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BMW 5-Series Sedans



  • 330iii330iii Posts: 71
    Too bad BMW doesn't offer the 530d in the US,diesel has more torque albeit smelly fumes but is much more fuel efficient!
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I'm with you re: GM junk; I MIGHT consider a GM pickup if I needed such a sled, and the Z06 would be a fun track toy-but otherwise there is nothing in GM's lineup which interests me in the slightest. Another problem with the CTS-V will be finding a Cadillac dealership(AKA "God's Waiting Room") that doesn't slap a gold kit and a simulated cabriolet roof on every Caddy they get...
  • Cadillac is not the car it used to be in the 70's to 1999. I think when a CTS-V moons you on the track, you will appriciate that you are playing with the big boys

    Did you know that BMW’s 5-speeder is GM-sourced? GM has changed much. Especially Cadillac and soon Buick.
  • jb_shinjb_shin Posts: 357
    Yes, it is designed and made by a company in France owned by GM, but I believe the only hand GM has in the transmission is the name.
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    Save your breath.

    A modified Neon or Civic could probably beat any stock BMW or GM "at the track". I suspect that most BMW owners and posters here have a slightly broader perspective on what constitutes engineering excellence and performance.

    "Cadillac is not the car it used to be in the 70's to 1999." Is that so? Personally, I don't believe that. But, even if you are gullible enough to, try coming back here in 30 years when you don't have to apologize for the most recent three decades. You don't become a winner overnight with so much practice at being a loser.

    I'd like to believe the potential for a competitive or even superior American automobile company exists. But it would not involve either the management of GM or the UAW.

    Sorry to the host and rest of the board for the digression.
  • Started the bimmer this morning and she was knocking in idle. Took her on the road and with each acceleration it felt like I was going over rumble strips. This continued for 25 minutes (with each accel.) until I got to work. Any thoughts onwhat it might be? Help, she feels sick!
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    billbrox, I'm just guessing and don't know where you're located but it sounds like it could be a minor choke problem... coincides with our first frost around NYC. Obviously, you should get it in to service.
  • d-man, Many thanks....the knocking did stop once I started it again this pm. (temps now around 64 degrees). Am scheduled to have it serviced this pm. Go Yanks!
    Thanks again....
  • I haven't owned a BMW since 1985 (320i). Yesterday I test drove a 98 528i sedan w/ 5sp. It drives really nice..80k miles. Two owners.17 inch wheels. He wants $14,100. This seems to be reasonable based on Edmunds or KBB. It seems that other comments indicate that I need to be able to verify service records to be comfortable. Any other feedabck would be greatly appreciated. I am anxious to get back into a BMW. 14k seems pretty reasonable...but I guess it won't seem cheap if I had a major engine problem. Any suggestions??
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    Yeah, I'll bet you'll see a bunch of CTS-Vs at the track... Grandpa would be scared that driving over 60 MPH might blow the cabriolet roof clean off.

    <Did you know that BMW&#146;s 5-speeder is GM-sourced?>
    Yes, and note that the transmissions are designed/built in Europe. Anyway, GM slushboxes aren't the problem; it's the rest of the car.

    <GM has changed much. Especially Cadillac and soon Buick>

    Let's see... the Allante was supposed to beat the SL 500 at it's own game. Then the Catera was going to put the A4, C Class, and 3er on the trailer. Oh yeah, and Cadillac was going to dominate LeMans-just like Audi, BMW, and M-B. Refresh my memory; just how many podium finishes did Cadillac score??? Now the CTS-V is going to put the S, M, and AMG cars in the shade? I'll bet there will be darn few CTS-V drivers willing to race an E39 M5 for pinks. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if a chipped E28 or E35 M5 ran and hid from the CTS-V either. As habitat said, come back here when Cadillac has had three decades of experience building real sports sedans.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    The six cylinder E39s are just about bulletproof. The '97s(like mine) had a few teething problems, but they were pretty much resolved by the time the '98s came out. I bought my 528iA in early 2001 and I now have 95000 miles on it. Mileage has averaged @22 mpg. Service/repair costs have averaged $56/month-$77 if you include the cost of four Artic Alpins, steel wheels, and OEM BMW wheel covers.
    Get the service history and have a BMW tech inspect it. At 80K it should have had a water pump fitted not to long ago. It sounds like a good price, but don't get too attached; there are a ton of used 5ers out there and it's worth waiting for a good one. See for good E39 info as well-and you can also contact me via the web page listed in my profile.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    Div2 meant to say E28 or E34 M5s. Just to keep the record straight. BTW, an old E28 M5 still rides, handles, and moves like few cars produced today.

    Happy BMW Motoring,

  • lazuralazura Posts: 43
    It's a fact that most BMW's and Mercedes depreciate 50% in 3 years (the exception being limited editions like the M5). Therefore, the 'sweet spot' for these cars (like the 5-series) is years 4-6. The benefits are huge: a) 50% cheaper price, b) still under full warranty (1 year original, 2 years CPO), c) lower insurance costs and d) first owner has beared the burden of service delays with all the recalls. That's how I purchased my BMW E39 and MB C43 AMG; the same great vehicles at 1/2 the cost. The fact is the new 5-series is WAY over-priced compared to the previous E39. The earliest I will even consider the E60 is 2007.

    P.S. - My biggest gripe with the E60 is not the styling (which is after all subjective) but the sub-standard quality of the exterior and interior materials. The entire lower 1/3 of the exterior is PLASTIC! Almost the entire back-end is also plastic. The interior contains very cheap plastic (especially in the door inserts and center console) compared to my E39. Also, the leather seat coverings (that's right, coverings, not full leather) is very thin and not very comfortable. I'm sure the driving experience is better than my E39, but for over $50,000 I expect some level of quality materials.
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    wrong...........5 doesn't deprieciate 50% in three years. Try to find a 2001 525 for 21 grand. MSRP on a typically equipped model would have been about 41-42 grand. Average wholesale black book on the car is over 26 grand. So, that blows your theory.
    Furthermore, it seems that all this chat with people that have E39's is directed at bashing the new five. I have heard the 'cheap' references before. Your car (E39) is fabulous, that goes without saying, but there is nothing cheap about the E60. It's just a totally different presentation. I hope that you can begin to appreciate the differences because it is greatly improved in all areas.
  • div2div2 Posts: 2,580
    I know you have to toe the corporate line on the E60, but I have yet to find anyone NOT employed by BMW say that they prefer the E60 interior or exterior to that of the E39. It seems like Bangle and his cadre of minions are changing things simply to be different.

    Example 1. The E65 shift lever. It's obvious that BMW wnted to admit to building a car with a column shift, so they adopted a non-intuitive procedure that requires you to give a info card to the valet so the poor [non-permissible content removed] can get the thing out of park.
    Example 2. Using the turn signal wand on the E60 now requires a moderate learning curve. Now, just exactly what was wrong with the setup BMW used for the past four decades? I sure don't remember hearing anyone complain about turn signal switches in the past.

     Yes, BMWs are still excellent driving machines, but now you have to get past the gawky styling and infuriating stechnology to appreciate them.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Final (overall) depreciation calculation is simply the difference between what the original buyer actually paid less what the original buyer gets when s/he finally sells the car.

    Depreciation is NOT based on MSRP (unless that reflects the actual cost of the car) or what another dealer later sells the car for after they take it in trade or buy it in auction.

    Keep in mind that dealers ordinarily acquire their used cars at wholesale and sell at retail. The markup is their profit. They rarely buy or sell cars at a loss. An original owner who sells car by him/herself, likely gets more than wholesale but less than car dealer retail.

    Future value of a car is what it actually sells to a paying buyer for years later.

    Future value depends upon time, mileage, condition of the car, and condition of the market vis-a-vis the particular car. [See what happens to resale if you buy an "odd" car that no one wants (e.g., a stripper non-metallic white 525i 5-speed manual with no options). Or try to sell a RWD convertible in winter in Minnesota.]
  • timtrantimtran Posts: 29
    Time will tell whether the E60 is a hit or a flop. BMW cars used to be considered cheaper cars than, let's say, Mercedes (the 1st BMW car had a motorcycle engine, believe it or not.) Let us not let ourselves divided by different opinions. A car is just a car, not worth losing temper over. We can curse Bangle but it does not change anything about the E60. People will buy it nonetheless. C'est temps de laisser ca aller.
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    whatever your formula (I've provided an example that is plausible but I've seen no others here) I will maintain that a 5 series DOES NOT depreciate 50% in three years.

    I don't have to "toe the BMW corporate line". The product stands on its own and I have sold 4 new 5's already. People love the car.
  • ndmdndmd Posts: 27
    Sorry all you new 5 haters out there. I love this car. First, I agree that the exterior is a big change. However, I do not understand the Pontiac references. The style is new and great looking. Do not misunderstand me, I think the last 5 was beautiful, too. Now, I think it looks dated compared to this one.

    The interior is cool. I do agree that it is less of a cockpit, but that is OK. It is extremely comfortable and quiet...much quieter than the last 5. I will also admit that I am a technophile. I LOVE new technology and this car has tons of it. Sorry, but I love the gadgets.

    Finally, the car is amazing to drive. Of course, I am currently driving a '01 Altima, so I do not have much to compare it to. However, I have driven the E39 and this car does seem tighter.

    The car I drove was 530 with PP, SP, and xenon.

    I have waited years and years to be able to buy a luxury car. Now, all I have to do is decide on options and whether I want to spend the extra bucks for the 545i. Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but I think the only thing I get with the 45 is a blast of an engine. I would rarely use its potential, though.

    I will wait a few more months and then buy. Hopefully, they will be willing to deal a bit, but I will pay MSRP if necessary.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    I leased a 530i, 5 speed, PP, SP, Zenons in April of 03. I have a 3 year lease w/ 45k allowed for 446.90 a month. Ok, let's see here .... carry the 2... ok.. now add that, factor in discount, and the answer is 37%. I will have paid 37% of the selling price to BMWFS to drive this thing for 3 years with 45k allowed. Oh, year, and this covers ALL finance charges. We're talking Maxima territory because of the strong resale and some financing incentives. (BMWSeller, you know the rate I got for April, roll in some MSDs (foregoing 1.9% for a CD) and we have a sweet deal).

    Remember: What matters is what you get and what you pay.

    Happy Motoring,

  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    joatman spells it out......63% value at 3 years!!

    NBMD.........if you drive the 545, let's face it, you'll probably want it, right? I'd say coming from a maxima that the 530i might be a sufficient enough jump in performance (everything's relative). Don't get me wrong though, I'd want the 545 myself. But, I'm not right about everything. Make sure that you negotiate because MSRP is not a given if you're buying.
  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    Leasing is just a fancy form of renting. The retail leasee has no idea what the depreciation really is on the car. The leasor (who owns the car) finds out when they go to sell the car at the end of the lease. If the amount realized is less than projected, the lease company loses money. There has been a ton of that over the past decade.

    Subsidizing leases is one of the most popular ways automakers boost sales. The stated residual may have no basis in reality. The leasee gets a great deal and the leasor assumes the risk.

    Haven't you read the stories about all the companies burned by their over-optimistic lease residuals?
  • bmwsellerbmwseller Posts: 200
    Leasing is not a fancy form of renting. Come on... When you rent does any of the payment go towards the principle? No. When you rent do you have an option to purchase after a set period? No. When you rent is there a new title issued with your name on it? No.

    Leasing is not renting.

    JOATMAN's depreciation was 37% for 3 years. That's a real figure. BMW's leases do have a basis in reality. The high used car prices sustain the lease residuals. So, no one is getting burned here.

    RIEZ, you may consider these facts and realize that renting is not leasing and a 'bimmer lease is not some gimmick brought on to fabricate sales
  • ii31ii31 Posts: 24

    It's time to replace tires on my 2000 BMW 540IA
    with sports pkg. It has Dulop Sports 2000E tires.
    Suprisingly, they are all 235/45/R17. I thought
    the rear tires are 255/40/R17?

    I'd like to buy tires which give smooth & quiet
    ride with decent performance. I live in SF Bay
    Area so don't have to worry about snow. Winter
    is usually wet.

    A wheelworks employee recommended Bridgestone
    Turanzas LSZ. Any advise?


  • riezriez Posts: 2,361
    bmwseller... Haven't you ever heard of buying a house or property on contract? Rent to own? When you lease a car, the lease company owns the title to the car. The leasee doesn't get title.

    What percentage of leasees ever buy out the lease? Most walk away. Lease returns fill auction houses and used car lots.

    You keep confusing different things that have nothing to do with depreciation (e.g., MSRP that is different than actual sales price) and confuse the parties involved (retail buyers vs dealers). Depreciation is the difference between what you buy something and what you later get when you sell it. If the leasee doesn't buy the item, they never experience any depreciation. They never owned anything; they never sold anything. They just "rented" the use of the item on agreed to terms. And if the leasee does buy the lease out, they will only later experience the depreciation when they finally go to sell the car they now own to another party.

    Lease residual is an estimate. Whether the residual is achieved only happens when the car is finally sold by the original owner (the leasor) to the next buyer. If that is the leasee, buying at the agreed residual rate per the terms of the lease buyout does not equal depreciation. That just gets the initial cost basis for depreciation for the 2nd owner (the now former leasee). The new owner finds out what the depreciation is when s/he later sells the car to a 3rd owner.
  • nyccarguynyccarguy Stamford, CTPosts: 11,265
    While it seems like a more than capable performer, it is no M5 (to stay on topic), S anything, or AMG anything. Can we say 0% Financing for 72 months along with $15K off MSRP?

    2001 Prelude Type SH, 2011 Pilot EX-L 4WD, 2015 Infiniti G37x Q40 AWD

  • cmr530icmr530i Posts: 278
    I saw my first E60 on the road today while driving home. The first thought that popped into my mind was "it is a curiosity." (Don't know if I'd want the "eyes" on my car looking like a bird's.) I will be visiting my dealer on Saturday for an invitation only event to see it up close. After reading the posts here I am eager to see the interior for myself.

    bmwseller-Do you have any idea when the 1 series will be available for ordering?
  • designmandesignman Posts: 2,129
    "Can we say 0% Financing for 72 months along with $15K off MSRP?"

    Still wouldn't buy it. But I wouldn't mind having the Cien... will probably never make it to market... what a shame. This new age of muscle is interesting. Can't wait to see what the next M5 fetches... would not be surprised if it didn't make it to market for 2005 either.
  • joatmonjoatmon Posts: 315
    I gave my real world account of how much it's going to cost me to drive my 530i for 3 years. Leasing fixes these costs. If I had bought the car and sold it after 3 years, I wouldn't own it after 3 years either. My cost would be selling price new minus the selling when disposed. Incluse finance charges and you get a number that can be compared to your lease cost. Now, buying the car at the end of the term is an option that I'll look into at lease end.

    My point supported BMWSeller's contention that a BMW has good resale, or low depreciation. I concur. I gave real world testimony that can be substantiated with lease agreements, etc. This lease is from BMWFS. The residual was their going rate at the time. Don't fell sorry for them. They're doing OK last I checked.

    Most people on this forum don't seem to keep their BMWs longer than 3 years, so I suggested leasing as a way to realize the good resale of BMWs and eliminate the risk of market forces.

    As to what percentage of people buy out their lease, what does that have to do with anything? I could easily ask, "What percentage of car buyers keep their cars longer than 3 years?" Again, leasing does give you a known way out of a vehicle. Edmunds is littered with stories about people being "upside down" or "buried". If you do a lease that fits your needs, this isn't going to happen.

    Now, riez, have you been burned, had a lease go bad, or what?

    Six months of sMiles and thirty to go,

  • I have a 98 540i 6spd that I just put tires on.
    Bridgestone Potenza RE 750's (235/255). After
    1500 miles no complaints. Replaced Yokohama
    AV db's which only lasted 15k and were very noisy
    after 10k miles. Bridgestone's were recommended
    by Tire Rack where they were purchased from.
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