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Mazda Millenia



  • steevo2steevo2 Posts: 33
    97 Mil-s. 79,500 miles. Check engine light on and AutoZone read the OBD-II codes as two bad O2 sensors, cylinder 6 misfire and a bad MAP sensor. I had been running 87 octane and thought this might have contributed. I switched back to the 93 octane and ran two tanks through with some Techron in each tank. Then,I tried to reset the CEL by pulling the battery cable, but the AutoZone guy says that won't work on my '97 model. It didn't. I had AutoZone run the codes again and now I'm only showing a bad MAP sensor. This looks very easy to replace myself ... location is under hood, passenger side mounted on the rear of the strut tower. Anyway, there's the update. Hopefully this $185 MAP sensor will do the trick.
  • steevo2steevo2 Posts: 33
    I replaced the MAP Sensor and I'm still getting the MAP/Baro error code with the new one installed. What a pain. Anyone know if there are two sensors? One MAP and the other Barometric? Or, maybe I've got a vacuum leak going to the sensor? The engine seems to be running a little rough ... very slight but I can feel it if I rev it slowly while in park.

    Looks like a trip to the dealer is in my near future ($$$$). Maybe I can get my money back for this sensor. Any ideas or comments are welcome.
  • Your statement that "engine seems to be running a little rough" caught my eye. The only warning light I have had (knock wood) is the Check Engine Light and I am 99.9% sure I know how it happens. But since the weather has turned colder up here north of the 49th parallel I notice each and every time I restart a warm engine the idle rpm's are around 500 which is not too far off the expected mark. Engine runs a little rough for a few seconds then cleans up its act so to speak. A cold start always plays by the book, higher rpm's then the idle drops back in two or more stages, almost like the old automatic chokes on carbeurators dropping down on the stepped cogs. You have to be of a certain age to follow that last little bit. How long did it take you to do the replacement of the MAP yourself and would you do it again if necessary? These cars are no longer a Saturday Mechanic/driveway do-it-yourself project.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    Are you sure that it is the MAP sensor and not the MAP sensor solenoid valve? What was the code number on your read out? Are you sure they said the MAP and not the MAF?

    Fwatson glad to hear your repair is working.
  • OK folks. Here's the latest in the MAP sensor saga. After installing a known good MAP sensor and still getting code P0105 MAP/Baro Malfunction I had decided to take the car to the dealer. Dealer happened to be closed today for inventory so I started poking around. Normally I have the windows up/Bose on but today I wanted to really listen. Guess what? When I pulled into the garage I heard what could be a vacuum leak. Popped hood and sure enough ... ssssssss. So I got me a 1 1/2 ft. piece of 1/2 PVC tubing left over from a water project and started listening ... one end to my ear, poking the other around. Found the leak in a connector, under the supercharger(?), I can see the leak! Traced the vacuum line back, up, over and lo and behold ... it's connected to the MAP sensor! Normally this would be an easy fix, but this IS a Mill-s we're talking about. I don't see any way to get to it without taking some stuff off. I don't believe I'm up for trying it.

    Fairwood: Fortunately replacing the MAP sensor IS a Saturday/Driveway deal ... about 5 minutes tops. If you pop the hood, looking at the engine, it is back left mounted on the strut tower, passenger side. Couldn't be easier. Unplug the electrical connector. Use a small crescent wrench or 10mm socket for 2 bolts. Disconnect the vacuum line. Replace with new one.

    Watch this space for further developments ... next up, will AutoZone refund my $196 for the MAP Sensor and how much will dealer want to fix that vacuum line? Stay tuned...
  • fwatsonfwatson Posts: 639
    Would it be possible to connect a new piece of vacuum tubing to the old one end for end and pull it through under the SC? I'm not acquainted with the S, so this is just a suggestion.

    Good luck, but I think you are out of luck returning a part that has been installed.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    Steevo2 assuming that the vacuum setup has not changed from '97 to '02 there are a number of different sections of this hose line. My first thought was the same thing that fwatson had suggested about pulling a new hose through, but after looking it up that is not possible. There are a couple of tees in this line, and if it is the one that I think you are talking about you have to get to the second tee to get to this hose. The two tees appear to be fairly close together but you are right in that you will have to take the "Air Charging Pressure Component" off to get to this hose. Most likely you will have to be able to get your hands on this hose because I am sure it will be heated on.
  • Well, I just dropped off my '97-S to get the vacuum hose repaired. Estimate? $315.00 labor (5hours) ... to replace or reconnect a %$^&@#% hose!

    On the other hand, kudos go out to AutoZone. They took back my MAP sensor and refunded my money in full ... no questions asked. Buy something from them.

    Hopefully the car will be ready tomorrow and I'll relay the final damage report.
  • Vacuum hoses suck. Sorry, couldn't resist and also sorry that you have to pay so much for, as you say $$%@#%%** or words to that effect. That shroud over the 2.3 supercharged engine is like a steel door on a bank vault. You must know the combination or fuggedaboudit. As I read other Mazda help sites I always marvel or suck in my breath when I read how many hours it takes to do what seems like a simple repair. I purchased an extended after-market warranty when I bought my used 2000 2.3L end of May. Haven't needed it yet (knock wood) but it's there for a lot of these problems I keep reading about. Also, if I don't use it in the 3 years I get my $1900 or so back less a service fee of $100. Also the deductible is $50. instead of $100. if I get it repaired at the dealership where I purchased the policy.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Um, folks, could we cool it on the symbols which appear to be representing profanity? Technically that's a violation of the Membership Agreement ...
  • I could have made my point without using the symbols that appear to represent profanity ... to anyone offended, please accept my apology.
  • Another scary moment and Hallowee'n is past. Drove my MM S around town for about 9 or 10 miles tops this morning with about 25 minutes between each of two stops. Back into garage for maybe 2 hours then out again. Car started OK but because it was still warm the idle rpm's were around the 600 or 700 mark. The roughest I have ever heard this engine. Shook fairly violently, sounded like it was going to throw a rod as soon as I put it in reverse. Back into Park and shaking stopped or diminished greatly but still rough running and acted as if it were starving for gas. Back into Reverse and shaking and rattling underneath again. The rattling seemed to be not so much from engine as from underneath. Turned engine off and back on several times and finally engine settled down but with our favorite light on once again: CEL. When the shaking was going on the CEL was flashing but after engine settled down the light remained steady. I am beginning to suspect that this engine doesn't like cold weather and I'm beginning to not like this "fair weather friend". Only time will tell if and when the light will go out. Is the bar open yet?
  • I'd have a hard time believing that temperature would cause that kind of shaking. Besides, just how cold can it be inside your garage on the 4th of November? One could expect running on 4 of 6 cylinders could cause something like that ... timing, misfiring, electronic ignition, that kind of stuff. The rattling is probably coming from everything in between your exhaust manifold and the tailpipe since it's all connected to the shaking engine. I agree with fwatson ... time to take that one in for a checkup.
  • Yes a checkup is due. In this case I think the word is CHECKup with emphasis on the check part.
    I started it up again about 2 hours later again and no problem. It went up to the fast idle step and quickly dropped back to smooth running. Tempermental little devils aren't they.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    Fairwood if you take the car in the misfire should be recorded in your freeze frame just like fwatson's problem was, therefore I doubt that you would still need the CEL on still. Also if you take it in don't forget to have them look at your seat warmer also. If it was me I thing I would take it sooner then later and especially tell them about the flashing CEL.

    Steevo2, speaking of a bushel of money, how did your car turn out?
  • My MM is still at the dealer. A few months ago I discovered that my valve cover gaskets were leaking (just barely) and this is a known problem with the Millenia. Estimate at that time to replace them ... $575.00. I passed. To repair the broken vacuum line 'T', they have to remove part of the supercharger. A 5 hour labor charge. I asked how much extra to replace valve cover gaskets once they are in that deep. An extra $165.00 so I told them to go for it. They had to order one of the gaskets so it might be Thursday afternoon before it is ready. I'm expecting a bill of $500-$600. I'll report the final tally and details of the operation.
  • *pep talk generator - ON"

    You're right fwatson ... dealer shop time for other makes would be expensive too. I've owned my '97-S for almost 4 years and other than brakes, tires, gas, oil, filters and car washes, I've spent exactly $0 on repairs. So, spending several hundred now to have the dealer do an up-close-and-personal isn't that bad. I'll be glad that I had these things corrected now rather than later. I enjoy driving the car and it still looks great!

    *pep talk generator - OFF" :-|
  • My check engine light on my 2000 MM ME has been on and off now for almost a year. I had an appointment to get it checked the first time it came on, but a day or two before the appointment, the light went off so I cancelled it. Within a month, the light was back on. I drove around with it on thinking it would go off again, but it didn't. I finally disconnected the negative terminal on the battery to reset the light. It worked for a few weeks, but came on again. This all started at around 36k miles, I thought the warranty was up at 36k.

    So it's time for inspection on the car and it fails the emissions test.

    So I finally get it checked at the local garage, didn't want to pay the dealer high $s. He told we that it was either one of the O2 sensors or the catalytic converter. He told me the dealer would have to look at it to get to determine exactly what it was. Knowing that CC never go bad, I assume it is one was one of the O2s.

    I'm now at 52k miles on the car. My local mechanic also told me that the warranty on the 02s is 50k miles. The CC is federally mandeated to 80k miles.

    Now I'm think great, I missed the warrant on the O2s because I thought it ran out at 36k miles, it's really 50k miles and I'm at 52k. Procrasination didn't pay off this time.

    Great, so I call up Mazda USA to confirm the warranty. I speak to a nice guy who confirms the warranties of 50k for the O2s and 80k for the cat converter. I tell the guy that it failed the emissions test because of the O2 sensors. He says well their only covered to 50k again. He then says to take it to the dealer and if it is the O2 sensors that maybe he could do something about it, like have the warranty cover it.

    I take it to the dealer on Monday and sure enough, it NOT the O2 sensors but it is the cat converter. The mechanic then says it covered by the warranty and it's all paid for. Good thing he says, it's a $900 job to replace ONE of the CCs.

    I would suggest that if anyone has a problem with the O2 and your warranty is expired recently to call Mazda USA, and explain the situation, it's a common problem with the Millenias, and try to get some help with the repair.
  • My MM S goes in tomorrow noon. That's not to say that it will be looked at right away. Light still on of course and I notice that the idle rpm's continue to be very low for several seconds after a warm start, maybe 400 (how accurate is the tach at any speed, especially at the low end). It soon picks up to maybe 700 hundred. Also have feeling that engine is a little rough now, more a feeling in the gas pedal because it sounds smooth. If it wasn't cold up here I might try driving in my bare feet or at least gas foot. That's how they used to drive in those Shell gas mileage contests so they could feel any small load on engine and then shift down. I also have a sense that the pickup is not as great as before. To the uninitiated I am sure the pickup would impress after supercharger kicks in but to the experienced it would be a little draggy (new word? copywrite pending). They may have to keep it over weekend but not a great problem. Hopefully my extended warranty will cover some if not all that ails it. Fat lady hasn't even warmed up yet.
  • Friday - dealer just called, one ignition coil is shot and cost is over $450 Canadian. Heated seats have a broken coil somewhere. Apparently the heater coil system is one continuous loop thru both seats/backs and entire package must be replaced. They subcontract out part of the job to remove part of the leather pieces. The labor is the costly part as in most repair jobs. I told them to fuggedaboudit! Replace coil and rotate tires. Murphy's Law #2 in play here - my extended warranty does not cover the coil. (If more than one thing can go wrong in any endevour, the thing that goes wrong is the one that does the most damage). Damage in this case is to my wallet. The hoops I jump through to keep the economy alive! There is a donation box at the door, please give as you leave. Thanx.
  • fwatson: I have the second level of extended warranty up one notch from powertrain. I don't have the list of covered items in front of me but it is quite extensive and I will check it out downstairs before picking up car. Stay tuned.
  • My warranty covers a lot of electrical items too numerous to mention here but I would need the next level <enhanced> to cover these coils. My purpose was to cover the transmission, A/C parts, brakes and powertrain bits and pieces. Also covered is "steering" (tie rod ends, tilt wheel etc.). At the time of purchase of this used car who knew that each spark plug had its own coil? How much detailed research does one do, how far down do you mine for nitty gritty details?
    The error code was PO304. There was a misfire on #4 cylinder and this was traced to the coil. This job took 2.2 hours since they had to remove and replace the intake plenum for access. I also had them check the seat heaters and there is an open coil somewhere, necessitating the partial removal of leather by a sub-contractor, replace heater coil and on and on. I will sit a little higher on my wallet and forego this heated derierre. Just for comparison sake I will give the costs in Canadian dollars with U.S. dollars in brackets based on today's exchange rate.
    labor rate = 80 ($60).
    labor for coil replacement = $176 ($133)
    ignition coil = $316 ($239). I bet it's more in the U.S. in U.S. dollars !!!!
    There was no charge for checking the seat heater problem but there is a price of $329 ($248) quoted if heater was to be replaced.
    I also had them rotate the wheels = $24 ($18).
    On top of those prices is a tax of $41 ($31).
    And just to make me feel better? there are 5 more of those little suckers in there. Oh well.
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    I am glad to hear that the fat lady did not sing.

    The reason why I mentioned you telling them about the flashing CEL was because the only time that the CEL flashes is when you have a misfire in one or all of the cylinders.

    Do you think that the bad ignition coil is what caused the CEL to go off before?
  • and so it goes. Thanks for replies folks. kcm8419: No, the two previous times were identical in their symptoms. The engine was warm and both times I let go of the key in start mode just before the engine really caught. It took a few revs before the engine really caught (as if one cylinder fired, then another then another etc). Raw gas went thru the exhaust and that is all it takes for one or more of the 4 O2 sensors to get their knickers in a knot. After a few cold starts and a day or two passing and no further hiccups, the computer says all seems OK and turns out the light and goes to sleep again. If you think that statement above about one then another then another cylinder firing is crazy, the younger brother of a friend had an MG 2 or maybe a 3. A group of us were looking at his convertible as he was leaving. A-poonka, a-poonka, a-poonka as he chimed off the sequence. That's one, that's two, that's three, that's 4 - OK I'm outa here. Standard procedure for him. There have been several stories making the rounds the past few months including a phone-in mechanics help line up here about GM cars having problems with CEL's when Shell gas is used. I have always used Shell in last couple of cars. Just for a change I filled a half empty tank with Sunoco 94 the day before going to the dealer. The light had been on for a day or two at the time. I am not a fan of ethanol in gas but Sunoco has up to 10% ethanol. The story for years has been that ethanol softens or swells neoprene gaskets etc. Urban legend? Who knows. It will take some time before I gain my full confidence back every time I start the MM S when warm. fwatson: 2001 Millenia for sale in Florida, white, looks fabulous (on eBay). No Florida county on the plate or tag as you say down there. Yours???
  • kcm8419: You stated in message #2752 that the only time the CEL flashes is if there is a misfire in one of the cylinders. If you mean continous flashing then you may be right, I don't know. But my 2000 owner's manual states on page 6-7 that the CEL will come on if there is a blown "room" fuse (cabin) or if a fuse is removed from the inside fuse box. Don't know if same holds true for fuses in box under hood. So there are numerous reasons or faults that will trigger that little sucker. A faulty knock sensor will also trigger it according to postings on site. My CEL was on steady for the two or three days prior to replacing #4 coil. Anytime my CEL has come on - three I believe - the light flashed each time but only for perhaps 10 seconds or even less then stayed on steadily. I believe the flashing is to catch your eye. I wonder if I were to put duct tape over it, it would go away just like those people who block out the flashing 12.00 on their VCR's?
  • No it's not still flashing. Come on now!!
  • kcm8419kcm8419 Posts: 121
    I am sorry if I confused you on the flashing light. Mazda actually calls all of these indicator lights MIL's, Malfunction Indicator Lamp. So they do not break out each individual indicator light, henceforth when the CEL goes on it could be almost anything, that is why you need the code number to specify what the exact problem is. Therefore what I was saying was that the only problem that could cause a MIL to flash is a misfire. This does not mean that it could come on and just stay on but it is the only item that could cause it to flash. Now you can also have a problem and have no MIL come at all. Again sorry if I confused you.

    Unfortunately this is the beast that everybody has to deal with on these codes. This is the reason why the manufacturers did not want to release the information on these codes to anybody. Just so they could monopolize the repair end of it.
  • I got my MM back from the dealer. All seems OK now. They replaced the broken vacuum 't' connector and replaced the valve cover gaskets since they were in that deep. Total bill ... $508. A little less than what I was prepared for.

    Hmmm. What have I learned? Well, CEL went on after I had been running 87 octane for a couple of months. Related? Who knows. At that point I had the codes read at AutoZone and they indicated, 2 O2 sensors, 2 fuel trims, #6 cylinder misfire, MAF sensor, and MAP sensor. So, I went back to 93 octane for two tanks, each with a bottle of Techron. Went back to AutoZone, read the codes ... now I had only the MAP sensor remaining. I think I'll stay with the better gas.

    MAP sensor was good after all. Vacuum hose to it was broken and that was causing the code. Dealer was professional and charged what I consider a fair price for the work performed. Now I have no CEL and the car runs noticably better. More zoom, zoom, zoom.

    So, it was a $500 repair. My first for this 7 year old car. Not bad in the big picture.

    Now that it's fixed, the spousal unit wants me to sell it and buy me (her) a used SLK 230, 99 or 00 model. I'm lukewarm to the idea. Is the SLK a girlie car or am I paranoid?

    Anyway, for now, me and my MM are back on the road!
  • Bip, bop, bam, CEL, MAF, MAP, and on and on.
    UPS means a shipping company to many but it also means Universal Power Supply to a computer user.
    Just for us Mazda owners could someone break down MAP, MAF and a few of the more obscure ones please? Obviously I am too well acquainted with CEL.
    steevo2: You had to be different didn't you. It was my #4 misfiring and there are two others with #4 I just read about on another Mazda site in the last 24 hours or so. #4 not good enough for you?
    Seriously, I read not too long ago that you should not add these injector cleaners more often than every 3000 miles or so or every oil change. I did it twice within 3 tank fulls myself. Now we need an social sectretary to keep us informed of all our appointments and "to do" items.
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