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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • carbuff1171carbuff1171 Posts: 77
    edited March 2010
    I see what you mean. Based on this event today, it's amazing just what lengths the US Automakers will go to:

    Another Runaway Prius, March 8 in California

    Maybe Toyota should start staging such events to occur to Chevys and Fords. We know that this can't happen to a Prius and that Rhonda Smith's Lexus testimony had to be a put-up-job since Toyota never recalled Prius or Lexus. In congress' relentless pursuit to put Toyota out of business, I just don't understand why they never asked Toyota why they weren't recalled.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,395
    >NOTE-one TV station San Diego claimed Toyota had dispatched tech to area to help.

    Are these the techs we never heard from in the hearings in DC? So toyota found some?

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Gagrice - so you saw too. I don't think San Diego CHP were very happy to see this!! I am certain they are thinking back to the 911 call last August from one of their own CHP officers that resulted in his death and his family in a Toyota racing out of control too.

    Since CHP is witness Toyota will have difficulty explaining this.

    Do you know if Toyota got vehicle to repair??? This vehicle would be one NHTSA should get immediately prior to anyone attempting any work on car. I do wonder if this driver allowed Toyota to take his car??

    Toyota webcast executives only INFER today electronics not the problem. Wouldn't make outright declaration no problem. Then this happens couple of hours later. Same town where all this started last August - San Diego.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I think they are responding immediately because this Prius came right after their big Webcast with multiple reporters today to attempt to discredit Dr. Gilbert's study.
  • wwestwwest Posts: 10,706
    "..I happen to agree with Toyota.."

    Well I do not, adamantly so.

    The MIL system monitor should have IMMEDIATELY detected that the two systems were shorted together. What's the purpose of have two sensors for redundancy if you cannot detect that one of them has FAILED...??
  • mnfmnf Spokane WaPosts: 405
    Come on get a clue you have more of a chance of getting hit by a drunk driver or a crack head driving around high looking for a fix.
  • smarty666smarty666 Posts: 1,503
    not sure if anyone posted this but I was on motortrend today and saw this and thought I'd post it and get all your thoughts!!

    http://www.motortrend.com/features/auto_news/2010/112_1003_toyotas_intended_rebu- ttal/index.html
  • nippononlynippononly SF Bay AreaPosts: 12,726
    Same town where all this started last August - San Diego.

    Heck, maybe it's a San Diego problem! :-P

    2014 Mini Cooper (stick shift of course), 2016 Camry hybrid, 2009 Outback Sport 5-spd (keeping the stick alive)

  • I agree that the detection failure is a problem and that is why I said that the Gilbert report was "valid". At the same time I am agreeing with Toyota when they say this is not what is occurring in the reported UA events.

    For the driver reported incidents to be sensor-caused, the pedal would have to fail and that at the same time the shifter position sensor fail and that at the same time the ignition on/off button sensor fail (and in the Prius, the brake-depressed sensor fail) since during these UA events, none of these driver inputs respond. It's not just the gas pedal. I believe all these sensors are working fine and that the ECM is in a state where it fails to respond to them. I have tried to explain this before, and with the expertise I have seen in your posts, I would have expected you to reach this conclusion before I did.
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    you have more of a chance of getting hit by a drunk driver or a crack head driving around

    You are right. So we don't need a bunch of Toyotas with UA adding to the mayhem on the highways. Toyota needs to spend their $billions looking for the anomalies in their DBW instead of more attorneys and damage control. Every day of denial by Toyota brings more damaging evidence to the surface. Unless the Auto gods are against them. Even I find the Prius incident today somewhat coincidental. Almost made for TV.

    "Who has the most hair raising Toyota UA story to tell?"
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I just spoke with my son, and he thinks an issue exists too. He is too busy to even get into all the details. Since he has auto engineering experience, think I can trust him.

    Since you seem to have great knowledge, will try to learn from you here too.

    I too, agree system should have picked up the error. According to Gilbert he seemed to start with small increments as he tested. And noticed even at smaller voltages system was not picking up errors.

    I haven't fully analyzed full video of Toyota Webcast today and the actul words used by Toyota spokespeople/representatives. Must go back and compare to Gilbert's study.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Thanks for this link of the run away Prius. This time CHP is a witness. No denying the facts or placing blame elsewhere. Saw other reports driver was pretty shaken up after the incident too.

    That is funny because CBS is news outlet Toyota released Webcast to while filming. One of first to have report up. And then one of first to have out of control Prius report too.
  • popsavalonpopsavalon Posts: 231
    Film clip on my local news had Prius owner stating he had taken vehicle to his dealer a couple of weeks ago and dealer told him it was not on the recall list. He also stated "I will never drive this vehicle again". It will be interesting to see what his options really are with Toyota.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Actually Dr. Gilbert tested different levels of voltage and stated some system responded, and some system did not. Gilbert always said "if this could happen" system just does not always pick up abnormalities. And felt further testing needed to be done.

    I vaguely remember your comments. You may be right aobut Toyot claims about how Gilbert did and reality - maybe. But I too did notice Toyota representative did leave some points totally out.

    According to one report heard on news tonight, driver could not shift car into neutral or stop the vehicle, even following CHP directions. Haven't verified if further reports verify this or not. If this is true - could that affect your theory?? I recall that Mrs. Smith stated she could not shift car either, and went into all gears to no avail. If this is true aobut shifting - it could explain the many questions why an experienced CHP office who goes through frequent QA test in his line of work couldn't stop vehicle. Push button ignition could have been an issue since vehicle was a loaner, but he would have still be trained to resort to neutral.

    Will be interesting if/when fruther f/u reports come out. Hope to see a CHP report, as know will see Toyota f/u..
  • windy025windy025 Posts: 6
    Is it true the driver tried to shift to neutral to no effect? Even if it wasn't recalled shouldnt this disengage the engine? Maybe the engine computer was too busy calculating peak efficiency to notice anything amiss :confuse: .
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Just very wierd coincidence. And CHP both times. I am very sure San Diego area CHP are pretty upset today.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    As I just posted I saw one news report he could not shift to neutral or turn vehicle off. Even under direction of CHP. Haven't verified with other reports though.
  • Steve EliasSteve Elias Posts: 2,185
    edited March 2010
    beachfisherman ,

    I'm very glad for you safely skating away skating away on the thin ice of a new day after your UA incidents .

    Same for that dude in the runaway Prius in San Diego yesterday.
    (The CHP saved his life by doing new maneuver which may be named "the Toyota maneuver" or "the Prius Reverse-Pitt Maneuver".)
  • revitrevit Posts: 476
    Runaway Toyota Prius driver forced to call police

    A terrified Toyota driver was forced to use a police vehicle to help stop his own runaway car after the accelerator pedal in his Prius became stuck at speeds of more than 90mph on a California highway.

    James Sikes, 61, was overtaking another vehicle on a highway in San Diego yesterday when he suddenly realized that he could not control his car.

    “I pushed the gas pedal to pass a car and it did something kind of funny ... it jumped and it just stuck there,” Mr Skies said, adding that he could smell the brakes burning because he was pressing the pedal so hard as the car sped out of control.

    “As it was going, I was trying the brakes ... it wasn't stopping, it wasn't doing anything and it just kept speeding up.”
  • roho1roho1 Posts: 318
    "Leftlane" spoke with CHP officer Brian Pennings who confirmed the early report. Early reports incorrectly suggested the CHP used a Crown Victoria patrol car to pull in front of the Prius and brake to a stop – but new details suggest the contact was only made once the Prius was at a halt.

    “The vehicles did not touch until after they came to a stop,” Pennings said.

    Stay tuned for more corrections
  • Actually my theory is consistent with such a report. It is based on the mounting evidence that once in the UA state, the car's ECM will not respond to a change in the shifter position. Remember that just like the gas pedal is not directly connected to the throttle, the shifter is not directly connected to the transmission. It has a sensor that provides input to the ECM and the ECM controls the electronic transmission.

    When in the UA state, the ECM does not respond to the fact that the perfectly good pedal sensors are in the idle position. It does not respond to driver attempts to shut the engine down by pressing the Off button for any length of time. And in the Prius (that comes from the factory programmed with Brake Override), the ECM does not respond to the brake being applied. If it did, the ECM brake override logic would bring the engine to idle, and it obviously does not. Dr.Gilbert should be investigating how the ECM can get into a state where it ignores all subsequent sensor inputs and simultaneously commands the ETC to go to full throttle. Most likely that condition cannot be recreated by shorting a couple of circuits. I suspect it is a program bug in software and the real question is what triggers the logic path that encounters the bug. Once the ECM is reset at a dealer, these cars return to running fine (for an indeterminate amount of time). If the problem was caused by shorted wires, reseting the ECM would not help.
  • mikefm58mikefm58 Posts: 2,882
    The Today show had a good clip on the incident, didn't say anything about shifting to neutral, did say he tried to turn off the engine by pressing and holding the ignition button, didn't say how long he held it, but 3-5 seconds would be an awful long time when your vehicle is speeding out of control. He was finally able to stop it by applying the emergency brake, as well as "standing" on the brakes. Hitting the brakes alone didn't slow down the vehicle. Burn brake smell was all over.

    As bad as things are for Toyota, this makes things even worse.
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    "...and Kyle Busch is doing a victory lap! And another, and another, and...another? Geeze, when is he going to stop?"
  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    A runaway Prius? Talk about hyperbole! Maybe a walkaway Prius. A beat cop had to sprint alongside the Prius at a brisk pace for 20 minutes until he could get in front of it and place his hands on the hood to stop it. :P
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,395
    >they are responding immediately because this Prius came right after their big Webcast with multiple reporters today

    I hope NHTSA gets the car before toyota is able to mess with it.

    I saw the driver interviewed this morning on ABC and he said he would not drive that car again. He was clearly shaken. I'm waiting for someone to try to blame the driver on this one. toyota has a plethora of problems and events and it's busy putting on another horse and pony show about "look over here, these other cars will do something odd too," instead of fixing their own cars publicly.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    Well, Californians are in love with their Japanese cars and have favored Toyota up until now. My sister-in-law lives in Orange County and drives a Camry. I think it's an older one, maybe a 2004, that's not affected by this UA anomaly.
  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,395
    On NBC morning show today (Tuesday), Lauer and another NBC crack talking-head were commenting about the clip run and they were asking if the driver had tried to turn off the ignition. The driver and CHP said he had done everything trying to turn off the motor and stop the car. I believe Lauer had said he had tried to turn off the electronic ignition. The other crack reporter then seemed to try to mitigate the damage that statement (again) does where the car won't respond to the electronic OFF control. That other reporter was mumbling something about maybe the driver didn't know how to turn off the car.

    But all the damage was already done. Prius runs away. Driver can't stop it. CHP was able to get nearby and help with emergency brake application which seemed to help slow the car and then it was able to be slowed more and more.

    But there's a common thread through many of these. The car won't go into neutral. The car won't turn off the electronic pushbutton ON OFF switch. The brakes aren't effective in slowing the car despite this driver's standing on the brake pedal.

    Scary.

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • imidazol97imidazol97 Crossroads of America I70 & I75 Posts: 23,395
    > I think it's an older one, maybe a 2004, that's not affected by this UA anomaly.

    Can we be _sure_ it's not affected? The plague of toyota acceleration seems to be spreading. :blush:

    2015 Cruze 2LT, 2014 Malibu 2LT, 2008 Cobalt 2LT

  • lemkolemko Philadelphia, PAPosts: 15,306
    Eeeek! I rode in this car three years ago! :surprise:
  • gagricegagrice Pahrump, NevadaPosts: 31,432
    There have been complaints here at Edmunds and the NHTSA website with the Prius since 2003 when the new generation hybrid was spawned. Most of the people that experienced UA with their Prius came here as first time posters. No sooner had they posted their complaints, the Prius Cult would pounce on them.Calling them every kind of idiot for their lack of driving skills. Much like we have people here blaming all Toyota UA on the drivers.

    Gladly for this fellow the section of Interstate 8 he was traveling becomes very lightly traveled when you get past the Tavern exit. It was about 20 miles past there that the CHP caught up with him and used a loudspeaker to give him instructions to use his emergency brake. I would also suspect the BIG Battery was down to a very low level by then as there are steep hills he had to go up. He drove from close to sea level and was finally able to stop at about the 4000 ft mark on I8. If it had been a high powered ES350 the CHP would not have caught him before the downhill section into the desert.

    It looks to me like a buyer of a Toyota should have to go through an 8 hour course in tragedy prevention before given the keys to their potential death traps. It should include UA, faulty braking and wandering steering control.
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