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2010 Subaru Legacy 3.6 R



  • I have a new Legacy2010 - 3.6R was wondering if anyone has experienced any transmission slip issues when turning left or right? It does not seem to be an issue when going straight. Thanks.
  • marvinlee1marvinlee1 OregonPosts: 51
    Thoughts on 3.6r power. 1. The engine is a redesign and enlargement of the 3.0 and gained less on the bore diameter than on the stroke, thus limiting increased valve size potential. 2. With only a five speed automatic, good fuel economy becomes more difficult. Tuning an engine for economy sometimes hampers peak power development. 3. The engine has considerable power potential, the foregoing notwithstanding. Direct fuel injection is one option, as is a turbocharger. I assume that the block and crank can be upgraded at a cost. 4. Subaru may intend the engine for users seeking refinement and smoothness over raw power. 5. Greater power sometimes dictates stronger drivetrain parts, thus increasing cost significantly, which may become a marketing issue.
  • saedavesaedave Chicago, ILPosts: 694
    Fuel economy on a friends new 3.6R seems much better than my 3.0R; perhaps as much as 2 or 3 mpg better is indicated at 55 mph on the same road.
  • " I was really hoping to see the new legacy take on the likes of the A6, if only in the top end model in the lineup."

    I recently shop'd for an awd car to replace my Volvo XC70, and I ended up with a G37x.

    We looked at a bunch of cars, and narrowed our choices to Subaru Legacy 3.6, G37x, and XC60. the G won out in terms of its value / price ratio. for what it doesn't have, the Subaru is too expensive.
  • The Infiniti 37x is a very nice car but when you add sunroof, nav, deluxe sound to the base MSRP of 37K it is significantly more costly than a similarly equipped Subaru 3.6 Legacy Ltd. The 37x does have more standard features and a more powerful engine as should a premium car. I guess that I don't consider it to be any more of a direct competitor to the Subaru than is the Lexus awd.
  • saedavesaedave Chicago, ILPosts: 694
    If you value a comfortable ride, you would prefer the Legacy with its longer travel suspension. I'm presuming the G37's ride is similar to that of the G35 predecessor model.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    A couple of my neighbors have G37x sedans. They're quite nice, in fact it would probably be my choice in the near-luxury sport sedan class, given you get a Bimmer 3 competitor for a Bimmer 1 series price.

    Tough call. Spend a bit more, get the nicer interior and the Keep-up-with-the-Joneses badge.

    Or get an even better value in the Soob.

    I can imagine going either way with that choice, but honestly I think I'd get a manual Legacy GT over both.
  • marvinlee1marvinlee1 OregonPosts: 51
    The economy is better, though I am not sure why. Is there data on engine rpm at 60? Have overall gear ratios changed? Multiple possibilities come to mind. In my sales manual, the original economy data was updated with a later insert.
  • saedavesaedave Chicago, ILPosts: 694
    The economy is better, though I am not sure why

    One of the changes from the 3.0R to the 3.6R, I believe, is a new automatic transmission including both gearbox and torque converter. Even with the same overall gear reductions, efficiency could be different AND the 3.6 has better low end torque which if utilized optimally by the trans would improve efficiency. Another factor is different tires which alone sometimes adds (or reduces) mpg by as much as 1 or 2 mpg. Perhaps someone has compared the Bridgestones with the Continentals on TireRack's ratings?
  • marvinlee1marvinlee1 OregonPosts: 51
    Automatic: 1: 3.540; 2: 2.264; 3: 1.471; 4: 1.00; 5: 0.834; final: 3.083 Overall, top gear, (0.834 X 3.083) = 2.571222 Tire size: 225/50R17 Tire revs per mile: 804.6 Engine revs at 60MPH = 2068.8, or about 2100 RPM. Overall gear ratios are 1: 10.91382; 2: 6.979912; 3: 4.53093 4: 3.083 5: 2.57122

    A (non-standard) 225/55R17 tire would give (777/806.4) 0.96569724 of the 2068.8 engine speed at 60MPH, or about 1997.83 revs per mile at 60 MPH.

    Contrast the above with 2010 Toyota Camry XLE, which has P215/60/16 tires and has the following gear ratios:

    1: 3.300; 2: 1.900; 3: 1.420; 4: 1.00; 5: 0.713; 6: 0.608

    Camry XLE V6 Final Drive Ratio is 3.685. Overall XLE ratios are 1: 12.1605; 2: 7.0015 3: 5.2327; 4: 3.685; 5: 2.627405; 6: 2.25048

    At 795 tire revs per mile, the overall Camry V6 XLE engine RPM at 60 MPH, per gear, is: 1: 9667.5975; 2: 5566.19; 3: 4160.00; 4: 2929.75; 5: 2088.787; 6: 1789.13

    Comparing the revs per mile for the Subaru Legacy 3.6r to the Camry V6 XLE 3.5 shows this, Theoretical first, then road speed at 3000 RPM:

    Road Speed
    Subaru Camry at 3000 RPM

    1st 8781.26 9667.60 20.5 vs. 18.6
    2nd 5616.04 5566.19 32 vs. 32
    3rd 3645.59 4160.00 49 vs. 43
    4th 2480.58 2929.75 73 vs. 61
    5th 2068.80 2088.79 87 vs. 86
    6th 1789.13 N/A & 101

    Interpretation: First gear in the Camry is lower than in the Subaru, probably helping the Camry zero to sixty times with a more rapid launch. The Subaru engine runs about nine percent slower in first gear than does the Camry. Second gears are quite close. The Subaru engine runs slower in third gear. The difference of the wider first-to-second ratios of the Camry and Subaru is large. The Subaru second gear engine RPM is 63 percent of the first gear RPM. The Camry second gear engine RPM is 58 percent of its first gear RPM. Thus, the Camry engine not only runs slight slower in second gear than the Subaru (5566 versus 5616), it runs even slower as a percentage of the Camry’s engine RPM in first gear. The driver perception will be that of a greater drop in engine RPM for the Camry when going from first to second gear.

    The Camry and Subaru fifth gears are similar, where the Camry engine RPM is just under one percent higher. The greatest difference is in the Camry sixth gear, which acts as a true overdrive by lowering engine RPM about 13.4 percent, relative to the Subaru. Therein likely lies much of the Camry’s better highway fuel economy rating with the greater drag of the Subaru’s all wheel drive likely accounting for most of the remaining difference. The Subaru automatic transmission lacks a sixth gear and the Legacy 3.6R would benefit from having it. The Camry engine speed is 14 percent lower at 60MPH and the car uses 11 percent less fuel. Considering the fuel economy negatives of all wheel drive and higher top-gear engine RPM, the Subaru engine would appear to have high fuel efficiency.
  • marvinlee1marvinlee1 OregonPosts: 51
    The data table arrangement did not survive the posting process. In addition, it is possible, and even likely, that arithmetic and rounding errors have found their way into the numbers. Corrections and other improvements are welcomed, as are all comments, critical or otherwise.
  • ateixeiraateixeira Posts: 72,587
    I can interpret it just fine, thanks for taking the time to do that analysis.
  • bigfrank3bigfrank3 Posts: 426
    Nice analysis. I keep a spreadsheet of all Subaru gearing combos that interest me so I compared with your calculations. I have slightly different numbers for the 2010 Outback with the 5spd auto.

    It looks like the difference is in the tire size. The standard tire is a 225/60-17, aspect ratio 60 not 50. This gives revs per mile of 730. RPMs @ 60 = 1878, much more comfortable.

This discussion has been closed.