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High End Luxury Cars



  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    So . . . are you suggesting that the different results are due to different configurations? Comparing apples to oranges somehow?

    The last visit I had to the Porsche dealer a couple of months ago, I was surprised to find that there are now SO many options and variations to consider. It was insane.

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    So . . . are you suggesting that the different results are due to different configurations? Comparing apples to oranges somehow?

    I don't quite understand your question. Are you talking about the comparos in the mags?
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    sorry . . . I am.

    and I see where you didn't mean that. You must have been talking about an individual testing, not the rags.

    Anyway, time to go have some fun. I'll tell you about it all later.

  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,472
    Sounds to me like you really, really wanted that GS...but just could not afford it and had to settle for the 545!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • With the success of the Chrysler Pacifica and Mercedes R-Class, would it be plausible that lexus is considering to design their own version; after all, they are missing a few names in the suv/crossover line up, or does the RX already fill that 4-door, 3-row, 6-seater spot? (yes i know the RX does not have a 3rd row or even seat 6)

    Sedan SUV
    LS -> LX
    GS -> GX
    ES -> __
    __ -> RX
    IS -> __
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    The R-class has had disappointing sales.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I'll take your post as intended humor.
    If the 545 is "settling", please give me more! Heh! Heh!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Well, let's just say MB's venture into the minivan segment has been unsuccessful.
    I mean who needs a designer minivan?
    This should be a utilitarian vehicle.

    A lot of room and luxury, but the transmission doesn't shift smoothly, from what I read, and the mpg is dismal.
    In addition the rear doors are enormous and heavy so you can imagine what kind of damage the kids in the back will do to any vehicle unfortunate enough to be parked next to one.

    All of the above translates into one of the best leasing deals to be had today.
    You can lease this $58k minivan (R350) for only around $500 per month for 27 months or buy it for an astonishing (or should I say, embarrassing) $7000 below invoice for around $47k.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    and I see where you didn't mean that. You must have been talking about an individual testing, not the rags.

    Didn't mean what? Suddenly you're talking French and I'm talkin' Russian.

  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    So now when I pay Lexus a compliment, I'm worried. The IS has been a great success, there you have it. But to say it's going to be the car that kills the 3-Series is absolutely pathetic. Sales or no sales, the car WILL NOT outsell the 3. You can quote me on that. That sounds like Infiniti when they introduced the G35 and said that "BMW should afraid, very afraid." Well a host of quality issues and a staid interior stopped that fanfare.

    Then the new TL came, and altho a great performer, the transmissions drives the wrong wheels. The Caddy CTS was and is a close match, but the car has fallen off considerably from '02. The '08 CTS should correct all of it's shortcomings....

    Now we have the IS. A strikingly handsome ride with the sprint action of Jesse Owens, if not the moves of Barry Sanders. For '07, the VDIM is defeatable(altho not completely, says Lexus, it still intervenes if things get to frisky), this should make the car more tossable like the cars in it's class. The car is GOOD, but not 3-Series GREAT.......
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    "The car is GOOD, but not 3-Series Great..."

    Yeah. Someone here posted that the IS has better straight line motion than the 3 Series.

    Hey, sooner or later, ya gotta turn the wheels!
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    the car WILL NOT outsell the 3

    I would agree, provided that one ends "anytime soon" to the end of the sentence.

    The 3 does what it does very well. Moreover, it is entrenched in its position, and in people's minds. A competitor merely matching the 3 in capabilities isn't going to outsell it.

    But IF someone can produce something just a bit better, in overall handling/performance and/or reliabililty and/or styling, then over a 5-10 year timeframe, the 3 can be surpassed in unit sales, imho.
  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    Very possible. However, the wigs in Bavaria will halt all new plans to drive the 3 if anything gets within it's comfort zone. Well, Lexus scratched the surface with 306hp. BMW will counterfire with 310-hp twin-turbo I6 with 325lb-ft of torque, this will definetely take the car under 5 seconds. BUT: What does that mean for the M? We know it will be V8, but what power? Over 400, but nowhere close to it's big brothers M5/6's 500hp in fear of killing those cars.

    The 3 has survived all this time by delivering what it's customers want. The car was long the pinnacle of poor reliablilty, yet they bought the cars continually in droves. The car's redo in '00 erased most problems and thus have infused reassurance with it's customer base, and this is why the 3 only has a 4 day lot time.....
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    which can produce something "just a bit better" than the 3 Series in its price category, will be BMW with the next version of the 3 Series.
    Nobody else will do it. BMW owns the ELLPS segment.
    You can take that to the bank.
  • drfilldrfill Posts: 2,484
    Hemi, when did I say the IS would "kill" the 3-series?

    If you would read my last post, it clearly stated that the IS is BMW's greatest challenge yet. That's all.

    I have tempered enthusiasm for the IS. I still want to see the convertible due next Summer, and the manual tranny for the 350.

    The Next G35 is not to be overlooked either!

    When the IS is fully realized, and the G35 reinvented, they should both be putting out 75k units, which will be similar to competing units from BMW. The other 15 variants will give the 3 higher total numbers, doh.

    If you are going to TRY and quote me, at least copy and paste, to avoid such errors in the future. :sick:

    Thank You.

  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    You know what they say, "Never say never". And if the Germans are thinking that, they are complacent and complacency will only make it easier for someone else to take the top spot.

    BMW may own the segment now, but they may not always.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    BMW is far from complacent. They are always improving their vehicles' driving dynamics, which is why the others won't catch them.
    Most 3 Series reviewers state the current 3 Series is better than ever. The car continue to evolve.
    They just have to keep Bangle away from those tail lights. :(
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    They are always improving their vehicles' driving dynamics, which is why the others won't catch them.

    All auto companies are always improving their products. But the rate of improvement can vary, and there is NO assurance that BMW's rate of improvement will always equal or exceed the competition's.

    Before Lexus introduced the RX, didn't it look like the ML dominated its segment?

    Didn't MB probably think at one time (like 1988) that it had nothing to fear in the S segment?

    Didn't Cadillac at one time dominate some of its segments?

    BMW and the 3 are not invincible. Maybe the 3 will be at the top of the heap 10 years from now. Or maybe not.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I hope I'm still here to find out.
    If I'm wrong, I will admit it right here, 10 years from now.
    Should be right around that time Tagman trades in his Lotus. :)
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    They just have to keep Bangle away from those tail lights. :(

    Whatever happened to your praising Bangle for boldly going where no one has gone?

    I haven’t criticized BMW styling in a while. I’m thinking about stoking up a few of my rants.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Most 3 Series reviewers state the current 3 Series is better than ever. The car continue to evolve

    My fellow BMW fan I respect your opinions but the real question is what will the 3 evolve into?

    In order to discover where it is going you will have to look at where BMW's R & D $$$ are going. The link below is a good indicator where not only the BMW 3 series is going but where the entire BMW productline is going: - - - st-driver-assistance-r-d-developments

    Their R & D is focused on "Driver Assistance Technologies"?

    Ain't that a hoot!

    The Ultimate Driving Machine is becoming the Ultimate Rider's Machine with minimal involvement from the driver.
    If this is the future of the BMW 3 then I can assure you the future 3 will not be in my garage.
  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Personally I think Bangle looks much better in wagon form than sedan form.

    Based on my unbiased opinion the 5 series Touring wagon is the best looking wagon on this planet. And ofcourse the second best looking wagon is the 3 series Touring.

    Only Bangle can make a wagon look this sexy.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    My fellow BMW fan I respect your opinions but the real question is what will the 3 evolve into?

    Excellent question, isn't it? And what will the Lexus IS evolve into? More power? Better handling?

    Oh, I'm sure no one here thinks that the IS can be any threat to the mighty BMW, and so far I would agree that it isn't much of one, but my crystal ball tells me that the future will be different, and Lexus will step on BMW territory.

    When the LS first came out, who would have thought that it could possibly impact the almighty S-Class the way it did and does?

    I am absolutely a Eurocar fan, but I have tremendous respect for the marketing capabilities of Lexus in this country. The Lexus/Mercedes lesson is one for the history books . . . we either learn from it or we don't.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Go back and read all my posts on the new 3 Series.
    I have written many times that I find his work on the 3 Series tail lights hideous.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Well, I must agree with you-if BMW corrupts its mission with more driver assist technology-(its adaptive steering has widely been proclaimed to be "a disaster")-such as MB has done with the new S Class where I hear the car can practically drive itself, I would no longer be interested.
    This is fine for Lexus and MB, but would be a total shame if BMW caves.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 875
    mentioned this before on here, but I "think" the biggest competition for the 3 in the future is going to come from Audi. The next body style [09, or 2010 I think] is supposed to come with improved weight distribution and the usual Audi brilliance.
    Competition is a good thing me thinks.... :P
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    "Only Bangle can make a wagon look this sexy."

    I don't know about that. I believe the Audi A6 Avant looks pretty sexy!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    If anyone can do it, I would have to concede, Audi might.
    Not that they will.
    Unless Porsche decides to enter the ELLPS arena.
    Other folks around here listed reasons why they won't.
  • Some people tend to disagree on the sucess of the R-Class, I just happen to think it depends on where one lives. But I think those people did not see that i also mentioned the Chrysler Pacifica which is more successful than the R-Class because it costs about $30-40,000 less. And though the pacifica is cheaper it still has the same basic features, heated rear seats, 3 rows, 6 seats, & a flat folding 3rd row. They both offer the same nice alternative to the minivan. So let me rephrase what i said before. Would Lexus consider venturing into that market with a new crossover, or does the RX already take that spot?
  • guestguest Posts: 770
    Mercedes and Chrysler are answering a question nobody is asking.

    How far do you take the station wagon (Without calling it a station wagon)?

    I would put more R&D into a super minivan, which Americans seem more partial to, than a super station wagon, which Americans think of a relics that are remembered for wood paneling and seats that face backwards.

    The RX doesn't need to change, or adjust to any other vehicle, particularly the R-Class.

    What Lexus should do is make a bigger RX, like the HPX concept. The next Infiniti FX will only get bigger, and the SRX is already that size.

    Truck chassis are in decline, and Lexus has a nice bullet still in their holster! :shades:

    I'd say Lexus knows what their doing with the RX. Anyone care to disagree?

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