8 after smog controls snuffed everything out beginning in 1972. You cannot imagine how poor the cars were after that... V-8s making 140hp hooked to sludgy 3-speed automatics... Then, responding to the Japanese onslaught, the U.S. makers went cheap and easy...and as a result, yes: boring. Pinto and Vega, ugh! In a sense, there's a renaissance underway today...but with four-cylinder Camrys and Accords, and SUVs and mini-vans clogging the road, there isn't a lot of fun. I have trouble coming up with 5 American cars I'd even consider buying...

kaiserhead · November 2003

Sure the G35 is going for MSRP, but its the first Infinity model EVER to go for at least MSRP!!!!

bluong1 · November 2003

in a recent interview with Stephen Odell, Mazda Senior Managing Executive Officer in charge of Marketing, Sales and Customer Service, told [my translation]:

"For Europe market, 10 years from now, we would like to sale 300000 cars, i.e., only 1/3 more than today. We will make that however profitable, not with aggressive marketing, but rather building appreciated and desired cars."

I like that.

dinu01 · November 2003

"I have trouble coming up with 5 American cars I'd even consider buying..."

My list:

GTO
GT40
New Mustang (maybe)
Focus ZX5

I really can't think of anything else that I'd like. If the ZX5 was more reliable and cheaper than the Mazda3 by at least $2000CAD I'd consider it.

Dinu

mdaffron · November 2003

I see a LOT more RX-8s running around than I do 350Zs. And the 350Z has been out how much longer than the RX-8?

And I do see a veritable motherlode (pun intended) of newer MPVs running around my neighborhood and at the mall. And I must pass at least half a dozen late-model Proteges, a couple of 6s, at least three Protege5s and two Tributes just going up 2 levels in the parking deck every morning. Considering none of those cars are more than three years old, and they represent about 5 to 10 percent of the parking spaces I pass before I get to my spot, I'd say that's pretty respectable for Mazda's progress of late.

Meade

creakid1 · November 2003

eventhough the Tribute & MPV are so mediocre.

notminehers · November 2003

At least in Tacoma, Wa. They have 2 on the lot...both 2.3l - will check them out this weekend and test drive - my 2001 Pro may be history!! Greg

dinu01 · November 2003

Great news!!!

Dinu

creakid1 · November 2003

"Why is it that the Mazda topics are so popular but in reality they just don't sell well? Are the majority of people simply "enthusiasts" on here who do tons of research and care more about driving fun than fuel mileage?"

Only people who care about driving fun or, should I say, sensitive enough to tell "the difference between a remote-control-like vehicle & an intuitively-driven vehicle" know the virtues of the Mazdas.

Why will most people avoid the Mazda3? 'cause most people I talked to these days are still complaining that the Mazda3 cost no less than the Camry LE advertised on the newspaper specials. In case they don't know that it's the more-expensive sportier Camry SE they should be comparing to. Despite less comfortable riding than the LE, the SE is STILL no fun to drive AT ALL, per C&D. So the Mazda 3S deserves to cost more than the Camry SE! & the price is too low, too, when compare to the quieter but less-reliable BMW 3-series.

Since '83, I've been trying to figured out why does the the newly designed 626 feel more enjoyable to drive than the newly designed Camry. I know it's not the slightly-higher noise & ride harshness. They both ride terribly over large bumps. The Mazda simply feels more fun to charge & go, while the Toyota just makes driving seem like a boring chore & will eventually make you not like driving much. Those of you who never experience a fun-to-drive car would never know what driving enjoyment is all about.

"Nissan seems to be doing a better job in my opinion. I guess Americans care more about HP than interior quality."

You're right. Even the sportiest version - the 350Z - is no fun to drive & sucks in steering feel, despite already sacrificing the ride comfort, per CR.

"People with boring everyday cars aren't going around looking for a place to talk about their cars. Again, just a theory."

That is totally right. Where's the excitement to talk about? If the car is not fun enough to be your toy, why bother?

But I must admit, until Mazda takes care of the fwy cruising quietness, American driving...

msgboarduser · November 2003

I've been thinking about purchasing a 2004 RSX, then came across the Mazda 3. Wow... looks great, and it come in the color I want (Titanium Gray Metallic).

Would greatly appreciate your thoughts on how the two compare.

Thanks

pzev · November 2003

I thought you wanted the 2.3 and black taillights?? In the US there's only a $700 or so difference. Is it more expensive in Canada?

pzev · November 2003

My post was more about the US market specifically and not the rest of the world. I guess if Mazda is making a profit here though then there's no chance they'll pull out of the US market altogether. Seems like Isuzu or Saab would go first before Mazda though.

stickguy · November 2003

called the local dealer today (Maple Shade in NJ, the one that has the large online inventory). Sales person said the latest they were told is mid-December, but until recently they were expecting mid-late November.

Given how well MNAO has been doing with launches lately, the truck will probably show up tomorrow. Or not until January.

SHouldn't take that long for them to spread across the country, but what do I know.

dinu01 · November 2003

When I add the MUST-have sunroof, it's too much. I really don't see why I would spend more $$$ for the GT w/GFX. And no the engine is not worth it to me that much.

Dinu

pzev · November 2003

"My list:

GTO
GT40
New Mustang (maybe)
Focus ZX5"

I agree, it's hard for me to find any American cars that really appeal to me. And this is coming from someone who doesn't put a lot of emphasis on driving fun.

GM, Ford, and Chrysler seems to have put all their efforts into SUV and ignored their cars. Ford had a nice car in the Focus but screwed it all up. Hearing about all the recalls and problems keeps me away from it. Plus the Mazda3 seems to have a superior interior so the Focus is not a consideration for me.

The GTO seems nice, especially the interior, but that's because it's from Australia and apparently GM thinks Americans will buy the lowest quality interiors imaginable. Pontiac Sunfire and Grand Am interiors make me want to throw up. The Mazda3 interior looks like a Rolls Royce compared to that garbage.

The GTO must be heavy as lead too because the automatic version is going to be hit with a $1,000 gas guzzler tax. The automatic Corvette doesn't have one.

As far as the new Mustang is concerned, I think they're going to cut costs and not have an independent suspension on it. Aren't they going with a beam suspension instead?

baggs32 · November 2003

"As far as the new Mustang is concerned, I think they're going to cut costs and not have an independent suspension on it. Aren't they going with a beam suspension instead?"

Yes they are. Only the Cobra and possible other SE's will have IRS.

Ford received a lot of mail from Mustang loyalists urging them to stick with the solid beam. Seeing that they had the chance to cut costs and please a lot of fans at the same time must have brought a tear to their collective eyes.

pzev · November 2003

Welcome to the 2.0 club. We'll probably be the only members though.

pzev · November 2003

Mustang loyalists wanted a beam suspension!? Any reason why?

baggs32 · November 2003

Approximately how many 3's fit on one boat from Japan? Would they be able to provide 3's to a large majority of dealers from one shipment?

I went to check the inventory of 6's from the MUSA site today and, by default, was taken to the Mazda3 inventory search page. It wasn't working right just yet but the fact that it's out there tells me that we'll be seeing it and the build/buy app sometime real soon.

baggs32 · November 2003

The articles I read stated that the loyalists didn't care about handling. They just want to be able to blow other cars off the line in a drag race. The solid rear beam is supposedly better for that situation.

I don't exactly know why that is though.

I'd still take one in a heartbeat!

pzev · November 2003

Well the G35 sedan went for MSRP for a little while, but you can easily get less than that now. The coupe version is built in smaller numbers I believe so I guess that's why it's going for MSRP. The GT-R I'm sure will go for MSRP as well when it's offered.

I think Infiniti is on the way up. The Q45 is a dud and the M45 isn't doing all that well but it's about to be replaced by the Fuga concept from the Tokyo Motor Show within a year or so. They should get rid of the Q45 altogether, offer both a V6 and V8 version of the Fuga (which I think they are anyway) and let the GT-R be the flagship car of the brand.

wongpres · November 2003

Good question, because I drove the RSX the same day I got to ride in the Mazda3.

The two vehicles are very, very similar and there were two things in particular I noticed. First, the stereo seemed a bit better on the Mazda3 (the Mazda3 had 6 speakers and the RSX had 6-speakers but no BOSE). Second, the Mazda3 had much less vibration at idle (but the Mazda3 had just over 200km on it whereas the RSX had 25,000km on it).

The interior fit and finish was very, very similar between the two (but I'm in the minority that has never been a huge fan of Honda interiors).

newcar31 · November 2003

The new Mustang doesn't have a beam suspension, it has a solid axle. The Cobra will still have an IRS. Beam suspensions are what you find on cheesy FWD cars. And yes, the solid axle is better for drag racing because it's tougher and it keeps both rear wheels flat on the ground.

I would suspect that Washington would have the first Mazda3s since that is one of the ports that Japanese Mazdas come into and it's the closest of the ports to Japan. (My Protege came via Washington)

pzev · November 2003

Would the V8 version even be able to beat an EVO, STi, or SRT-4? The V8 will probably be around the same price as these right?

dinu01 · November 2003

The club will grow once we get more owners to post

Dinu

pzev · November 2003

How long is it going to take for the rest of the country to get a Mazda3? About a month?

wongpres · November 2003

Mazda3's in USA:

Actually, as mazdaman said, California got the Mazda3's first and I know someone who testdrove one 3 days ago.

The USA east-coast will get them a lot later though, like late Nov or early Dec because of MazdaUSA's distribution system. Basically MazdaUSA has several ports on the east coast and the boats from Japan have to travel around the Panama canal to get there.

Canada has a slight advantage here, because even those who live in Newfoundland (furthest east part of Canada) will have theirs railed from the Vancouver port.

Dinu:

I hope you know the Pontiac GTO isn't coming to Canada.

baggs32 · November 2003

pzev,
Actually I don't think they've made the engines official but most people are expecting anywhere from 280 HP to 320 HP (Old DOHC 4.6L from the last gen Cobra) in the GT. You should still be able to get a GT coupe for around $23K which is significantly cheaper than the EVO and STi and right in line with the SRT-4. The GT convertible is expected to stay in line with current pricing too. Somewhere around $28K to start.

If the '05 does put out something like 300 HP it should be able to handle any of the three other vehicles you mentioned or at least come very close to it (I can't remember all of their numbers at the moment). The current 265 HP 4.6L in the GT comes pretty close so I would guess that what I said above is true.

Some guy parks his STi in the same garage I do so I get to see one every day. I know it's fast and handles like it's on rails but it sure is uuuuuuuuugleeeeee.

dinu01 · November 2003

GTO: Yes I know. No I can't afford it. Yes it was just a comment on domestic cars and their desirability to me

Dinu

newcar31 · November 2003

I forgot about Port Hueneme in California.

lavaorange3 · November 2003

Something tells me they don't stock Hawaii directly, so I probably get to wait even longer... One dealer I called said, um, maybe November, or maybe December...so he doesn't even know. Regardless, I'm buying in March once there are more on the lots! I love my P5 but I'm really looking forward to the 3!

combustible1 · November 2003

Can't wait to see the 3 come to the southwestern shores of Lake Michigan (Chicago, for you geographically challenged out there).

I must see first hand the back end which never seems to end.

it's either this or a TSX for me, which has no rear end to speak of, at least in comparison to the avg. car rear bumper.

Hopin' the 3 will serve my needs, and therefore, be able to save a few pesos in the process.

To our friend in Tacoma: I hope to your God that you have a digital camera, and that you intend to bring it! ;-)

bluong1 · November 2003

26 posts in just an hour! Great news that the 3 has reached US show rooms, seems like every body are excited about the Mazda is coming. I have a friend in NY who calls his dealer and they told him that the car will arrive for sure end November.

I'm not sure yet which engine I'll get, but certainly not the 2.3L. Between the 1.6 and 2.0L, I prefer the simple hydraulic steering and more balanced weight distribution of the smaller engine but I doubt I can adopt a less torquy engine than my P5's. I probably wait until the 6-speed MT Mazda3 comes out. May be Mazda will improve then the steering, put some killer engine to go with the 6-sp. I also don't mind a firmer suspension. Screw the ride comfort and long life for the handling!

btw how do boats go from Panama to Michigan lake? ;-)

lavaorange3 · November 2003

Is there a date for the six speed, or are you just hoping?

bluong1 · November 2003

there is a rumor saying that they are working on a 6-sp MT and 5-sp AT. Guess what do they do now those Mazda engineers with the free time (now that the 6, 3, 2, RX-8 are out, and next gen of MX-5 - aka Miata - is about)?

creakid1 · November 2003

Gosh, the present Protege didn't get a technical update until 2 years after the '99 introduction in '01. Will the '05 Mazda3 get 6-sp only after 9 months of introduction?

lavaorange3 · November 2003

Hmmmm...drove a six speed Honda S2000 recently and that car certainly needed it...in fact seven speeds would have been even better. 5 speeds with the 2.3 should be enough for now...maybe a Mazdaspeed 3 with a six speed will be just the ticket in a year or two...

creakid1 · November 2003

"Mustang loyalists wanted a beam suspension!? Any reason why?"

Drag racing, as ind rear suspension might not keep the perfectly-leveled angle for it. Otherwise, w/ all those sophisticated foreign-design imports around (Focus SVT included!), there's not'in else for them to show off. Where's the handling precision, etc.?

FYI, why not drag race a V8 version of the sophisticated Mazda3's bro - the Focus -instead?
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/?news/ae_news_story.php?id=41757

"The Q45 is a dud and the M45 isn't doing all that well but it's about to be replaced by the Fuga concept..."

Isn't the conservative-3-box-styling Infiniti M45 advertised as today's "American" RWD V8 muscle car to satisfy those of you anti-import or anti-Japanese gangsters? In case you didn't notice the blue smoke coming out the exhaust pipe in the T.V. commercial! First of all, let me get this straight. Isn't the M45 a Japanese car built in Japan? Would these Americans fall for this trap?

Yes, Nissan might as well forget about this attempt & go back to the futuristic-styling "Fuga". Just keep the "Fuga" name, for God's sake! ;-) Besides, the M45 is too costly in this country when comparing to the Mercury Marauder.

Also, this somewhat primitive & not-so-wild-handling Aussis Opel Catera coupe pretending to be a GTO just doesnt have the exterior styling of a good-o-American muscle car at all. As C&D pointed out, they have created a GTO cunningly disguised as a phone-company fleet car. When I first spotted our dishwater-dull, battleship-gray GTO, I thought perhaps a Navy recruiter had stopped by in an attempt to snare a couple of our office interns. Did the dolts at Pontiac even take a peek at the 1964-65 Goats, the first truly vivid and now classic muscle cars? p56, Dec 03.

newcar31 · November 2003

"btw how do boats go from Panama to Michigan lake? ;-)"

I know you're kidding, but if they wanted to ship em' directly to Chicago, it'd be quite a trip, but it can be done. All they'd have to do is cross the Pacific Ocean, go through the Panama Canal, cruise through the Gulf of Mexico, take a left at Florida, cruise up the eastern seaboard, take a left into the St. Lawrence seaway system, cruise through Canada, enter into Lake Ontario, then Lake Erie, then Lake Huron, and finally into lake Michigan. If they wanted to ship them straight to Minnesota, they could do that too, just go to Lake Superior instead of Lake Michigan. Not many people realize that Minnesota has an international sea port.

bluong1 · November 2003

Ouaa. Mazda3 better have an solid paint all the time it spends on the sea.

lavaorange3 · November 2003

Many of the cars that arrive in Hawaii actually have a wax paper coating on most of the external surfaces that peels off easily once they arrive here. The paint on my red 2002 P5 looked great on day one, and still looks great two years later...

Mazda3

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