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Volvo S60



  • aegaeg Posts: 23
    I have come to realize over the years that Consumer Reports is not the consumer bible. I understand that awd is only useful from a dead stop. It may seem silly with the dozen or more substantial snowfalls we get here that I must buy an awd vehicle.

    A question for you often debated in these threads. Which Xc90 model do you have? Are you disappointed with the acceleration.I test drove the 2.5 disappointed with acceleration while merging onto a hwy/pky and passing as well.It seems to lack a certain zest.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Thats not really true. AWD can be very useful in many bad weather situations, including rain, snow, and ice. FWD is better than RWD because most cars have more weight over their front wheels, but AWD is better than FWD when neither front wheel has any traction. Just look at what AWD did for rally racing.
  • Well I was pretty well decided on the 2005 S60 2.5t in Silver/Taupe with premium and climate. Called around to a few dealers. The MSRP on that car is $34,490. I have a quote at $31,880. I said fine. I don't know if that is great or not. Probably a few hundred more dollars to get out of it. Anyway I asked for a lease quote for 36 months, 12,000 miles a year, with as little down as possible based on the $31,880 cap cost. He came back with a number of $543 a month. Can you believe that? That is ridiculous. I ran those figures on the Volvo lease calculator and they came back at $397 a month.


    I don't know where the different calculations came from but I have asked him to provided them to me.


    I could buy it for that price. Shoot you could lease a 5 series or a host of other cars for that price.


    Is there anyway that could be right. That is paying out $19,548 over the 36 month period. I am no lease expert by any means, but if you assume a 57% residual value after 36 months based on the MSRP that leaves a residual value of $19,659. The difference between the residual and the cap cost is $12,220. That is a big gap between $12,220 and $19,548. That is way to much for interest.


    Anybody here with any advice?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Youch. I priced a $36K G35x (everything but NAV) with a 3 year lease and it came to like $350 a month.
  • aegaeg Posts: 23
    I must say that does sound outrageous. Where in the country do you live. I have had contact with a dealer via other posts that seems to have a good reputation for his intergrity. BTW is the 2.5 a front wheel or all wheel drive car. Any idea if the premium sound is worth the additional cost. I am going to test drive a 60 today and thought I would see if the premium sound system is superior.
  • I think I can give you an advise

    First of all - do not be emotional, this is just a business transaction, so run it like a business


    Find out what is a residual value (in %%) and what is a money factor (equivalent to the interest for a lease). Dealer should disclose this numbers, or you can get them from the actual money lender.


    Find out all the available incentives and discounts. Edmunds usually has them all. Use them to calculate a bottom line for the initial cost.


    Now, run your numbers for the monthly payments, that will cover the difference between the bottom line price and a residual value, which is based on a FULL price of the car. Do not forget all applicable taxes. The taxes could be calculated based on a FULL price in many states.


    Decide on a fair profit for the dealer on a top of this calculations.


    Use these numbers as a counter offer, and negotiate up from it, but never negotiate down from the original offer.


    You will surprise the sales person, take advantage of it, let him argue YOUR figures, do not discuss his figures, as they are irrelevant. Keep saying - Here is my calculations, tell me what is wrong with them? and most likely, you will be pleasantly surprised with the results.


    I've done quite a few times, it works like a charm.

    All selling technics are devised for the ignorant and susceptive buyers. But it is not enough just to be tough, you need to be versatile with the numbers.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Absolutely get the premium stereo! The basic version is quite weak, with only a few speakers and a single disc player. The premium stereo adds an in-dash 6-disc changer, a MUCH heftier amplifier, and speakers made by Dynaudio, the famous Danish audiophile speaker company. Its an awesome system, second only to Lexus\Mark Levinson audio, and it costs about half of what the ML package does on a Lexus. The Volvo system easily bests the G35's Bose system and the Acura's Panasonic\ELS system with both hands tied.
  • Lexusguy, where did you get a $350 figure on a G35x? Sign me up wherever you did. Seriously. If you can tell me where and how you came to that number all of this would be over.


    Apparently the first lease quote of $543 came from an outside lease party because they can take advantage of the $1,500 factory money. The Volvo special lease program does not use the factory money in a lease. If you rerun the lease through Volvo with a $1,500 higher cap cost of $33,300 you are looking at $452/mo, 36 month lease, 12k a year with $2,000 down. The 2k down is Security Deposit, 1st Month Payment and Taxes.


    That monthly payment is still high in my opinion in relation to the market. You can lease a 5 series for $461 month with $3k down. You can lease an S4 for $499 month with $3,500 down.


    Good advice Lev. I need to find out the residual and the money factor. Are those items negotiable?
  • Usually not, but there should be a variety of programs with the different residual values and money factors that can be applicable based on other criteria, like mileage allowance (12 vs 15K), your credit rating, etc. that can work for your advantage.


    Another approach that I just recalled using in the past - find a "catcher" advertisement, i.e. from time to time dealers try to move some items from their inventory and give really good deals on those cars. Use that "catcher" as the base for the negotiations. These "catchers" could be stripped down, without required options, etc.


    What you need to do, is to add the portion of the monthly payment to cover the cost of the difference in the options between the "catcher" and any car from the inventory that you want.


    Once again, two major points - surprise the sales person and let him argue on "your turf".


    Just as example - I helped my sister to lease Nissan Altima 3-4 years ago. We have found an advertisement from one dealer for the lease "One only" payments of $149. The offer for the inventory car was $319 for the similar lease.


    The "one only" was manual and did not have AC, so we plugged in ~$700 for AC and ~$800 for automatic. It can be covered with additional $50 per month for the 36 month lease.


    We could not get $199, but were able to negotiate $219 per month. - $3600 net savings from the original offer, without much hassles. Huge, consider $20K price tag.

  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Infiniti of Philadelphia. I asked about a 3 year and 2 year lease. The two year was about $390. Give them a call.
  • Was that a 2004 or a 2005?
  • Couple more questions:


    1. What is the exact Philly dealer? I found 6 in the area. Is it Main Line Infiniti?


    2. What were the specifics? cap cost reduction, if any? mileage per year?


  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Infiniti of Willow Grove.


    It was a 2005 Infiniti G35x with premium package. $3500 down.
  • I'm personally pretty curious about the $350/mo for a 3-year lease on an '05 G35x. Is it possible that the dealer quoted you a 'base rent' figure, and not your actual monthly lease payment figure? I know this is a Volvo S60 forum, but I think the question in general about lease rates will likely be of interest to others here as well.


    My math shows the MSRP for an '05 G35x with Premium option to be $36,590 from the Infiniti web site. With a cap reduction of $3500 off the MSRP and assuming a lease term of 36 months with a money factor of 0.002 (4.8%) - which would be a pretty good rate - the base rent would be $380.48/month I believe. The lease payment would be higher as it would include state taxes and the cost of money. With a 6% state tax rate, and a money factor of 4.8%, I calculate the lease payment to be $514.57 unless I messed up in my calculations somewhere!


    If you really did get a lease rate of $350/month with only $3500 down on an '05 G35X - I'll give them a jingle (or email to internet mgr) to talk about a coupe even though I don't live in that state. I've been looking at the Volvo S60R but am leaning towards the '05 G35 coupe as our family already has a 2000 Volvo S80 T6.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I honestly dont remember the exact figures, I didnt really write anything down as I was just curious. How has your S80 held up, by the way? I know the '99s had lots of issues, most of which were corrected for '00, but that they didnt really get everything fixed until '01 and '02.
  • Lexusguy - we have 76,000 miles on our 2000 S80 T6 and my wife and I are very pleased with the car (our 2nd Volvo). Only complaint that has never been resolved has been with the NAV system which during daylight hours is too dim (very hard to see in sunlight). Other then that, I'd give the S80 T6 an A-minus grade.


    The S80 drives as smoothly as it was when I bought it in Mar 2000. In fact, I just put another 1,000 highway miles on the S80 over the holiday break and remarked to my wife how well the car still drove. Mileage was around 22 mpg for the trip (not amazing, but not bad either for a fully loaded car).


    I do highly recommend the extended warranty from Volvo if anyone plans on keeping an S80 beyond its factory warranty (I'd assume the same for an S60). I feel my extended warranty purchase was a good investment. The extended warranty from Volvo Irvine wasn't inexpensive at $2200 but 30,000 miles later, the extended warranty has more or less paid for itself (parts on S80s can be quite expensive).


    As a result of the good support by Volvo under this extended warranty plan, I plan to keep the car until the warranty expires at its 100,000 mile point (maybe even after that)!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    What sort of things have had to be replaced in your time with the car? I ask because a friend likes the car and is attracted to used ones as they are dirt cheap. I suggested an '01+ because of the S80's teething issues, but I assume that adding an extended warranty to a used car is impossible?
  • A few weeks ago (on my 2001 S60R) I had a problem with rear doors, fuel tank door and the fuel guage all malfunctioning at the same time. The fuel guage read empty (even though it was nearly full) and one couldnt refuel as the little fuel door wouldnt open! But all these systems were working 24 hrs later so I didnt get anything looked at or fixed.


    Then today my front passenger window wouldnt close. Its great that its the day before New Years so that I can't use the car for FOUR DAYS (hope it doesnt rain).


    Is this par for the course with Volvo - lousy electronics?
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I wouldnt say that type of thing is normal for all Volvo's...however, if things do go wrong on a Volvo, it tends to be electronic failure rather than mechanical, as with say VW.
  • The S80 has something like 20 different chips in the car, most of them called "computers" by the service rep. Any of the computers can set you back $500 or more for parts alone (before labor) which is a big reason I opted for the extended warranty, combined with the fact that my wife and I really liked the car and felt it was worth keeping. And yes, the poor tradein value of the S80 also helped us in our decision to keep it.


    Personally, the S80 has not been a problem car for me, and I've had no one area of the car I'd call problematic to answer your question about that. Just things here and there throughout the engine primarily that are pricey to get fixed. Most component failures (or parts starting to 'act up) have been covered under the extended warranty. Some bills would have set me back $1200 or more but all I had to pay was our deductible of $100 per visit for the things that failed under warranty.


    Anyway - I'd expect the S60 to be less expensive to maintain compared to the S80 once it gets past the 4/50 warranty since the S60 has fewer computers onboard (as I understand the car), but that is just an educated guess.


    As to the extended warranty from Volvo dealers, actually, when I got it, one *could* purchase it at any time so long as the vehicle passed a checkup by the dealer and had been properly maintained while under factory warranty (as mine was). Further, the extended warranty was most affordable *if* the vehicle was still covered under the original factory warranty (mine was as well). I purchased the extended warranty on my S80 when it had 44,000 miles on the odometer. The dealer 'checkup' from Volvo Irvine cost something like $125 or so and part of it counted toward my regular maintenance / service as I recall.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Interesting, thats good to know, thanks.
  • guyfguyf Posts: 456
    I have the 2.5T. I'm not disappointed at all with the acceleration. Brand new I felt the engine was a litle weak but as it broke in (10,000 km) acceleration improved noticeably.


    It's not a rocket but it gets the job done very nicely. I'm not sure we should drive those big SUV like a small sports car anyway.
  • guyfguyf Posts: 456
    Yes, but my point is a FWD with good winter tires is better than an AWD with 4 seasons tires on snow.


    Yes, an AWD with good winter tires is better than anything else.
  • guyfguyf Posts: 456
    I had a similar problem once on my previous S70. Turn out that the swith to prevent the 2nd row occupants from using window switch was "in between" lock and unlocked. I put it back to "unlock" and everything was fine. Give it a look!
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I'm not so sure about that. We have always just used the Lexus OEM tires on my wife's RX, no Blizzaks or Arctic Alpins or anything, and it does very very well in the snow.
  • lexusguy,

    The snow handling is a relative quality. I have done very well on my XC90 on stock tires through over 100 miles of heavy snow storm without chains, but still agree with guyf - snow tires will make the difference during braking and sharp turning, when my stock Michelin did not have enough grip. No traction control system (which, by the way is more sophisticated on Volvo) can provide a friction when there is none. It just manages the existing traction smarter. Snow tires definitely provide more traction to manage.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    I definitely agree that snow tires are better than none. What I was saying though Is im not so sure a FWD car with snows can drive better in snowy conditions than an AWD\4WD vehicle with all-seasons.
  • guyfguyf Posts: 456


    In my case, my wife's S60 FWD handles the snow much better then my XC90 on 4 seasons.


    In Quebec we get our first snow late October and the last in April-May; that's a full 5 months a year driving on the white stuff.


    The AWD on 4-seasons will accelerate better than the FWD on winter's but there is more to driving on snow than just accelarating! You need to turn and stop. This is where the winter tires will more than make up for the time lost accelerating from a dead stop.


    This being said, I drove a Highlander Limited for a week with the OEM Goodyears and I must say they handled quite well in the snow and ice.
  • lexusguylexusguy Posts: 6,419
    Yeah we have never felt the need to spend hundreds on Blizzaks and tire changes and alignments for the RX. I'm sure we also get a lot less snow here in southern PA than you do in Cananda as well. My LS on the other hand, absolutely requires snow tires to even move in the snow.


    I would have thought an intelligent woman would choose a Volvo everytime over the overpriced crap mentioned in the Edmunds opinion article. Dont women value safety?
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