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Mazda Millenia



  • PF_FlyerPF_Flyer Pennsylvania Furnace, PAPosts: 8,286
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  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Quote "you sort of berated me for that".

    Sorry you took it that way. I took your previous statement to mean that Mazda had a serious problem with that light as opposed to other manufacturers. I don't think that is true from what I have read on other forums and the Check Engine Light forum of Edmunds. It seems this is a problem all the way from Kia up through BMW and Mercedes, not especially to Mazda.

    Anyway, my wife said the one in her Oldsmobile is back on, as well as the chime "bonging", and I will check it this evening. Any bets it isn't the brake fluid level again? I'll gladly make that 2 to 1 odds. Now that is a silly function for a Check ENGINE light, let alone the chime which won't even let you have the door open with the radio running even in the auxiliary switch position. Enough talk about the Oldsmobile, but just pointing out it isn't only a Mazda problem.
  • Hey, I have an interesting probelm. I have a 96 2.3l and my TCS, TCS off, and ABS lights are all on. This problem started last winter when it would come on when i intialy began to drive but when I turned it off and restarted it would go away. But now it seems to be on full time. And I've noticed a loss of power as well.

    The dealer says i need to repalce the ECU, and the abs sensor. I am utterly tired of the Mazda dealerships. It seems that waht they do best is reaplce parts.

    I checked the TSB list and there is a TSb for this problem.

    Any help would be great.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    It appears that all of these are tied together. You might want to check for a short in your wiring harness or from the harness to the TCS switch. Also check the fuse to make sure that it is good.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    Since everybody is so talkative I thought I might toss this general information out about timing belts. This is according to the 2002 workshop manual.

    It says for normal driving conditions for US cars:
    2.5L (KL) engine to replace every 105,000 miles or 168,000 km.
    For the 2.3L (KJ) engine replace every 60,000 miles or 96,000 km.

    Now for Canada, Puerto Rico, and unique driving conditions in the US it states the same thing with one exception for the KL engine (2.5L). It says that "if the vehicle is operated in cold districts (below -18 degrees C {0 degrees F}), replace the timing belt at 96,000 km (60,000 miles)."

    Since the timing belt item keeps coming up I thought I would put this out there.
  • Aughh!! No problems all spring and summer until a few weeks ago when the engine tumbled on startup. I posted about that at the time and the light went out after several days and about 6 or 7 cold starts over that time period. It happened again yesterday, started up a warm engine at the grocery store and it didn't tumble per se, it ran rough for a few seconds then cleaned itself up so to speak. Light flashed for a few seconds to get my attention I guess, then stayed on. I expect I will have to live with it for next few days. As before, car ran beautifully afterwards, responding to the gas pedal instantaneously, zipping in and out amongst the little old blue haired ladies in their Civics, etc. While I'm here, has anyone checked into the Tuesday night free-for-all? I checked in the first night (two weeks ago) and thought I had fallen into a childish, immature ranting of 12 year olds. Maybe it was just the timing, maybe it was and is just me. Maybe I'm just too old for that sort of thing in general. Somebody needs a nap!! Hey, that would be me.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    If you can get a code number on your engine light problem I would try and look it up for you in the workshop manual.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    When AutoZone read my code, there was nothing to look up. It gave the code number as the main display, but was also spelled out across the bottom of the display in plain English.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    I had assumed by your post on your check engine light that it gives you what is causing the problem. I was talking about a possible solution to the problem. This would be like what I listed for you. This does not mean you can fix it yourself, but it may give you some knowledge if you decide to take it in to get it fixed. As opposed to letting the dealer or anybody else jerk you around and replace everything under the sun and still not fix it. All while they are bleeding you dry.

    Since a number of people are having this problem with the check engine light going on I was wondering about how many miles everybody has on their cars when this starts happening? It appears that it is not just a problem with the S but also the P model. Yes I know that it happens with all cars but I am just talking about the Mills here.
  • I am 99% sure that the cause of the light coming on is that raw fuel is getting to the O2 sensor(s) and that is one reason the CEL comes on. If no further incidents occur then the computer turns itself off after a number of cold starts. I believe that time is a factor here also. Seven or eight starts within a period of 5 minutes or so will not do the trick. From what I have read there are as many as four O2 sensors in the 2.3L vehicles. There is an upstream and a downstream sensor in the exhaust sytem and where the other two are heaven only knows. I am not at all worried that something serious has gone wrong, at least not at this point. These computerized and "sensorized" cars from all makers around the world seem to be a work in progress. Those public school dropouts at work again? I now have a legitimate excuse to drive my MM S every day without my wife snickering at me as I don my Indy gear!
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    My light started coming on intermittently at about 12000 miles. I have an appointment at 8:00 Friday morning at Lakeland Mazda to check and repair the problem. Mine is still under warranty, so there will be no charges involved. They show 4 1/2 hours to replace the knock sensor, and it lists for $168.

    The woman I talked to on the phone said a loner car is not available unless my car is kept overnight. But I have a paper called "Mazda Driver's Assurance Plan" that came with the car stating:

    "Take your car in for warranty work at a participating Mazda dealership, and you can get a loaner car at no charge. Just ask. You won't have to arrange your day around a repair schedule, ask friends for a ride or catch up on your magazine reading while you wait."

    I decided to take that discussion up with them Friday when I can talk to the manager if necessary to determine if they consider themselves a "participating Mazda dealership". Trying to do it on the phone anymore is about impossible unless you are willing to sit and listen to their telephone advertising for a few hours. The blarb on that automatic telephone system says they have the best service anywhere, but I'm going to determine that for myself Friday.

    They will certainly be taken off my list or people to deal with if they won't live up to their advertising.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I do appreciate what you are doing and didn't mean for it to appear otherwise.

    Again, thanks for your information.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    I understood what you were saying so I did not mean to come off in a bad light. Quite honestly I would never have bought this manual if I was not going to keep the car until it drops dead. I figure since I have it and I can be of some help to other people then why not. By the way I was told the same thing when I bought my car about the loaner car. Let us know how it turns out. Again sorry if it came off bad sounding.

    Fairwood, I looked in on the Mazda chat last night for about a minute, literally. It was about 20 minutes after it started and know one was talking. The few people that came in after me were asking what the discussion was about and know one knew.
  • Just as I said, the CEL went out this afternoon after 2+ days and 9 starts, at least 3 of which were warm starts. Sounds like that chat room is dead in the water. fwatson: wish I were within a two hour drive of Lakeland now. First time in 9 or 10 years that we have not been in our condo in FL by this time. A fellow musician from the early '60's is the food or restaurant critic for the Lakeland Times Ledger or whatever the paper is. (Trent Rowe).
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I would think it is still quite nice up there. We are having glorious weather right now. As you know it is one of the two nicest times in Florida. Were you with a band down here?

    The cycling period on my CE light has been shorter than yours. It has always lasted less than two days with probably about 5 startups. If all goes well Friday I should be rid of the annoyance, but it is something I could live with if I had to.
  • or words to that effect. Olde Englishe was never my strong suit. It is 33F outside our patio doors as I write this and we have had glorious fall weather all along except for a few days when winter practised its thing. Another fellow and myself started a 4-piece group up here around 1959 or '60 and Trent Rowe was our drummer, introduced to us by our piano player. That lasted about 2 years (weekend gigs as they say) then I was invited to join a 10 piece dance band that was the top band in the surrounding area. We played on CBC radio on Saturday nights and we used to get letters from as far away as California since CBC radio stations were 50,000 watts and covered much of North America after the sun went down. Haven't touched a trumpet in 31 years. Sorry madam moderator for this off-topic post.
  • What are the symptoms if there is something wrong with the knock sensor? Does a faulty knock sensor always result in the engine light coming on? I am simply trying to determine if the roughness and a low rumble/pinging noise could be as a result of the knock sensor. I use premium fuel. I have a 2001 Millenia S with appx. 56,000 kms.
  • What engine do you have? If it is a 2.3L supercharged then premium is the right gas to use. If it is a 2.5P then use 87 octane. On two recent occasions I have had a rough engine for several seconds immediately after starting. Engine clears itself but I live with the Check Engine Light on for a few days and several starts.
    My main reason for this post is to let everyone know that you can see what the tilt steering wheel motor package looks like. Go to eBay, do a search on Mazda Millenia and go to item # 2439023613. As has been discussed here in recent past postings, this is overkill to the nth degree. A simple mechanical system with only a few moving parts would do a much better job and likely never fail in a hundred years. And cost the maker and the buyer a lot less money.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Quote "What are the symptoms if there is something wrong with the knock sensor?"


    With my 2.5 P unsupercharged engine, there has been no symptom of any kind except for that annoying CEL. I have intentionally gone full throttle acceleration numerous times when the engine light is on to see if there is any sign of a ping or knock, and there is none.

    Your 2.3 S depends on conditions not seen in the 2.5, so I can't give you any help there. I am having mine repaired just to get rid of the light.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    That is the entire steering column from a '97. And it sure is an overcomplicated looking thing.

    You can access it by just using the number you gave in the first search box when ebay opens. I just copy/pasted it. I have the auto-tilt turned off, but you can still manually adjust it by using the button on the left side of the steering column.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I think I have a symptom for my Knock Sensor CEL. This time, after driving about three miles into town, I stopped at a traffic light. Just as I saw the CEL come on, I also felt the normally undetectable idle become slightly rough. The roughness disappeared as suddenly as it appeared, and is now gone, but the light is still on. Hopefully it will still be on when I get to the repair shop in the morning, although I don't think it needs to be for them to read the OBDII code. That's the first time it has come on under idling conditions, so I had not felt it before.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    I wish I could be helpful here but the manual goes by symptoms and then lists the possible causes. So for mmerchant a knocking/pinging during acceleration/cruising could be a bad knock sensor. It could also be improper fuel pressure, improper engine compression, or engine overheats due to a cooling system malfunction. It comes down to a process of elimination and also testing the items.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Lakeland Mazda changed the knock sensor on my MM this morning. They were very courteous, and DID give me that loner car after I showed them the paper that came with my car. I took it in at 8:30 and they had it ready when I went back at 12:15.

    The car seems no different, which is good. I'll let you know if I get that light again.

    And if you really want to appreciate your MM, drive a Hyundai Accent for about three hours. That was the loner car from Enterprise. Very noisy engine, transmission shifted well, and the car seemed solid. Getting back into my MM-P was a real pleasure after that.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    Was the CEL still on when you brought it in? If not then how did they figure out that it was the knock sensor? Or did you tell them that you had it read and that the knock sensor was bad?

    Glad to hear that you did not have a problem getting a rental. Though to bad it was an Accent and not something a little closer to what you normally drive.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    I had told them when I called for an appointment that AutoZone had read it out as P0325-Knock Sensor. But they also put a reader on it while it was in the shop (I saw them do that). I didn't talk to the mechanic, but as I understand OBDII, it retains codes as opposed to OBDI which required the light be on.

    My light had gone off one stop short of the repair shop when I had to wait about 20 minutes for a freight train to get out of the way and shut down after waiting about 5 minutes. When I restarted the light didn't come back on. That is the way it has always acted.

    I'll know within a week if it is fixed, because it had gotten that frequent. I am sure though that they would not change a part based on a rumor I had given them concerning a third party test ie AutoZone. They show the Sensor at $126, and there was at least 3 hours labor involved. Too much to spend on a whim I think.

    The Accent was OK for temporary transportation as opposed to being stranded. But except for those looking for basic transportation for city commuting, I wouldn't recommend one unless you just are not sensitive at all to noise and vibration. I am very sensitive to those, and have never ridden in any car I couldn't find fault with some noise intrusion. Guess I need a majic carpet. Except for some tire noise on pebbly or coarse surfaces, My MM is very good in those departments. I don't know if there is a quieter alternative to the Michelin Energy MXV4's, but if I can find one I will use them when it is time for new tires. That is actually my biggest complaint about noise with all cars I have driven.
  • steevo2steevo2 Posts: 33
    Hey fwatson ... a little off topic here, but if you are REALLY serious about reducing noise, check out This stuff is supposed to be amazing...

    Back on topic. I ran two tanks of Techron enhanced 93 octane through my 97MM-S and CEL is still on. Today I will reset it by disconnecting the battery and see what happens. I'm really hoping that the O2 sensors are OK since I'm considering selling the car.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    What they call this information on the OBDII is Freeze Frame Data. It is "technical data which indicates the engine condition at the time of the first malfunction". It is supposed to stay in the memory even if there is another emission-related trouble code stored. I would assume this is what they looked at, and apparently it works.

    Good luck on the fix.

    By the way you might want to keep an eye on your anti-freeze level because they have to drain the radiator to get to the knock sensor. This is just in case it starts sucking water out of your over flow container, even though you don't need to really worry about a freeze in FL.
  • You don't want to go that route. I had one for a long weekend and the wind noise in the ears was something else, not to mention the bugs in the eyes and mouth. Buffeting from passing jets was worse than potholed roads.
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Quote "By the way you might want to keep an eye on your anti-freeze level because they have to drain the radiator to get to the knock sensor. This is just in case it starts sucking water out of your over flow container, even though you don't need to really worry about a freeze in FL."


    I wasn't aware they had drained the radiator, but I did look carefully under the hood while still at the dealer. It all looked to be in order, but thanks for the tip. I'll check the water level again to be sure it is up. I didn't see any charge for coolant on the repair ticket, but they may have saved the coolant they drained out. I also didn't look at it that critically because I didn't have to pay it.

    fairwood, it can't be any worse than riding a motorcycle in Florida during Lovebug season. Yukkkkkkkkk!!!!!

    I just went out and checked the car over thoroughly. They left it clean except for some smearing on the upper edge of the chrome grillwork. All fluids look fine and no mess under the hood. You couldn't tell they had worked on it if not for the smudges on the grill.
  • Our first encounter with lovebugs was back in 1991 I think. We had a VW van converted to a wheelchair lift for my wife. We were at an Elderhostel on Jeckel Island off coast of Georgia. We were headed south the following week and someone said "watch out for the lovebugs". I thought he was making a joke about Freddy the Lovebug (VW car in Disney movie). We soon found out. They fly united in the true sense of the word, they have no redeeming social value, birds won't eat them, they smell because of the protein that remains on the windshield, the smears eat thru the paint they tell us and almost impossible to wash off. Don't dare turn the wipers on!!! Story is they came over from Africa on a strong wind storm or somesuch. 'It's an ill wind that doesn't blow someone some good' doesn't apply in this case. Worse thing is that I have seen them up here in southern Ontario past two or three summers. Mother Nature is a slut.
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