Subaru Impreza Outback Sport & TS

rsholland

the OBS in black looks real sharp. I agree, I'm not fond of the green on the OBS.

Bob

brekke

would look even better without the tutone. Again, blech! And what's up with replacing the rear discs with drums? My other peeve about the OBS. (Complainin' and I don't even own the car yet!)

ramon

the old OBS (1st year OBS?) had rear discs. It would be nice to have rear discs. But to be honest, most of hte braking is done by the front discs anyways. The rears does about 15% of the work. No need to sweat. If you want to improve the stopping power, you're beter off getting good brake pads for the fronts than to waste money to upgrade the drums to discs.
The tutone works well with certain colours. It depends onwhat you want it to look. If you want that outdoorsie look,I say go for green or red or even blue.
Sporty look : silver or black
I'm confused over which colour to get look : white.
IMHO, the silver looked super matched with the lwoer titanium slate tutone. Oh I missed my OBS. =(

celeste2

That's OK, you can come down here and drive mine, and get out of all that nasty snow! BTW Knight Rider isn't even on anymore, is it? Hahaha.
I like your idea of color. If I were to get a BMW I'd get that. Did you see the pics of the car on the i-club, I think they guy is Pinoy? He removed the door handles and the color has the name MICA in it, like a gun metal and awesome!!!

ramon

he stole my colour! =( I think that's the name of the bimmer's colour - blue steel mica.
It's nice. Don't like his wheels though.
Well in the mean time I shall continue with my blue ridge pearl RS. I tired to wash it today after work and after I arrive home, it's all dirty. Grr...
Then my friend had this crazy notion that girls dig dirty cars. It shows that the guy is not too into his car. Sorta reminds me of that Shania Twain song... what was it called again? Oh Yes "Don't Impress Me Much".

brekke

could you or someone explain double clutching and is it necessary in the imprezas. I'm still new with the clutch so I haven't tried heel and toe either.

rsholland

is pretty much a hold over for the good old (bad?) days, when transmissions didn't have syncromesh(sp?). If you didn't double clutch, you would grind gears when shifting. It is a technique still often used on large trucks.

When you double clutch, you shift out of a gear, put it in neutral, let the clutch out then put it back in again, then shift into the next higher gear.

If you're down-shifting, you may also "blip" the throttle while you're in neutral, to—in effect—"syncro" the lower gear with the engine speed, again to avoid gear grinding. Motorcyclists also will often "blip" the throttle when down-shifting to smooth out the gear change.

When I was learning to drive, back in the early '60s, the most common manual tranny was a 3-speed column shift (three-on-the-tree for us oldsters). First gear on these old three speeds was not syncomesh, so, in order to down shift into first—without grinding gears—you did one of two things: let the vehicle come to a complete stop before engaging first gear; or you double-clutched, blipping the throttle, hoping you've matched the engine revs properly to the gear ratio.

Even many 4-speed manuals of that era did not have a synco first gear. Now today, many manuals even have syncro on reverse. That was unheard of until fairly recently.

Today's manual transmissions are so advanced over the old "crash-boxes" of yesteryear, that double clutching is pretty much a waste of time. Lovers of manuals, you have no idea how good you have it today. Besides double-clutching, the shift linkages were about as sloppy as you can get. There was no spring-loaded assistance. The shift throws were long and imprecise. It was really pretty lousy.

Bob

ramon

as rsholland mentioned. i don't see why a need to double clutch with today's cars. Heck I never double clutch back in the old 70s Ford Escort days.
Oh man, I defitnitely agree, today's transmissions are so much better than the days of yore.

vadp

And the Ford Focus manual tranny has so many problems. Also heard people having problems with the new Echo too. Those trannys, the Focus shift feel in particular, tend to deteriorate quite rapidly for a '00 car.
Bugs me why. Looks like the cost reductions measures are gonna hunt the Focus for quite a while.

brekke

for the info. I'm still too chicken to try heel-n-toe.

Caroline

ramon

u don't need heel and toe really in regular street driving. Just do that throttle blip whenever u're downshfting.

- clutch in
- gear out
- blip throttle
- lower gear in.
- clutch out.

gotenks243

I just got a chance to drive a 2002 OBS automatic in green (it isn't bad. What the heck is the problem with the green?). Anyway, it's an amazing improvement over last year. Tons of pep, wonderful steering and handling, the seats are wonderfully comfortable (they're basically the WRX seats with different fabric). If I could, I'd buy it. Great car.

Mike

rsholland

While I was checking out the new OBS, I noticed that there was an outgoing OBS near by, which allowed for a good comparison of the two.

I noticed that the new '02 model's rear quarter glass, while similar in actual size, is much smaller in terms of "transparent" area to look through. The new model's "useable" glass is really quite small.

Also, I noticed the OBS is the only Impreza wagon to continue using the "AWD" decal on that same quarter panel glass. Neither the WRX or TS have that decal. They all have a small "AWD" decal on the rear window, however.

Bob

ramon

I have to say the green for the new OBS is really reall ugly.
Haven't test driven the new OBS or any new age Impreza for that matter. Just sat in them and fiddle around. Don't see why I should test drive those cars as I am not in the market of buying anyways. having said that Subaru of Canada just invited our our local Subaru club for a WRX test drive bonanza this may. bwahahhahaha....that I will go.

brekke

I test drove an auto Golf 1.8T just to get it out of my system. The way VW owners brag about their cars (and put down Japanese cars) I was expecting a religious experience. It wasn't bad; quiet, nicely put together and the engine was smooth and plenty powerful for my purposes. But I think my car is slightly more tossable( with squeaks galore and a much rougher ride). So I lost all interest in VW after I drove the Golf. (I think the OBS I test drove last year is sitting in the showroom)...Anyway, I'm even more interested in the OBS, if that's possible. BTW, what does "heavy-duty raised type suspension" mean exactly? Is that going to be soft?

gotenks: how were the brakes?

gotenks243

I don't remember much about the brake feel, so they must have been in line with what I'm used to. If they had felt different, I'm sure I would remember. I drive a '97 Outback, which of course has discs in the rear vs. the OBS' drums, an I didn't notice a major difference, so yeah, that's pretty good. The pedal definitely didn't have that slightly mushy feel (although fine once you get used to it) that my dad's VDC has.

Mike

rsholland

The new OBS, and other Impreza wagons equipped with the roof rack crossbars, have tie downs that are cleverly integrated into the crossbars.

I wish that our Forester and Impreza Outback had tie downs like this. I wouldn't be at all surprised if this feature shows up on the 2002 Forester and Outback.

Bob

celeste2

Wow, I wondered where you'd got to, modding out your car or what? Did you see the pics of the Lexus sportwagon on the I-club? If not look on the off-topic forum, I think dated yesterday or day before. This one's blue. What color did you see? Might be the same car, but baaaad all the way to the bone, what a car!!!!!!

ramon

I'm here all the time celeste.
The SportCross is a very nice wagon. I think it's the best looking wagon. Yes it's blue too. Oh, did I tell u that I got invited by Subaru of Canada to test drive their WRX? And it's no sunday afternoon drive either. There's gonna be slaloms, skidpads, braking tests etc.... Oh yeah baby!!! I'll let you know when I get back from the abuse...err I mean test. It's sometime in May.

brekke

OK, so this is pointless speculation til I can see one in the metal myself, but another poster test drove a 2002 OBS and wasn't all that impressed. He said the interior looked cheap and it performed exactly like his OB. Would you agree?

ramon

I am willing to bet tha the new OBS drives like the Forester. Since both shares the same engine now and weighs roughly the same.That makes me wonder, which model will hurt which model's sales?

celeste2

Didn't they do some kind of upgrade to the suspension to make it more like the Rally Sport?

Ramon-I hadn't been here in awhile and didn't see you much at i-club or OBS club, so wanted to make sure you weren't buried in snow, altho it should be letting up now. I am so envious--how did you cop that invite to drive the WRX??? In Tampa in April they're have an RS meet at a dealer who is sponsoring the event with refreshments, etc., and I wouldn't doubt there would be a WRX there. Can't go, #2 son has a music competition the same day, unless that happens to be in Tampa, too. We're really bummed......

gotenks243

The interior may have looked kinda cheap, but it was comfortable and functional. At least the seat fabric was beige, that gives it a nice look. That fabric may look cheap, but the seat is too comfortable to worry about it. The dash and everything else was essentially the same as the WRX.

Being lighter than my '97 OB with the same engine, it's faster than my car, and being smaller it's noticably more nimble. The power-steering feels wonderful too. My dad actually likes the handling on the OBS even better than the WRX, and can't put his finger on it. Until I drive a WRX (which will be a looooong time), I can't comment on that.

So no, I wouldn't agree. Not in full anyway.

Mike

ramon

well I'm slowly detaching myself from the OBS bbs club. I'm sure you know why right? The new OBS does not intrigue me at all. I still miss my lil silver wagon every so often. I like my RS more and more except for that stupid 2dr design! Other than that it's a great car. I'm not even in a rush to put back all my mods. In fact I just sold ase tof old 16 RS rims. It's not snowing anymore. Spring is here. yay!
Don't be envious celeste. It's a darn job. Someone has to thrash a WRX. So might as well be me.... ;-) I'm quite active at the Subaru Club in Toronto. It's a tight knit group whereby it's independant of the I-Club unlike all the other regional clubs. In fact our Toronto club is older than the i-club. Anyhow our club got invited. But only limited space available. All committee members are naturally invited...thus leaving about 10 or so spaces for interested members. I'm part of the committee there. Altho I have to say I hardly do anything...
I will still come here frequently to try and offer any insights or thoughts to any fellow who is interested at the OBS. It's a great car. It's true what they say about one's first....

celeste2

I'd say I have to agree about the new OBS. Saw alot of pics posted by someone somewhere (don't remember now), but the TS wagon (think that's what you call it) really impressed me more. I'm sort of mourning over what they did the OBS and think maybe they need to just kill it. ouch! Anyway, maybe that'll help the value of the older ones if there are people who really want that body style, just like some will like the older body style on the RS.

orangelebaron

Are only available in the WRX???
Same thing with their other models.
What's with Subaru??
I hate when carmakers pull sh*t like this.
Gee... well then I must spend the $5000 more
and get the WRX because the OBS does not offer them!

NOT! I'll just look for another car.
Maybe they should look at it that way.

ramon

Somehow I doubt that it will help hte resale value of the older OBS. reason being that the new OBS has a bigger engine and the interior is abit better and the car is overall more refined. I wouldn't be bothered with it tho. Cus we all know the older OBS kick rear [non-permissible content removed]. Looks meaner.
Oh, guess what? on my way home today as I was about to make a left, I saw this grey new passat coming from the opposite lane. It looked different than the other passats. I guess this must be their new "upscale" version. Anyways I was kidna admiring it (i have this thing with grey or gun metal coloured cars...) and all of a sudden this driver (mid 30s?) gave me a thumbs up. I guess he liked my car too. I was surprised. After all who'd know an owner of a Passat would like a boy racer-ish 2.5RS. Oh well it was a pleasant surprised. I think the GC8 Imprezas will garner more looks than the new age design. Nice to get some positive response on the road.

rsholland

I prefer the OBS, for the following reasons: Roof rack cross bars, ambient temperature gauge, rear bumper step pad, cargo area plastic mat are all standard. I like those features a lot. I do occasionally use the roof rack, and the rear bumper step pad and cargo mat really come in handy when I put our 95# golden retriever in the trunk area. She steps on the rear bumper getting in, and that rubber pad really protects the finish from her claws.

Also, a "standard" TS does not come with foglamps or alloy wheels. it really looks down-market without those items. I'm just saying—stock—IMHO, it doesn't come off visually as well to my eyes.

Aside from the ambient temperture gauge, and the 16" alloys, all the other items I mentioned are available as options on the TS, so you can always put them on. For me the OBS package is just more complete, right out of the crate, as it stands.

Another thing to consider, if you "option up" a TS to the same level of content of a stock OBS, it may(?) actually be more expensive than a OBS. When you add options from a dealer, they're usually more expensive than if those same items are standard.

Bob

ramon

I have to agree that plastic mat standard on the trunk is really useful! It is easily washable if you get mud or whatever gunk on it. A rinse off a hose is all u need. I like it so much that I brought it along to my RS. hehehehe.... Yeah the step pad is useful too. Cus u can avoid scratching the paint. The roof rack is useless. It's not strong enuf for anything. Maybe I just don't know how to use it. Virtually all my OBS buddies end up buying an aftermarket rack like Yakima or Thule.

celeste2

Yea, sometimes a company forces you into another model for options that are too costly on lesser ones... On my OBS we got the rubber mat and step pad. I guess the cruise control is the only option I would absolutely have to have on a lesser model. I hate the plastic strips between the roof racks on my OBS, the only thing I don't like--because when you wash and wax, it's a bugger to get between those things. I never even use a roof rack, just makes it look sporty.

What I really really don't like on the new OBS is the way they eliminated the two tone paint on the door panels. That was weird, not sure why.

RAMON: You really thought that passat was hot, eh? I haven't been too impressed, they look so boring.... this was really different looking from the others, though?? I'd be scared to get a VW after the bad stories that go around about their electrical stuff and other things......

rsholland

The new '02 roof rack cross bars have some nifty tie downs built in. They look pretty handy. As for rack capacity, it's only 100#.

As I mentioned, I use it occasionally—once year to get a Christmas tree. It's fine for that.

Bob

brekke

Is the OBS suspension better than the TS suspension, and why?

rsholland

It's (very) slightly different, but better? Depends on your perspective.

The OBS has what Subaru calls a "heavy-duty raised suspension." Okay... It's about .25" or so higher than the TS. As to the HD aspect, who knows what that really means?

The OBS does have larger 16" rims and larger (slightly wider) 205/55x16 tires. That's probably the biggest advantage it has over the TS.

Bob

ramon

whoa! christmas tree?! No way that's gonna go on my OBS roof or any my car's roof! Those tistles and branches will scratch up the already crappy Subar paint! I rather rent a pickup for that.

celeste : Well I'am a sucker for grey or gun metal coloured cars. Anyhow had another look at that new Passat again. I don't think it loos nice anymore. It's still ok but the rear cluster lights is so ricy now. Very similar to thsoe altezza lights.

rsholland

It's never been a problem. Where I go, (I cut my own) they wrap the tree up, so nothing really touches the paint.

Bob

ramon

well being a lazy fart, I have a plastic pseudo christmas tree wannabe tree. hahahahaha....

leomort

what brakes are they going to have on it? All wheel disc w/ABS?

Leo

gotenks243

It has front discs and rear drums, just like the TS. The RS and WRXs get bigger front discs plus rear discs. It's kinda disappointing that it doesn't have rear discs, but the rear brakes do so little of the braking, it's hardly noticable.

It has ABS standard, and I think the TS does too.... I guess that would mean every new Subaru now has ABS. Incredible.

Mike

beanboy

at the Outback sport. Was aiming for a WRX wagon, then discovered most of the driving experience can be had for much less, ie the great chassis, good steering feedback and what-not. Add to the fact the WRX wagon is detuned a bit suspension-wise and how the low-end grunt seems to be lacking has got me looking at the rest of the impreza wagon line.

Took a look at the TS, it seems that cruise control is not standard, and I can't seem to find it as an option. Can it be had as a package with the TS?

The Sport has it standard, as well as decent-sized tires and wheels. That in itself is worth the little bit extra they are asking methinks. The suspension appears to be a whopping 1/4" higher than the WRX with the same-sized tires, not sure why they even bothered. Any idea if the springs/shocks/roll bars are different than the TS?

With all that said, the Sport might be the compromise I am looking for in terms of low-end power and decent handling, combined with a reasonable cost.

gotenks243

Unfortunately, there's no cruise available at all on the TS. That alone would sell me on an OBS if I was in the market for it. I like my cruise control ;^]

Mike

beanboy

Perhaps they should have done away with the TS completely and left the Outback Sport and an RS wagon?

So the decision comes down to an Outback Sport or WRX I guess.

ramon

this is an OBS topic so I'm biased. Get the OBS.
Subaru should offer an RS wagon! Or a TS wagon with the same features as the OBS but minus tutone paint and raised suspension....
I mean if they can do that with the Legacy Wagon vs. Outback wagon, I don't see why not on the Impreza models!

beanboy

to really see how much of a difference there is in low-end grunt versus all-out power and how well each one handles the curves, and whether or not the differences are worth 5K.

Anybody know what tires come with the OBS now? Also curious as to what heavy duty suspension really means.

rsholland

I agree, it would be great to have an RS wagon too. Subaru, I'm assuming, wants to keep the model line up trim, and they need an entry-level model—hence the TS (and no RS wagon).

Bob

celeste2

I think Subaru does that because they know cruise control is something most people don't consider an option anymore, thus, you have to step up to the OBS!

Ramon-yeah, those lights are stupid lookin. By the way, my son read in a mag (maybe Road and Track) that Lexus will not bring that sport wagon to the US. Maybe they'll change their mind if wagons suddenly show popularity over the suv's and minivans as people wake up and decide to drive (sound like a Mitsubishi ad).......

ramon

what lights?

Well can't say that I am thrilled about hte nes that Lexus is not offering the SportCross. =( I really like it and I kno u'll hate me for this, it looks better than the current crop of Subaru wagons.

celeste2

about the Lexus sportwagon looking better than the current Subie wagons. You know, maybe they don't want competition with their own suv. Hey, what do you know about superchargers on the OBS? My husband and kid are buggin the crap out of me to get one put on, but I told them to just chill while I check it out and think about it. Sounds kinda dumb to me. From what most people say, the intake more of a reasonable place to start.....
By the way, what flag is that by your name? Doesn't look like a "Subie" flag.....

ramon

yup i make it a point to change once every 2 weeks. I am so enamoured by the flag features.

superchargers : stay away from them!!! I've been at the iclub and used to hang out at the SS2 Checkpoint(older than iclub!) for a while now and I would say 10/10 supercharger Impreza owners are never happy. Something always blow up. Rimmer makes crappy s/c. Jackson racing is not bothered with Subaru.
If u want force induction, go with turbo. Yup. If u want cheap hp, then an intake + exhaust + pulleyq will do the trick.
force induction for our cars require quite abit of tuning. It's not plug and play celeste. But tuned properly a turbo 2.2l will be more powerful than a WRX with a only 5-7psi(depending on turbo size).
Or u can buy a bottle of laughing gas and strap it at your cargo trunk just like what Kevin Thomas did to his crazy '97 OBS. A bottle of NOS a day keeps the Mustangs away...

celeste2

yea, some days I need a little laughing gas.....

Thanks for the input on the supercharger. There is another place here on Edmunds where some guy said how crappy they were for most cars. Just what I figured. Decided not to go with the pulley because of A/C compromising.... but the intake and exhaust sound like a safe bet.

Question: when you took off your roof rack on the OBS, it looks like you removed the whole thing, not just the crossbars. How did you get off the things the crossbars were attached to and do you have to fill any holes left??? Of course, off the i-club I have two people wanting my roof rack, you know how all those nuts are crazy after parts, it's pretty funny.....

ramon

keep the rack. u never know when u need to sell your OBS. The rack adds value. Makes it look errr... outdoorsie and ppl like that active lifestyle.
OK, u should have an instruction manual on how to take those racks off. Your glove compartment should have an allen key and the brochure on taking it out.
If not, go ask a suby mechanic.
Anyways this is how.... on the cross bar, the middle piece is a rubber runner strip. Lift one of the corners up and u can see an allen bolt. Use the allen key to take the bolt out. It's the same on all corners. Then if u peer into that triable thingy with the Outback Sport word on it, there are little pieces of plastic. Anyways remove all of 'em. You will notice that the side strip overlays the screws therefore not exposing the screws to the environment. I say spray some Rust Check gunk on it and voila. no more roof rack. It's easier if I can show u. Anyhow it's quite easy. Once u take that allen bolt off everything just sorta falls apart. hahaaha....
Now I am not sure if the Canadian OBS' roof rack is the same as the US roof racks. After all the US OBS and the CDN OBS have differences like standard alloy wheels (CDN), free trip to Disney land, laser guided missiles...