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  • mattb5mattb5 Posts: 3
    Thanks all. Just to clarify, the credit union paid the dealership the price of the car + a shipping cost. The dealer then hired a transporter to deliver the vehicle. The transporter got into an accident, ironically 10 miles from my house (it was delivered from NC to LA).

    I personally have not signed anything to Toyota (the credit union may have). It is not the end of the world, but I saved up for a new car and that is what I should get. I only buy a new car every 10 years. You pay a premium for new cars because you know they have never been in an accident, have know scratches, etc. It seems like I should get what I paid for. If you buy a TV over the internet and it shows up broken. Wouldn't you send it back and get a new one?
  • scantyscanty Posts: 171
    If you haven't taken possession of the vehicle (and it sounds like you haven't) you should be able to unwind this deal.
  • steine13steine13 Posts: 2,707
    I'm with scanty. Here in MI, until you've driven the car 20 ft on a public road, there is no deal. Don't matter what you signed. I think you'll have to research the laws of the state where you bought the car.
    Good luck,
  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,440
    True, you haven't physically accepted the vehicle yet so technically you don't have the vehicle in your possession, so technically even though you signed the papers you have not received the product mentioned in the contract ie: new damage free original vehicle. Somebody will take a loss here but it shouldn't be you.

    What does your credit union have to say about this? Are they on your side as they are the ones lending you money on a now diminished value vehicle?

    boomchek: driven 10,000+ cars, sold 1000+ cars, owned 50+ cars

  • boomchekboomchek Vancouver, BC, CanadaPosts: 5,440
    Also the car in transport wasn't registered to you yet, as in reg'd and insured under your name, was it? Was it being delivered to a dealer near you for you to pick it up or straight to your house?

    Here a car is yours (customer's) once it's reg'd, the license plates are on it, and the customer ( or somebody) drives it off the lot, until then it's the dealer's.

    boomchek: driven 10,000+ cars, sold 1000+ cars, owned 50+ cars

  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    I don't see what the big deal is. If it was a TV purchased over the internet, shipped, and arrived damaged. Refuse delivery, send it back, and it's up to the sender (dealer), to make things right. In my book, that means, sending another vehicle.

    Who hired the transporter? The dealer. It's their problem. If the buyer hired the transporter, different story. If I were in your shoes, I'd make sure the dealer is aware I wouldn't accept THAT vehicle on any terms and that I'd expect a new vehicle reshipped. Any issues with the damaged vehicle are between the transporter and the dealer.

    I'd bet there are state laws that apply here. Keep us informed on what happens.
  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    Who hired the transporter? The dealer. It's their problem.

    Not necessarily. Shipment of goods typically is FOB shipping point - free on board. Once it gets on the truck, it's no longer the shipper's goods - it belongs to the consignee.

    I'm still surprised that the original poster hasn't signed any documents pertaining the the purchase of the vehicle. That smells funny to me.
  • volvomaxvolvomax Posts: 5,274
    I agree.
    The dealer isn't going to give you a new car. Simply put, their insurance won't cover it since it was in the possesion of the transport co.
    It is up to the transport co to make good.

    I also find it odd that you claim not to have signed any paperwork pertaining to ownership of the car. I can't think of any dealer that would ship a car anywhere, much less cross country without the purchase order being signed and the funds in the bank.

    In a perfect world the transport co would replace the car, but this isn't likely to happen either. They will fix the car, plus you might get something for diminished value.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ......... Sorry to hear about the damage .... but I'm a little confused ..

    ..."it was delivered from NC to LA" ...

    What vehicle can't be bought in California that can be bought in North Carolina .. and why would you ship it 2,500 miles..?

    I'm not defending nobody here, but the dealer has his money, the transport company has been paid and they're on the hook for the damage and they're insured ....

    Maybe I'm missing something here, it's early and I haven't finished my first cup of coffee yet .... 3 questions:

    1.) who has the title..?

    2.) who got the $5,000 .?

    3.) what kind of car is it.?

    more coffee ...

  • manamalmanamal Posts: 434
    LA? I thought he ment Louisianna.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ...... Maybe "Lower Alabama" ....................?

    Terry :shades:
  • Kirstie_HKirstie_H Posts: 11,077
    Since we've talked a lot in the past about whether it's worthwhile to drive 250 miles to save $100, I thought I'd point out this very nice post from our pal mackabee outlining some reasons to buy locally, some of which haven't been brought up before:
    mackabee, "Toyota Avalon: Prices Paid & Buying Experience" #285, 24 May 2005 3:49 pm


    Need help navigating? [email protected] - or send a private message by clicking on my name.

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  • blh7068blh7068 Posts: 375
    True, you haven't physically accepted the vehicle yet so technically you don't have the vehicle in your possession, so technically even though you signed the papers you have not received the product mentioned in the contract ie: new damage free original vehicle. Somebody will take a loss here but it shouldn't be you."

    Thats what I was've signed papers but havent taken delivery. I would think that could(would) be the out here.

    Here in Oklahoma, delivery has been taken when the vehicle leaves the dealers premises. On one purchase, I wasnt picking up the car until the next day...but my sales guy insisted I "pull around to the front of the store" which required briefly leaving the premises.

    I already knew what that was all about, but he told me why anyways.


    Has this poster already taken delivery, or for another reason is it just not applicable in this case?
  • kyfdxkyfdx Everywhere, USAPosts: 122,969
    I think he took delivery when the car was put on the transporter...

    It isn't a car being shipped from one dealer to another...

    He bought the car in NC, even if he wasn't there personally... Dealers aren't licensed to sell out-of-state.. The sale took place in NC, whether he was there or not.

    Not only that, money has changed hands (the entire amount, I believe). Not the same as just making a deposit.

    I think it is between him, the transporter (and their insurance company), and possibly his own insurance company (if he needs their help).

    (who thinks this stinks, either way.. condolences)

    Did you get a good deal? Be sure to come back and share!

    Edmunds Moderator

  • gogiboygogiboy Posts: 732
    " What vehicle can't be bought in California that can be bought in North Carolina .. and why would you ship it 2,500 miles..?"

    Terry--you'd be surprised. I believe this individual said he had ordered a Toyota. In LA (Louisiana) he falls under the same Toyota jurisdiction as we do in OK. This five-state area is represented by Gulf States Toyota. GST operates independently of US Toyota and only orders vehicles with option packages that GST determines to be easily sold in this region. Thus, it is very hard to get AWD versions of Toyotas SUVs and even harder to get side airbags (with our wide open spaces we only have to watch for buffalo broad siding us)--or at least it was with the 04 Rav4 we were trying to get.

    He could have ordered one, which is what we did, only to wait 6 months and have our local dealer state that GST wasn't going to honor our requisition. We briefly thought about getting one equipped exactly as we wanted in MD before coming to our senses and getting a used 02 instead.

    I'm unaware of other manufacturers that do this, but Toyota lets GST operate this way and it can be a real hassle if you want a car that isn't packaged with X options simply because they are popular for the area, plus the Rav4 is manufactured in Japan, which adds another layer of difficulty. The other thing GST does is combine a lot of add-on "value" packages together that add profit, but not always value from the consumer's perspective.

    Not being an attorney I can't help with the other discussion.

  • robr2robr2 BostonPosts: 8,863
    I was thinking the same - trying to avoid the Gulf States or Southeast Toyota issues. But IIRC, the original poster said something about not being able to get the color he wanted.
  • bobstbobst Posts: 1,783
    Don't put a large amount of money toward a purchase until you can see the item right before your eyes.
  • bolivarbolivar Posts: 2,316
    ... very thoughtful -troll-?

    He's thought up a scenero with complications....

    And we're seeing people come down on all sides of this discussion.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ... ** think he took delivery when the car was put on the transporter...** ..

    Bingo ........!

  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Posts: 543
    As to when or if he "took delivery", but this is one more example of why I'll never do something like this. I mean a one way flight would have cost less money.

    I do recall a few years back that some dealer (or dealers) that received "damaged" bmws were repairing / repainting the damage and not informing customers, and someone got sued, don't know how it turned out.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    ........ Actually that was a BMW thing, not a dealer thing ....

    In this case, he contracted for the vehicle and "I'm sure" he knew it was going to be transported ...l.o.l... ... after the transport company takes possession, it's between him and them .. of course we would know more if the idiot posted back ... somebody just emailed me about a similiar deal, and like I said to him: "I'm not real crazy about those long distance car affairs" ....

    Terry ;)
  • alfoxalfox Posts: 716
    commit to a car he'd never seen or driven in the first place. He'd obviously made a commitment in the eyes of the CU or they'd never have paid. And to complicate things by buying one out of state. Shipped goods belong to the reciever. In most cases you cannot refuse delivery. I'm afraid he owns the car.

    Does sound like a troll post, doesn't it?
  • cadillacmikecadillacmike Posts: 543
    I can see that on a "NEW" car, you can see the color locally, but maybe options wanted not available - or the other way around, but I'd fly in to drive it back, not have it shipped, too much BS on the highways.

    But then again one can always ORDER a car - oh we're talking TOYotas here - oh well, perhaps time to get an American car?
  • scantyscanty Posts: 171
    This was in the local fish wrap today. Dream car turns into court battle
    Here's my take: It's not like the guy just walked in off of the street and is complaining that he is being overcharged. He put a deposit on one back in 2002, before pricing was even set. I can't wait to see how it plays out. What do our dealer friends think?
  • alfoxalfox Posts: 716
    Should be real easy - there had to be paper signed when he paid, and whatever the paper says rules.

    If this guy (an attorney, eh?) signed a sales order with something non-specific on it like "price to be determined on delivery" then he deserves to either pony up the $200+k or lose the car. Just read the paper.
  • michaellnomichaellno Posts: 4,300
    From the article, it looks as if there was nothing written down when the initial $1K changed hands. So, it becomes a classic case of "he said, he said".

    In the past, with hot cars (original Miata, New Beetle, PT Cruiser, Viper, Prowler, Odyssey, etc.), the money usually is as the dealer says .. 'right of first refusal'. The money puts you on a list for a car, and when a car arrives, you have the choice to buy it or not, at an agreed upon price.
  • alfoxalfox Posts: 716
    but if you are I wouldn't want him handling my divorce. I'd be surprised if a lawyer handed a car dealer $1k with nothing written. I'm betting there's more to this story than we yet know.
  • capitanocapitano Posts: 509
    Say he gets the car at his price. Where does he go for service? His notoriety amongst the dealers is assured. Would any of them want his business? Particularly for warranty work? This car is not a Focus that blends into the sea of other cars.
  • rroyce10rroyce10 Posts: 9,359
    .. **A deal is a deal, insists Brennan, 64, who said the deposit he paid on May 24, 2002, included an agreement to pay whatever Ford eventually listed as the manufacturer's suggested retail price** .....

    This is not the first (or the last) this type of thing has happened .... the Miata's when they first came out were getting $4,000 over sticker, the PT's, the T-Birds, the new Benz is getting $6/$10+ over MSRP .... no where in the contract does it say price - "he has first right of refusal" ... dealers are paying $190,000++ at the auctions ... where's he going..?

    06/01/2005 ATLANTA $ 188,000 3 RED 8G 6 SE
    05/19/2005 MANHEIM $ 195,500 4 WHITE 8G 5 X NE
    05/19/2005 MANHEIM $ 195,000 6 RED 8G 6 X NE
    01/11/2005 FAAO $ 211,000 28 Red 8G 6 X SE
    04/20/2005 MANHEIM $ 207,000 42 RED 8G 6 X NE
    04/26/2005 BIG H $ 210,000 54 WHITE 8G 6 SW

    Typical attorney "I'll scare them" .... yah right ...

    Either step up - or step out .... but step.!

  • I really need some advice. I've been reading postings on this board and I know you guys can be brutally honest, but I'm going to be up front and admit that I am stupid - especially when I bought this car. Here's the story:

    I went to a local large volume Chevy dealership in Texas. I was desperate because I was driving a 13 year old mini-van that was about to die and I'm a single mother who almost lost her job because the van kept dying. Anyway, I went in to the used car department and was shown several Chevy Malibu's. I wanted a car that had extremely low miles and was obviously under manufacturer warranty.

    I found a 2005 malibu - pretty well loaded, with 1,700 miles on it. Cost offered to me at the time was $21,064 which seemed reasonable based on my research. I signed a purchase order with this price on it. However, I have really bad credit (1 prior repo and one that shows as a repo that is not) and I knew that even though I drove off the lot with it, I would be back to sign finance paperwork if the dealership could get me financed for that amount. I put down $3K cash and was given $1K for the piece of crap van.

    About 2 weeks later, I was on the dealerships website and found my car (VIN and all) with a selling price of $17,499. I called my salesman to complain. He said he would take care of it and that they had just found financing for me and that when I went to sign the papers that I would be pleasantly surprised at the price. This is where it starts to get sticky. I went to a local place to sign finance this time I am blindsided by the fact that I am not buying the car but leasing it. Once again I was desperate and could not be without a vehicle and quite frankly I loved the car. However, due to the fact that the finance guy focused entirely on the fact that this was a lease and also a lengthy discussion about how crappy my credit is, I did not notice the price (yes,very stupid I know). Signed papers quickly and was told that I could not keep copies of the paperwork and that they would mail them to me.

    3 weeks later, I get the papers and the price of the car had increased to $24,999. I pissed to say the least. I called the sales guy and he never called me back. At this point, I decided to drop the issue knowing that the odds were not in my favor as I had signed this contract with this outrageous price and quite frankly I am stressed enough between school, work and my child.

    Following week, I take the car in to another GM dealership as the "low coolant" light had been on (This other dealership is closer to my house and will shuttle me to work). Car was fixed with no problems. Fast forward to 3 weeks after that. I'm sitting in traffic in 90 degree Texas heat and the a/c cuts off. It does it several times over the course of 2-3 days. I take the car back to the second GM dealership and am told that the repairs are not covered under warranty as the damage is a result of a front end collision.

    Immediately, I go to the dealership I bought it from and they tell me that they ran a carfax report and that nothing came back and that they had their technician look at it and nothing is wrong. I almost lost it, but being in customer service I kept my cool. I argued with the service department for a good hour about the fact that something was really wrong with it. I talked to the Used car manager and he basically called me a liar. Bottom line, they called me a day later and agreed that there was a problem with the fuse in the lower fan and that it had to be replaced. They also advised me that the grill had been replaced but were at a loss to tell me why the grill might have been replaced if it was not in a collision.

    So now Im really upset that Ive been overcharged for a vehicle thats been in a collision. Thats when my salesman tells me that they sold the car to me for $14,999 (yes $10K less than what I am paying). They tell me to talk to the finance company about the price. I call the finance c ompany and they tell me that because my credit is so bad, that I had no choice but to finance with them and thatwhatever deal I had with the dealership is void since the dealership sold them the loan. This infuriates me further as I KNOW for a fact that had the dealership shopped the loan at the $14,999 price with me putting $4K total down, I would have been financed with Drive financial (I know this because before I bought the vehicle another dealership was putting together a deal for me with a car around the same price and they said Drive was going to finance for me. I chose the Chevy because it was a newer nicer car and I was willing to pay extra since it was newer and had significantly less miles). Anyway, dealership tells me theres nothing that they can do. I called the General Manager who never returned my calls.

    So, now Im upset because I'm paying $10,000 more than I should for a car that had been in a front end collision. So, my dad has worked for Mazda for 30 years as a shop foreman in NY and he tells me to call GM customer care. I call them and they call the dealership with me on the phone...they come back and tell me that not only had the grill been replaced, but the radiator, seatbelt, battery, both fans. I tell them that I am upset because there is no guarantee that if there is other damage that I am not aware of as a result of this collision, it will not be covered under warranty - not to mention that I would never have agreed to pay even $21,064 for a car that had been wrecked and that the value of the car is lower.

    So they asked me what I wanted from them. I'm a moron and I don't know, quite frankly I don't know what I'm entitled too. I just dont want to pay $10,000 more for a car that Im quite certain is going to have future problems (this is based on the track record so far and the fact that when I start the car it idles rough and once I thought it was going to die out). Anyone have any suggestions? People at work have told me that I need to ask for a replacement, but I don't know how that would work and what would prompt a dealership to do that?

This discussion has been closed.