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G8 Problems
I have had my G8 (V6) loaded, for just over 1 month and about 1000 miles. It is currently in the shop for the second time for vibrations and brake pulsations. The first time they put a set of new front tires on to fix the vibration. That didn't work. I just got off the phone with the dealership. The said they cut my brake rotors down to fix the brake pulsations.
QUESTION - is cutting the rotors on a 1 month old, 1000 mile car the right way to fix this issue. Is it me or should I expect them to replace the rotors? The dealership told me GM will not cover replacing the rotors... Is this the truth??
If anyone can shine any light on this I would greatly appreciate it.
QUESTION - is cutting the rotors on a 1 month old, 1000 mile car the right way to fix this issue. Is it me or should I expect them to replace the rotors? The dealership told me GM will not cover replacing the rotors... Is this the truth??
If anyone can shine any light on this I would greatly appreciate it.
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It has constatant light to medium vibration most noticible at around 68 mph. Sometimes you can see the the steering wheel buzzing and you can feel the vibration strongly thru the shift nob.
I took the car to my dealer at about 1400 miles, they road force balanced the tires and then put 2 new front tires on the car. This did not help much in my opinion.
I took the car back to the dealer at about 1800 miles. They road force balanced the tires again and indexed the drive shaft. This did not help significantly.
I then made arrangements to test drive my car with the service manager. After driving with me, the service manager agreed my car has a noticible vibration. We then drove a different new G8 off the lot that had the same equipment as mine. Guess what? THIS G8 VIBRATED AT LEAST AS BADLY AS MINE! The service manager then promised to call Detroit to find out what else he could do.
Two days later the service manager called back. He had talked to "Detroit" The answer was there was nothing else he could do. G8's JUST VIBRATE!
Next I plan to call GM directly... Lets see if this works any better.
Try putting the car in manual mode. This will disable AFM (DOD). You may be sensing the vibration of the effective 3.0 L 4-cylinder engine. After I installed a Magnaflow cat-back system and before I disabled AFM, my rearview mirror would vibrate enough to blur the view.
Pontiac and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration have announced the recall of 35,038 G8 sedans for two separate issues. General Motors announced earlier this year that the Pontiac brand would be killed by 2010, with the G8 set to ride off into the sunset by the end of the year.
According to the NHTSA’s Web site, the Pontiac G8 is being recalled for a brake light issue and a potential problem with the vehicle’s tire pressure monitoring system. The recalls cover all G8s from the 2008 and 2009 model years.
Some G8 vehicles may have been equipped with an incorrectly programmed brake pedal position switch from the factory. The defect can lead to the continual illumination of the car’s brake lights, giving other drivers on the road little warning when the vehicle is coming to a stop. Due to the increased risk of crash, Pontiac dealers will begin fixing the problem June 5th.
The G8’s second recall involves the vehicle’s tire pressure monitoring system. Some vehicles were equipped with the wrong programming, which could give false tire pressure readings. As a result, the system may not warn the driver when tire pressures fall below safe levels, potentially leading to deteriorated handling or even a crash.
I have had the vibration problem too. They replaced one of my tires. It helped. Sometimes the steering wheel has a vibration to it and sometimes not. IIt is different then the slight vibration you feel in the car when it goes into 43 cylinder mode. I have 2800 miles on ours.
Anyone else have this problem or recommended solutions?
they will tell you what you want to hear to get your money - once you have the car - you will be on your own.
It may be a software issue. I know that sounds funny but many of the controls on the new cars are not governed by the typical timer or PCB anymore. My hope for you is that there is a TSB that applies, and that it is a programming issue.
Good luck.
The part was probably damaged during factory installation and just worked loose over the short driving time.
Love the car. Simple to fix took a while to diagnose and get the parts into the dealer.
BTW, if rotors pulsate on an almost brand new car, they should be replaced. It means that they are cheap rotors and they are getting warped. If you turn cheap rotors like that , you remove more metal and make rotors more susceptible to warpage.
I've had a couple new cars that sat on the lot a long time. It took about 1500 miles before the brakes completely stopped pulsating. I suspect an uneven rust pattern on the rotors. These cars spent some time at sea and parked at a port, so salt air might be the culprit.
I've driven four G8 GTs to date and only one has had a brake issue...the one I took delivery of. Lucky me, huh?
Perhaps I'll be proven wrong, but I think I'm going to be a very happy owner. If, after the dealer has had the chance to fix my issues, I'm not satisfied, I'll definitely report back. I'm very "picky" but have been happy with my last two GM cars.
The problem is that during some stops or slow-downs (bringing the car to 1st gear), the transmission seems to delay for a split second, causing an abrupt start or jerk. When this behavior is displayed in 1st gear, the shift from 2nd to 3rd seems to also be rough (slow shift followed by abrupt surge).
I've talked to my bro-in-law who owns a transmission shop and he agrees that it probably isn't mechanical. He says it's more likely a firmware glitch that can be easily fixed by flashing (very common, he says).
This is a minor nuisance, the type of issue many would not really recognize as an issue but I figured I'd ask and see if anyone else has had any experience with the problem.
Thanks!
I love the car though.
It sounds like you're experiencing the same thing. The rough 2-3 shift is almost always when the car is cold or after it has sat and cooled for a while. I'm trying to isolate both as much as possible because I know these are going to be "can not duplicate" issues unless I get "lucky." If I find the trick to making the G8 misbehave, I'll share with the group and maybe y'all can try it on yours.
Here's another observation (definitely not a problem). I've noticed that occasionally the car seems to drag as if it were a manual transmission left in gear while other times, it coasts more like what I'm used to with other automatics. Does anyone have any info on this? I haven't played with the manual shifting yet (still in break-in) but I'm thinking this is a computer programming "issue" if anything. However, when the car seems to be coasting more freely, that seems to be when I get the "slip" I'm noticing. Otherwise, it's almost like I'm power-braking as I slow to a stop and even while stopped. I've even noticed (occasionally) when I have that feeling of power-braking at a stop, if I slip the trans into neutral, the car will still lurch forward (slightly) when I release the brake. It's as if the trans has stored energy/pressure that isn't released until it moves.
Sorry for the rambling. As stated before, I haven't been able to lock down the particular conditions that are causing this inconsistency with my G8. But, I do appreciate your input. It will help me figure this out eventually.
Have a great day,
Ron
Check out the transmission section in the owners manual. It references the engine braking you are writing about. My car seems to coast more in auto mode, and engine brakes more in sport mode. The manual says it's to help slow the car and keep the brakes cooler.
Hope this helps.
Normally, you should push down and it should be a consistent line of power up the band with no falling power gaps in that band. Also, a good engine, coupled with a good transmission, you really should feel the transmission shifting, and is also coupled with the smooth, solid power band. My 06 Accord had a nice line of power, no falling gaps. It was also more predictable. Its as if the adaptive programing is too sensitive.
I have taken it several time to the dealer. No duplicate issue!
Now, I think this might be an issue in general with GM, as I have seen other GM forums with similar issues.
How you are you so sure that its not mechanical? The programmer controls when it shifts, but not really how well it shifts, meaning how it feels physically. ??
I have just learned to live with it. I know its not normal. I guess, I will wait for it to become more consistent, If it does at all? It does not happen all the time, but enough for me to know its happening.
For all the above issues, I hate the engine! It makes it feel like it has many more miles on it than it does.
I have made Pontiac aware of it, my dealer, and yet they are not real motivated. I am just tired of leaving my car there and get no duplicate.
They'll honor the warranty, which is about $1,500 in bills already.
Most of the time, my transmission is shifting normally. The issue I'm having is sporadic. The hard shift from 2nd to 3rd seems to only happen when the transmission has cooled. On the way to work this morning, it happened during every 2-3 shift but if it continues as it has in the past, it may only do it a couple times when I drive it at lunch and on the way home. I didn't drive the car at all yesterday so it had about 36 hrs of down time. Throughout last week, I was driving it multiple times each day and only noticed it during the first drive each of those days.
As for the slip, it seems to be subsiding and I may not have even noticed it if it were at this point when I first started driving the car. However, now that I have a heightened awareness of it, I notice even the slightest irregularity.
Regarding my theory that this isn't mechanical, I'm working from the idea that if it were mechanical, it would be evident all the time e.g., if a gear was damaged, every time that gear was in use, the same noise/vibration/etc. would be evident. In the case of my car, sometimes it's perfectly normal and others, a little off. On that subject, I will be paying attention to the rear end/U-joint. I hear some clunks occasionally back there and won't let that go.
With your issues, I would ask a technician to drive along with you and point out your problem to them as it occurs. Keep in mind that they are looking for obvious problems when you drop the car off and you are much more attuned to your vehicle so what seems blatantly obvious to you may be almost unperceivable to them. I can tell you that I had trouble getting most of my friends to notice the suspension problems with my last car. A couple more "car-conscious" guys knew exactly what I was talking about but even the "suspension specialist" at the dealership was unable to notice the problem. No doubt it's frustrating but try not to get too much into the thought that they are intentionally ignoring your problem. My advice would be to find ways to recreate the problem so that they are sure to notice it (a particular stretch of road, certain engine RPM or vehicle speeds, etc.). One last thing, are you talking about problems that occur when it runs in 4-cylinder mode? Or, did you mean that your car has the 3.6L 6-cylinder engine? The G8 has never had a 4-cylinder engine.
One last thing, don't expect your rear-wheel-drive Pontiac to drive like a front-wheel-drive Honda. There are so many differences between the two that would always be evident...even if Honda built your G8. Different isn't always bad...sometimes it's just different. In my case, my Impala's engine seemed to idle smoother than the G8's. The transverse engine configuration of my FWD Impala made even the little misses in its idle much less pronounced. So, the G8 suffers from a rougher idle but it's nothing that warrants getting upset.
Some folks drive themselves crazy over the little things if there car has any problems. It's mostly a perception thing...once you decide your car is of poor quality, ANYTHING becomes just one more thing that was designed/assembled/etc poorly. I've seen folks overlook big problems on a car they love and then ridicule someone else or their car because it was an "unfavorable" brand.
My G8 isn't perfect but I love it. That may change over time but I don't see any indications of it.
Have a great day and good luck with yours!
Ron
Here's the link: http://www.whiteautoandmedia.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=fly- page.tpl&product_id=48&category_id=18&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=54&vmcchk=1&I- temid=54
If anyone has any experience with this or something similar, please share.
Thanks!
I want to trade it and be done with it!! However I cannot get a straight answer on realistically upside down I am.
I was stuck in stop in go traffic yesterday and I noticed my car's transmission issue is occurring when I am able to move far/fast enough for the car to shift into 2nd gear or higher. At that point, when I came to a stop, the car was pushing very hard against the brake; when I released the brake, it would take off at approximately double the normal rate/power. If I then shifted to neutral and back into drive, the car would then act more "normal" and only creep forward when I released the brake. I repeated this several times so I don't believe it's a fluke and, hopefully, can repeat it for the service techs...or better yet find that it is a known issue and has already been corrected. It definitely seems like a programming issue or possibly a problem with some component that is sticking once the car has accelerated.
I'll post an update if I can find anything. Anyone else heard of anything like this? I'm going to tap some of the other G8 forums as well. :sick:
I found a TSB that addresses a rough 2-3 shift:
TSB PIP-4395
GMC: FLARE AND OR HARSH 2-3 SHIFTS. THIS CONDITION MAY BE CAUSED BY LEAKING 1-2-3-4 AND 3-5-R CLUTCH FLUID SEAL RINGS (230). MODELS CADILLACS, CHEVROLETS, GMC, HUMMERS, PONTIACS. EQUIPPED WITH 6L80 (RPO MYC) OR 6L90 (RPO MYD) AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION. *PE
If you want to read more about it, run a Google search on the TSB and if you think it applies to you, take a copy to your dealer/service and have them check it out. I plan to.
Seems that a keyword to emphasize here when describing
the issue to dealer service people is:
'flare'....
Good luck!
- Ray
Now at approx. 11,000 [s]miles...
winning an arbitrary with GM with an 07 Saturn aura XR. One of my main reasons
for purchasing the g8 was the interior room and it was a completely different platform from the vehicle I was getting out of. Needless to say this gm producthas not been manufactured any better. Since purchasing this vehicle I have had 3 instances when there has been no throttle response when trying to accelerate. On the most recent incident while trying to merge on a major highway the check engine light came on 30 minutes after this episode. I drove it directly to the dealership where it had fault codes 11 and 21. These codes indicate there isexcessive movement in both banks of camshafts. My vehicle is now sitting at the dealership with the engine apart. Shims were installed on the right bank of cams and the left side they had to order a cylinderhead. Keeping mind this vehicle is 3 months old and 10000 km. After this I don't want anything to do with this car or any other gm product for that matter. I'm soooo pissed!
Sorry for your troubles.
I followed 2 Corvette specific boards for over 3 years,
before & during my Corvette ownership -
and now follow a G8 specific board -
and I have never heard of a problem like yours
in an LS2.
Odd.
Good luck!
- Ray
Many trouble-free LS2 miles...
Oops.
- Ray
No help at ALL here....
get the v8 but there was none to be found in my part
of Canada. As a matter of fact, I had to go out of
province to get this car.
I find the name-calling offensive.
As a G8 GT driver, I can make these
[ potentially useful ]
comments:
Though cylinder de-activation can occur at 20-30 MPH, I find that the effect of AFM \ DoD is typically most noticeable at steady speeds between 55 and 65.
You can monitor the de-activation by driving at the same speeds \ throttle openings in Engineering Mode.
And you can verify [ or eliminate ] AFM as a possibility, by driving under the same conditions in Sport \ Manual – as AFM does NOT activate in that mode.
Good luck.
- Ray
2009 @ 14,900+ miles . . .
"Any suggestions would be appreciated, before I go to war with the dealer."
The dealers have enough problems without owners going in and starting a "war with the dealer." over vibration inherent in the design. In order to make a V8 get the gas mileage of a six during light throttle, the ECM cuts fuel to every other cylinder. The dead rotating mass is GOING to vibrate more than if all eight cylinders are firing consecutively.
My GT does it and the other two I test drove do it too. Why complain when you are getting the power of the V8 with great mileage for an engine this powerful?
Don't complain that the dog sings out of key, but be thankful that he can sing at all.
Pontiac calls it a "characteristic of the performance suspension"? That is a quote directly from General Motors Customer Service and the District Service Manager for GM in North Florida.
That quote is [ um ] incorrect.
- Ray
2009 G8 GT w/Sport Pkg suspension - with no such "characteristic" vibration.....
Mine also came with defective rotors. Not surprising since I owned a couple of the last Oldsmobiles and they had garbage rotors as well; I bet GM has been nickel and diming its brake parts suppliers for years and they in turn sacrifice quality.
Anyway, I had my one month old and 1,000 mile car also have its rotors turned and it fixed the issue. On my Olds, they just replaced them free of charge, 3X times. But the vibrations were worse then, on the G8 it was more mild. I think they see how much material is there and how bad the warpage is and calculate turning the rotors vs. replacing them and they will not replace them if they can get away with it. It would not surprise me if GM would not reimburse under warranty if the rotors were salvageable.
I reduced the tire pressures to 40 - 43 cold. This helped a little with the vibrations and after driving it a few weeks, the flat spots went away.
The low profile sidewalls at higher pressures are going to make every rough surface felt.
HTH:
#09-03-08-008: Knock Clunk Or Click Noise From Front Suspension Over Small Bumps
Anyone post this yet?
#09-03-08-008: Knock Clunk Or Click Noise From Front Suspension Over Small Bumps (Replace Front Lower Control And Caster Arms) - (Oct 5, 2009)
Subject: Knock, Clunk or Click Noise from Front Suspension Over Small Bumps (Replace Front Lower Control and Caster Arms)
Models: 2008-2009 Pontiac G8
Attention: This bulletin is intended to correct a condition for front end knock, clunk or clicking. Vehicles previously repaired as part of Campaign #09203A are to follow a different repair procedure as outlined under the Correction section below.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Condition
Some customers may comment on a clunk, knock or click noise from the front suspension over small bumps.
Cause
The rubber "boot" over the front end lower control arm ball joint may have become dislodged or torn compromising the seal. Moisture inside the ball joint seal may cause corrosion, shortening the service life of the component.
Correction
Notice: Before replacing any components under the terms of this bulletin, you must confirm the past service history of the vehicle. Please use GMVIS to confirm if the vehicle was previously repaired under Customer Satisfaction Campaign #09203A. If the vehicle was repaired under this service action, ONLY replace the front control arm found to be the source of the noise and claim the applicable Labor Operation for that part as outlined in SI and the labor time guide.
Vehicles not identified in Customer Satisfaction Campaign #09203A (or not repaired during its duration) and found to have one or more of the rubber boots improperly sealing should have all four front control arms replaced.
Front Lower Control and Caster Arm Replacement (Both Sides)
The instructions below detail replacement of all four front lower control and caster arms.
Danger: To avoid any vehicle damage, serious personal injury or death when major components are removed from the vehicle and the vehicle is supported by a hoist, support the vehicle with jack stands at the opposite end from which the components are being removed and strap the vehicle to the hoist.
•Raise and support the vehicle. Refer to Lifting and Jacking the Vehicle in SI.
•Remove the front wheels. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation in SI.
•Loosen the control arm to steering knuckle retaining nut (1) about two turns.
•Using the J-42188-B Ball Joint Separator (1), disconnect the control arm (2) from the steering knuckle (3).
•Remove the control arm to steering knuckle retaining nut (1).
•Separate the control arm (2) from the steering knuckle (3).
•Remove the control arm to subframe retaining bolt.
•Remove and discard the front control arm (3) from the subframe (2).
•Install the NEW front control arm (3) to the subframe (2).
Warning: The existing control arm bolts and nuts may be reused for this procedure. You MUST remove all traces of the original adhesive patch on the bolt. Clean the threads of the bolt with denatured alcohol, GM Low VOC Brake Cleaner GM P/N 12378392 or equivalent, and allow to dry. Before Installation, apply threadlocker GM P/N 12345493 (in Canada, use 10953488) or blue, medium LOCTITE™ 242.
Note: The NEW front control arm to subframe retaining bolt (1) must not be fully tightened at this stage.
•Install the NEW front control arm to subframe retaining bolt (1).
•Install the NEW control to the steering knuckle.
•Install the NEW front control arm (1) to steering knuckle retaining nut (2).
Important: Use the J 45059 Torque / Angle Tool when tightening the following:
Tighten
• First Pass: Tighten the nut to 40 N·m (30 lb ft).
• Final Pass: Tighten the nut an additional 60 degrees.
•Loosen the caster arm to steering knuckle retaining nut (1) about two turns.
•Using the J-42188-B Ball Joint Separator (3), disconnect the caster arm (1) from the steering knuckle (2).
•Remove the caster arm to steering knuckle retaining nut (3). Mark keyway slot on the bushing relative to the cradle.
•Separate the caster arm (1) from the steering knuckle (2).
•Remove the caster arm to subframe retaining bolt.
•Remove and discard the caster arm from the subframe .
•Install the NEW caster arm to the subframe. Line up the keyway slot on the bushing to previous mark on the cradle.
•Install the front caster arm to the subframe retaining bolt.
•Install the new front caster arm to the steering knuckle.
Note: The caster arm to subframe retaining bolt is not to be fully tightened at this stage.
•Install the NEW caster arm (1) to the steering knuckle (2) retaining nut.
Important: Use the J 45059 Torque / Angle Tool when tightening the following
Tighten
• First Pass: Tighten the nut to 50 N·m (37 lb ft).
• Final Pass: Tighten the nut an additional 60 degrees.
•Repeat Steps 3-20 for the other side of the vehicle then continue below.
•Install the front wheels. Refer to Tire and Wheel Removal and Installation in SI.
•Lower the vehicle.
•Bounce the vehicle several times to settle the suspension.
•Check and adjust the wheel alignment. Refer to Front End Alignment in SI.
•Tighten the NEW control arm to subframe retaining bolt.
Important: Use the J 45059 Torque / Angle Tool when tightening the following:
Tighten
• First Pass: Tighten the bolts to 40 N·m (30 lb ft).
• Final Pass: Tighten the bolts an additional 120 degrees.
•Tighten the NEW caster arm to subframe retaining bolt.
Important: Use the J 45059 Torque / Angle Tool when tightening the following:
Tighten
• First Pass: Tighten the bolts to 40 N·m (30 lb ft).
• Final Pass: Tighten the bolts an additional 120 degrees.
Parts Information
Part Number
Description
Qty
92244046
Arm Asm -- Frt Lwr Control Frt Right
1
92244047
Arm Asm -- Frt Lwr Control Frt Left
1
92244050
Arm Asm -- Frt Lwr Control (Caster) Right
1
92244051
Arm Asm -- Frt Lwr Control (Caster) Left
1
Warranty Information
For vehicles repaired under warranty, use:
Labor Operation
Description
Labor Time
E9505*
Replace Front Lower Control & Caster Arms (Both Sides) - Perform Wheel Alignment
2.6 hrs
*This is a unique labor operation for bulletin use only. It will not be published in the Labor Time Guide.
Note: If the vehicle was previously repaired under Campaign 09203A, ONLY replace the front control arm found to be the source of the noise and claim the applicable Labor Operation for that part as outlined in SI and the Labor Time Guide.
GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer".