Lexus LS 460 Seats

bellhead

I sat in the LS460 and found the seats did not travel back enough or tilt high enough for me (height: 6-foot-1).
Also, the thigh-support area was too hard. I like the seats in the new RX350 much better. I wish Lexus would put the RX seats in the LS and add a bit more seat travel and
tilt. I'd buy one in a heartbeat if they did.
Seat comfort is the most important feature in a car for me, by far.

rpac

Hello Bellhead - Thanks for the info on the seats. I have purchased manyof the RX line and found the seats to be perfect! .Now in looking at the LS460, which I love, i have yet to find a comfortable posiiton of the seats. On top of that I have
a bad back and I have tried every after market cushion known to man with no sucess. I am glad you brought this issue to light and just maybe somebody will come up with an answr. Have you tried stting in the ES350? You will come out paralyzed, no joke. Thanks for your most informative post.By the way I am 6'4".
PacOne. :mad:

bellhead

Thanks for your reply PacOne. It's good to know someone else is also annoyed by comfort issues in a top-of-the-line car. I also can't find a comfortable setting for the seats in the LS (and had seating issues with all the other Lex's, ES included, in the dealer here in NJ). Again, the new RX had the best seats, but I still would have wanted some more seat travel, but I really want a sedan.

The LS460 seemed to have less space than an Toy. Avalon or Infiniti M35, and
and felt more Camry-sized
from a first impression. I expect a car of this caliber and price not to be cheap with an inch or two of legroom and height, and I should not have to move the seat to it's extreme positions to barely fit at my
non-extreme size (6-feet-even, 37-inch legs, 210 pounds).
Isn't the LS supposed to compete with the Mercedes S-class, and not the $50K E-class? I thought Lexus was supposed to be a better value than Benz/BMW/Audi.

My rant is that you hear so much attention to backseat comfort, and then they scrimp on driver's seat room ( with limited legroom, cushion height and tilt,
or seat width). And with all the options, how about an optional seat for tall or wide people, instead of the one-size-fits-all mentality.
And I feel like cars are shrinking. The first Lexus LS seemed to have more driver seat space, as I remember, along with the old Infiniti Q45.

Again, big thanks again for the reply, and I hope Lexus (and other car makers) read this.

rennybosch

If you do an Advanced Search for "Seat Comfort" in the Lexus LS groups you'll find many complaints going back to the early LS430 years. Apparently the Japanese do not hire Sumo wrestlers as test drivers :-)

rpac

Hello again Bellhead. Just wondering how you made out on the seats in the LS460. I just turned 76 (ugh) and I wanted a comfortable luxury car. Well, the LS really had all the bells and whistles I was looking for. BUT the seats remained a problem. I searched stores everywhere. And then it came to me. I rummaged through a bunch of junk I had been keeping for years. Found a kind of an odd shaped cushion. a bit thicker at the bottom, but not much.Then it sort of just fit the LS seat. I think the most important thing is all of the seat cushions you find out there are made for bucket seats. Anyway, I went out and bought a cushion with a black cover. I needed the cover to put on my old piece of junk cushion. Finally got it all together and put it in the car. Eureka! I found it. I am 6'4" and I now have more room for my legs. They dont touch the instrument panel at all. What I am tryinmg to say here is dont give up. Search around, try out all of the 16 different settings they have in the seats and I am sure you will eventually find good satisfaction. My best to you! rpac

rpac

Hi Bellhead. I think I goofed in this forum but wanted to remind you to look at my post to you re the LS460 seats. It is post #5. Best of luck.rpac

jtt1

I too have issues with the LS seats. I'm wondering if the seats in the sport model would be better. They claim to have a special sport seat. Wonder if I can find one to try?

rpac

Hi I have been an avid Lexus fan for many years. But my first purchase of the high end line turned out to be the LS460 (2009). The driver's seat is a disaster. If I have a wallet in my back pocket it wrinkles up the whole seat. So they agreed to have the seat overhauled by a well known uphholsterer. Great - for one day and old problem surfaced. So I decided to drive with my wallet in the console. Now the problem seems to be better. The seats I think are just too soft. I know a lot of people at the Lexus where I do business and I have been unable to find out anything about the 2010 sport model seats. they are remaining very tightlipped, telling me they will have the model out by Thanksgiving. Now I am 6'4" tall and my height does not create a problem because of the 16 or so ways you can adjust the seat. Tell me if you would please, just what are your issues with the seats???, because I am just about at the point of telling them to put in a brand new seat and see what happens. I hinted at the idea and they told me they replaced 4 seats so far and ended up with the same problem. I was also told the driver's seat is $6,000 that costs Lexus..(I don't care if it's $60,000.) For a car that cost me 80M I expect perfection.
Best of luck to you and I will keep you advised if I hear anything new.
Rpac

muleri

I'm really glad to know I am not alone in my unhappiness with the LS460 drivers seat. I find the drivers seat quite uncomfortable!!
I have fiddled with them for 2 years to no avail!
In fact, I suffer back aches if I drive longer than one hour, and I am now sick and tired of it.
I am seriously considering selling the car and cutting my loss.

Or does anybody know if there are after market seats I can buy to replace the drivers seat?

BTW, I have a 2007 LS460.

rpac

Hi Muleri
Lexus has a problem, we all know that. I just bought an 09 LS460. If I put a wallet in my back pocket it leaves a deep crumpled wrinkled indentation in the seat. I complained and they sublet the car to a leather guy that seemed to be real good and understood the problem. So I let him do it. He took the whole seat out and reupholstered everything, tightening it up and you would be surprised at the amount of excess leather he cut out. Anyway, couple days later same problem started to appear only not so bad. Seat felt tighter and better on long drives. BUT I am not satisfied. I hinted at a whole new, brand new complete seat. I was told it costs Lexus $6,000, and they had already done if for four customers and it turned out well for only one of the four customers. I told the Service Director I don’t care if it costs $60,000, when I pay 70 – 80M for a car I could care less what the seat costs. If I want a good seat I would have bought the Kia. So I am now waiting to see what happens. If I don’t get satisfaction I have a lawyer friend that will help me with arbitration until the matter is fixed. I feel very sorry for you, but don’t get rid of the car. It is a good car, it just needs some common sense applied to it. And by the way if you hear of any after market seats let me know.
Thanks and good luck, And let me hear from you!
Rpac
:mad:

muleri

Rpac,

Thanks for the reply. I will complain loudly to my lexus dealer to see what they can do for me before I attempt to get rid of the car....but at this point, the health of my back is at risk from the shockingly bad (for a $70k car) drivers seat.

Muleri

rpac

Hi Muleri
I forgot to mention to you that since 1985 I have 3 bulging disks and one herniated disk in my back. My surgeon tells me that he will not operate because the damage is too extensive. (Had a skiing accident). On top of that I came down with an acute attack of Rheumatoid Arthritis in 2001. So you better believe I raised you know what re the seat in my car. Go for it! I’m 76 – 6’4” 225# and I don’t get around like I used to so I had to raise a certain amount of trouble to get what I wanted. I do use a small cushion at the small of my back which helps me tremendously. I personally wish you the very best of luck!
Rpac

garyh1

I have severe chronic back pain (nerve damage from botched surgery) and owned an '05 LS430 in which I had to use a seat and back high density cushion. I now have a Mercedes S550, with a not-too-common but wonderful option called Drive Dynamic Multi-Contour seats. Gentlemen, if you have back problems, do yourselves a favor and try a car with this option. Not only can they be adjusted in multiple ways, but they also have an adjustable back massage feature that is really excellent for keeping your back muscles from going into spasm. And the interior space is huge, so legroom - front or rear - is not an issue. I bought a slightly used one for less than a new LS460, and just love it. If you suffer from back pain, try it once and you'll never buy another car without it.

lexus0622

Shortly after I purchased my LS460L I started having neck pain which was traced to an earlier diagnosed cervical spine impingement (slight pinched nerve in the neck). I couldn't figure out why it happened all of the sudden until I examined how I was getting into the car. Apparently, the top of the door frame was too short for me and I was tilting my head to the left as I entered the car to sit. I own a 1992 LS400 which I can enter without having to do this at all, so I was quite surprised when I discovered what I had to do in the lastest model, even with the seats lowered all the way.

I had to adjust my entry completely so that I sit first with both feet still outside of the car. Then I bend my head forward (rather than sideways) while lifting my right and then left legs into the cabin. Voila, no more neck pain!

Other than feeling like a woman entering my car, this is the only way I can get in. I'm 6'2" but, again, that was never a problem with my older LS400 or any other car I have driven. Biggest adjustment I have made to a car, instead of having the car adjust to me!

aklein2

Boy, was I glad to find this discussion and the question about the LS 460 Sport seats -- but wish I had checked here before buying mine! Let me tell you: they are hideous, just hideous. Who could have thought that this could happen with the top-of-the-line Lexus? Bought mine in September (my wife and I have owned Lexuses since they arrived here) and sitting in the driver's seat is not just uncomfortable, but excruciatingly painful over time. This is, as you would expect, especially so in the "sport" mode suspension setting, but true as well in the other two settings. I cannot explain this. The seat feels as if it has a pipe down the middle of it, fore to aft. Perhaps some drivers have sufficient padding of their own back there to cope with this, but I doubt it given the fact that the pipe thing is what one's bottom pelvic bone (or whatever it is) rests on with no apparent padding to cushion what is going on down there. And what that is is damage: the seat in this car is bruising my bones, literally. I reported this to the dealer and the seat was immediately replaced, no questions asked. Unhappy result: no change. I think it is a defect, a very serious one, in the design of the seat. (No one who was responsible for seat design at Lexus could possibly have ridden in the seat of this car with the Euro-tuned air suspension and then allowed this out the door of the factory.) I am returning the the dealer again today in the hope that additional padding can be added to address this. If not, or if that does not relieve the agony of driving this, I have no idea what to do next. Resort to the Lemon Law?

Kirstie_H

I'm sorry that you're experiencing so much discomfort with the seats; however, Lemon Law generally only applies to safety issues, or issues that make the vehicle inoperable. I don't *think* you can use it to return the car for this particular issue.

You might have better luck by continuing, with other owners, to complain here & to Lexus.

aklein2

To: kirstie_h HOST

I do not think that the Lemon Law of Virginia is limited in the way you suggest. Here is the relevant text (long, but you have to read it all):

"§ 59.1-207.11. Definitions.

"As used in this chapter, the following terms shall have the following meanings:
. . .
"Nonconformity" means a failure to conform with a warranty, a defect or a condition, including those that do not affect the driveability of the vehicle, which significantly impairs the use, market value, or safety of a motor vehicle."
...
"Significant impairment" means to render the new motor vehicle unfit, unreliable or unsafe for ordinary use or reasonable intended purposes."
...
"The term 'warranty' pertains to the obligations of the manufacturer in relation to materials, workmanship, and fitness of a motor vehicle for ordinary use or reasonable intended purposes throughout the duration of the lemon law rights period as defined under this section. "
...
"§ 59.1-207.13. Nonconformity of motor vehicles.

"A. If the manufacturer, its agents or authorized dealers do not conform the motor vehicle to any applicable warranty by repairing or correcting any defect or condition, including those that do not affect the driveability of the vehicle, which significantly impairs the use, market value, or safety of the motor vehicle to the consumer after a reasonable number of attempts during the lemon law rights period, the manufacturer shall:
...
"2. Accept return of the motor vehicle and refund to the consumer, lessor, and any lienholder as their interest may appear the full contract price, including all collateral charges, incidental damages, less a reasonable allowance for the consumer's use of the vehicle up to the date of the first notice of nonconformity that is given to the manufacturer, its agents or authorized dealer. Refunds or replacements shall be made to the consumer, lessor or lienholder, if any, as their interests may appear. The consumer shall have the unconditional right to choose a refund rather than a replacement vehicle . . . . "
...

"B. It shall be presumed that a reasonable number of attempts have been undertaken to conform a motor vehicle to any warranty and that the motor vehicle is significantly impaired if during the period of eighteen months following the date of original delivery of the motor vehicle to the consumer either:

"1. The same nonconformity has been subject to repair three or more times by the manufacturer, its agents or its authorized dealers and the same nonconformity continues to exist; . . ."

Nothing in this text of the law supports your suggestion that the "Lemon Law generally only applies to safety issues, or issues that make the vehicle inoperable." I would appreciate your citation of any authority to the contrary. It would seem enough that there is a deficiency in the "materials, workmanship, and fitness of a motor vehicle for ordinary use or reasonable intended purposes. . . . " sufficient to " significantly impair[ ] the use, market value, or safety of the motor vehicle" that cannot be repaired after reasonable efforts to do so. Inability to sit in a car's driver's seat without physical pain or damage due to the structure or design of the driver's seat surely would constitute a "non-conformity" with a "warranty" and a "significant impairment" as described above.

I do, though, intend to continue to complain and discuss this with other owners. How this works out with my dealer, of course, is a story that remains to be told.

Kirstie_H

I don't have any interest in, nor expertise in, arguing what Lemon Law in your state may or may not cover! The law is different in every state, and I'm not even a made-for-TV lawyer. I just wanted to prepare you in the eventuality that they do not consider seat discomfort to fall under the statute in your state.

If YOUR vehicle's seats aren't like others in the same make/model, I'd say your chances are better. If all of this model have the same seat design and comfort level, I think chances are better that a bunch of owner complaints might lead to a recall and replacement instead.

Even reading that definition, I think you might have a hard time, but I don't blame you one bit for trying. It seems perfectly reasonable to be dissatisfied that you've spent a lot of money on a vehicle that isn't the least bit comfortable to drive.

Kirstie_H

Oh, I just thought of something - we have a general Lemon Law discussion on our Smart Shopper board. There are a couple of people with real legal expertise who sometimes post there in answer to people's questions, so you might swing by there and see if anyone's heard of a similar case where Lemon Law applied.

aklein2

Your point about the Lemon Law is well taken. It's an unhappy pass to be in. I feel that, if I got to put jurors in the car and have them drive up and down the GW Parkway between Old Town and Mount Vernon, the case would be a sure winner. Litigation is always an unpleasant and costly thing to get involved in and uncertain in the end. I am very frustrated, though, by the dealer's refusal to take the car back under the circumstances and the inability of its service department to do anything to solve the problem. (Maybe I should be naming the dealer somewhere in here, though I have not done that to date -- not for vengeful reasons, but to steer others to better ones in our area, of which there is at least one with whom I have had very good experiences, but for some stupid reason did not deal with this time around.) How can such a great car have such flat-out lousy seats? The proper course may simply be to trade out of the marque, because I do think all this is attributable to a design flaw, after being with it since 1990, absorb whatever financial loss is involved, and forget about it. Sad end to a long and very enjoyable (until now) affair! I'll visit the Lemon Law discussion, though, as you've helpfully suggested.

Kirstie_H

Well, heck! I have just the place for you to do that:
http://www.edmunds.com/dealerships/drr/jump.html

We not only have a place to submit dealership reviews, we encourage it! Just start there and submit a review - it sounds like yours is more of a "service" review than a "sales" review at this point.

ncee

I know this sounds weird, but can the seats from the RX, be fitted into a LS?

Skip

jc19570

I wonder how many people have similar problems. I bought a 2007 LS460 5 months ago. I went on a 5-hour trip and that trip caused pain in my buttock areas. Also I started to have back pain as well after that. The pain has been around for three months, I never had back pain problems in the past. Physical therapy helps a bit. But the seat keeps on causing problems (pain) even it is a 10min drive. Thank you for sharing your info.

rpac

Hello ic19570. (Hope I got that right.). First of all my sympathies go out to you for your LS460 seat problems. I too owned an 09 LS460. I suffered from the first day I bought it. The leather was wrinkled and my wallet in my back pocket left an artistic impression on the seat, even if I drove only an hour or so. My back began to hurt. My whole body stiffened up, my legs ached. I had trouble getting out of the car because of the stiffness and pain. My feet started to go numb. Finally after much negation with the Service Director and Lexus they sent the seat out to be reupholstered. (They told me a whole new seat would cost $6000.) After everything was done that could be done I got rid of the car. Nothing and I mean nothing helped. Extra cushions, whatever – sorry to say nothing helped. I should mention that I am an elderly man 6’3” – 225#. I do sincerely hope that you can find someway to resolve your problem and especially alleviate your back discomfort.
Take care. :mad: