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Audi allroad

motokichimotokichi Member Posts: 48
The allroad is here with the 2.7T engine, 4 level
automatic air suspension and quattro. Is it the
ultimate all purpose vehicle, or just another
'pretend' SUV?


  • bollingerbollinger Member Posts: 207
    It does well offroad. But it isn't really for offroading. Thus, it is a pretend SUV. So what? It fits my needs very well.

    Look at the X5, one of the most pretend SUVs around, it sells well and people love it. They don't care much about the offroad capabilities. The Honda CR-X isn't selling because of its offroad capabilities (or even quality AWD) either.
  • motokichimotokichi Member Posts: 48
    I think where the allroad separates itself from the rest is in its potential to excel on and off road, thanks to its air assisted 4 level suspension. It raises and lowers itself according to the speed.

    Where many pretend SUV's (explorer and suburban come to mind) suffer is in their lack of ground clearance. They are too tall to be sporty on pavement and too low to be useful off road. The allroad addresses that problem by actually getting higher.

    Given the 250 hp biturbo engine and the body of an A6 Avant, this car could start a new concept in SUV's.

    The X5 sells because it's a BMW. It's the pavement capabilities that sell it. So between MB320, X5 and the allroad, which will be the best?
  • motokichimotokichi Member Posts: 48
    Does anybody know when it will be at the dealerships here?
  • bollingerbollinger Member Posts: 207
    Clearance is great, and the articulation on the Allroad is decent. However, without real diff locks, you can't do real offroading without overheating and heavily wearing the brakes.

    Once again, who cares? It's a fake SUV, so what? Most people are fake SUV drivers.

    I think the Allroad is wonderful and perfect for the market. It just isn't a true offroad vehicle. The name describes it well, it's good for all roads, even poor ones. Offroad is a different story.
  • jordanhjordanh Member Posts: 4
    I was going to buy the A6, but thought it too sluggish. When I heard that the Allroad was coming out with the 2.7T I thought all my problems were solved. However, I do still have a few questions that dealers haven't been able to answer.
    1) Will the bigger engine be counteracted by the heavier suspension? In other words - will I get just as much pep from the regular 2.8 A6?

    2) Is the interior space the same as the A6? I don't fit in some wagons (the smaller Volvo for instance) and want to make sure there is as much interior room in the front and back before I plunk down a deposit.

    3) What are we talking dollar-wise?

    4) Is it possible to get any bargaining leverage (Edmunds 3% over invoice rule) when you are on a waiting list for a new model? Seems like they have all the bargaining chips.

    5) Should I be fearful about buying a car the first year it is released?

    Thanks as always,
  • alingaling Member Posts: 598
    Well, IMHO, the Allroad is not a "fake SUV" because it is a hybrid wagon, much like the Volvo XC and Subaru Outback. Since Allroad is actually the A6 wagon, which has been out for a couple of years already, I wouldn't worry too much about reliability.
  • bollingerbollinger Member Posts: 207
    1, yes the heavier car cuts down on the speed of the Allroad somewhat. Still quite a bit faster than the 2.8 Avant though. Looking at low to mid 7's versus the 2.7Ts low to mid 6's and the 2.8's high 8's.
    2, same interior space as A6
    3, I forget, go to Audi's website. I think about $45K.
    4, no, not a chance. If you are on the waitlist for the car, you pay MSRP or very slightly less (like $500).
    5, it isn't a first year car by a long shot. Only the suspension is new. Engine is 18 months tested, A6 in general 3 years tested.
  • bgkannebgkanne Member Posts: 25
    A magazine comparison test with the 6 cylinder version of the X5 is in order! Why can't Audi get power out of their V6's without resulting to using turbos?
  • bollingerbollinger Member Posts: 207
    Audi's 2.8L V6 produces 193HP in the A4, 200 in the A6. BMW's 2.8L V6 produces 193HP.

    Where's the deficit?

    The new 3.0L BMW engine produces 225HP, although it isn't a very powerful 225HP, it performs significantly worse than the old 240HP M3 engine, despite similar ratings.

    The new Audi 3.0L engine that comes around next year is expected to produce 225HP.

    I think your assertion that Audi doesn't get enough power out of their 6-cyls is incorrect.
  • mr_quagmr_quag Member Posts: 28
    Keep in mind that air struts are expensive to replace if they fail. And failure to air struts are common with the pre 1994 Subarus.

  • beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    There's another one buried that started when the car first appeared in the mags on the show circuit. Saddened that the latest review states that the low-range option with the manual won't be available in the states, the skid plates are a riot in terms of actually protecting anything, and it weighs too much (over 4000 pounds!). As Jeff mentioned, I'm scared what kinda shape the suspension will be in 10 years down the road. I'm gonna pull an F-Body and say a Soobie with careful mods will be superior in performance on paper, and save you some money to boot.

    Still, not a bad compromise. Audi not have an SUV in the works? Finally, A4 version would be interesting... Maybe in a performance/rally version perhaps?

  • bollingerbollinger Member Posts: 207
    I'm sure a Subaru could be make to perform better. But most people aren't buying Audi's for the performance, Audi already proved that. A Subaru with all the mods in the world isn't going to have an Audi interior or quietness. Don't get me wrong, I love Subarus.

    Audi SUV: bite your tongue. VW and Porsche get the VAG SUV's. I say good for them. VW probably could make a go of it, and the Porsche version will tank so fast it won't hurt them too much.

    As to an A4 version being interesting? Have you been asleep? The S4 Avant has been available in Europe for quite some time. It has the 2.7T engine (but with 265HP) in an A4 Avant (wagon) body with a better suspension. The S4 Avant comes to the US this year, quite soon really.

    In Europe they have the RS4, which is available as an Avant (wagon) only. It is an S4 Avant with a super-tweaked 2.7T engine producing 380HP. It is the fastest wagon available In Europe. The RS4 is not coming here.

    Both of these cars seem to fit your description of an "A4 version" of the Allroad, except for the suspension, which you don't seem very hot on anyway.

    Audi's rally car seems to remain the S3. Rally cars do seem to get a lot of gain from being very small, so that makes sense. The S3 is essentially a VW Golf with a TT drivetrain making "only" 215HP.
  • bgkannebgkanne Member Posts: 25
    It isn't the power ratings, it's the acceleration numbers and performance feel. For example, a current 328i (or now 330i) will run rings around all of the 4 series Audi's except the S4. Non turbo Audi's are usually mentioned as not performing very well. I suspect it is due to the quattro systems causing additional drag, but the cars are excellent regardless!
  • motokichimotokichi Member Posts: 48
    Audi have a long history with the turbo engine, and they prefer it to larger displacement. The nice thing with their turbo engine is the power delivery, which is smooth and without significant lag or surge.
    As to why they don't get more out of their NA engines, I guess the five valve configuration makes it more difficult for them to employ a variable valve timing. I think their V6 has a longer stroke and smaller bore than the BMW I6. This may help them keep the engine shorter which allows it to be mounted (oh what's the opposite of transverse) in line with the drive shaft and still keep the engine way up in the nose. So while the engine makes the same amount of hp, it takes them longer to get to the peak hp rpm.

    Quattro cars have not been so much about acceleration but cornering speed. This is what allowed them to kick BMW butt in the 1995-96 German sports car series and got them eliminated from the series for having an "unfair advantage".
  • bollingerbollinger Member Posts: 207
    The 2.8L engine (and 2.7T) have two-stage valve timing. The 2.8 also has a two-stage variable volume intake plenum, I think only on the A6 though, since it won't fit under the A4 hood. The 4.2 has a three-stage variable volume intake plenum. The 2.7T doesn't seem to have a variable-volume intake plenum. But that's okay, as that kind of tweak does nothing when you have forced induction.

    I wish Audi would ditch the 5-valve design. My philosophy is that if you can't get it done with 4 valves, maybe you don't need to do it. 4 continuously variable valves seems to work well for Toyota/Lexus and BMW.

    The opposite of transverse (for engines) is longitudinal. The engine in the A4,A6, and A8 (and Passat) is longitudinally mounted. And I agree, the shortness of the V6 gives them Audi's a better shape and more under hood flexibilty than BMW's straight 6. BMW's straight 6 has to be mounted back so far for weight distribution that it can be difficult to service and is noisy at times.

    BMWs 2.8L is "square" at 3.31 bore x 3.31 stroke. Audi's 2.8L is 3.24x3.40. Strange that Audi adds a valve and loses bore, but there you go. Note BMW added stroke (and no bore) with the new 3.0L engine. If my math works, the new stroke should be 3.55.
  • bgkannebgkanne Member Posts: 25
    According to the latest Road & Track, the Allroad has, by Audi's account, a 0-60 time of 6.7 seconds, matching the BMW X5 (I assume the V8 version). Considering the estimated price of 45K, the Allroad is an incredible package and a relative bargain.
  • motokichimotokichi Member Posts: 48
    thank you for the info, I didn't realize that some Audi V6 had VVT.

    Seems like the long stroke should make the 3 liter inline 6 for BMW a torquey performer.
  • bollingerbollinger Member Posts: 207
    When BMW added stroke to the engine, it only gained 8 ft-lbs of torque. What a joke. I can't explain it, other then the changes to the VANOS and intake runners must have smoothed the torque curve by lowering the high spots as well as raising the low spots.
  • motokichimotokichi Member Posts: 48
    I wonder how the torque curve will compare to the MB 320 and the X5.
  • beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    FOr a rally-spec A4, I was thinking along the lines of taking an S4, putting on a traditional raised suspension and keeping an eye on the weight while fiddling with various slight engine/lighting/interior/exterior accouterments. Make it a limited release and have some sold to folks who are into the whole SCCA ProRally tours here in the US, similar to the deal DC had for the first year Neon ACRs. Heck, could even be called an RS4 here in the States, tehe.

  • bollingerbollinger Member Posts: 207
    That sounds great. You're really going to have to pull a lot of parts off since the A4/S4 is at its heart a luxury car.

    You could probably dump 50 lbs just of sound-dampening material (look inside the front fenders at the door openings!).

    If you are going to change the suspension, breaks, and tweak the engine, you might do well to buy A4's (perhaps even 1.8Ts) and replace the engine with a 2.7T engine instead of buying S4s from Audi which are limited edition and high profit margin. Would take a lot of front-end work though. Ooh, then you need to buy new trannies also (1.8T is 5-speed). Ouch. That's about $8K right there. Maybe that wasn't such a good idea.

    I don't know why I never responded to the torque question above. I'd be surprised if the torque band is wider on the E320 or the X5. the E320 didn't feel wider to me, and I've never driven the X5. Trust me, the 2.7T engine is smoother and more powerful in every way than the E320 engine. The 2.7T engine is making full torque (258 ft-lbs) at 1800RPM. Audi can claim this because they lie about full torque. The engine makes 258ft-lbs from 1800RPM to 3400RPM, and Audi claims it is flat. Actually, it peaks at about 270 or 275, and drops slowly toward 258 at 4000RPM.
  • beanboybeanboy Member Posts: 442
    Don't think a factory low-volume, high-priced rally-edition from Audi based on the S4 would have any trouble selling. Heck, a decent-sized aftermarket company could probably handle the costs of transforming an S4.

  • bgkannebgkanne Member Posts: 25
    Has anyone seen A4 wagons on the road? I have only seen one of the 3 series BMW wagons and not a single A4 wagon, and I am in the most German intensive car area in the US. I suspect the lack of interior room in them is killing their sales. Passat wagons are everywhere, as a comparison.
  • bollingerbollinger Member Posts: 207
    Are somewhat common around here, especially in SF. I agree there are more Passat wagons, but that's probably just because there are a lot more Passats.

    I agree the A4 doesn't make much sense as a wagon. Putting a big rear end on a car with small rear seat room isn' t the best idea.
  • MorganConradMorganConrad Member Posts: 21
    It's a great car for a dog - lots of space in the back for them. My dog wouldn't fit very well in the BMW 3 touring.

    Most Avant owners I know wonder why anybody would get the A4 sedan.
  • bollingerbollinger Member Posts: 207
    I wanted an A6 2.7T Avant, and Audi doesn't make one in the US. They make the allroad now, but it was unannounced when I bought mine.

    I had to pick between the 193HP wagon or 250HP sedan. I took the sedan.

    Audi now offers an S4 Avant in the US. Rear seat is too small for me though.
  • darenjpdxdarenjpdx Member Posts: 14
    I test drove an A6 today and almost bought an A6 Avant; coming home I saw more info about the Allroad. I'm very interested. I searched the web for info about current US availability, but found nothing. I'm wondering if anyone knows anything (even rumors) about when the Allroad will be available here in the US. I'd very much like to get one.
  • tcedwardstcedwards Member Posts: 1
    possibly due in next week, if our salesperson is correct
  • bgkannebgkanne Member Posts: 25
    The A6 Avant appears to be the best cross over wagon currently available, though I bet the Japanese will develop their own in the not too distant future. Current Subaru's really don't fit this category.
  • jcreed01jcreed01 Member Posts: 1
    I work at an Audi dealership and we got 2 today. At least one of them is already sold. We have several more coming. We are selling them for MSRP.
  • patriciab1patriciab1 Member Posts: 4
    Looking for the A4 avant 2.8. Seems to be an impossible task without waiting months. I'm in MA/NH area. Have tried two dealers today. any advice?

    Test drove the allroad--fabulous--but too pricey for me.
  • big_guybig_guy Member Posts: 372
    It looks like Audi has plans for a SUV/Crossover vehicle one step beyond the Allroad . . . the Steppenwolf concept.

    <<A HREF="http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/concept/steppenwolf/index.html">http://www.edmunds.com/edweb/editorial/concept/steppenwolf/index.html&gt;
  • primitiveprimitive Member Posts: 20
    I didn't realize that these were hard to find. I test drove one 3 weeks ago. Great car! Last week I saw it was still on the lot. Maybe it is a demo only. The adjustable suspension---I'm not sure why you would ever raise the car, even in snow for most of the country (please, you can't take it offroad). It takes about a minute or so to raise or lower manually. It was fast with not much turbo lag. Cool vehicle but overpriced.
  • rollierollie Member Posts: 337
    Regarding post #34:

    primitive, I've seen a couple of Allroads sitting on a dealer lot here in Southern California. I imagine they are in short supply in places like the Northeast?


  • taratara Member Posts: 30
    Hello! I just wanted to introduce myself, my name is Tara and I've just started working for Edmunds.com. I'll be your new host for Station Wagons:)
  • shoesshoes Member Posts: 131
    The latest issue of Autoweek says that Audi plans to bring 1600 Audi S-6's to the US by the end of this year and guess what- they only come in a wagon! Very exciting news for us wagonfreaks to have somewhere around 350 HP in a practical design. I am mystified by their decision to bring in only the wagon, but pleased nonetheless.

    The one fly in the ointment is that they posted acceleration figures of the low sixes. Gees, my BMW 540 T does better than that and I don't have to deal with Audi's squishy breaks, soft handling, poor build quality, bad fuel economy and sucky dealer network. I hope they plan on pricing this below $50K if they expect to compete.
  • sgbassinsgbassin Member Posts: 22
    I tow a boat thats apprx. 2500lbs and was wondering if someone has used the allroad for this purpose. Sometimes the ramps are slippery
    and was concerned about the traction of the
    thanks in advance
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    I cancelled my order for an allroad because the towing pkg has been delayed. Although there is some conflicting information out there as to when it is supposed to be available - and in fact it was already scheduled to be available late last year - I was told by Audi Client Relations to not expect it until this coming fall. Knowing that these things are rarely if ever introduced earlier than expected, I decided to opt out because I do need the towing capacity as I'll be replacing a '94 Grand Cherokee.

    I do like the allroad a lot and would love to get one, but I first need to be assured that I'll be able to tow with it when we want to take the boat out.
  • ramonramon Member Posts: 825
    The air suspension is both a marvelous feature and yet it can be a time bomb waiting to explode. I really don't think it will last long if you keep goin up and down with the suspension. However how many of those allroad buyers will raise the suspension anyways? It's just another poseur SUV which the general public doesn't care. How many allroad owners will actuall take their cars off road? Driving to some forest reserve park does not count as even a Corolla can do that nicely.
  • rjsenrjsen Member Posts: 30
    As much as I dislike the popularity of SUVs, I think vehicles like the allroad are part of the solution, not the problem. The allroad, at its heart, is an A6 wagon, which is a very capable on-road car. They simply add on the variable height suspension to make it more SUVish (and pull in SUV shoppers), whie retaining it's car-like handling and on-road driving dynamics. Wagons like the allroad and Volvo XC are exactly what most SUV buyers should be getting -- AWD wagons with light off-road abilities that don't sacrifice on-road behavior.
  • nelly33nelly33 Member Posts: 3
    I have a Mercedes Benz E320-MATIC on order and due in on February 15. The same dealer sell Audi's as well. Presently I have an '98 A6 Wagon and although I am happy with the performance, I have been extremely dissatisfied with the reliability and subsequent service. The car has required a new radio, new cluster, new coolant, new battery,new brakes and a few other repairs off the top of my head. The car overheated in the summer and it took the service department over a week to get it back to me and then a week later something else went wrong. Anyway, I did'nt even consider an A6 the second time around.
    Until today. I test drove the Allroad and thought it was a great car. There are more standard features offered and it goes for approximately 10k less. I am now considering the Allroad, but the history of my A6 is haunting me. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
  • slukatsslukats Member Posts: 2
    I have had my allroad since late December and have just loved it. It is a blast to drive. I guess the jury is out regarding reliability.

    You might want to check out the Audi allroad forum at audiworld.com. There are many posts on the product.
  • allroaderallroader Member Posts: 1
    We looked at all the usual suspects for a light duty off road wagon (including wagonoid vehicles) and chose the Allroad, three months ago. At 4000 miles, I think it was a good pick. Fit and finish were excellent. Great ergonomics, visibility, etc. Good acceleration, mild turbo lag, very good handling (for its weight), great brakes, fair gas mileage (ave. 18.5mpg).

    It has done some light off road and sandy washes, and performed fairly well. The height leveler is not a gimmick.

    The Bose stereo upgrade is well worth it as is the cold weather package.

    Only problems so far was faulty fuel gauge sending unit and a slight engine (not the turbo) whine, on hard acceleration. Fixed the former, no action on the latter by Audi.

    This car replaces the Subaru Outback LTD ('98) for us. It is so not in the same class as
    to not warrant a comparison.

    The Allroad is a great SUV alternative; and is as much fun as I can imagine having, while being in a wagon. Lots of compliments on appearance.
  • sgbassinsgbassin Member Posts: 22
    Took the allroad for a test drive and came back with a front flat tire. Was wondering since these are new tires for the companies Goodyear and Pirelli ( these where Goodyears)if people have been having any problems.Also how about tread wear. Otherwise what a great car!!
    Thanks -- Stan
  • JBaumgartJBaumgart Member Posts: 890
    There have been no reports that I've seen of allroad owners experiencing flat tires. I'm also a regular reader of the allroad forum at AudiWorld.com and do not recall seeing any mention of flat tires. Your flat on your test drive must have just been one of those things.
  • roseboom1roseboom1 Member Posts: 1
    We have been looking for a vehicle to replace our Explorer. WE have several parameters that we are looking for that include: must get better mileage than we get in the Explorer -15 hwy on a good day. We need to be able to take a total of 4 adults with all of their gear skiing for a long weekend. We need to be able to put two - 17 foot kayaks on top. It must be 4 wheel or all wheel drive (we never want to have to put chains on) and finally, it has to be comfortable.

    This brings us to the dilemma.

    We *really* want to like the Outback. It has everything we want except for one thing. It is really uncomfortable. the seats are small and hard. The depth of the seat is really short. for long trips (most weekends in the winter are 4-5 hours to the mountains) this is not good. I said we really want to like - we just don't. If we could get big comfy seats it would be perfect.

    Enter, the Audi A6 Quattro. Great car. VERY comfortable. Also pretty expensive. This would be o., but when we inquired about the tires - the dealer told us NOT to switch to a now/mud rated all terrain tire. He said that the performance would be really bad. Is this true? He said that we might consider having a second set and switching them out for ski season. the reason the tire issue is so big is that we don't want to have to put chains on. We ski mainly in Tahoe and most snow conditions here call for chains OR 4 wheel/all wheel with snow/mud rated tires. the worst we will drive in is with cans required to be carried, which is stage two. If it gets to stage three - 4 wheel/all wheel must have chains - we aren't going anywhere!!! Also, we notice that the spews call for premium gas. What about mid grade? Or a different question is ... if we get the A6 and we use premium - what type of emissions are we talking about?

    Of course, the tire question is answered with the All Road. Of course, I don't need this whole hydraulic thing. I just want to get to the snow. So, is the hassle and premium on the Allroad worth it? I haven't driven it yet - how different is it from the A6?
  • rjsenrjsen Member Posts: 30
    I can answer a few of your questions about the A6 (I'm guessing you were refering to the Avant). First, if you get performance winter tires (Michelin Pilot Alpins, Bridgestone Blizzak LM-22s, or anything else H-rated), and don't drive like Mario Andretti, you should be fine. H-rated means rated to 130mph, which is what the A6 is governed at (heck, the stock tires are H-rated). Second, you really do need to use premium gas. If you don't, you'll notice a loss in performance due to retarded ignition timing and possibly even 'knocking'.

    As for the allroad, it comes with M+S rated tires. It also has a considerably more powerful engine (2.7-liter biturbo vs. 2.8 liter non-turbo for the A6 Avant). Many people dislike turbos because they think they're unrealiable, but there's no evidence to suggest that a turbocharged engine is any less trustworthy than a non-turbo one. In addition, the turbochargers will give you much better performance in the thinner mountain air since they forcefully feed air into the engine. Oh, and you'll still need to use premium gas. If you can afford it, I think you'd probably appreciate a lot of what the allroad offers. On the other hand, you should be able to easily modify a normal A6 to fit your needs. Go check them out for yourself.
  • albert123albert123 Member Posts: 71
    Have you considered SUV with better than Explorer's MPG? That'll give you more choices -- MDX, ML and RX300 all with 16/20 or better mileage. They definitely meet your 4 adults plus their long weekend skiing gears and 2 kayaks on top need nicely. The allroad is great, but much more expensive($45K+) compared with A6 Avant and Volvo XC (both around $40K).
  • rock342rock342 Member Posts: 1
    Does anyone out there who owns an allroad purchased the optional Audi gps navigation system??

    I have scoured the web for information about it and come up blank. Even the car review sites only mention it in passing...

    I'd appreciate if someone could give some details about this system, the map CD's, where you have to put them, how many are required for the whole US, does it include 'points of interest' like so many other, would it be better just to add on an aftermarket system like the Alpine?

    Many thanks in advance!
  • slukatsslukats Member Posts: 2
    I purchased the allroad with factory GPS and have been using it since the end of December. There are 9 maps that cover the entire US with each having a rather broad area. For example, I have the South Central USA. It icludes all of Texas excluding the El Paso area, Louisiana, Oklahoma, Missouri, Arkansas, and the Southwest corner of Tennessee. The unit that takes the CDs is located in the cargo area on the left side behind a panel. It's the same area where the optional CD Changer would be located. Both can share the same area. One CD of the purchaser's choice is included with the system. I have heard that additional CDs are about $150....too expensive.

    There are 2 distinct camps on the allroad GPS. One group really prefers the map based systems and the other likes the allroad system. I actually prefer the unobtrusive allroad GPS to the others. The display appears discreetly in the area where you normally have the trip computer, etc. It shows arrows the indicate either straight ahead, left, or right turns. The names of the streets are shown below. There is a female voice that informs you of turns, etc. We have tried to get it lost and it has never failed. If you do not take a suggested turn, the system automatically recalculates a new route. The only disadvantage that I can see is that the controls of the GPS take the space of the console beverage cup holder. It would also be nice if one CD/DVD would cover the entire US.

    I have used the Hertz neverlost that is map based. Even though there are some advantages to having maps, I still prefer the allroad system.
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