Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

High End Luxury Cars



  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Thanks for this informative link, Ivan_99.

    The reviewer seems to have more of a bone to pick with Lexus as a brand than actually contributing anything meaningful about the 2007 LS itself. Sounds like he had this review written before he even approached the vehicle.

    He writes "The brand still ranks near zero Kelvin on the prestige thermometer" and "Compared to luxury brands like Mercedes Benz, Cadillac(!), BMW and Audi, Lexus has the emotional appeal of a public golf course."

    If you're going to review a car, tell us about the car and don't use a review as a thinly disguised personal vendetta against Lexus.

    Given this reviewer's pre-conceived distaste for Lexus, the vehicle didn't stand a chance.

    Let's hope that we can soon read some unbiased comprehensive reviews of the 2007 LS. We don't need biased hatchet jobs.
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    We don't need biased hatchet jobs.

    Well at least we have these forums as a respite from such extremes.

  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    Heh heh! Good one, designman!
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    The big difference here is I am free to express my opinion on Edmunds.
    I'm a BMW person so what I say is colored by that point of view. It's expected.

    I am not being paid by a newspaper to give a supposedly unbiased review which turns out to be nothing more than a personal vendetta against Lexus.

    I came away with absolutely nothing from that review except that the reviewer is biased against Lexus as a company.

    The LA Times should not have printed it.
    It is a disservice to their readers who are about to shop this vehicle.

    There is a higher principle at stake here. It's called journalistic integrity.

    I may personally dislike the LS, but I will surely defend the right of someone who wants to shop this car to be able to read a comprehensive, unbiased review that will help him in his decision-making.

    If I am running a newspaper and one of my music critics hates Verdi, why would I send him to review Aida?
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,477
    Bravo, HP. I said essentially the same thing about the terrible Q7 review. I don't particularly like the looks of the Q7 but I hate vendetta style hatchet jobs.

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    The LA Times should not have printed it.

    I would be perfectly happy if newspapers didn't have auto reviews. Most of them register zero on my Richter scale.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Better things will come when Car and Driver and Road & Track finally review the vehicle.
    Perhaps AutoWeek will review it in October. If I see a date, I will post it.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I'm marking this day on my calendar.

    headline news: hpowders stands up for OBJECTIVITY!


  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    From BMW Magazine:

    "Strategic Vision's Total Quality Index is a measure of new vehicle owner satisfaction. It asks buyers to rate all aspects of the ownership experience, from buying and owning to driving."

    "For the second year in a row, BMW's 7 Series topped the Luxury Car segment of SVTQ Awards. BMW repeated as the highest scoring brand, its seventh time to do so in eight years."

    Always good to read, although I have never heard of SVTQ.

    Has anyone heard of these guys?

    Probably 4 BMW middle-management guys sitting at a table.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I know you get my point and are just having a little fun with me.

    I can't believe the editor allowed the Lexus hate-speech to be published under the guise of a "review."
  • houdini1houdini1 Kansas City areaPosts: 7,477
    Well....maybe now!

    2013 LX 570 2016 LS 460

  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I know you get my point.

    Yes. And you know I agree with it . . . to a point. Journalists do have a little subjective latitude, as it goes with the territory. But a blatent biased misuse of that latitude is shameful, IMO.

    Even the car rags are sometimes guilty, and I have to wonder why.

    As I've said before . . . stay with the truth and the facts please.

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    As I've said before . . . stay with the truth and the facts please

    Unfortunately that is never ever going to happen here or in the auto rags. Truth and facts can only prevail when passion is not involved. Unfortunately in the case of autos most auto reviewers (professional or unprofessional) view cars quite passionately and their opinions will be tainted by their biases.

    Show me any auto reviewer that does not have any bias whatsoever and I will show you a reviewer who views cars with complete indifference. Such an indifferent and rational reviewer will end up working for Consumers Report and it is those kind of reviews that I tend to avoid.
  • greasykid1greasykid1 Posts: 336
    My reference to high maintenance and increased price refer ONLY the Bluetec emmission systems. Present data states that the urea system will have to be serviced regularly.Present intervals mentioned are 10,000 mi.

    Also the implimentation of urea etc.will increase vehicle costs. This info was covered in detail in a recent copy of the MBA club "STAR" magazine.
  • sysweisyswei Posts: 1,804
    No poster on this forum (myself included) is truly unbiased, so how can we expect journalists to be any different?

    Of course some are more biased than others.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    Maybe I'm misunderstood. As I said, there is going to be some latitude. This is due to the bias and passion you speak of. I expect it.

    What I don't like is false statements or twisted data.

    That's different, unacceptable, and THAT is what I was referring to.

    Yes, I agree that the unemotional reviewers belong at Consumer Reports, but I'd swear, IMO, even those guys are biased, too!

  • deweydewey Posts: 5,251
    Yes I understand.

    With this kind of negative bias from LA Times is it any wonder why GM threated to pull ads from their publications?

    Although I dont think Toyota is going to make the same threat to LA Times.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    I have never seen such blatant prejudice against an auto company in a vehicle review as this guy expressed in the LA Times against Lexus.

    (Sorry Dewey-most of this is not directed at you.)

    Whether we as posters or whether professional auto reviewers are biased or not completely misses the point.

    Whether I agree with the reviewer's comments about Lexus, the company, also misses the point.

    This guy was using the guise of a review as an excuse to spew vitriol against Lexus the company, when he should have been telling us about the brakes, steering and handling of the 2007 Lexus LS460 to the best of his ability, biases or not.

    Anyway, enough said. Time to move on.
  • tagmantagman Malibu, CaliforniaPosts: 8,441
    I'm sorry, but while I agree that Dan Neil went out on a biased limb, I don't see the review as the horror story you are portraying it as. Bad journalism? YES! Horror Story? NO!

    I do think these kinds of reviews are more common than you are suggesting, and we will continue to see more of these biased views, some for the positive as well as the negative. Collectively they paint a more colorful picture, IMO.

    Heck, some of these reviews in the past have been so overly positive that they have made me wonder if the author is on the auto manufacturer's payroll. And others have been nothing more than a re-print of the manufacturer's press release.

    When the dust settles, and many more reviews are in, the Lexus LS460 will be much better understood, and we will all realize that the vehicle has legs to stand on. Ultimately we will all test drive it, and then we will truly know for ourselves what the LS460 really is.

    In the meantime, I'm not about to freak out over a few overly biased reviews (positive or negative). It's nothing new as far as I'm concerned. And, YES, it is time to move on.

  • blkhemiblkhemi Posts: 1,717
    The good thing about the Bluetec is that MB will roll-out a CDI-exclusive scheduled and unscheduled maintenance program for the emissions system ONLY. The rest of the car will have scehduled maintenance free.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Not a horror story. Just a platform for his anti-Lexus pokes.

    Telling us that "Lexus ranks near zero Kelvin on the prestige thermometer"-what's that got to do with a review of the 2007 LS? it has no place there and demonstrates that this reviewer cannot be taken seriously.

    Tell me if the brakes are grabby, not that "Lexus has the emotional appeal of a public golf course."

    If these out of place comments annoyed me, I can't begin to imagine what Lexus lovers must feel.

    -273 degrees celsius is pretty cold even for me. :surprise:
  • warthogwarthog Posts: 216
    As a devil's advocate, I would point out that the reviewer said he had no real opportunity to drive the car, so he can't be expected to talk about brakes, steering, etc. However, from the gee-gaws on the car, it does seem obvious that Lexus is bidding to be the big dog in the HELM category, so the reviewer's observation about its perceived prestige is warranted. I mean really, automated parking in a football field-sized parking space, taking well over a minute to accomplish? Gimme a break. This car, fully loaded, is clearly marketed to The Donald wannabees and not to the rest of us.
  • dandrews1dandrews1 Posts: 184
    I agree totally - but the Porsche sales guy wouldn't let me offroad the Cayenne when I was test driving it.

    On the other hand, the Land Rover sales guy grinned from ear to ear when I asked to off-road it... so I took a brand new 2006 LR3 HSE demo in behind some houses that were being built in a new development near the dealership.. the area where the bulldozers and service vehicles go... anyways, it had rained that morning, and it was all mud and ruts and sloppy, slippery goodness....

    It does accelerate as well as pretty much any other HELM SUV - considering it weighs in around 5700 lbs(depending on options), but it can go places where few others dare to tread.

    Hence the reason why I now have a new Land Rover, instead of a new Cayenne, or BMW X3/X5 sitting in the driveway.

    Thinking of doing the Moab, Utah Land Rover experience soon too... looks spectacular!

    [Side Note] I didn't buy the demo. ;)

    After I got back into the sales center, the sales guy said that while we were out, some couple had been dealing with the other sales guy and had bought the demo... I brought it back coverred in mud everywhere - even over the roof, and buried in 24" of muck up the sides of the wheel wells. You shoulda seen their faces when I drove back on the lot with it! Absolutely Priceless.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Hmmm...I guess the same could be said about Mercedes and Chrysler. Why won't some people admit that? Some seem to be obsessed with this notion concerning Toyota/Lexus but they must get nervous when they see the R7 sitting alongside a Pacifica.

    Because there is nothing to admit, Chrysler and Mercedes don't have a image problem between the brands like Toyota and Lexus does. Only the ill-informed would think a Mercedes is a Chrysler in better clothes. Similar in design and them, but nothing else and one isn't an extension of the other. Unlike the R and Pacifica, the LS and Camry look the same inside and out, right down to their dash designs.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'm not sure why this is big news now, it has been known for months that the Bluetec wouldn't be sold in all 50 states. That is why MB has been saying 2008 because by then maybe the EPA will approve the urea injection that makes up Mercedes' "Adblue" system.

  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    I'm sure that you are correct about Bluetech;however it will have a more complicated emmissions system that will incease the cost of the car and be more expensive to maintain. Practically the same performance and milage as the current CDI.

    Yes, but only a few dollars hardly worth mentioning and the technology will be cheaper for MB to spread across literally their entire model range compared to getting the old I6 to meet new standards.

  • brightness04brightness04 Posts: 3,151
    We are talking about cars, not interior decorations, furnitures or toy cars. What matters most for cars is platform and drive train. MB and Chrysler _is_ (one and the same company) doing a lot of platform and drive train sharing . . . probably more to come in the future simply because that's how economy of scale works. LS and Camry are certainly far more different from each other than, say Crossfire from SLK.
  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    "The LS and Camry look the same inside and out, right down to their dash designs."

    Well, I've seen the new Camry and from what I saw of the new LS on MotorWeek, the LS is far better looking than the Camry.
    It isn't even close, even though there is a distinct family resemblance.
  • merc1merc1 Posts: 6,081
    Well, I've seen the new Camry and from what I saw of the new LS on MotorWeek, the LS is far better looking than the Camry. It isn't even close, even though there is a distinct
    family resemblance.

    True, but as you state the resemblance is there, which was my point, a family resemblance that shouldn't be there if Toyota and Lexus truly have seperate design teams/facilities. Same thing with their interiors. Same layout/design, but of course the LS takes it up quite a few notches.

  • hpowdershpowders Posts: 4,301
    Yes the resemblance is there. That's for sure.
    The Camry, Avalon and LS obviously come from the same design team.

    However, the design dramatically improves as one proceeds from the Camry to the Avalon. The leap isn't as great as one proceeds from the Avalon to the new LS, IMO.
Sign In or Register to comment.