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High End Luxury Cars



  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Why not? You don't find them interesting? Of course if you don't want to talk about them, you certainly don't have to! ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    steve - the part of your post that indicates that Lexus owners might own or be interested in more exciting cars makes good sense to me.

    But, the way you characterize the Benz and the BMW and the Audi doesn't do you any good, because it represents you very poorly.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    If you are going to quote from one of my posts, would you kindly press the "reply," so I can read the entire post you are taking this quote out of context, instead of having to search back to find it.
    It's called "common courtesy." :)

    When the warden allows me to "venture out" as you call it, I will repeat what I already posted:

    It has been my observation that approximately 70% of LS drivers are senior citizens. On the highway I have seen many of them driving too slowly even though they have this big powerful V-8 at their disposal.

    It's what I have found. Sorry if it frustrates you. :surprise:
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,471
    Yep, that Audi makes some of the finest taxi's in all of Africa. The LS is for the U.S. only. It's called exclusivity!!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • No I don't and by the way look at it yourself. How many posts have been posted under maserati, aston martin, rr, mm, bentley, ferrari in the past.

    Very very few. Infact some of them dont even have a thread yet. They are not relevant to any online forum.

    Porsche, Lexus, bmw, benz, thats another matter. They are mainstream and many forum users can afford them.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Let me just note that one poster represents only one poster and ascribing the views expressed in any one post to a group of people is unrealistic and unfair.

    We really, really need to get away from the "us vs. them" attitudes in here. Those attitudes have been the direct cause of the difficulties we've over the last month or two.

    Tagman, although I am replying to you and want you to hear me, I'm also speaking to everyone else here, anyone who identifies himself as a member of one camp or the other.

    Let's let it go. This is not a war. It's (supposed to be) a conversation about the cars that we all admire - in varying degrees and of course we don't have to admire all of them - instead of a "mine is bigger, um, better than yours" brawl.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Talk about whatever upper end vehicle you find of interest - or don't - your call.

    Numbers of posts in any given discussion don't tell you whether you admire a car, do they?? Those numbers certainly do not mean no one can discuss them here. :confuse:
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    note the edit
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Thank you, but what I said needs to be said. But thanks.
  • It has also been my observation that more senior citizens drive S-class and A8 slowly than LS owners.

    Also, you dont have to search back your post since the link to your post from which I quoted was in my post itself so its a useless argument, nor was my reply out of context.

    The fact is, your assertions on LS are just plain wrong and you are projecting your frustrations on me and accusing me in turn of being frustrated. Its pitiful but true.
  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    Agree that categorizing owners by the their cars is not completely reliable. As you say, the same guy might drive a LS430 to the office and go blasting around in a 911 on the weekends. (But not too many of them, I suspect.)

    Nonetheless, anyone but a true believer knows that the 430 is a vanilla, uninvolving car compared to an Audi or a BMW. Who cares? We all pick and choose what we like. But why pretend that a Lexus is other than what it is?
  • Well, you certainly can discuss. After all you are the boss here!
  • I have driven all four. A8, 7, LS and S and quite frankly I dont see much difference in terms of agility.

    quattroporte is very different. You can instantly sense it.

    But the german trio and LS are too close. On a scale of 0-100 I would rate

    70 Quattroporte

    60 S-class
    60 7
    58 A8
    57 LS 430
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I do agree. I have historically been careful to not claim to be a member of a "camp", but I do think my views themselves indicate my preference for European vehicles, and that alone seems to get me placed in a "category" or on a "side" . . . but I am typically known to be moderate and fair and balanced, with maybe an occassional jest, regarding the Lexus vehicles and those that prefer them.

    The main thing, Pat, IMO, is to be more respectful of all of our differences. You've got my support and I hope that any others that read this realize that I stand for tolerance and appreciation and respect of those that have different views.

    I would love to see this HELM forum as one that is not only about some of the best cars in the world, but contains posts made by some of the classiest people in the world as well.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Okay Steve. Let's just agree to disagree.

    Anyhow, I am glad you found your way back to this board and even if we sometimes disagree, I will look forward to reading your future posts and having more spirited debates with you. ;)
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    You are correct.
    I sometimes catch myself doing just that.
    While the views I represent are my own, I am occasionally guilty of a "some of us" or a "we."

    I will attempt to edit myself more carefully in the future.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    I would love to see this HELM forum as one that is not only about some of the best cars in the world, but contains posts made by some of the classiest people in the world as well.

    We've been there before and there's no reason we can't get back there. :)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    No problem - let's just go forward - and upward - from here. ;)
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I think that we've already had some Maybach discussions in this forum that proved to be interesting, and that if Pat officially cleared the runway, we might get a little more discussion from time to time in the future.

    Also, the heading will soon need to be updated to include the LS460 and then finally the LS600hL, or for simplification, the full Lexus LS line.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Not too far upward.
    I get nosebleeds! :)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    we are not here to talk about other posters nor are we here to talk about what is going on in any other discussion. If you have a problem with a posted message here or in another discussion, please email me.

    Yeah, a couple of posts met Kirstie's magic vanishing potion that she licensed to me.
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,471
    Does anyone actually have any credible sources of info concerning average age of certain auto owners? I've eaten quite a few hats before but I will gladly eat another one
    if the age of Mercedes drivers isn't older than Lexus drivers.

    I am not trying to start a war, I am just curious. Anything other than opinion out there?

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    A number of months ago, there was a chart posted here that represented the average ages of drivers of most vehicles.

    Maybe someone here remembers the source.

    Bottom line . . . there IS some credible data on this, and BTW, the average age of the MB driver IS older than the Lexus driver, but that is likely due to the demographics economic curve.

    Most drivers tend to get older in ratio with the increase in price of the vehicles, with some very interesting exceptions, however.

  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Here you go:

    Car buyers' median age by brand:
    Division Median age
    Rolls-Royce 62.9
    Lincoln 62.8
    Buick 60.8
    Mercedes 58.7
    Chrysler 56.4
    Mercury 55.1
    Cadillac 53.4
    Jaguar 49.8
    Lexus 49.4
    BMW 46.1
    Ferrari 45.6
    Hummer 45.6
    Acura 45.3
    GMC 44.4
    Saab 44.4
    Pontiac 43.4
    Porsche 43.4
    Dodge 42.9
    Chevrolet 42.7
    Honda 41.9
    Toyota 41.9
    Infiniti 41.6
    Mitsubishi 41.3
    Volvo 40.3
    Ford 39.7
    Land Rover 38.9
    VW 38.7
    Jeep 37.6
    Nissan 35.1
    Mazda 34.6
    Suzuki 33.2
    Isuzu 32.7
    Subaru 31.7
    Saturn 30.9
    Hyundai 29.8
    Kia 28.1

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    syswei - good work! :)

    But watch the data get twisted.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I stand by what I say.

    Where I live, about 7 out of 10 LS drivers are senior citizens.
    I never mentioned the average or median age of the entire Lexus brand, did I?

    Your statistic has no validity to what I posted, because this statistic going across the brand involves a lot of SUV sales-many of which are being driven by young, affluent Moms- what's their average age-about 34?
    This is a huge market for Lexus and will skew the average or median age significantly downward.

    Therefore, I have no problem with the average age being 49. I can accept that.
    What would it be if you take out SUV and IS sales?
    A lot higher!

    Even Autospies photographed the demographic target sign for the new LS recently and it was, I believe 55-60.
    Good luck Lexus with that!

    Whether you like it or not, more affluent older people drive the LS than younger people of significant means.

    Sorry, but that chart is totally inapropos what I am talking about.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Where I live, about 7 out of 10 LS drivers are senior citizens.

    Not where I live.

    What point are you trying to make, anyway? Are you saying that LS owners on average are older than S owners? 7 owners? If the former, I disagree. We have no model-specific data, as you point out. But by observation, "where I live" if there is a difference between the age of the average S and LS driver, it would be that the S driver is older. I think the S appeals more to "old money" and the LS to "nouveau riche". All just my opinion.

    If you mean that LS owners on average are older than 7 drivers, I would agree, based on personal observation and simple knowledge of the market positioning of the respective models.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    The point is the Lexus target age for the LS is a lot higher than the median age across the brand.
    That's gotta tell you something? No?
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Sure, it tells us that the LS is higher priced and less sporty than the rest of the lineup and hence attracts older customers on average than the rest of the lineup.

    But that would be true about the S, 7, A8, etc., relative to their lineups.

    So what is the point? Did anyone here ever say that the median LS buyer is 49?

    I actually had been only skimming the thread of late, noted Tagman's request for the table, and found it for him. Didn't make any claim that it represented the LS specifically.

    I have no problem with a viewpoint that the average LS buyer is older than the average Lexus buyer. But if you are trying to criticize the LS or its buyers by saying they are "old", I would respond that imho they are no older than S buyers.
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