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Toyota Prius vs VW Golf TDI



  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    If you go and take a Golf TDI out for a good drive away from the stop and go city, and still think the Prius is superior, let us know. I have ridden enough in a friends 09 Prius to never even consider them. Rough riding and noisy on our sub standard San Diego surface streets


    IOW a one trick pony. Yes as long as you keep the TDI's on the highway they are somewhat near the Prius in terms of fuel economy. If you go by Edmunds 3-segment comparo to LV and back the TDI fell short in every segment. Most people can't park their vehicles on highway entrance ramps for use only there. It's illegal.

    A good vehicle and a good option but limited in scope. The TDI's will always suffer by comparison when used off the highways. The Sportwagon with the same size as the Prius is worse yet in both scenarios'
  • kdhspyderkdhspyder Posts: 7,160
    The Prius NAV is still at the bottom of the pile for 2010. Their $500 DVD updates are a total rip-off.

    Neither statement is accurate.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,109
    Toyota NAV units are JUNK. They are at the bottom of the latest JD Powers survey for good reason. They are not only overpriced to start with they are overpriced to update. Denso is a junk electronics company. Prius may have gone to a different brand for 2010. They are still at the bottom of the pile. 8 of the bottom 11 vehicles in the survey are Toyotas. Including the Prius. When I asked about an update for my 2007 Sequoia which came with a 2004 DVD the price was $450 plus tax, which is $493.88. You can call it what you like but my statements stand and you are misinformed. Toyota needs to break loose with a few of those Billions stashed in a Japanese bank and use quality electronics. Start giving the customers what they deserve for the money they spend.

  • john1701ajohn1701a Posts: 1,897
    >> Toyota Hybrids have peaked in sales and are headed down hill

    Afraid of what the first 12 months of 2010 Prius sales will bring, eh?

    Including the final 5 months of older generation sales (Jan-May 2009) and disregarding the down economy is rather obvious greenwashing. It's called cherry picking.

    Waiting for an entire full year of data will confirm strong sales that the newest generation design. Watch the numbers in the top-10 seller list.
  • "Toyota NAV units are JUNK. . . "

    It never occurred to me to spend $24,000 on a car to get a navigation unit. We bought a $200 nuvi GPS, Consumer Reports recommended, and it moves from car-to-car. This portable, removable GPS even works while walking, bike riding or trying to find our car in a mall parking lot.

    Bob Wilson
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,109
    I was somewhat blindsided. I would not have bought an OEM NAV if it was not already in the vehicle I wanted. I just expected more than I got. Then the lies about XM being available and you may see why I am again turned off by Toyota. I may not buy a VW, but I sure as heck will not buy another Toyota. I'm happy to see VW pass Toyota as the largest auto company in the World. I just hope they build their TDI models in their new factory in Chattanooga.
  • " XM being available "

    Actually I 'fired' XM this summer when I decided to go iPod. I got so tired of their 'tone deaf' programming and lack of content when I wanted it. Our 2010 has XM built in but I've never activated it ... even the demo. I had XM in our 03 but I don't miss it.

    Bob Wilson
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,109
    We had XM in our 2005 GMC PU and enjoyed the Classical stations and the Christmas stations. If our Toyota CD player was able to play without skipping I would have been fine without XM. I took it into the dealer we bought it from and they said it tested OK. We did not use it until we got a new album and first time we tried it the thing it stuck and the NAV locked open. Then it took 4 weeks to get a new unit as it came from India. All under warranty. But we did not have the use of the NAV or radio for weeks. The Bose in our GMC was head and shoulders above the top of the line unit in our Sequoia Limited. Toyota is not top of the line anything. And I find the comparison between the Golf TDI and Prius laughable. The Prius has two slight advantages. Storage and city mileage. I know if you ever drove a VW TDI you would be trying to unload your Prii.
  • "The Prius has two slight advantages. Storage and city mileage."

    Since October 2005, we've driven over 70,000 miles at over 52 MPG, our 1.5L, 2003 Prius. It has more than met expectations and remains my primary commuting car. It also has the 1 kW inverter used for emergency power a couple of times per year and a 2" receiver for towing the trailer to carry oversized loads like lumber. It is our Jetta sized sedan with 52 MPG mileage and materially improved our quality of life.

    For the past six months, we put 7,000 miles on our second, 1.8L, 2010 Prius. It too is running over 52 MPG with more interior space and better high speed, highway and city mileage than a Jetta TDI. The 2010 Prius is used for weekends and errands and fills a role no Jetta TDI could hope to meet at 52 MPG. It is my wife's car so we are a two Prius family.

    Eventually the 2010 Prius will get a receiver for towing and possibly a more powerful A/C inverter. It may also get a battery pack for extended electric operation. At ~$.80/gal. equivalent electrical cost, this will further reduce our transportation cost. This is an area where the Jetta TDI does not compete.

    ". . . if you ever drove a VW TDI you would be trying to unload . . ."

    My wife and I prefer to go flying for fun.

    Bob Wilson
  • eliaselias Posts: 2,120
    Bob W, could you pick up the pace a little bit, maybe a bit more detail and verbosity and justification of the wonderfulness of your two-Prius experience?
    Your posts have reminded me to provide a pulse of diesel soot after passing one of the "Pulse and Glide Traffic-Impeding Prius People".

    I definitely concur with the repeated points about how the Prius excels when it is stationary/parked. But those "paperweight" functionalities are nowhere in my top requirements for a car.

    Personally I think the difference between 45 & 55 mpg is trivial when considered in cost-per mile, but many folks do get quite excited about it.
    Would bo5th TDI or Prius owners do well to consider that the idea of always striving to reduce one's transportation cost may have already run into the law of diminishing marginal returns, considering we are already driving ~50 mpg cars?

    I've thought positively about hybrids, but after riding in a Prius I would never consider one. For my tastes, Prius is an incredibly awful riding/handling vehicle, right out of the showroom. Civic hybrid was not much better. I have hopes for the new Honda Insight however and would like to test one.
  • ". . . passing one of the "Pulse and Glide Traffic-Impeding Prius People". "

    They irritate me too. Fortunately, we don't have any in Huntsville AL.

    ". . . nowhere in my top requirements for a car."

    Nor should it. This is why this long running thread in the Prius forum makes no sense except for amusement. The earnestness of the TDI advocates is only exceeded by their limited but growing understanding that others may have a different set of requirements.

    ". . . paperweight functions . . ."

    The 1 kW inverter and emergency power means we don't have to 'curse the darkness.' The vehicle provides a return on investment even when sitting in the driveway. Eventually, I hope to go full, co-generation powered by natural gas providing both house heat and power. It is another area where the TDI will never hope to achieve.

    ". . . the difference between 45 & 55 mpg is trivial . . . "

    The average NHW11 owner is getting 45 MPG and the ZVW30, 2010 Prius, is getting 50 MPG. But the 2010 Prius has a lot more space and the 1.8L engine gives it better high speed, highway and hill climbing performance. It is a better car. BTW, the 2010 Prius steering has more caster.

    BTW, I note the average TDI owner is reporting 40 MPG in So there you have:

    40 MPG - TDI owners
    45 MPG - NHW11 owners (personal 52 MPG)
    50 MPG - ZVW30 owners (personal 52 MPG)

    As for my 52 MPG in the NHW11, I simply choose to drive Prius friendly routes and pay attention to vehicle warm-up. The ZVW30, 2010 Prius, has removed those limitations.

    " . . . For my tastes, Prius is an incredibly awful riding/handling vehicle . . ."

    Correct! Others have different 'tastes'.

    I found the 2010 Prius tracks better than our 2003 Prius. However, I've also found long distance travel in our older, 2003 Prius is not nearly as fatiguing as our earlier, non-hybrid vehicles. The 2003 Prius doesn't have the fatiguing noise and vibration so driving 14 or more hours in a day is entirely practical with just ordinary breaks. I have done two, 24 hour trips in the 2003 Prius only possible because it doesn't 'beat me up.' The ZVW30, 2010 Prius is even better but I don't expect others to share my taste in vehicles or driving.

    The one problem with the 2010 Prius is my wife drives with a lead foot. She had the car up to 93 mph and I didn't notice it until I looked at the GSP speed. Our non-Prius cars complained a lot at speeds over 90 mph and became uncomfortable. The 2010 handles it quietly and smoothly ... even on Tennessee roads.

    Still, this thread remains and TDI advocates continue to make themselves available for conversion ... or at least getting a clue. It isn't as if Prius advocates have to hang out in TDI forums ... a behavior that has a name. I suspect there are many fine GM and Chrysler forums that need the 'TDI good news.'

    Bob Wilson
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,109
    It isn't as if Prius advocates have to hang out in TDI forums ... a behavior that has a name.

    Ah, but you are wrong. I have been on the diesel and TDI forum since 1998 and from the first Prius entering this country we have had TDI envy posters making snide remarks and posting inaccurate data about diesel cars. And if you noticed this thread is a Prius vs Golf TDI. Which, if you were not aware, the Golf TDI beat out the 2010 Prius as "Green Car of the Year". It was also picked as the World Car of the Year over the Prius. The Prius appeals to a small segment of the World's population, mostly in high mileage deprived USA. There are dozens of diesel cars in the World that get better than 52 MPG. You just cannot buy one here in the Land of the Free.
  • " . . . posting inaccurate data about diesel cars . . . "

    Well that was rude. Were any of them Prius advocates or just the usual net detritis?

    " . . . if you were not aware . . . "

    Perhaps you were not aware of November car sales:
    - Prius sales exceeded VW TDI sales 3x
    - Toyota hybrid sales exceeded VW TDI sales 4x
    - All hybrid sales exceeded VW TDI sales by 5x

    The voters used $24-$30,000 ballots. The December voting has already started.

    ". . . dozens of diesel cars . . . get better than 52 MPG . . ."

    Which one is the full size, Prius sized version that does 52 MPG in the City?

    Bob Wilson
  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 7,743
    Comparison of the cars in the title is fine, but please let's not turn this into "hybrid vs diesel" which has ended badly in several discussions.

    I understand that passions on both sides run high, but this discussion is supposed to be for those folks who might be trying to decide between the two vehicles, not a place to "prove" anything.

    Thanks for your cooperation and participation!

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  • If you do not like the factory Navi system in your Toyota, next time buy one without it. I have an 07 Maxima with factory Navi that I do not like as much as my $300 portable unit I use in my 07 Prius. A less user friendly factory Navi system in a vehicle does not make the entire vehicle bad or the company bad.
    My brother-in-law live in PA and have an 06 Sienna with navigation that he just paid $200 6 months ago to update his navigation DVD.
    I myself would not buy an unreliable car because they provide the greatest navigation system on the market.
    I like both hybrid and diesel cars. You do not have to put hybrid down because you like diesel vehicles. Either vehicles would reduce our energy consumption and dependence on the middle east.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,109
    I was making a point about the cheap electronics sold in Toyota vehicles. That of course does not have much to do with hybrids or diesels. When you buy a vehicle and find the one you want, if it has NAV which was not a high priority for me, you expect it to work well. It was a poor substitute for a AAA map from the get go. My biggest gripe at the time was being lied to by the dealer. They assured me I could get an XM receiver that would integrate with their NAV. After the papers are signed and the check is handed to them we find out that it is not available with the top of the LINE Sequoia. So yes I have lots to complain about with Toyota.

    And the good side. I do like driving the Sequoia. It handles nicely for its size. If it had a diesel engine I would consider putting in decent electronics and keeping it.
  • I don't like the Navi in my Maxima that much either, but I like the rest of the car. In today's market, I think we would all be better off with a portable navigation system. At about 2K is too much to pay for a factory Navi system.
    Unfortunately some of car salesmen are not too honest, they will bend the truth to make a sale. There are also good car salesmen also. You need to get everything down in writing before signing the contract.
    On another subject, I would love to see diesel cars + truck to be offered by the Japanese and Korean companies. The less fuel we burn, the longer the oil supply will last for all of us. Also less pollution. Enjoy your Sequoia.
  • backybacky Twin CitiesPosts: 18,906
    One of these two cars was runner-up to the Ford Fusion for Motor Trend's COTY. Actually, both were among the "finalists" for the award. But one got perfect scores in all but 3 categories, and 4 out of 5 in those 3. It got 2 first-place votes, but not quite enough to grab COTY from the Fusion.

    The MT COTY runner-rup was the 2010 Prius.
  • I enjoyed reading this thread. Thank you for all the passionate writing.

    What caused me to decide on the Golf TDI was the comfort of the sport seat and the feel of the leather wrapped steering wheel. The bolstering of the seat was snug and I was able to find the perfect seat adjustment. Also, I wanted the $1700 tax credit. And 236 lb feet of torque should mean a peppy around town ride. Now I am going to wait for three months for it to be delivered.

    Again, thanks for all your interesting posts.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,109
    If they put the same seats as the GTI has, I would love them. Really comfortable seats. Hope they deliver soon so we can get your impressions of your new Golf TDI.
  • Don't forget the difference in the price of diesel versus regular. Here in New England diesel is slightly more expensive than premium, around 15% more than regular. This cuts into the cost savings over the regular gas compact cars, against the Prius it really makes a big differnce.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,109
    Here in CA diesel and RUG are both running about $2.79 per gallon. Though diesel varies widely from $2.57 to $3.49 per gallon. RUG varies from $2.69 to $3.48. Premium is $2.91 going all the way to $3.75.

    Bottom line is a person should drive both and make the decision based on need and wants. For me the MPG is not at the top of the list.
  • ". . . What caused me to decide on the Golf TDI was the comfort of the sport seat and the feel of the leather wrapped steering wheel. The bolstering of the seat was snug and I was able to find the perfect seat adjustment. . . ."

    That is how it should be. Your money, your requirements, and your decision. Others have a different weight for their requirements and that of course is their right ... it is their money.

    Bob Wilson
  • I'm hunkering down for a 3-4 month wait for my TDI. The dealer was not encouraging about any quick delivery. This is okay. Anticipation is fun. And I really don't need the car until my girlfriend's leased vehicle's miles are used up. Then I'll pass my Subaru Outback to her.
  • "Then I'll pass my Subaru Outback to her."

    What are her vehicle requirements?

    Bob Wilson
  • or prius lovers look at the article below - 23395619

    That doesn't sound like 'a bulletproof' vehicle. at least in 2010 or in other prius models such as 2006 where now there are over 700 problems (773 at 1:21PM PST on 2/4/10) reported by NHTSA. Also for the record, people who think tranny problems are worse than brake problems, BOTH of these problems can get people killed on the road. And in terms of more problems per capita according to NHTSA in the recent models between Prius and TDIs, Prius wins it hands down almost all the cases from 2006.
    2009 Prius seemed to be more reliable than 2009 Jetta TDIs, but the 2009 Prius problems reports have increased faster than 2009 Jetta TDIs. It can be than Jetta TDI drivers don't want to report their issues, but how come the Prius problems are increasing by the day? Just go to this website and type Prius 2006 or any other year. Only 2009 has reported relatively low amount of problems (but they are piling up as I speak) . Then the bad streak started again in 2010.
  • All the toyota fans still think the reliability is bulletproof? looks like Toyota's been taking a nap on quality control.
  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,109
    Makes the choice between a Prius and a Golf TDI a no brainer. VW is known for being able to stop when you apply the brakes. They also have had safe guards against unintended acceleration for over a decade. If Toyota had spent the money on engineering the hybrids on simple diesel solutions we would all be better off and safer on the roads.
  • gogogodzillagogogodzilla VirginiaPosts: 707
    Wait for it. You know that all the die-hard Toyota owners will now be claiming that reliability doesn't matter. That it's all about handling, performance, and fun.

    Oh, wait... Toyota doesn't have any of that to tide their owners over until reliability improves.

  • gagricegagrice San DiegoPosts: 31,109
    Toyota is recalling all their 2010 Prius world wide. They are unsafe braking on ice and rough roads. One of our posters was unlucky enough to get one of the first models. Hope he has not had a failure. It is a software problem. That gives me a warm fuzzy feeling knowing the only thing between me and stopping a car is a computer program. Let's get back to basics. Straight hydraulic brakes work and give plenty of warning before they start to fail. VW has some of the best braking systems in the World. Makes the Golf TDI a great choice if you can find one. They sell before they get off the truck.
This discussion has been closed.