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The Rebirth of Buick.........



  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    I never really liked the name "Invicta". Sounds too much like a combination of "Convict" and "Indict". Wildcat was a cool name, though, and so was Centurion. I thought LeSabre was a good name too, but probably has too much of a senior citizen aura attached to it these days. A lot of 40-50-somethings probably bought LeSabres back in the day...only problem is, those very people kept right on buying them, but were now 60-70+ somethings and buying them less frequently, while not enough "new" 40-50-somethings were buying them, as they were probably going for Acuras, Lexuses, BMW's, or Hondas and Toyotas (note that Toyota often gets referred to as a Japanese Buick)

    And yeah, Lemko, as I typed that statement about teen and twenty-somethings tending to not buy larger cars, I did have you in mind! :P
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    I would like to see a leSabre replacement. I don't need a Park Avenue and that eventually cooled me on the Lucerne. The lower price end was not as fully equipped as the higher-priced models.

    One thing I appreciated about the LeSabre, and the older Park Avenue, is that they got pretty good fuel economy, and weren't so heavy that they strained the 3800's performance. However, the Lucerne seemed to push the limits of the 3800, and and suffered a bit in both fuel economy and acceleration. If you went with the V-8, you got good performance, but a further hit to fuel economy, and you also got hit with a noticeable price increase.

    In reality though, it wasn't a huge hit in fuel economy. I think the LeSabre was rated at 20/30 and the Park Ave was 19/29 (less if supercharged though), while the Lucerne was something like 19/28 with the 3800, before they started with those dumbed-down 2007 ratings.

    I wouldn't mind a nice, low-mileage used LeSabre or Park Ave. Only problem is, they've both been out of production long enough that it's not like you can just go and find a nice 1-2 year old example anymore and get an almost-new car at a fraction of the price.

    As andre1969 points out, not many single kids in their twenties are shopping for a full size sedan with ability to carry people and luggage in comfort, so aiming the naming at them is a waste of money.

    Actually, I did take a little bit of ribbing when I bought my Intrepid. I was 29 at the time, so about 15-16 years (or more, if I was wrong about its average buyer age) below the median buyer age. I remember one of my friends, who had a Civic, asking me why I bought a car like that..."it just screams FAMILY", he commented. Coulda been worse though...or better, depending on your perspective. A week or two before I bought the Intrepid, I went to a dealer to look at a '94 and '96 Caprice, and was kinda hot for the '96.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 21,319
    LeSabre is a name that probably has less "goodwill" attached than Park Avenue has.

    I see lots of younger people buying used Park Avenues and leSabres and Bonnevilles that are in their price range. What effect will their ownership of a used Park Avenue have on their openness to buying a vehicle in the future with the name Park Avenue on a new offering from GM?

    In this region, used Auroras, Park A's, leSabres, Bonnevilles, Rivieras, and others all seem to be very popular as lower price purchases. I've seen lots of great-looking Auroras and Rivieras that have been traded in for something or sold outright by owners who must have kept them in their garage and driven them only on Sunday. They are really good looking. Some are being urbanized with larger wheels, but most are kept more or less original.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    When I was 19, I bought a 1979 Buick Park Avenue
    When I was 22, I bought a new 1987 Chevrolet Caprice Classic
    When I was 24, I bought a new 1989 Cadillac Brougham
    When I was 29, I bought a new 1994 Cadillac DeVille

    I like Buick's traditional names: Special, Century, Super, Roadmaster, and Limited.

    Well, Century's a no-go. Century used to refer the to the "Banker's Hot Rod" when Buick put the big Roadmaster engine in the lighter Special in 1936- sort of a proto-muscle car. Today, "Century" has the perception of the average age of its drivers.

    Roadmaster's an excellent name blighted by the failed 1992-96 car. Still, I'd love to have a 1994-96 Roadmaster with the LT-1 derived engine.

    I think "Special" would still be a great name for an entry level Buick - entry level meaning something like the current LaCrosse and not what is essentially a low-end Chevrolet with the tri-shield slapped on it!

    I've seen "Super" used on recent trim levels of the LaCrosse and Lucerne.

    Limited should be reserved for the ULTIMATE Buick - I'm talking LOADED Lexus LS level. Buick Limiteds were once a preferred conveyance of royalty.
  • tjc78tjc78 JerseyPosts: 6,413
    I thought I was the only one:

    17 - 89 Grand Marquis
    20 - 98 Olds 88 (total lemon didn't last long 9 months)
    21 - 2000 Toyota Solara (how'd that happen?)
    21 - 79 Continental
    23 - 89 Town Car

    Now 31 and drive a Genesis after two Japanese Buicks (Avalons)

    Love the big "boats" I took plenty of heat from my friends for my car choices. Would also love the idea of big RWD Buick, GM has the hardware to do it.

    2017 Buick Enclave / 2017 Hyundai Elantra

  • I don't care for the name "Special" because over the years, it was the least special of the Buicks when the name was in use. Having said that, I do like my red and white 1954 Buick Special and it is special to me.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    "...However, the Lucerne seemed to push the limits of the 3800, and and suffered a bit in both fuel economy and acceleration. If you went with the V-8, you got good performance, but a further hit to fuel economy, and you also got hit with a noticeable price increase."

    The newer 3.9 may be a good compromise. Being a 60 degree V6, it should be smoother and more refined than the 90 degree 3800, even though the latter has balance shafts. It's probably a little quicker than the 3800 too, and less front end heavy than the V8. Don't know if the 3.9 is as rugged as the 3800, though.
  • berriberri Posts: 7,741
    How about Skylark?
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Skylark? The worst Buick of the last 20 years? Are you kidding?

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • berriberri Posts: 7,741
    But in the 60's and 70's they were some of the sharpest coupes and convertibles on the road. Also a great combo of luxury and sport. You're right about the X car version however! When you think about it, GM pretty much wrecked every great, classic brand name they had. Talk about lost intangible goodwill assets from their balance sheet.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    I think the X-car version shows just how much equity the Skylark name had at the time! The X-car Skylark was dropped after 1985, a year it still managed to sell around 90,000 units. Yet the name carried on, used for the N-body, from 1986 on up through around 1996-97 (these cars persisted for a year or two as fleet-only models along with the Olds Achieva, after being dropped from general public availability). In contrast, the Citation name was retired completely after 1985, and the Phoenix and Omega had the plug pulled after 1984!

    I don't know if the Skylark really was built better than the other X-cars, or maybe it just appealed to an older clientele that maintained them better, but somehow it more or less side-stepped the bad rap that the other X-es had.

    Still, I just don't care for the name anymore. To me, it's one of those names that sounds great on an old 50's or 60's car, but it just has more of a nostalgic ring to it, that seems out of place on a modern car. It's kinda like seeing a hot, sexy young supermodel or stripper, and then finding out later that her name is Audrey or Myrtle or Ethel.

    For some reason, I always thought the name "Skyhawk" was good...if not the car the name ended up on.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    Yeah I think the 3.9 might be a bit better-suited to the Lucerne. I think it's EPA-rated at 17/26, while the Lucerne's 3.8 was rated at 16/25 using the new rating system (19/28 under the old). And it has a bit more power...227 hp versus around 195. I forget the torque specs, but it's better there, too.

    As for durability, I haven't heard anything bad about these newer 3.5/3.9 engines. The old 2.8/3.1/3.4 tended to blow head gaskets, and they also went through a rash of plastic intake manifold problems, but I don't think those traits have been engineered out, with the newer engines.
  • nbdeucenbdeuce Posts: 22
    Drove a Park A up to 200,000 miles and donated it to our office janitor in very good mechanical condition. Now own a Regal which just hit 200,000 miles and runs well.
    Just tested(rented for 2 days) the new LaCross and loved the ride, not crazy about the blind spots but nice automobile. Not sure I'm jumping on this one!
    Drivetrains on my old Buicks were flawless....That said, I did have plenty of issues with power options, windows/door locks and such.
    I kind of liked my Buicks!!!!!!
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,294
    Ugh!!! The Skyhawk was the WORST car to wear the Buick tri-shield! I'd like to find the guys who green-lighted the Skyhawk and make like Jigsaw on them!

    Anybody remember the Buick Apollo? That name might've meant something back in the late '60s / early '70s with the NASA moon landing missions of the same name. The Buick Apollo was nothing but a Nova clone anyway.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    The Buick Apollo was nothing but a Nova clone anyway.

    Some of those Nova clones were pretty upscale inside, if you got the higher trim levels. But once the Nova Concours and Nova LN (Luxury Nova) came out, it made the Buick/Pontiac/Olds versions a bit redundant. And to add insult to injury, by 1977-79 at least, the Nova offered a bigger engine. You could get a Chevy 350 right up through the end, but by that timeframe the Phoenix/Omega/Skylark only offered a 305 as the top engine. And I think the non-California Phoenixes might have offered the 301.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    ".....Anybody remember the Buick Apollo? "

    My first car!!!! Too bad it had the 105 hp. 231 instead of the 350 4bbl.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,683
    2011 Buick Regal Headed for the 2009 L.A. Auto Show (Straightline)

    Autobahn, because it's a reskinned Opel Insignia.

  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    with NA and turbo FOURS, no less!

    They should offer it as a coupe as well.

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • Yeah same drive line as the 9-3 2.0T.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    Well, it's still an in house driveline.
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    Except - and I may be behind the times on this - I don't think the 9-3 has direct injection.
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    this thing is almost a perfect match-up to the Passat 2.0T. But VW is about to dump the existing Passat in favor of a larger cheaper sedan with a less powerful more boring engine, because the existing Passat won't sell.

    Does this bode well?

    I forget if I've seen the specs on the new S60 - will it outgun this new Regal? The only other thing I can think of offhand in its price range is the Acura TSX, which isn't a strong competitor and has the poor sales to show for it. Oh, and then there's the new A4, a spiffy competitor if ever there was one (but for more money, right?).

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • Pics of the new S60 are out there.

    Some are here and I think edmunds has some too.

    What we were told at a product update back a couple of months ago was that the new S60 will launch with a 300 hp version of the 280ish hp T6 currently in the S80/XC70/XC60. It will have AWD standard.

    Later on I would expect the non-turbo version of that motor to come out with FWD and hopefully in the US we will get a four or five cylinder with direct injection similar to the Ecoboost setup ford has.

    GM is launching the Regal the way I think Volvo should launch the S60 in this economic climate. Launch the car with the two more base engines first then bring out the top of the line motors later in the year.
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770
    ".....GM is launching the Regal the way I think Volvo should launch the S60 in this economic climate. Launch the car with the two more base engines first then bring out the top of the line motors later in the year. "

    Even in this "gotta have it NOW, yesterday, if possible please" era we live in, it probably is smart to establish yourself, and then ratchet it up a notch. I would imagine that funds are tight right now. If they weren't I'll bet GM could've made a small fortune selling diesels from Europe last year, but the money to convert them to clean status in this country wasn't (and still isn't) there.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 11,859
    it looks great!
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2014 Ford F-150 FX4
  • cooterbfdcooterbfd Posts: 2,770

    $26,995 for the CXL.

    Made in Germany until the Oshawa plant is up and running.
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,040
    I wonder how that thing's going to perform though, with only 182 hp? Maybe the 6-speed automatic will help.

    A 4-cyl Regal almost sounds blasphemous. Base engine should at least be a 350! :P
  • hpmctorquehpmctorque Posts: 4,600
    " Base engine should at least be a 350!"

    I assume you're joking because, otherwise, how do you reconcile 350 with the government's fuel economy standards?
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