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Toyota Venza Traction control light coming on?
This is happening to me when the car is left with the Ebrake on for a period of time, then I go to put into reverse (after letting off ebrake with foot on brake pedal) and the TCS light comes on and the car doesn't move for a few seconds. The manual says it may come on when on a hill, but while in Drive. Its coming on in Reverse with mine. Only happened 2x so far, I'm going to try to get a better idea of when and how often.
Anyone else see theirs come on from time to time?
Anyone else see theirs come on from time to time?
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Apparently, if the driver is REALLY mashing on the brake pedal, then the assumption is made you are on a hill. The hill assist will come on and hold the auto in a braked position until you press on the accelerator. Once you press on the accelerator, it will give you a warning (beep and flashing icon) to let you know it is about to release the brake for you. You can see how this would be helpful on a hill, if you know it's there and how it works.
Make sure you pump the brake pedal at least once after releasing the brake pedal, and don't mash down hard. Then the hill assist should not kick in.
I don't know if I would completely buy into the hill assist story. If it was, it still is a design fraud. I think most of us know how to drive a car in a normal way.
I am frustrated by the fact that the VSC problem was not easily reproducible at the shop and I have been told again and again that I am THE only one having the problem. And Toyota will not authorize any repairwork.
I am bring the car back to the shop Again this week and am afraid will be told the same.
This is my 3th Toyota. I am sorry to have bought the Venza. I would caution any interested buyer to wait. Not just because of the problem many Venza owners experiencing, but the aftersale treatment from Toyota.
The gear lock-up really should be looked at as a serious safety issue. I was not that nervous the first two episodes, But the third time really scared me out when I was stucked in the middle of the road, perpendicular to traffics. I can't move the Venza.
I know that there are enough Venza owners reported the same VSC/lock up issues, that Toyota should come out and get in front of the problems.
I just don't buy the so called Hill assist explanation(is that officially from Toyota?). The Tech told me that he never heard about it.
I have been drving for more than twenty years, I am sure that your wife knew how to drive NORMALLY or how to put the brake on.
Why would any potential car buyer take a chance on the Venza until Toyota solve this problem?
Read your manual. The Venza is equipped with a Hill Start Assist feature that will activate the Traction Control Light when engaged. It is mentioned in the manual on page 226.
What Toyota failed to document is how it's engaged. Pushing hard on the brake when you're stopped activates it, whether you're in reverse or in drive.
I use it every day to exit my office building's parking garage. Our card swipe is on a steep incline. After the gate opens, I mash the brake until the TC light comes on and I hear a beep. At that point, I'm able to move my foot off the brake and to the gas without worrying about rolling backwards. As I push on the gas pedal, the Venza moves forward, the light goes off, and all is well.
Have all of you who are doubting that this is what's happening tried engaging the Hill Assist to see if it mirrors your experience? I just tried it in my driveway and was able to engage it after shifting into reverse and pushing hard on the brake.
At least rule it out first by trying it before continuing to throw out accusations that you may need to take back later.
When the Venza is on the flatter part of my driveway, it still kicks in while in reverse and mashing the brake. Mashing the brake pedal while in drive doesn't engage it. So far, in my normal day-to-day driving, I haven't accidentally turned on Hill Assist while reversing out of my driveway.
So, thinking about it further, either Toyota needs to update the owner's manual so that people know what to expect (i.e. Hill Start will kick in while in reverse on an incline) or the Hill Start logic needs to match what's in the manual, which is that it only kicks on while in Drive (or "S") on an incline.
consider your self lucky that you could reproduce the problem and found a way to avoid them. But many of us have the VSC difficulties that are not predictable and post safety concerns. The Venza locked up regardless whether or not the brake is mashed. The root of the problems might be similar to yours, but the severity is quite different.
Any design, Hill Assist or other, should make driving easier and safer. What ever design that is related to the Venza problems is doing just the opposit. And I might say, it should be relatively easy to correct by Toyota. And Toyota should correct it.
After a half dozen trips to the dealer we found a way to re-produce it at will.
When starting the car, or going from P to D or R, place a little excess pressure on the brake peddle. This is what is triguring the VSC. Once we discovered the sales manager and myself tried 3 or 4 new Venzas on the lot and could reproduce the problem on all the vehicles. Not only do I consider this dangerous, it gets even worse. As folks have reported, once the VCS clears it will jump into gear. Does not matter if your foot is on the break or not. This is a very poor design and concerns me greatly. If you have anyone drive the car who is not familiar with this issue it could lead to accidents, injuries etc. I am extremely dissapointed being a huge Toyota fan. I am currently in disscussion with Toyota about this since there is nothing the dealer can do.
Hey bkby, what do you mean by "jump" into gear? Does your vehicle lurch forward (or backwards) at an unexpected high velocity? If so, then that's a real problem and needs immediate attention. But if the vehicle simply engages gear at idle speed, that's what it is supposed to do since the engine is running and the gear shift is in Drive or Reverse. I too was confused by the hill-assist feature until I became familiar with it - now it's no big deal. But get yours checked out if there is a case of unintended acceleration associated with it.
MD
I'm stymied as to why people see it as being so dangerous. It does not require 10 seconds to disengage if you simply lift your foot and tap the brake again.
I agree, it's poor communication on Toyota's part and every service dealer should be able to explain to people how, and why, it would occur.
Kim
What would be the NATURAL reaction of a driver applying gas pedal pressure and the engine not responding...??
Right..!!
Inform that same driver as to why "this" happens and the natural instincts get retrained. As in....
Remember what the natural reaction was when an unknowing driver first felt, was surprised, at that vibratory effect at the brake pedal when ABS activated...?
Stop doing whatever you just did, SOMETHING is WRONG...!!
"... you simply lift your foot and tap the brake again..."
Same procedure I had to learn for my '01 F/awd RX300. When trying to accelerate while entering a tight turn starting up from from a dead stop the RX would almost INSTANTLY dethrottle the engine. Pre-emptive VSC function (prevention of loss of traction for a FWD or F/awd vehicle), anti-rollover..??
Yet another reason for requiring that the dealers have, make available as a pre-purchase requirement, a driving simulation wherein the driver has to experience all of these features, and know how to react to, of a newly purchased vehicle
How much experience do you have driving a Venza? If you are stepping on the gas pedal and nothing is happening, then you have some other problem. The hill-assist doesn't work that way. If you take your foot off the brake and apply pressure to the gas pedal, the engine responds normally. If your Venza is not working that way, then you have a problem - get to the dealer now! I believe the "surprise" that most new Venza owners experience is when the hill-assist kicks in when the vehicle is in park because of an extra firm press on the brake pedal. Then when you shift into gear (Drive or Reverse) there is a slight delay before the gear kicks in (until you step on the gas). It's the delay that is uncomfortable. But as soon as you step on the gas, all returns to normal. And if the hill-assist kicks in while you are already in gear, stepping on the gas immediately defeats it and you drive away normally. At least that's how my Venza has worked for the the first 6000 miles. Is this dangerous? I'd rank it way, way below things like using a cell phone, or texting, or eating, or drinking (from morning coffee mug), or playing with the nav screen, or even adjusting the radio while driving. Would you like dealers to require new car buyers to perform a test drive while doing all those things before they are "allowed" to purchase a vehicle?
MD
Obviously if there is a "programmed" delay, even a slight one, an unknowing driver's reaction will be to depress the gas pedal a bit more....
On the other hand I could fully understand the throttle mapping, throttle plate's response to gas pedal depression, being modified when hill-assist is active. There is NO WAY the driver should be expected/allowed to go from a hill-assist circumstance directly to a WOT, or even nearly, condition.
That might mean that the '"rate" at which you begin that initial gas pedal depression comes into play. The rate of gas pedal lift is currently being used to determine (guess, "best" guess..??) your future intent, coastdown or enter cruise mode. For this latter an upshift might be appropriate.
When the hill-assist is active is the transaxle by some chance shifted into neutral...??
I do know that almost all of Toyota and Lexus newer models use extended fuel cut during coastdown periods. To prevent the engine from stalling, just plain ceasing to turn, during those periods the transaxle is downshifted, sequentually downshifted as speed declines. Then once the engine is again fueled the transaxle will initiate and upshift. That 10-0 MPH upshift often gives the driver a feeling of slight braking release, or being "bumped" slightly from behind.
Now we also know that most of these vehicle DO NOT downshift into 1st gear until the vehicle has come to a full and complete STOP. Could it be, therefore, that if hill-assist is engaged, inadvertently or intentionally, the transaxle does not make that final downshift into 1st gear until hill-assist releases the brakes.
In that case there would be no question of the throttle servo being made open-loop until the downshift into first were completed, as much as a 1-2 second delay in engine torque rise in response to the initial depression of the gas pedal which signals to release hill-assist.
If it were YOUR foot on the brake, lets say a high level of braking due to the hill slope, how long would it take for your foot to move from the brake pedal to the gas pedal...??
The DBW, E-throttle control firmware MUST take into account that there might be ZERO time from braking to acceleration if control were left solely to the driver with hill assist on. That, in turn, might often result in a sudden loss of traction, wheelspin, in going from, directly from, a LOCKED drive wheel to acceleration.
How many of us, at one time or another, haven't used our left foot to firmly brake while at the same time using the gas pedal to raise the engine torque for a "spin-out"..? (Me, '67 Mustang)
Going uphill on some of the streets hereabouts and the Venza were to allow "zero-time" between hill-assist deactivation and throttle opening the result might very well be the onset of TC, Traction Control braking, even greater potential in foul weather.
So there is very high likelihood of a hill-assist to acceleration delay, a delay "enforced" by the DBW firmware.
Drivers are reporting a sudden "lurch" forward as they depress the gas pedal with hill-assist activated, sometimes inadvertently activated. Due to the firmware enforcing a delay in throttle response upon "leaving" hill assist mode the driver will often depress the gas pedal more than is appropriate as a result of lack of more immediate throttle response to an initial depression.
WATCH OUT, BOY-RACER COMING YOUR WAY...!!
I would guess that a TSB will soon be on its way to revise the DBW firmware in some manner to prevent this.
In my '01 F/awd RX300 if I try to accelerate, seriously accelerate, into a tight turn from a dead stop the engine drops to idle and then I must fully release the gas pedal just momentarily in order to "reset" the interfering firmware.
VSC..?? TC..??
Obviously my RX300 is HIGHLY prone to loss of control in the circumstance, as would be ANY FWD or F/awd vehicle, FWD with "strong" engines, V6 vs I4, more especially so. Read up on how the new Venza and 2010 RX350 F/awd system works, "dynamically" works. Automatically couples a high level, ~50%, of engine torque to the rear with straight line acceleration, and even as much as 20% in a low speed accelerating turn.
That's right, 20% coupling to the rear in a tight turn wherein tire scrubbing and/or driveline windup will rise substantially. Compromises....
Removing drive torque to the front wheels during tight turns in order to allocate more of teh front tire's traction coefficient to lateral forces.
It is NEVER a good idea to "ask" the front drive wheels to provide enough roadbed traction for a HIGH level of acceleration simultaneously with a requirement for a HIGH level of lateral traction. And now throw in a not insignificant level of torque stear just for the fun of it..
"...We are in control of your TV set..."
No complaints here, VSC/TC activating pre-emptively, dethrottling the engine, to save my butt.
But then ask me how I felt the first few times I found myself "dead in the water" as a result.
Actually from:
Techinfo.toyota.com
Hill-start assist is initially ACTIVATED as the driver RELEASES the brakes from a FULL STOP and if the ABS wheel speed sensors indicate the vehicle begins to roll as brake pressure declines. If the vehicle begins to roll as the driver releases braking then the hill-start assist feature will activate (Beep-beep) and maintain brake pressure until the driver has had time to move from the brake pedal to the gas pedal and begin depressing the gas pedal.
The "alarm", Beep-beep, sounds if the vehicle rolls as the driver begins releasing the brake pedal and hill-start assist initially activates.
Now, wouldn't many or most vehicles begin to roll even on the "flat" as the brakes are released with the transaxle in 1st, torque converter unlocked, and engine at idle. Does by chance that mean that the hill-start assist option will prevent 1st gear operation while stopped and until the gas pedal is subsequently depressed..??
Thanks for your lengthy reply. One thing I missed was your answer to the question "How much experience do you have driving a Venza?" I note that you currently drive a 2001 Lexus RX300, but if your response is not based on actual experience driving a Venza, then perhaps you should state that your responses are your opinions based upon reading what others have written, and not actual driving experience with the vehicle in question. Or perhaps you are a Toyota / Lexus mechanic and your knowledge comes from that experience - a valuable experience for us all to learn from. Thanks again for your reply.
MD
My guess is that only through the use of a driving simulator could an "owner" experience, and thereby learn the proper reaction, within a reasonable timeframe, for all of the myriad of features, described in the various factory documents.
Look at the hill-assist feature, for instance, how many Venza drivers do you think will EVER encounter an activation of this feature. Otherwise book-learning as preparation for the coming "day" is as good as it gets.
My experience with the VSC aspect of my '01 F/awd in 77,000 miles of driving, some of wintertime conditions, mountain pass wintertime conditions, even in MT, has been ONE TIME only. And even then I was not initially aware of why the beep-beep sounded. It was only later once I had time to think and consider the circumstances, tight left turn through a water puddle, that I came to realize the VSC had probably activated.
No, I am simply aware that Toyota is quite reasonably safety conscious, and if such a serious firmware flaw exists then a TSB will soon be forthcoming.
1. I have seen messages regarding the VSC indicator and a delay before going into gear. I noticed this problem a month after I had the car (09 Venza AWD 4 cyl).
After two trips to the dealer we found a way to re-produce it. When starting the car, or going from P to D or R, place a little excess pressure on the brake peddle. This is what is triguring the VSC. Not only do I consider this dangerous, it gets even worse. As folks have reported, once the VCS clears it will jump into gear.
2. Three warning lights appeared simultaneously while driving and stayed on for 20 minutes until I stopped and turned off the engine (sunny day, no rain):
1. Slip indicator light (p.515 - malfunction in the VSC or TRAC system).
2. Brake system warning light (p.513 - malfunction in the break system).
3. ABS warning light (p.515 - malfunction in the ABS or the break assist system).
3. Cruise Control:
a. Pressing Cruise Control “ON” switch wouldn’t maintain the set speed immediately, but would accelerate for awhile (with accelerator pedal off).
b. With Cruise Control “ON”, adjusting the speed, accelerating and decelerating, doesn’t feel right. It’s jumpy, wouldn’t react right away, not comfortable, not safe.
4. Average Economy display shows 15L/km (50% more than 10.5L/km as specified).
I've talked to the dealership. I think they know about the problems with Venza. Still, They are in denial.
I will try to get my money back. I am concidering COMVAP.ca to start.
Penny for your thought...
After waiting for Venza for 2 month i got a lemon, a car full of problems, a junk nobody would want.
We shouldn't have been put into this situation. After reading other messages i find it hard to believe Toyota was not aware about the problems with Venza.
We purchased Toyota Venza for the Toyota name, meaning no problems, not in perceivable future, and definitely not right a way.
I think we all should be getting ready for class action suit.
Penny for your thought..
Sorry to hear you are having problems with your Venza. In my opinion, your best bet is to build a strong relationship with your dealer or find another who will work with you to correct the problems. Document the issues you have and, cooperatively with the dealer, work to find agreeable solutions. Document every time the Venza is in the dealer's shop, how long it is there and what the end result of each visit is. If the problems are not corrected, you should follow your local lemon law procedures to ultimately resolve your problems. There are no grounds for a class action law suit, as this requires an injury common to all members of the class and the number must be significantly large so that it would be impractical to bring them all before the court. If you read through all of the available Venza forums I think you will find that the majority of Venza owners are very happy with their vehicles. For example, connected to this Edmunds forum is a link to owner reviews showing that, on average, 124 owners rate their Venza an overall 9.1 out of 10. If you read through these, you will find a couple of unhappy folks, but not many. So my penny, or two cents, is to develop an amicable relationship with your dealer and work out the issues. Good luck, and let us know how it goes.
MD
My dealer told me that when they called Toyota they were told that this was a known problem caused by some inferior parts used in the transaxle (from an ouside supplier) and it would need to be replaced. No issues getting this done but makes you wonder that if was a `known issue`, how many other people have had this problem.
Any answers i could get would be greatly appreciated.
I still happened again after having it repaired.
I just traded it in and got something else.
Has anyone had this experience?
I just rec'd a letter recalling the brake light switch that i had replaced on my 2009 Venza in August 2011. I already traded my car in for another car but i wanted to inform you on this site that I had that part replaced and my car did the exact same thing it had been doing. All 3 lights came on in the dash and the car stopped in my driveway..I believe the problem is more serious than a brake light switch and when you go to get your car repaired ask them to please check it thoroughly.
I purchased the sensor from AutoParts.com, $124, and fitted it myself, about 30 minutes. Problem solved!
btw, I drove it for months with the warning lights on - no problem!
Thanks