Hybrid Vehicle Maintenance, Repair and Concerns

74apollo

You might want to call the previous owner and find out why he/she got rid of it. There are some serious issues with the tire control arms that are discussed under a different forum. You might want to read through that.

killerbunny1

Good point about CR-V. we've replaced the A/C compressor 2 times (i.e.vehicle's third compressor) before 55,000 miles! We are considering buying a Honda-certified 2008 Civic Hybrid for $18K, but now are wondering if cost savings will be offset by high maintenance. Judging by posts on this thread, we're better off getting a regular fuel-efficient Fit or even Nissan Versa.

vertex

My 2006 has DTC P0A00 which is not listed in the manual. However, it is a generic electric motor coolant code. I checked the 2 sensors, for MG1 and MG2, and find they are OK, about 125K at 40F. The ECU has 5V at the connector with it unplugged from the motor. Is there anything else that can cause this, or is my ECU fried? :sick:

george128

As advertised by Honda, I do not feel that my car ever goes to electric drive only . Honda says under 35 mph on a level road with a battery sufficiently charged,engine warm,light throttle.and in city cruising etc.that it does.The service mgr says it is happening but you won't know it and also said that if it fails that an error code occurs.I asked for specifics as to when it will happen and got no answers and no error code involved.In my letter to Honda in California I was pushed back to the Dealer.So I have no answers.Are there any thoughts on this issue?

envirofriend

I'd like feedback to that question also. I see the engine go to auto stop when i come to a stop (which is often since i drive short trips in the city. I'm up to about 800 miles and am still only getting about 27-29 mpg. true most of my trips are under 5 miles. is that the main reason? i do notice when i go on slightly longer drives within the city, it goes up to low 30's. but it may be that i am just driving such short distances i will never see a significant increase in mileage. i am going to have to consider riding a bike more often.

Mr_Shiftright

Your overall miles on the odometer are too few yet to accurately calculate fuel mileage and yes, short trips are usually run on a cold engine (resistant from cold fluids) andan enriched fuel mixture.

Once you hit about 3,000 miles or so, go on a freeway trip for 100-200 miles and I bet you'll see a big jump.

As your car breaks it, even short trip mileage should increase but 5 mile trips are not easy on a car's fuel economy. If you were driving ALL DAY in the city, that would improve things because the car's properly warmed up.

stevedebi

"As advertised by Honda, I do not feel that my car ever goes to electric drive only . Honda says under 35 mph on a level road with a battery sufficiently charged,engine warm,light throttle.and in city cruising etc.that it does.The service mgr says it is happening but you won't know it and also said that if it fails that an error code occurs.I asked for specifics as to when it will happen and got no answers and no error code involved.In my letter to Honda in California I was pushed back to the Dealer.So I have no answers.Are there any thoughts on this issue? "

The HMA system uses electric motors in the drivetrain, to assist the gasoline engine. To my mind that means there is no way for the car to run on electric only (it would essentially be running the engine, which is connected to the drivetrain - unless they somehow uncoupled the automatic transmission). The Internet articles I've read indicate the IMA cannot run on electric only.

The advantage of this system is that it doesn't require a lot of hybrid-specific changes to the vehicle (it is essentially an add-on to the current transmission), and therefore costs less than a "two-mode" hybrid, which is capable of running on electric (for a short distance), hybrid-electric, or gasoline.

I had thought that the IMA only turned off the engine at stops.

Anyone else?

kdhspyder

I believe that you are correct ^^^^.

The IMA has an electric motor attached to the engine output shaft which 'assists' the motor to run more efficiently, ergo the Integraged Motor Assist ( IMA ) nomenclature.

AFAIK it is not possible for the IMA vehicles to drive on electric power alone, except maybe at startup from a dead stop for a very very short distance ( meters ).

OTOH the very elegant engineering solution that Honda has created is less expensive and more compact than Ford's or Toyota's or GM's so it's well suited to smaller and less expensive vehicles, the Civic hybrid and the Fit hybrid ( Insight II ).

dber

My 08 Civic Hybrid with 35K miles has burned through the OEM Dunlop tires averaging just over 50mpg (calculated using overflow fill-ups). Mileage was increasing with tire wear--the last 4K miles on them averaged just over 53mpg.

I have replaced with the Dunlops with an 80K mi.Yokohama tire running at a little higher pressure and my mileage has gone in the tank--averaging 46mpg over first thousand miles. Is it these tires, new tires, or can someone offer some other arcane explanation?

dber

xkmail1

Yes.
I replaced the stock dunlops with costco michelin x radials, my mpg dropped from 40~ to 32~ overnight.
With 3000 miles break in I have no improvement
running 32psi, then 40psi.
Run the dunlops

kdhspyder

It takes a while for the new tires to become 'broken in'. Many report significantly lower fuel economy after putting on new shoes. The tire is heavier because it has more tread and the thicker tread grips better ( more friction ). A temporary loss of 10% in fuel economy is not unusual.

Watch after 5000 miles.

whitey9

It is difficult for me to fathom how ANY drop in fuel economy could ever be TEMPORARY with the replacement of tires.
I would expect that loss to be permanent.
If the replacements are less efficient, then I would fully expect the drop to be permanent.
By less efficient, I mean in terms of rolling resistance.
I have seen estimates of from 2%, up to 25% of total fuel economy.
That indeed seems like a very wide varience.

xkmail1

I have the gas receipts and mileage to show that statement about mpg coming up is false.
I have now over 5000 miles on my costco michelin x radials.
MPG when pulling in to replace tires, average 40-43mpg, straight highway driving at 60-65mph 43 constant, one trip to san diego from los angeles doing 60mph was 58mpg, 118 miles traveled about 2 gallons of gas.
The next tank 30mpg, now 4 months later over 5000 miles at 32mpg~.
On a 3000 lbs car the actual tire losing less than an ounce or two of weight has no scientific or practical reasoning to gain back 10mpg.
The costco michelins saved me about $150 over the dunlops.
Each tank of gas with the michelins is costing me $8 more, In 4 months I have allready lost my savings on the cheaper tire, and used up non-reusable natural resources.
The stock dunlops rock!
If I wasn't so broke I would go to americas tire and get the 4 stock dunlops.

Mr_Shiftright

How might a person know if there is confusion here between Causation and merely Correlation? Maybe something happened to the car at the same time the tires were installed...in other words, maybe 2+2 =5 in this case? That's a formidable drop in MPG. Unless the replacement tires were a) much wider and b) put on MUCH larger diameter specialty wheels (which can really eat into MPG) I'm really surprised that this could happen just with a tire brand switch.

But live and learn. I guess you could switch back to original tires to prove or disprove the theory.

galileo5

I saw Honda announce that, too, on its official press release, but from all the Insight test-drive reports I read online, they all say that it cannot run on electric-mode alone.

The gas shuts off on the Insight only when it comes to a complete stop or when you're rolling downhill.

That is the difference b/t a mild hybrid (Insight) and a full hybrid (Prius).

whitey9

My understanding of the Insight 2 system is that it is more-or-less identical to the current Civic system.
A cost-saving design.

lokki

http://www.seattleweekly.com/2009-04-22/news/the-flip-side-of-the-perfect-prius/- 4

Stories from other Prius owners involving unintended acceleration are fairly common,

Isn't this a fine Audi-do...?

Any one have have personal experiences?

Mr_Shiftright

There's always one part of these stories that I cannot accept---I can accept the idea of the car's accelerator getting stuck for whatever reason. I can even accept the car accelerating on its own possibly due to a faulty cruise control module, etc.

But I can't accept that people cannot stop the car by slamming on the brakes.

For this to happen would require the simultaneous failure of 2 or 3 systems on the car which are not directly connected to each other.

This part doesn't add up.

You will note that in the "reporter's story" he did in fact stop the car with the brakes and didn't hit anything. Even that story was kind of fishy, because he depicts himself casually pointing out to the salesman that the car is accelerating on its own. Maybe he's that cool under fire, I don't know.

Right now I'm thinking that yes, the cars might have a sticking throttle issue but that the driver's are stomping on the wrong pedal while in panic mode (which I myself might do--it's not a "fault" for the driver to do this).

tiff_c

But I can't accept that people cannot stop the car by slamming on the brakes

That is because you have never had unintended acceleration. I have! It was in a 1980's Ford LTD. I had witnesses outside the car many of them. But I have long since refused to discuss it since everyone will call you a liar.
Oh and I had no floor mats in that car either. It's happened to cops, doctors, lots of people but having had it happen you get lumped in with people who have seen UFO's or seen Bigfoot.
The brakes do not work when the engine is at wide open throttle. Believe what you want. The auto industry has been covering up this problem for many many years.

Mr_Shiftright

I wasn't at the scene, so I can't judge what really happened.

A car at WOT can be stopped in various ways, that's all I'm suggesting.

tiff_c

A car at WOT can be stopped in various ways, that's all I'm suggesting.

Well I used to drag race and for a short while I did some stock car racing a few years before that as well as a handful of Demolition derby events (held on the infield) at the stock car track. So I think I have a good idea of what it takes to stop a car at WOT. But when you're out on the road, you've been hit bad and you are facing large trucks and cars coming at you as well as buildings. It's a whole different game. That's why I hate automatics to this day.
It's easy to say it doesn't happen but when it does it's bad and virtually everyone will call you a liar. Those Cop interceptors were pretty damn fast in their day, at WOT they were a handful. As I said plenty of witnesses and all were ignored. Thankfully the guy who hit me lived as did I.
You don't have time to turn the key or bang it into neutral, I know I tried, you need both hands on the wheel at that point.
I was finally able to spin the car out and hit neutral before I jumped out. Lots of witnesses. They all saw and heard what happened. The cops didn't take any statements from anyone and moved the car from the scene even tho it was at the side of a building not blocking anything.

tiff_c

A car at WOT can be stopped in various ways, that's all I'm suggesting.

Well I used to drag race and for a short while I did some stock car racing a few years before that as well as a handful of Demolition derby events (held on the infield) at the stock car track. So I think I have a good idea of what it takes to stop a car at WOT. But when you're out on the road, you've been hit bad and you are facing large trucks and cars coming at you as well as buildings. It's a whole different game. That's why I hate automatics to this day.
It's easy to say it doesn't happen but when it does it's bad and virtually everyone will call you a liar. Those Cop interceptors were pretty damn fast in their day, at WOT they were a handful. As I said plenty of witnesses and all were ignored. Thankfully the guy who hit me lived as did I.
You don't have time to turn the key or bang it into neutral, I know I tried, you need both hands on the wheel at that point.
I was finally able to spin the car out and hit neutral before I jumped out. Lots of witnesses. They all saw and heard what happened. The cops didn't take any statements from anyone and moved the car from the scene even tho it was at the side of a building not blocking anything.

tiff_c

As I said reliving that moment is difficult for me. 2 people nearly died.
Believe what you want, it's not easy to stop a high HP automatic car at WOT.
It's off topic and I'm happy to drop it at this point.

whitey9

I remember I had a runaway while driving a '72 M-B 280SEL 4.5L.
The car was part of a recall. A little plastic bushing in a part of the accel linkage deteriorated and the throttle becamed jammed after I popped it during a test drive.
I immediately jammed hard on the brakes while noticing the cinder-block wall ahead becoming closer, and closer.
The front brakes locked, but the rear wheels continued to spin on the damp pavement. Onward and closer to the wall I sped.
Then, in a flash of panic, I reached forward and switched off the ignition.
The parking/emergency brake was of little use, as it was the old-type that required pulling on a handle.
Besides, if the V-8 engine was able to overpower the rear brakes, then the parking brake would not help at all.
The whole thing came to a stinking, smoking stop just yards short of the building wall.
I immediately ordered, and then replaced the neoprene bushing with the modified metal version.
I could hear my heart pounding in my ears. My breathing was short and checked.
It was a heck of an experience!

Mr_Shiftright

Is the Prius completely electronic throttle or is there linkage? I don't have one to look at, at the moment, and I've driven them extensively but never much examined them mechanically.

I have still never heard an adequate explanation of how an electronically throttled car could go WOT from idle at a stoplight. That would be interesting to hear, as a theoretical problem, from an engineer who might know.

A mechanical throttle like your Benz would only stick as far as you stepped on it---although I could see a spring failure causing you to go WOT when you didn't want to.

But as you say, all you have to do is switch off the ignition. It's a good thing for everyone to practice actually. This is why race cars have a big red ignition shut off in easy reach.

The Prius power button isn't too hard to reach...if you remember to do it.

jmt4

I have a Honda Civic Hybrid (2003). My air conditioner will quit cooling after about 20-30 minutes of driving. This is a sporadic problem and seems to occur more on a warm day. It will not cool again until the car has been off for an hour or more. Turning of the a/c for an hour while still driving does nothing.

I went to the Honda Dealership about 3 to 4 weeks ago. It did not fail for them and they tested the a/c - checking the freon, hoses, connections, and used their guages, etc. They recommended we try replacing a relay as they thought it might be overheating. They did not know if it would work or not. So, we tried that and it has not worked. They also said they did not know what it could be if the relay did not work. So, I'm not real confident about going back there. Any ideas on what the problem could be? Should I go to a different Honda dealership or try one of the local auto repair shops?

Mr_Shiftright

You should take it to an AC specialist shop. Could be the expansion valve or the compressor could be freezing up. There are a number of good possibilities. The dealer's guess wasn't a very sensible one IMO.

hpmctorque

I agree with what you've said regarding unintended acceleration, shifty. One thing to consider, though, is if you kill the engine by shutting off the ignition you'd lose the vacuum boost on the power brakes.

Mr_Shiftright

that is true but if you press down with both feet you can stop. It's just a lot harder...and most cars have a vacuum reservoir, so you get a few pumps anyway.

fitnfun

I am purchasing a new Fit and my dealer is trying to sell me an Advent security system for $320, which he claims is at their cost. I'm not really sure what this low end security system does. I can upgrade this system to one that includes an alarm but is $800. I live near an area that has its share of auto thefts. Do I really need an additional security system with alarm or without? Or is this a ripoff? Or would the "standard security system with remote control" that comes with the car be enough?

Mr_Shiftright

If your car is equipped from the factory with an immobilizer type of alarm & security system, these are highly effective (cuts theft about 65%) and I can't see anything else doing a better job UNLESS you install a GPS type of alarm/tracking system (cuts successful theft 95%).

If you are worried about contents INSIDE the car (sound system, etc) there is no defense against theft. They'll just break your window with a rock, and everyone ignores audible alarms.

fitnfun

Thank you...I was told by the dealer that the car does not come equipped with any system that activates a horn or lights, which is what I think I need. I may need to spring for some type of system that makes noise or flashes lights.
Good point about the rock...

Mr_Shiftright

if you have the immobilizer, I think that's all you need. Lights and sirens are really worthless, and I have read that 95% of all audible car alarms are FALSE alarms anyway.

Which is why everyone, and I do mean everyone, ignores them.

There are systems that page you if there's an incident. That seems more worthwhile.

whitey9

I am looking at the Honda.com website, and it lists a security system on the Sport model. Standard. Not $800, or even $350.
I have some 35 year-old Advent speakers. And I know they made a projection TV at one point, but I don't know of any alarm that is added on worth $800.
If they are going to charge you for some Mickey Mouse alarm system, then I might check into a Sport model. It does cost more that a base model, but in addition to the keyless entry/security system there is more car than a Fit w/o the alarm system.
Most insurance companies give a discount on your premium if the car has a passive, or active security system.
I would go with the Honda system, and forget about the HIGH-PROFIT add-on Advent "hodge-podge".
But then maybe it is allright. Only you will know a year down the road. But it WONT be covered by the factory warranty for the full term.
To discourage break ins, hide your stuff. Don't tempt them.
Between the base model, and the Sport, you pick up 2 more speakers, a USB port, cruise control, fog lights, alloy wheels, etc.

whitey9

I am sure my life is worth more than ANY Honda Fit. Forget the paging security systems.
Just hide your stuff, and hope for the best.
The immobilizer is standard on most cars. Maybe a Federal law. It is built into the key. It prevents the engine from starting. That is the minimum I would consider.

Mr_Shiftright

Immobilizers work very well right from the factory.

As for paging, I was thinking that you could peek through the blinds and then call the cops, not confront anyone. That's pretty risky.

igandalf2

I have a 2004 Civic Hybrid with 163,000 miles. I have taken it in for regular servicing, and has run fairly well. I have have one large issue with this vehicle. After about 30,000 miles I noticed the transmission was "slipping" when I would accelerate at higher speeds, typically above 55 mph. I took this to the dealer and paid for them to check it out and diagnose the problem, but to no avail. Finally after about 60,000 miles were on it (I drive about 30,000 miles per year) the dealer and I realized that this didn't happen after the transmission fluid was replaced. So to "fix" this we replaced the transmission fluid at shorter intervals (at my cost). Unfortunately, with the CVT they can only replace about 1/3 of the fluid at the time, so I would actually not have the fluid completely replaced until after 3 servicings, (At $85.00 a pop) This did, however, fix the issue. Aparrently, the older fluid was causing the issue. As the car got older, the transmission began making a quiet grinding noise. I paid to have the dealer check it out. They told me that this was "normal wear and tear". Recently, the noise became much louder. I took it to the dealer to check it out. I now need a new transmission at $3800.00. It only has 163,000 miles on it and it needs a new transmission! Whatever money I saved because of this hybrid's higher mileage, has been poured back into all the service that has had to be performed on this CVT Hybrid. I recently bought a Pilot. I sure hope this works out better... since I can't afford to replace the CVT just yet.

Mr_Shiftright

Ah well, too bad, but you know, all things considered, 163,000 for a transmission is just about normal life span.

jqtljr

I have almost 128,000 miles on my Civic Hybrid (2003). I loved my car the first 3 years and I've hated ever since. Started with the same transmission problem that everyone else had ($1900 in repairs) and then moved on to the IMA battery being replaced ($2700 for that). All within 6 months. And of course the IMA replacement came 2 weeks after I lost my job. The battery came in a hazmat truck from California, which got me wondering, what happens to all these hybrid batteries? Are they going to end up in a landfill and cause more pollution?
Anyway, the car goes back in first thing in the morning because of a weird knocking noise it just started making today. I can't wait until I find a new job so I can unload this piece of crap and go back to a gas engined American car.

whitey9

I might have unloaded at 100K mi. When the extended warranty expired.
I plan on doing so on our Mariner hybrid, and the Prius too.
Time will tell. We will see.
I expect if your dealer/city deals with the battery responsibly it will be treated as it should be. Or it will be along the side of the road way out in the county.
As I said earlier, time will tell.
Best of luck!

kdhspyder

I just passed 115,000 miles in 3-1/2 yrs without any problems that I didn't cause myself.

My friend is waiting for his third Prius in 2 weeks. His 2nd Prius just passed 245,000 miles with no problems whatsoever and he's still getting 50 mpg on a daily basis. He posts here from time to time as well.

I have heard that the HCH's have had more reliability problems than the Toyota's or Fords.

Regarding the battery issue you only have to do some simple research on the internetz to find out about the NiMH's. There is a whole thread here about it. They are non-toxic. They can be safely disassembled in your garage. You can look it up as they say. You're probably thinking that the NiMH batteries are similar to the lead-acid batteries in most other vehicles. They're not at all the same.

gagrice

I have heard that the HCH's have had more reliability problems than the Toyota's or Fords.

I agree that Honda has had more problems with their hybrid system as it neared end of life than Toyota. I am not a fan of the centrifugal clutch type transmission. OK for a snow machine. I want gears and positive drive.

I doubt I will ever own a vehicle with 115k miles on it. My truck I bought with 106K miles 3 years ago is just past 112K. I want my vehicles to last a long time. Hybrids are just not going to get it for 10 plus years in my opinion. Part of our throw away society.

kdhspyder

Well since the first ones delivered here are just reaching 8-1/2 years they are just reaching your magical 10 yr limit. Since the warranties in your state are at a minimum of 10 yrs / 150,000 miles there doesn't seem to be much risk of them not lasting 10 yrs or more.

More unnecessary issues to worry about. I drive one and I expect it to go 250,000 to 300,000 miles as have many already. Nothing to see here, time to move on.

gagrice

I expect it to go 250,000 to 300,000 miles as have many already. Nothing to see here, time to move on.

For you miles are everything. To me they are unimportant. Only longevity counts. There are many other parts beside the battery that are not warranted for 10 years. The reason I bought the Platinum Toyota 7 year 75k mile warranty for my Sequoia. I doubt that I will keep it that long. All cars are expensive to maintain when the warranty expires. Hybrids have 30% more parts to break.

Mr_Shiftright

I realize it's all anecdotal, but I have many friends with Toyota hybrids of one sort or another, from 2003 to 2008 models, and nobody has had a stitch of trouble. Some of these cars have been cross-country a number of times.

These cars are not my cup of tea but if someone asked me about projected reliability over the course of 10 years, I'd have to say I'd be reasonably optimistic.

misterme

I bought a new Honda Civic Hybrid in 2004 (2004 Model).
I did nothing but basic maintenance (Rotation, oil chg) up until I replaced 4 tires at 88,000 miles. At 130,000 miles I noticed the beginning of a shudder/bad transmission noise and brought it into the dealer at 133,000 miles.

They replaced the "Start clutch" which apparently is the main clutch system. Bill would have been $1300 but Honda paid half under for a good faith measure.

I thought it was exceptional Honda would pay for half my cost at 133,000 miles.

The transmission band slips a little under moderate acceleration. When that happens I have them drain/fill the CVT fluid and it fixes it for another 15-20k miles.

Honda offered to pay half of a repair that would replace the band and controlling valve bodies but would still cost around $1,300. I declined the repair to continue occasionally changing the fluid.

Overall it's been a truly wonderful car.
I've averaged about 61MPG over the life of it calculating tank to tank and that sure was nice when gas was around $5/g. I've never owned such a fun car to drive and the mileage game keeps me from getting bored.

Other than the occasional transmission slip, the car starts/runs/drives/looks practically as it did new off the lot.

I've never had a vehicle last over 112,000 miles and that fact alone has me floored. Our other vehicle is a 2001 Grand Caravan at 94,000 and had two cylinder heads, steering rack, sliding door motors, window regulators, cruise control and AC compressor replaced- and seems to be nearing the end of it's utility.

My father just got a new Honda Insight and raves constantly about it. I'm sold on the Honda Hybrid line and will definetly replace mine with another someday.

-Steve

whitey9

Dear MisterMe,
You should know that eventually the friction material that wears off during the slipping process will all be worn off.
Then you will have to bite the bullet.
I might do the 1/2 cost deal w/Honda while they are still agreeable.

I have never owned a Honda, but those people I know who have/do, swear nicely by them, not badly like some other cars.

The new Insight has no back-seat legroom except for midgets. I can barely get thru the doorway, and have to strategically align my feet to enter.
The basic model is too poorly equipped, and the next model up has too much stuff.
Plus it is too slow to drive here in Dallas ( I would get run over ).

Gotta go, do the deal w/Honda now and save yourself some headaches.

igandalf2

How did you get Honda to pay half? I had the same issue. They told me it was normal wear and tear. I now have to replace the transmission @ $3400.. It has 160,000 miles on it. I first noticed the issue at 30,000 miles. I also noticed that replacing the trans fluid, more often, (at my cost) seemed to temporarily fix slippage.

joseph85750

I have a 2007 FEH, and love it so far!
However, there is this annoying sound that occurs after the AC has been running for a few minutes. The best way I can describe it is the sound those "clicker toy" things make (reference http://www.papertrove.com/servlet/Detail?no=278 ..sorry )

After the sound is happening, if I turn the AC off and only run vent, the sound will eventually go away. It appears to be coming from some device under the dash visible on the passenger side. It's about 5" x 4". I can feel the snapping/popping sound when I place my hand on this:

Picture of module

Anyone else have this problem or know what the issue might be?

joseph85750

A little more accurate info-- it sounds almost like a valve or vent is popping open/closed inside the device pictured.
My questions:
1) What exactly is this device pictured?
2) Could it be defective? Or are there some tubes/baffles inside it just needing adjustment?