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  • typhon1991typhon1991 Posts: 64
    isell I think I work in a store similar to yours family owned and virtually no salesman turnover. I have been selling cars for 9 years and half of this job is pure luck. Sometimes you get a stroke and sometimes you get a buyer. It just depends on which straw you draw.
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Posts: 677
    Ok, here's a simple scenario and question:

    Customer X goes to his friendly dealer (persian bazaar, no haggle, whatever), gloms onto a favorite car, discusses price, buys the car. Dealer Sales unit then makes its profit from that and other sales (won't go into what is "reasonable" or not here).

    Now, does any of this SALES profit go to the SERVICE department? Or is the latter a stand-alone operation that makes __its__ profit from efficient warranty processing and/or after warranty service and parts sales?

    Also one general comment: most "Professionals" (the ones that get college degrees, etc - not that it makes us "professional" __all the time__, but that is what we are classified as) despise dishonesty in a car dealer. Example: If I go to a dealer and agree to a reasonable price, then I expect that to be the price and not get jerked around at the last minute by finance or others at dealership.
  • danf1danf1 Posts: 935
    I can't speak for every dealership in the world, but sales and service are usually separate entities. Service makes the money while sales gives it away. It seems sometimes that the only reason that we sell cars is so that we can service them. The overhead in the sales department is huge compared to that in the service department.
  • audia8qaudia8q Posts: 3,138
    Think of a dealership as a number of different businesses..

    1. new car department
    2. used car department
    3. service department
    4. parts department
    5. body shop
    6. rental department

    when the used car department sends a car into the shop the used car department is often charged close to retail for their work...when the new car department wants a tube of touch up paint they are often charged the same or close to what joe blow pays off the street....when I get a loaner car for a used car customer who is in for service the rental department charges the used car department..... etc
    so when a sale is made...the profits stay in the sales department but they might get charged by the service department to clean it.

    essentially its like a bunch of business that operate under one roof and they all stand alone and often don't get along.. (you never find a used car manager who likes the his/her service department, lol) Of course, there are exceptions and variations to this at each dealership but it gives you and idea.
  • kurtamaxxguykurtamaxxguy Posts: 677
    If sales is truely separate from Service, it sets up this senario::

    1. Find a good local service department for your proposed car (BBB, referrals, forums, etc),

    2. Find another dealer, anywhere you can get to, that will not "play games" with selling you the proposed car.

    In some (rare ?) cases, you may find 1 and 2 are at the same location.

    To me, this is ridiculous. Most other retail businesses do sales __and__ service, with the two complementing each other. How the car business got so screwed up here is beyond me. But what is, is what is.
  • typhon1991typhon1991 Posts: 64
    for being a college educated professional you seem to lack common sense. Sales and service do work together but for accounting they are seperate. This is no different than any other business with a sales side and a service side. You can buy a car and take it elsewhere if you want but if my customer is having a problem with the vehicle that I sold them, I will go back and talk to the tech and get with the service manager if necessary to rectify the problem. Modern cars have so much technology in them that the old fashioned repair shops have started to go out of business. for example the new C6 Corvette has 17 computer on board. I wouldn't trust anybody but a factory trained tech to fix it.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    Not a firsthand story, but still illustrates the buyer side of the equation.

    Several years ago, my wife's stepfather's mother passed away, leaving a bit of an estate. Said stepfather decides to replace my mother-in-law's car.

    Goes to the Cadillac dealer one Saturday in fairly grubby clothes. Salesman, like those who post here, sizes him up as a potential sale. Buys an Eldorado ETC for cash (IIRC, something like $40K).

    A year later, he does the same thing at the Jeep dealer with a Grand Cherokee Limited for himself. Cash deal, grubby clothes.

    Now, this was in Cheyenne, WY, so I'm not sure that he was dressed out of the ordinary for the town. :D
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Yes, luck has a huge part in it.

    I think there are three kinds of customers.

    1. Buyers. These people are out to buy a car.

    2. Strokes/Non buyers...Thse are either joyriders, flakes, time wasters, bad credit or too buried in their trades to do anything.

    3. Casual shoppers.

    These are the people where the abilities and people skills of the salesperson can make or break a sale.
  • grelcargrelcar Posts: 2
    I am beginning to look for a new car. I have a number of cars I am considering. I have researched these cars on the internet. I plan to see the models I am interested in person. When I narrow my search to a few cars, I plan to test drive each of them.

    What is the best way to approach this with a dealer? I have been to a few lots and told the salesman who greeted me that I was just looking. They have handed me a card and said to let them know if I have any questions. I'm okay with this. If I do have questions but have no intention of purchasing a car right then am I wasting their time? Will I also just be wasting a salesman's time when I have narrowed down my choices and want to test drive a few cars that I have no intention of buying at that time? What sort of information should I be obligated to give a salesman or dealership in order to be allowed to test drive a car?

    Once I decide on the model I want I will try to locate the car with the options I want and contact that dealership with that car and then try to make a deal. If we are unable to come to terms I will try another dealership with the same or similar car.

    Is there anything wrong with this approach.
  • liferulesliferules Posts: 531
    Yeah, it just amazes me that some people will spend so much time with a salesman. Not that I don't like salesmen, but I usually go into a dealership either to see a car (which doesn't require a salesman, and by that time, I've researched it enough where I don't have any questions), to test drive it (where I just want to drive it, again, no small talk), or to discuss purchase.

    I just don't understand some customers wasting their and their salesmen's time with silly questions that they can easily read on the web or in a brochure...

    I guess I'd get pretty frustrated if I had someone waste my time and then walk away...
  • typhon1991typhon1991 Posts: 64
    there is nothing wrong with telling the sales person of your intentions up front. You will find that if you are upfront with them, they will return the favor. One thing that we do ask though is if you are just "looking" please don't stop in during peak times say Saturday between 11am and 4pm. You might want to contact someone in the sales department via phone or email and set up an appoinment time with them. If you can't make it, please call and let them know. Most salespeople won't take a customer if they are expecting someone to come in and see them. If you blow them off, it could cost that salesperson money by them not taking another customer.
    Also if you like your salesperson, let them locate the specific vehicle that you want. It is alot easier for us to do than you. We do it every day. Good Luck to you.
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    I would just add, don't test drive cars you know you wouldn't buy. That's a waste of everyone's time.

    Just be upfront, tell your salesperson you have several cars on your list and you want to make the choice that's best for you.

    And, don't do this until you are really ready to buy. the quickest way for a salesperson to lose interest is when they are told the purchase is a month off or more.

    Ask your friends and neighbors for a referral if possible.
  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    "If I do have questions but have no intention of purchasing a car right then am I wasting their time?"

    In this case, I think it is OK to ask questions, but keep them short.

    "Will I also just be wasting a salesman's time when I have narrowed down my choices and want to test drive a few cars that I have no intention of buying at that time?"

    If you think you may buy a car like that in the future (even a year from now), I think it is fine to test drive it. Don't waste much of the sales person's time. Be very straightforward and tell the sales person you are not buying a car that day.

    "What sort of information should I be obligated to give a salesman or dealership in order to be allowed to test drive a car?"

    They own the car. You need to give them whatever they ask for - a birth certificate, $10000 deposit, Paris Hilton tee shirt, whatever. If you don't like their policies, go somewhere else. Usually we just let them copy our driver's license.

    It takes us a long, long time to decide what kind of car we want to buy. Before we bought our last car, we spent over a year thinking about the color we wanted. Yeah, that's right - over a year.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,614
    >Usually we just let them copy our driver's license.

    Do you let them scan the magnetic stripe on your driver's license?

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • stulujustuluju Posts: 8
    I would like to buy my wife a minivan. Preferably a 2006 Honda Odysey when it comes out. However I wanted her to test drive it first to see if she could get used to driving a minivan. They only have the 2005's in now. While I dont want to waste anyone times by test driviing a car that i wont buy, i feel it would be helpful for our future purchase.

    I spoke with one Honda Dealer and all he did was try to sell me the 2005(Without even a test drive) and wouldn't even tell me when the 2006 comes out. I dont want to go through the same experience again when she test drives a car and I'm there for a long time with them trying to sell me the 2005. What the best way to approach a dealer with what I want to do so I can get the information necessary for 2006 purchase. It seems they are just interested in an immediate purchase. I dont want to waste his time or mine.

    Any advice would be appreciated
  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    They want to sell what they have in stock now. If you really want to wait to buy a 2006, just wait until they come out and then go drive one. this will probably happen around September.

    They won't drive one bit differently than a 2005. If you drive a 2005 now, you will have forgotton how it drove by the time the 2006's are out.

    So, would have been a waste of both of your time.

    Why not a 2005?
  • jayellesevenjayelleseven Posts: 150
    Customers normally make the car buying process difficult not the sales person.

    How?? Customers just want a car at a good price. Dealers and salespeople are the ones that want to push sales and want every customer to buy the fully loaded car...
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Posts: 1,060
    When a car goes through the auction line (such as Manheim) and it is a dealer buyback ( I was told in an earlier post on this forum that a dealer buyback is a manufacturer "lemon" buyback)...does the auction have to disclose to you (the potential buyer of said vehicle.... that it was a "lemon" car... and if so, what the problems were on said vehicle????
  • andre1969andre1969 Posts: 23,552
    How is it possible, after you buy a car, if you decide you don't like it, to take it back to the dealer and get your money back?

    The reason this came up is one of my co-workers recently had her minivan stolen. It was recovered, but totaled out. Her insurance man said he knew someone who could help her find another car at a good price, but she got impatient and went out and bought one on Thursday nite...a 2002 Mercury Mountaineer. Well, on Friday, her insurance guy said that his man found one for her, another '02 Mountaineer, with less miles, for less money. She said she'd take it if she could do an even swap.

    But then, our supervisor chimed in and told her to just take her Mountaineer back to the dealer and say she wants her money back, and that the most she might lose is maybe $100.00. Is that true? I know there's no such thing as a "72 hour law" applied to cars, although it does get perpetuated. I brought that up, and my supervisor simply said that he's done it twice, himself. But, naturally, he wouldn't give us any details as to the circumstances.

    For example, I'm sure if he took a used car back and decided he wanted something more expensive/higher profit, then they might actually beg to take it back. Or if he'd been such a great customer, generating plenty of referral business for them, they might be willing to do it.

    And I know some used car places will actually LET you bring a car back within something like 3 days or 150 miles, if you change your mind. But I was always under the impression that that was just something they happened to offer, and not actually required to do.

    So, is there a "reasonable" way to take a car back and get your money back, or is my supervisor probably just blowing smoke, or leaving a few important details out of his transactions?

    Personally, the way I look at it, if my co-worker was stupid enough to buy the thing, then she needs to live with it. It's not the dealer's fault that she went out and made an impulse buy!
  • weno2weno2 Posts: 38
    I'm ready to purchase, and I'm going to do it by sending e-mails to the respective dealers.

    What (and how) should I ask them for a quote. Total cost (w/TT&L, etc); Price of the car?

    Some things are constants (sales tax, registration, etc.), so maybe I don't need to have that rolled into the price.

    I know I'm going to buy at the end of the month, so should I mention this in the e-mail?

    Thanks :confuse:
  • nortsr1nortsr1 Posts: 1,060
    What happened to my answers for question 11750????
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ........ I wanted to touch base on this before we got too far down the road ...

    First of all - "most", as in 65/75% of the folks that read Edmunds spend their time doing real research, reading thru the forums and getting a much better idea of what to do and how to do it .. they're informed and they know what they're looking for, as you Denali .. then you also have the other types, that read what they want read, pick what they want to pick and that becomes the Gospel (in their mind) .. I call it the "rule of 21" - it's like my Neice, she will ask you a question, and if she doesn't agree with you she will call 21 people until someone agree's with her .. let's forget the facts .l.o.l...

    We kid around with Bobst .. but I feel he's a knowledgeable guy and knows he can't buy a Dodge Magnum for $2,000 back of invoice and have the dealer drop $12,000 into his 180,000 mile Jeep, even though some "book" somewhere might say so .. as you do.

    **Let me ask you guys a question: how hard is it to offer a person a quote? It seems like a very straightforward thing to say, "I can sell that car for this much." But the advent of resources like Edmunds, and Internet Sales' departments notwithstanding, dealers--not all, but many, or even most--resist like heck the concept of giving someone a bottom-line best offer. Why is that?**

    Alot of the time, not all, but a bunch of the time - you have folks looking at a $23,000 ABC car (and thats "their" target vehicle) .. so as time goes on, they're looking at a $26,000 XYZ, then we're off to a $29,000 MNOP car .. they might like the color, the neighbor has one, the guys at work might like it better, but it's $6,000 more (plus taxes) and thats no biggie --until- they finally find out the payment is going to be $100+ more a month .. then everything comes to a screeeeeching halt.! .. .. then we get the: "the dealer won't work with me" - "they are ripping me off" - "I can get a better price" ...... what happened to the $23,000 vehicle that they set "their" sites on.?? .. and how and where can the dealer bury $6,000+..?? - they can't, so they don't -- so the customer leaves dissapointed., feels like "he's/she's" been scammed and finally the light goes on after the 2nd or 3rd dealer and they say: "HEY, we need to move down in price "IF" we want that particular payment" ...... Bingo.! ....

    The funny part about this business is .. folks will shop price for weeks, haggle over trade value - but they forget the most important thing --until- they get there --- payment.! .... they need to be looking at what their range is first .. not last ..l.o.l.... and they can do that in about 3 seconds with a Kalcatator, you know, one of those add-em-up' things ... this way, they won't leave and blame the dealer .........

    ** have a little experience with procurement, and if I put out an RFQ for a piece of equipment or a job and the seller wants to see my financials before even quoting me, there’s NO WAY I’m doing business with that seller.**

    I understand your point and I agree .. but with a procurement they are buying materials and a service from a company - and usually not dragging in any "negative equity" and/or maybe not a "less" than average credit history (which means less ability to buy) and you don't have to deal with 68,000 mile Kia on the hook ..l.o.l.... .... I guess the point is, you kinda pay for the bad habits of the bad buyers that have set-up the standard reaction from most dealers after all of these year ..... ¿Tiene esto sentido.?? ...

    Terry ;)
  • steverstever Posts: 52,462
    Won't help your friend Andre, but interesting:

    California Car Buyers Will Have Best Protection in U.S. (Inside Line)

    Steve, Host
  • volvodan1volvodan1 Posts: 196
    State by state may differ, but if you've signed, paid, and drove away they don't have to do anything. The examples you give are instances where we may bend but otherwise, no. Generally if someone came back and did that it would be pretty obvious that they found something that they thought was better. The supervisor may have done it, but I'm sure he is leaving a few "small" details out. Every circumstance is different.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ...... I don't know whats worse .. the new Bankruptcy laws, or this one .. now every dealer will be held captive by every neighbor, cousin or shade-tree mechanic ....

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225

    No, she can't bring it back. Now, some places may let her exchange it for another car but this case is different. someone told her she could have bought a better one for less money?

  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    Keep it simple. Ask for an out-the-door price, which includes everything.
  • steine13steine13 Posts: 2,715

    The only good thing is that it costs "extra" and you won't have to pay for it. Before the car is sold, there can be inspections, a half hour on the freeway, an emissions test or whatever.

    But when the car changes owners, and the dealer has no more say in how it gets used, and what gas gets put in, and who dings it up...

    ... then, as far as I'm concerned, it's OVER.

  • isellhondasisellhondas Issaquah WashingtonPosts: 20,225
    Only in California...I'm glad I left.

    At least it'll cost people some money to return the car. This is NOT a good thing. buy a car on a whim, go home and decide it's the wrong color or your next door neighbor tells about " a friend's cousin" who had one that caused trouble.

    Looks like Barbara and Dianne are at it agian!
  • kyfdxkyfdx Posts: 128,237
    I call it the "rule of 21" - it's like my Neice, she will ask you a question, and if she doesn't agree with you she will call 21 people until someone agree's with her ..

    This is the best one in months... keep 'em coming..

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

This discussion has been closed.