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Thinking of buying a Porsche? Read this and think again!
Here is a story that I need to share in hope I can spare someone else the same experience:
My 1999 Boxster was recently diagnosed with the apparently very common intermediate shaft failure (IMS failure). The big surprise came when I heard the only way to fix this, is a complete engine replacement; $12000 for the part alone! Add the hours needed to put it in, and this is more then the cars current value.
The car has 62000 miles on it and had every scheduled service, done by Porsche certified shops.
When I approached Porsche to help me out, they had a good laugh and told me that the warranty expired 6 years ago. Even after I pointed to the "Implied Warranty of Merchantability and Fitness of Purpose" regulation in this country, and told them that nobody would buy a car knowing that it's engine will disintegrate after 62000 miles, they had nothing to say. I guess my fault for trying to keep the car in good shape and not driving it enough so that the failure would occur within the warranty period.
On their website, Porsche boasts with statements like:
“With the ‘Made in Germany’ cachet, and because of it” and “What counts here are quality, environmental protection, safety. And, naturally, fascination.”
Needless to say that I was fascinated until this happened.
I'm left with two options: donate the car, or get a lawyer. Neither is remotely what I'd like to do.
It is beyond me how Porsche can act this way. They want to make a profit out of this and sell me a new engine. An engine that I need to replace due to a design flaw that they built into it. They didn't even offer to give me a new engine at their cost.
I hope many people read this post and it shows them how Porsche treats its customers. I know, I'll never buy one again. And believe me, it hurts to say that: I loved to drive my Boxster.
Read up on the IMS failure and think again if you think of buying a Porsche. The user forums are full of people with similar stories. Don't make the mistake I made. Don't buy a Porsche!
See also: Edmunds Porsche Boxster Reviews, Dealer Inventories, and Pricing
My 1999 Boxster was recently diagnosed with the apparently very common intermediate shaft failure (IMS failure). The big surprise came when I heard the only way to fix this, is a complete engine replacement; $12000 for the part alone! Add the hours needed to put it in, and this is more then the cars current value.
The car has 62000 miles on it and had every scheduled service, done by Porsche certified shops.
When I approached Porsche to help me out, they had a good laugh and told me that the warranty expired 6 years ago. Even after I pointed to the "Implied Warranty of Merchantability and Fitness of Purpose" regulation in this country, and told them that nobody would buy a car knowing that it's engine will disintegrate after 62000 miles, they had nothing to say. I guess my fault for trying to keep the car in good shape and not driving it enough so that the failure would occur within the warranty period.
On their website, Porsche boasts with statements like:
“With the ‘Made in Germany’ cachet, and because of it” and “What counts here are quality, environmental protection, safety. And, naturally, fascination.”
Needless to say that I was fascinated until this happened.
I'm left with two options: donate the car, or get a lawyer. Neither is remotely what I'd like to do.
It is beyond me how Porsche can act this way. They want to make a profit out of this and sell me a new engine. An engine that I need to replace due to a design flaw that they built into it. They didn't even offer to give me a new engine at their cost.
I hope many people read this post and it shows them how Porsche treats its customers. I know, I'll never buy one again. And believe me, it hurts to say that: I loved to drive my Boxster.
Read up on the IMS failure and think again if you think of buying a Porsche. The user forums are full of people with similar stories. Don't make the mistake I made. Don't buy a Porsche!
See also: Edmunds Porsche Boxster Reviews, Dealer Inventories, and Pricing
1
Comments
From the accounts I've read, Porsche replaces the defective engine with a rebuilt one if your car is still under warranty. If your car is slightly out of warranty and the dealer service manager likes the color of your tie that day, Porsche may throw in only a few thousand dollars and you're stuck with the rest. And if you're like the poster above, you're simply stuck. Boxsters have been subject to some real head-spinning depreciation already, so when you add on the bill for an engine replacement, it's a major financial hit. A lot of people will have to pay more for a new engine than their car is worth.
Because Porsche has not addressed this issue publicly and will not grant potential victims an extended warranty or a free mechanical fix of the problem, many otherwise good used cars are now tainted. It is certainly affecting resale value. If you want to read more, just Google "Porsche" and "engine failure" or go to sites like rennlist.com or ppbb.com. After you do the free registration on the sites, you can search for engine failure information and find plenty of hair-raising stories.
My advice to owners looking for a Porsche built with the M96 engine: buy a Corvette. The folks at Chevy look like customer service gurus compared to the people at Porsche, where the attitude is that -- for $50,000 or more -- you should consider yourself privileged just to own one of their defective products.
To top it off, get this: I had a Porsche staff member reply to one of my posts about this issue in another forum, basically telling me to suck it up. If I REALLY love the car, I shut up and pay.
The reason I know it was a Porsche employee is, because the post had details about my claim that I never mentioned in the forum, so only I and the Porsche employees that worked on my claim had that knowledge. The person claimed to be a Willi x, but turned out to be lady with the name Heather.
I was speechless when I read the post.
The lady service advisor called me the next day and told me, repeatedly, that we "NEEDED" a 30,000 service. She priced it at nine hundred and eighty something dollars. She also said we needed a transaxle service for about three hundred fifty dollars. This car is garaged and is in MINT condition with only 25,900 miles on it (nowhere near 30,000 miles).
After thinking about it for a while, I called back and complained to the Service Manager that she had LIED to me about the car needing the 30,000 mile service. THe apologized for her telling me that and said that it was "recommended" that the service be done now. I rejected his advice and told them to do only the oil change and fix the "check engine light". They were to drop the car off at the house on Wednesday (about 2 miles away) and hide the key, where specified, when done.
I received a call on Wednesday saying we needed a new air filter due to the foam falling apart. I agreed to that. On Thursday they called and said the bill would be $541.61. I arranged for immediate payment over the phone and they were to take rhe car back to our driveway, (hiding the key in the pre-agreed location, in a waterproof zip lock bag). I told him that I'd have to drive 130 miles to come and put it away in the garage, but wouldn't be able to do it until Sunday. They said they wouldn't be able to drop it off (about 2 miles) until Friday morning. I told them that would be fine but reminded him to put the key in the waterproof bag (for abut the third time) and reminding him that I'd be driving 130 miles to come and put it in the garage on Sunday.
On Sunday, July 18th, I drove the 130 miles and (you guessed it) NO CAR. Frustrated with their lack of consideration ... in not at least having the courtesy to call and inform me that they hadn't delivered the car as promised ... I drove to the dealership to see if there was a phone number on the door that a person can call after hours. They don't have a phone number on display any where on the premises.
Monday, July 19th. The car has been in their custody for a 8 days and still no delivery and no courtesy to call and explain why.
Tuesday, July 20th. I finally called the Service Manager and asked why they hadn't delivered the car as promised. I told his that they'd cost me to drive 130 miles for nothing, and now I was going to have to do that again. The Service Manager then LIED to me, saying that I hadn't told him that I was coming to put the car away on Sunday. (I'd told him at least three times and reminded him that it often rains here when it's not forcasted to do so ... so reminded him to be sure the key was in a waterproof bag.) He hung up on me.
At this point, I called back and asked for the owner and was told by the sales department that he wouldn't be in. The saleman with whom I spoke was very courteous (unlike the lady service advisor and the Service Manager). He took notes with which to inform the management.
I doubt very seriously that I'll ever have the car serviced at this dealership again. I drive to Mobile, AL to have the Lexus serviced, and maybe that's the best choice for servicing the Porsche. That's a real shame. The facilities are great. The sales department is courteous. But the Service Department??? Well ... maybe the reader would do well to read the other Service Department Reviews and then ... make up your own mind.
Oh ... by the way ... the check engine light" The connection was not making good contact so they cleaned it (for a couple hundred dollars). Had I not stopped the Service Department from running "ABSOLUTELY WILD:" ... our bill would have been over $1500 (using the prices that they'd quoted me."
I agree with the review that said something to the effect that he thought they'd not be in business long if they kept up their rudeness and lack of professionalism. I expected more from Porsche. What a disappointment!!!
http://www.pmletter.com/blog/2010/07/05/porsche-rs-america-coupe-at-victorymotor- cars/ :shades:
Like all my cars, I was considering getting used too. But I always search the Net for issues cars have and also to see how the manufacturer and dealer backs up the car, expecially on major design defects (such as the CVT on the MINI Cooper, 2001-2006, basically a $6,000 repair for a defective transmission).
I won't go on further since based on your post I am passing on getting a new Spyder or a used Boxster.
Thanks again for the detailed post.
P.s. For other readers (since your post is so old) I am an attorney and while I understand your not wanting to retain counsel, this can probably be pursued as a manufacturing defect. As you say, engines should not require replacement at 60,000 miles.
The dealer and manufacturer know this and are simply seeing if you will go away.
Note: on some warranty law claims you can recover attorneys fees and costs, so there's an incentive for an attorney to take the case.
I'm thinking of buying a 2007 boxster (11000 miles). By this year and model, has Porsche taken care of the ims problem? It's the one thing holding me back. I guess I've been rather spoiled having had a Z-3 for the last ten years that hasn't given me a bit of trouble. Any thoughts would be appreciated.
thanks!
I traded the car in at a different dealership not letting them know anything about the issue, and their Porsche certified mechanic didn't spot it. I almost felt bad; almost. I'm driving a BMW now, and so far the experience is very different.
This whole handling of the IMS issue is bad for Porsche, ...for sure they lost your business forever, I'm sure.
I myself own 2001 Boxster S and am getting increasingly concerned about a potential IMS failure. I travel often and drive very little as it has only ~16K miles on it. I'm pondering whether I should sell it or not...
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I am sure there are a few out there but the forum make it sound worst than what it is.
I have had a few Porsche.
my Porsche mechanic is doing about 1 pre buy inspection for Porsche every week. He is working on many Porsche also. He have not seen 1 with IMS failure yet.
As to the original story, the car in question is worth far more than nothing. Parted out could net you more than a complete functioning vehicle. There are also plenty of mechanics who love to buy it and shove a junk yard m96 into it.
I'm considering buying a 2007 Boxster. Is the IMS failure possibility something you can detect in a pre-purchase inspection of the car?
For all of you current and former Boxster owners, there has been a class action lawsuit won dealing with the IMS failure. Only applies to USA citizens. Too bad it doesn't apply to future owners, but maybe it will be enough to get Porsche to start being nicer to their customers with IMS issues. imsporschesettlement.com/
Nonsense. This is a design defect that destroys engines. You've been lucky, fine. And the jerk comments are not needed.
There is a sucker born every minute
Yes posters will say there is failure rate with every brand., but should not happen when you pay for the premium brand with an arm and a leg
Look - if you want a Toyota, I suggest you buy one and you'll have many happy low cost miles ahead of you. If you want a true performance car that's a blast to drive, that's amazing in the corners and has incredible build quality, buy a Porsche. I will never buy anything else
If you want to have a thrill ride to impress your girlfriend/lover/friends/peers, then throw your ill gotten money after Porsche
The IMS bearing failures are mainly in the 2001 through 2004 motors; maybe as many as 8% have already failed or will eventually. The fix is to have that bearing upgraded before it goes. Later engines have a stronger design. The motor in my car was replaced under warranty at around 45K miles with the newer design. No matter what Porsche says, I'd never go over 5K miles between oil changes.
If you buy one of these cars used, you MUST have it checked out prior to purchase. The best you can do is to saw the oil filter in half and look for any bearing debris. If you see even a little, that engine will soon be toast, no matter how well it runs at the moment. In some cases, you can intervene at that point with a retrofit IMS bearing but that's expensive and if there's already debris in the system, there's still a risk.
If you see no sign of debris, then go ahead and buy it, but religiously change the oil every 3,000 miles, no matter what the "book" says. And keep your fingers crossed.
If the engine grenades on your early Boxster or 996, the car is pretty much totaled and not worth repairing.
FYI: The rebuild lasted until our beloved little silver bullet was totaled in a front end collision last September (2017) with just over 68000 miles total miles on the odometer. The airbags and crumple zones worked flawlessly, and I walked away unharmed.
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Best defense against IMS failure?
1. Change the oil every 3,000 miles. Saw open the oil filter and inspect. If you see anything suspicious, drop the sump and look further. Install a magnetic oil plug (no, Porsche doesn't give you one!)
2. Rev your engine as much as possible. Do not drive in 5th or 6th gear at 2200-2500 rpm--that's asking for it.
I think their hard core fans have already forgiven them or blown this under the carpet.
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Cayenne and the early Panamera had big problems too. The Porsche STEALERSHIPS have got
away with this at the customers expense. They had a recall on Transmission shift linkage for
about ten years with a free recall why would you carry on making them like that! Customer service
a joke they only care about the money. Are Porsche reliable NO! Are the expensive YES. Do they
loose massive value YES! Any repairs or service a total RIPOFF! German engineering a total joke!
Lambs to the slaughter when you buy a Porsche! You been warned!