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Hybrid Vehicle Maintenance, Repair and Concerns

in Toyota
This topic is for the discussion of the particular concerns, costs and repairs that current and future Hybrid vehicle owners are, or will be, dealing with.
By "hybrid", we mean any vehicle using some kind of interactive electric + internal combustion system.
All makes of hybrids are welcome here. Tell us your experiences in maintaining these vehicles, or if you might be planning to buy one, what your concerns are.
Are they reliable?
Live up to their promises?
Would you buy another?
Are you skeptical about hybrids?
Who makes the best one/type?
What particular issues have you had to deal with?
By "hybrid", we mean any vehicle using some kind of interactive electric + internal combustion system.
All makes of hybrids are welcome here. Tell us your experiences in maintaining these vehicles, or if you might be planning to buy one, what your concerns are.
Are they reliable?
Live up to their promises?
Would you buy another?
Are you skeptical about hybrids?
Who makes the best one/type?
What particular issues have you had to deal with?
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When we were in Vancouver, we rode from the airport to our hotel in a Corolla. One thing that struck me, besides the vehicle, was how gently the driver drove compared with most American taxi drivers tooling around in Crown Vics. That was confirmed by a ride back to the airport, this time in a previous generation Camry. It was apparent that both drivers were conscious of fuel consumption, and maximizing the longevity of their vehicles. New York taxi driver should take a lesson from these other drivers. Heck, even in Naples, Italy, where you can get some hair raising rides in taxis, with drivers disregarding traffic lights, sidewalks, pedestrian crossings, one-ways and more, the drivers don't abuse their cars.
I think you'll see a big move out of Crown Vics, for taxi service, over the next couple of years, unless oil prices keep declining. Even then, though, knowing how volatile oil prices are, and how quickly prices can shoot up, cab companies will factor the possibility of another price rise into their next vehicle purchase. In addition to Priuses, I've also seen some Ford Escape taxis.
In California, the traction battery is warrantied to 150,000 miles.
Apparently, battery failure is simply a non-issue. Sounds like, unless you are very unlucky, that your Prius's battery will be sold again through the wrecking yard that takes your worn out Prius.
It would be interesting to do a long term comparison between the Prius and, say, the VW Rabbit or Jetta diesel for taxi use.
Of course, for many participants in Edmunds forums, fun-to-drive is an important ownership consideration, and taxis don't address that issue. Maybe the 2011 Honda CR-Z, which I believe is scheduled to be introduced in 2010, will be a game changer for enthusiasts. For all of the Prius' attributes, I've never heard that these cars are fun to drive. They're probably good transportation modules for certain uses, but that doesn't fully satisfy my needs. Compact and mid-size diesel hatchbacks, sedans and wagons can be reasonably fun to drive. For those willing to spend more, the BMW and Acura TSX diesels will soon be available,
Also the Prius is rather comfy for passengers and it's great for marketing purposes to promote a taxi business. It's gonna be tricky to get away with the slogan "breath easy in a diesel".
The reason we have mostly American taxi cabs is about the running costs. Parts are cheap and you can beat the hell out of them and throw them away, since you got a lot of passenger room for your money and zero resale value anyway. So you might as well buy 'em cheap, destroy them and start over.
The best taxis are cheap to run and/or cheap to buy. It's hard to have both---Prius are cheap to run but not cheap to buy. I'm sure a fleet price on a Chevy is way better.
I've done that in my Prius ( just under 3 yrs & 92,000 mi ) but 'only' for 7-8 hours!! :surprise: Actually in this case what happens is that the gasoline engine cycles on for 45 sec or so to boost the traction battery then the ICE shuts down. On - Off - On - Off - etc, etc, etc, etc At that rate of running for 45 sec every 3-5 min it would take an awfully long time to run the tank empty. I'm guessing weeks. At that time the ICE would stall out and the system would shut down.
The 12v battery serves very little purpose in a Prius. It only sends a signal to the engine to begin to power up and it keeps the 'clock ticking' when the vehicle is off. It's about half the size of a normal 12v battery. It can be run down like any other 12v if a light is left on inside but that's about the only way it can go dead.
As railrodjames has noted the Prius is ultra reliable and durable. It is in fact the No 1 most reliable family vehicle in both CR and JD Power's rankings. I've been hit twice, once on the rear door by the battery, with no difference in driving dynamics at all. Other than these accidents the hybrids actually have LESS maintenance than a similar ICE-only vehcle!!! Huh? LESS you say?
Yes, the hybrid systems need no maintenance EVER at anytime during their lives.
The ICE needs oil and filters every 5K or 6 mo's like any other ICE vehicle.
The ICE needs an air filter @ 30K mi, Many other vehicles recommend 15K intervals.
The ICE has a timing chain which never needs service. The same as the Corolla/Camry for example
The PSD needs a coolant drain/replace at 100,000 mi intervals.
The ICE has 120,000 mi spark plugs. The same as the Corolla/Camry for example.
The EPS never needs maintenance. The same as the Corolla/Camry for example.
The 12v battery were it to fail is about half the size of a normal ICE 12v battery.
The OEM tires are Goodyear run-of-the-mill Integritys which should last 40,000 mi. My OEMs went to exactly 50,000 mi.
Oh...hybrid drivers are finding that their original brakes are lasting well over 100,000 miles and even up to 200,000 - 250,000 without replacement. I'm about half way there. A friend who also posts here just turned 215,000 miles on his '04. He did replace a water pump and serpentine belt at about 150K-160K mi. but he's still on his original brakes.
If it is just a small 12 volt battery why does it cost $300 to replace? At least two Prius owners have quoted that price from Toyota.
new battery type
the invention
Sheez, now why didn't I think of that!!
It's clear to me, with all the maintenance costs of this car over the years, that the gas savings has been eaten up. Now that the IMA battery is dead, I am told by the dealer it's $3,000 to repair--the car isn't worth any more money spent, but without the battery, it also isn't worth much as a trade in.
I'm interested in knowing if the IMA system can be disengaged and the car still operate.
(It seems there is no indication how to post a new thread on this forum--I'm new here; how is it done?)
Out of warranty:
Any repair performed after warranty expiration may be eligible for goodwill consideration by the District Parts and Service Manager or your Zone Office. You must request consideration, and get a decision, before starting work.
I had already made the decision not to buy another Honda Hybrid--just wasn't worth the investment at all, and the company should be made to pay for the many problems the first model has had. I had three catalytics installed--they were all free under warranty, but still: three! With the apparent track record of the model, Honda should be forced to make all first major repairs for free, regardless of warranty; or if it was a smart company, it would do that on its own, to rebuild whatever good will it might have had with buyers.
While I'm on the subject of repair costs, why does the a/c compressor cost $1,200 to replace? I can a/c my complete home for that kind of money. Is there something special about the Honda a/c system that makes it such an expense?
So getting rid of the contaminants in the system might require at least flushing lines and condenser after removing them, and often requires a new dryer, expansion valve, etc. Then there's the "trapping" and evacuation of old freon, adding new freon, testing, lubricating, blah blah.
This is why you see so many used cars for sale with "AC needs a recharge". Of course what that really means is that the seller found out how much it really costs to fix the AC and didn't bother to do it.
Not near as many failing as in the 2002-2005 CR-V, which has been an epidemic...
And Gary thought this would NEVER happen
The big cost difference from traditional cars is a high-voltage battery, which is supposed to last for 100,000 miles but costs anywhere from $3,000 to $10,000 when it dies.
That still does not address the biggest cost. Parts are still OEM and expensive compared to 3rd party vendor parts available for most traditional cars.
Now only if one were to fail we'd see what the real situation was ( sitting here playing Maytag man waiting for the first failure to occur ).
But there are some issues with the current gen prius, but once you got it all up and stable its good to go.
Can you provide an official source for this statement?
One suggestion since gas mileage is very important to you. Get a small notebook to keep in your glove compartment to track your gas mileage. It's very simple and will only add 20 seconds to each fill-up. make 5 columns. "Date" in the 1st column, "odometer reading" in 2nd, "Miles" in 3rd (this is the miles traveled since last fill-up; basically the current odometer reading minus the last odometer reading), "gallons" in the 4th and "MPG" in the last column. This will help you keep track of your gas mileage. Also as you put on more miles, it's a good way to check for problems in your car as well as maintenance.
i've done this with my last 4 cars. I know exactly how much gas I am using. I can also tell how cold weather affects my gas mileage. the onboard computer is normally accurate enough but this way you have the exact gas mileage.
I keep track of everything. My records have records,LOL :shades:
Every tank except the last 4 or 5 has been entered on the GH database. The lifetime fuel economy is 47.9 mpg. This is the 'real' number, Tot Miles Driven / Tot Gal Pumped.
So what has this cost me in Maintenance? Don't be shocked by some of the following..
All services done at or near the 5000 mi scheduled interval:
Oil and filters .................... $ZERO ! (All vehicles get O/F Free for Life)
4 new tires @ 50000 mi ....................... $275
2 replacement tires for road hazards ..... $180
16 tire rotations ................................... $320
3 rotate and balance............................. $90
2 sets of wipers..................................... $5
... Subtotal: Rubber .......................... $870
2 engine flushes ( my choice ).............. $150
1 rear replacement bulb............................... 10 cents
1 lower grill facia replacement................. $30
2 air filters............................................. $30
3 cabin air filters.................................... $90
3 minor accidents
broken rims, deer, other driver................ $750 deductibles.
The next service at 103,000 miles will be the first 'major' service where all the normal service is done plus the engine/inverter coolant drain/replace.
Excluding the 3 deductibles the total costs for maintenance has been about $1150 almost all of which is for rubber. The Oil/Filters Free for Life is unusual certainly except in this area. It's a significant piece of change since I get 7 or 8 free services every year.
Our '06 HH has been everywhere from Oregon to southern CA, from desert rocky roads near or below sea level to high mountain icy patches around 7000-ft. It tows our working trailer when working on our ranch and farm, it takes my children and their friends to activities when serving as a "van". It has 45,000 miles on it, with 92% of brake pads intact, has NOT ONE single problem that requires a shop-stay. On average, total lifetime mileage is 26+ MPG.
So, where is the flop?
May be we need to separate our individual concern from generalization? It makes sense to worry about the batteries. It makes sense to compare cost and decide if hybrid price is worth one's desire for Mercedes luxuries. What does any of that have to do with "flops"?
I eagerly await your facts and information!
I guess we do not share the same perspective of large. I don't consider the HH or FEH large SUVs. The GM hybrids are the ones I was referring to. For me the 4 runner is bare minimum size. Though Toyota made huge claims of bringing hybrids in every size. I have not heard any complaints on the HH other than high priced. That and its sister RX400h is not recommended for off road at all.
If I go smaller than the Sequoia it will probably be the X5 diesel. It should have no problem getting 30 MPG on the highway.
Raised pressure to 40psi, no change.
I didn't see the value in hydroedge as I live in the desert it rains 4 days a year.
ANy input on mpg and tires?