Dealer's Tricks - bait & switch, etc.

ptmccain

Obviously, none of the car sales people on Edmunds would have to be reported, for, as they are always quick to remind us, they are above reproach, but in case you do run across a dealership or a salesperson who tries to pull a fast one on you, the FTC maintains an on-line complaint form you can use:

https://www.ftc.gov/ftc/complaint.htm

ptmccain

One of the best "on line" tutorials for buying a new car:

http://www.womanmotorist.com/handbook/process.shtml

im_brentwood

Good posts.

I also found a site where one can report copyright infringemnt.

Such a great service you provide

hahaha!

Bill

isellhondas

Ad nauseum...yawn!

ptmccain

It is interesting for persons who read these messages to notice how often salespeople and the "pros" will try to poo-poo any post that helps consumers find good information.

They want us to believe that they are essential to the car buying process, that we need their "expert" advice and that we need them to help us understand how paying closer to MSRP is really just fine since we are getting such "value."

Most here are in denial regarding the reality that the majority of their colleagues in this industry assume the attitude that it is a moral imperative to eek every last penny out of every customer and that whatever trick they need to resort to do so is acceptable.

If the "pros" here are honorable gentlemen who do not engage in such practices, good for them. I have never suggested that they are otherwise.

However, it is continually interesting to me to see how unwilling they are to concede that their industry is characterized by just the opposite of behaviors.

I'm grateful for Edmunds and other sites like it that permits buyers to gain the knowlege they need to overcome the problems with the car buying industry.

millerro3

As long as you keep twisting the words of the salespeople who post here, you will continue to have posts that seem to 'poo-poo' you. No salesperson posting in here would be stupid enough to do the things that you continually state they are doing. Every salesperson here has said that a well-informed customer is far easier to deal with than one who has no idea about anything. I will ask you one question, does your website tell you to shop all over a 500 mile radius and buy from the absolutely lowest price, even if it means driving 375 miles one way to save $100-200 over your local dealer? If it does, you are right, no salesperson would be stupid enough not to 'poo-poo' that website. That would be Stupid advice. If it does not, and it simply tells you some REAL BASIC info for buying a car and tricks to watch out for, than more power to it. It helps everyone out. Why don't you acknowledge that question, instead of saying how I'm whining and being a cry-baby, and why don't you prove me wrong by confirming I am not a mind reader and know what your next post will read

hingram

When I bought my last car, we kept the radio off so we could listen to the engine and other noises.

Turns out the radio was bad. HAHAHA!

hingram

Did it ever occur to you that you are boring and repetitive?

isellhondas

He doesn't care. He thinks that only us sales guys are tired of his repetitive and ongoing drabble. Even the hosts and non salespeople have politely and not so politely let him know that we are tired of the endless garbage.

But, he continues his boring crusade.

glenn384

I am not one of the salesman you profess not to hate, then rip. I am a car buyer just like you and so many other that frequent this site.

For someone to add to this forum your post content must contain one of the following:

1) News -- The first time your post may have qualified as fairly useless news, but anything that is posted dozens of times can, by definition, no longer be considered news.

2) Information -- Your first posts contained very little information, and less since.

3) Entertainment -- You are entertaining in the same way a deer fly buzzing around ones head is entertaining, your posts can most accurately be described as cyber water torture.

I hope others will just IGNORE you, thus allowing you to go away quietly...from now on, I will ignore you.

ptmccain

Here is yet another good Internet site providing helpful information for the car buying process:

http://www.e-cartips.com/dealer_tricks.html

millerro3

well said!

isellhondas

But based on the next post, it did no good at all.

And he doesn't know, Glenn that you are NOT a car salesperson. You are a long time poster who always takes a moderate position.

If he listens to ANYONE here, it should be you.

ccotenj

one wonders if all of these posters who post these things are really the same person, who has different profiles...

geez, otherwise, there are a lot of hateful and paranoid people out there...

-Chris

akrasnov

I am not a (car) salesmen but I think that anyone who finally came to regularly reading and posting to Townhall topics has long ago passed the stage of gathering useful information on how to buy a new car (including the useful and not so useful links PT is advertising). So why feed us with these links over and over again? Why won't you go outside, and make your propaganda to people who don't have internet and are going to buy a car? Dealership entrance probably would be a good place... I wonder what will be their response, when they are not constrained with Edmunds user agreement

Spyponder

I don't think sites like that which ptmccain has (ceaselessly) promoted make the buying process any better for anyone. By focusing consumers on how dealers allegedly cheat them, the site creates an adversarial atmosphere between the buyer and the dealer from the get-go. The paranoid buyer goes from dealer to dealer, convinced he is getting shafted, and when he finally makes a deal, he probably sends in a bad survey. Said dealers have their time wasted (probably on a Saturday) by these buyers and the one who eventually does sell them a car has to deal with this distrustful person down the road.

We all know there are shifty dealers out there, but a reasonably sharp consumer who has done their homework can usually get a reasonable deal, no matter what "tricks" the dealer tries to play.

wilcox

a dealer trick? I heard it on the radio this morning. Wouldn't it be great to go in and, because we are informed buyers, be able to negotiate a 2% over "invoice" deal with those kinds of finance terms? I wonder if they'd let the buyer keep the rebate?

audia8q

good post....as in most things an educated consumer can almost always do well. It's the fool who runs around spending a years salary or more and not have a clue. This type of consumer gets screwed by everyone, not just car dealers.

Rich

ptmccain

I will continue to post information that I think is useful. The links I post are "on topic." Despite the continued hostility from the "pros" I have resolved not to respond in kind and most generally simply to ignore them. You are free, of course, to respond however you wish, or to ignore me. But I'm not letting that stop me from sharing information I have found useful and others may as well.

So, if you others here choose to keep up the rhetorical bombasts and hostile/sarcastic and demeaning responses, go right ahead, that's your right.

millerro3

Why don't you start a new thread that can be a database for all of the websites that can give consumers buying advice? It would certainly help people out in that they wouldn't have to look all over this website to find your useful information. They would simply have to look in only one place! Woo-Hooo!

tboner1965

That is a good idea! Information is often more than useless if it cannot be found. Placing such links in the middle of topics with hundreds of posts that are soon to be closed is a good way for that information to get buried.

Cheers,

TB

jaclaz

I posted a lengthy thread on an alternative method I have used successfully for 12 years. Using this alternative I purchased an Integra, an Accord, a Civic and most recently a MitSu Eclipse. My method is most effective and easy to perform yet it is also one which requires study and sacrifice in color, specific options, and in terms of time and distance traveled. My method is for the economically challenged, those with little disposable income and might be looking to the used vehicle market not realizing there is a way to purchase new. I found that many of those lurking here and otherwise are looking at the near-luxury market. Edmunds seems to have an upscale buyer here. Well done Edmunds. Most of the industry folks here also are part of this strata and give useful dialog to these readers. My thread is still active #2125 "Forget Fleet.. Buy Below Wholesale." My audience as far as I can tell is not here at Edmunds. I enjoy this site as I enjoy many of the sites you mention. I also find many of the voices here helpful. I am respectful and polite in my dealings. I hope to recieve the same in return. This industry is my passion but I have learned not to become emotional in my passion. Well, other than the excitement of new car smell and shifting thru the gears while traversing winding mountain roads.

Yeah, watching the redline approach, the tires griping to the point of a slight sqeal. Ahhhhh, music... the CD player reviving me, bringing the whole experience to creschendo... Orgasmic!!

Good Luck to you and Happy Motoring to you all!
Jack

ptmccain

Click and Clack, the car talk guys on NPR radio feature this letter on their www site. I found it very amusing:

http://cartalk.cars.com/Mail/Letters/08-23/10.html

isellhondas

On several ocassions pc has been asked what he does for a living. Not by me...I could care less, his response was... None of Your Business!!

But...I think I know! He is retired.

Otherwise, how in the world would he be aboe to find the time to find all of these wonderful links he is so thoughtful to provide us with?

afk_x

If I were to guess about his occupation I would guess he has something to do with the site

www.carbuyingtips.com

wilcox

he lives in the North Eastern portion of the United States. His profile is so secretive...

glenn384

It has become obvious to me that you either;

1) really wanted to be in car sales, but were turned down for the job.

2) you need psychological help.

I would like to suggest the following sites for you. After all, you have been so kind as to find sites for me.


Starting your career in auto sales, by the Auto Sales Training Group:
http://www.autosalestraining.com/

Millenium sales, training in auto sales:
http://www.milleniumsales.qpg.com/

Autojobs.com Auto dealer jobs and sales traininghttp://www.autodealerjobs.com/team.htm

Understanding psycho analysis:
http://www.psych.nwu.edu/~hedlund/psycho.html

Psych-babble, by doctor Tom:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/


AARP article on useful ways to spend your time:
http://www.aarp.org/mmaturity/


enjoy

ptmccain

Here is more great information on dealer tricks:

http://www.marinternet.com/rknox/car2.html

ptmccain

Is it just me, or have the responses from our resident "pros" taken a decidedly puerile turn? I know they want me to divulge personal information about my occupation and location, but I do not post personal information to the Internet, period.

Besides, if I did, just think of how I would spoil their fun at hatching conspiracy theories.

Oh, by the way, I am surprised that our "pros" have time to respond to me on the Internet as much as they do. Being the excellent sales people that they are, I would think they would not have so much time to read Edmunds postings. Since customers are obviously flocking to their scrupulously honest dealerships I sure hope they are not missing out on sales opportunities to respond to my little posts.

A most puzzling situation, I think.

glenn384

I truly don't care if this response gets me thrown off the site!

If someone is so weak that they can be pressured into purchasing something that they don't want, or at a price they don't want to pay, they are a total innocent, or are an IDIOT.

You are not a total innocent, therefor you are an IDIOT. The problem is that an IDIOT doesn't know he is an IDIOT, because he is an IDIOT.

Get the picture?

pat455

If somebody is getting under your skin, the best thing to do is just ignore the person's posts. It's a tried and true tenet of message boards, as I'm sure everyone around here knows.

Give it a shot.

We all need to remember that the Participant Agreement says in part "I agree to disagree in a civil manner should I take issue with the statements of another Town Hall participant or any Edmunds.com, Inc. Editor or content contributor.  I understand that civility and respect underlie the success of an on-line community such as Town Hall.

I think the "respect" part is getting lost lately.

:-)

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

mmcbride1

I posted this in another topic, but it fits here as well.

http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/engaged/edmund.cgi?c=SUV&t=1257&q=372&A=y&f=1

jelliot

quoted web site:
"Guerrilla car consumers:
(1) don't buy cars, but if they do, they" . . .

Source: http://www.marinternet.com/rknox/car2.html

nname

I commend PTMCCAIN for hanging in there with the car salesmen pouncing on him.

These guys must have something to hide.

pat455

Please READ the Participant Agreement. When you signed up here, you agreed to "maintain a consistent identity". You are not allowed to register and post under multiple IDs.

Pat
Community Leader/Maintenance & Repair Conference

isellhondas

Good for you Pat!

BTW, I could care less what he does (if anything) for a living!

bobst

I may not agree with your attitude toward the automobile industry, but I think it fine for you to post messages expressing your point of view.

It seems that a lot of people want to attack you, and I guess some of these people are car salesmen.

I think a lot of sales people want to "dominate" others. They want to control a customer and convince them to purchase the product they want to sell. If you don't argee with the salesman, they immediately denigrate your point of view.

I think some of the people who have attacked you have been pretty obnoxious.

Bob

isellhondas

I have to say that I was disappointed by your post.

We have disagreed on many issues however, unlike mccain, you have always been a gentleman and have kept an open mind.

Encouraging a poster like mc seems to be out of character for you.

That's just my take for what it's worth.

ptmccain

Here is a great WWW site for car dealer advertising tricks:

http://auto-advisor.com/autoripoffs.html

ptmccain

Bob, thanks. But watch out, they will accuse you of actually being me.

: )

I apologize to the club for trying to post as "No Name." I was just having a bit of fun, in light of all the conspiracy theories that I am actually two people.

I am curiousthat the moderator was so quick to correct me (rightfully so), but I have not noticed the same degree of attention to those who have called me "IDIOT" in all caps, and have resorted even to crude and obscene humor to attack me.

I hope the hosts will be equally attentive to these situations!

: )

ptmccain

Here is another great site for a review of dealer tricks:

http://www.askanexpert.net/archive12.html

glenn384

Although I don't agree with you always, I hold your posts in the highest regard. Anybody who has always given his honest opinion on subjects, without resorting to logging in under an assumed name, will usually gain the respect of the other posters here. If, in my wildest imagination, You ever did sign in under a bogus login, you still would have enough honor to admitt your mistake when you were caught. I can never see you saying that you were just having a little fun.

keep posting, Bobst

btw- did you meet any salesmen on the trail?

ptmccain

Another useful site on dealer tricks, etc.

http://www.tex-net.net/FreeNewCarShoppingTipsReport.html

isellhondas

Can you explain in laymans terms?

ptmccain

I checked Infoseek. I am glad I finally know who I am. Thanks.

; )

glenn384

Go in peace, reverend

ptmccain

I'm sure the good reverend will be glad to know who he is too!

; )

mmcbride1

I guess I'm too dense to do it right. Do you just type it in the main search engine box, or if not, where?

ptmccain

Type it in the main search box. Apparently I have assumed holy orders.

You guys should listen to me now more than ever!

I'm enjoying this discovery of my alter-ego.

mmcbride1

If he'd unhide his email address, we might be able to tell.