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Toyota Halts Sales of Popular Models - Accelerator Stuck Problem Recall

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Comments

  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,538
    beach....Dr. Gilbert went to Toyota repeatedly to show them his research. Either they weren't able to grasp the extent of the problems that are now public with regards to that research. Or, they didn't want to know possible causes of failure. In either case, Dr Gilbert's research and his subsequent warnings to Toyota were ignored.

    I'm thinking they already knew they had problems. By acknowledging them, via Dr Gilbert's research, it may have led to a recall, which it did, anyway. And, with more to come.
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    He has the Post traumatic stressful Prius runaway syndrome with recurrent flashbacks,nightmares and insomnia !!
  • Steve EliasSteve Elias Posts: 2,187
    edited March 2010
    thanks for elaborating, a3...
    I was referring to the interview with the CHP cop not the driver, actually.
    (the cop seemed quite convincing to me, but yeah, theoretically he could be a great actor too, and part of "the conspiracy".) :| :|

    today on the highway I found myself checking the other lane for Toyotas before changing lanes. "Oh, it's a toyota, better let it go ahead/first, just in case."
  • oparroparr Posts: 74
    Things I don't understand about the latest Prius case:

    Thought I was the only one who thought this case to be fishy. The driver's body language and general demeanor after the ordeal just seemed odd to me. It would be interesting to find out the details of what exactly transpired at the dealership before the SUA episode. Also, the reason why he didn't shift into neutral beats all IMO.
  • krzysskrzyss Posts: 848
    Some people are missing the point of Mr Gilbert test.
    He did not show UA. He showed that he can send identical input from both sensors and ECU does not detect "garbage in" situation. There is no error associated with this problem. So Toyota claim that there is no problem because there is no error logged does not hold water.

    I suspect Mr Gilbert went to media becase he was treated like anybody else by Toyota - ignored.

    Krzys
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,744
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • He didn't shift it into neutral , beause he was afraid the car would flip if it went into reverse. Way too many people only know how to hold on to the steering wheel and step on the gas, but DO NOT KNOW HOW TO DRIVE. :sick:
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Just to also alert you Toyota has also quietly pulled their Toyota people that sat on an advisory board at University of Southern
    Illinois Auto Technology Department. Toyota did say it was not a retaliatory measure. Toyota said they did not think it would be appropriate.

    Toyota had history of donating autos to school, plus gave $100,000 in past. At present all we can do it wait to see what happens now regarding Dr. Gilbert.

    Dr. Gilbert is employed by the university. Administration may want him to abstain from any further studies. The school which is #1 in nation could suffer as a result.

    But we can watch if pressure is being applied. In testimony Dr. gilbert was nice towards Toyota, and hoped they would research further. Gilbert presented study as preliminary and only a starting point. He would be happy to work/talk with Toyota about his report.

    Fact is when he discovered something, first call was to Toyota. Then he also placed call to NHTSA and finally Safety Research & Strategies. Sean Kane of Safety Research & Strategies was one who called back immediately. And Sean Kane hired him for $1800, $4000 of needed equipment, $150 per hour - which is a "nothing type" payment. Compare this to exponent - the Toyota hire defense ligitgation firm - Toyota declined at hearing to say what they pay them yearly. But report estimates did come forward & reported- at least $1,000,000 or more per year.

    Toyota did finally call him back, but no attempt was made to meet. His suggestions/findings were not taken seriously then by the engineers. And as such Toyota makes claim against Gilbert he said something something entirely different when they spoke. But Toyota had time to work with Gilbert before he testified. Chose not to.

    Still have not fully analyzed Toyota Webcast this week. Prius incident couple of hours later sort of took over my research this week.
  • berriberri Posts: 10,138
    It doesn't matter how Dr. Gilbert behaved. As a corporate executive with stockholders and customers you have to swallow it and at least make the effort to assure what best serves the company interests and image, even if you don't feel the other guy is fair or right. Fair or not, Dr. Gilbert gained some national attention and we don't really know whether he could have been mitigated by discussing the matter before coming to a publicly announced conclusion. I don't think Toyota management handled it well.

    As for the technical stuff, while it may all be true and personally, I am not all that concerned driving my vehicles, the general public is not all that technical. Unfortunately, it can also make decisions based on emotion rather than all fact. That's why a company has to take all of this into account when handling a crisis. I'm afraid Toyota has been a bit ham-handed in this matter and now I'm paying the price through lost vehicle value and demand. So are other owners and dealers. It's disappointing.
  • oparroparr Posts: 74
    He didn't shift it into neutral , beause he was afraid the car would flip if it went into reverse.

    I know...Very, very fishy especially since this is what Toyota and the COP guiding him at the time recommended. Now why would they want to see the car flip?
  • graphicguygraphicguy Edmunds Poster EmeritusPosts: 11,538
    elias...I do the same thing....see a Toyota and do my best to get in another lane or behind it, just in case.

    I think the main point here is the guy's Prius that went out of control. What or how he did what he did doesn't change the fact that his Prius suffered uncontrollable UA, to the speed of 90+ MPH.

    And, that's very dangerous, not only to the driver, but to those around him, too.
    2018 Acura TLX 3.5 SH AWD A-SPEC
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    The gentleman who was driving this out of control Prius is only human. People react in different ways because of their high anxiety levels when in an emergency. They do what they feel is best and what they can handle. People can always say how they will react, but this does not always prove to be true.

    I have researched most of the reports, interviews since incident. His reasoning for not shutting auto off sooner, shifting into neutral - I could understand considering the roadway of I-8 in San Diego. Was he right? Probably no. Maybe some. But these were decisions he made in this particular emergency.

    Driving skills & competency - none of us have any information about his driving skills or his level of competency. What happened during incident can not substantiate this either. I am sure none of you meant to criticize another human being that went through a scarey emergency for doing some things wrong. But maybe he wasn't too?? We weren't there, don't know all the facts, etc.

    This incident is valid until proven differently. At present I believe it happened, and if California law proves differently then so be it.

    This poor individual went through very scarey incident. I was quite happy to hear he didn't have a heart atack, with his known history of cardiac condition. I believe he needs our compassion, more than criticism right now.

    Please try to put yourself in his shoes. Let's make - this happened to you. You knew what to do, but didn't do all correctly. But no one is believing you. You are very angry. Keep saying it did. Others keep saying it didn't. Some saying you are stupid because you didn't do all correctly. And you keep saying it happened, because it did. This was an emergency and I just did what I could at that time. And you ask why aren't people believing me?
  • I'm very strong faithfully but I'm sorry, that one is comical.

    Sounds the same as Jumbo Shrimp to me.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    "Also last night, the office of Rep. Darrell Issa, R-Vista, said the congressman had written to the federal highway agency to highlight another local case of sudden acceleration involving a Toyota brand. On Friday, a 2006 Lexus IS 350 owned by an employee of a San Diego dealership failed to slow down until the driver shifted the car into neutral, said Issa spokesman Kurt Bardella.

    Based on a visual inspection, the driver doesn’t think the cause was pedal entrapment, Bardella said. The sedan has been impounded until next week, when Lexus is scheduled to inspect the vehicle."

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/mar/10/runaway-prius-means-more-bad-news- -for-toyota/
  • You think that's bad, you should hear the stories about my parent's '72 Toyota Corona!
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    This SUA/UA cause many different effects. Most people do not consider all. Yes, they can be very dangerous to any other people around these vehicles experiencing SUA/UA. Also must consider effects of cost to repair vehicle/s, possible increase insurance premiums by driver and maybe those who may be hit by this vehicle, medical cost expense for injuries, possible wage/job loss as result, effect on DMV record, possible loss of home if wage earner disabled, tragic loss of life, etc. Effects are many!

    Bottom line - Prius went out of control.
  • gizzer777gizzer777 Posts: 335
    Well here comes another one. legit or not...these will keep the "mess" in the headlines...Hope some good comes of it!

    This time the police are not willing to release the Prius to Toyota "just yet"

    Link:
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100310/ap_on_bi_ge/us_runaway_prius_ny
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Engineer MIT seemed to agree - more research needed. He sees a problem after reviewing Gilbert's study, and the continuing SUA/UA. And states solving will be very difficult.

    What we all are missing here!!! Toyota, NHTSA, and no one else has taken any vehicles that have had proven witnessed SUA/UA, that were unaltered/not repaired to do intensive engineering studies. And not just Toyota engineers, independent nonbiased auto engineers must be present & conduct test with Toyota at all times. Auto/s is/are kept locked up when not being worked on - where key is kept by independent third party. Auto can not be gotten to unless Toyota and independent engineer present.

    This is only a basic good common sense business management type approach. These individuals/CEO, etc. are some of the brightest. Why not???? Why???

    Smithy's Lexus is only a show it seems - as vehicle was sold, repaired, etc. Already altered.
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I just posted in prior blog about NHTSA hired indendent auto engineer and Toyota both must, when only in presense of the other, attempt to conduct these tests. This Police Chief is quite candid. Also saw he stated it was not the floor mat either. Mat not only attached to floor clips, but all plastic ties attached it to base of seat.

    We shall see what declared this time. But not everyone one can be declared just "crazy little ole dumb person." Too many complaints, and some have witnesses or passengers.
  • explorerx4explorerx4 Central CTPosts: 13,744
    since the prius can run solely on electric power, it may have still been 'on' despite the gas engine being off. if there was some kind of electrical glitch, it seems like a pretty smart move to position the patrol car in front.
    2017 Ford Fusion SE 2017 Ford F-150 Limited
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,957
    I saw the CHP officer's interview too, at least a portion of it where he says he smelled brakes. But that's about the only thing he could have possibly witnessed/smelled, that I didn't. Like I said, the guy could of had his foot on both pedals and the officer would never know it.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    Gilbert called Toyota first after he found something. Finally engineers called back. No attempts were made to talk with him though. He also called NHTSA and no one called him. He had also called Safety Research & Strategy and Kane called him back right away. University approved Gilbert's study. Gilbert was paid a very tiny amount of money. $1800 + $4000 of needed equipment, $150 per hour. This is peanuts when you compare it to Exponent getting approximately $1,000,000+- each year(estimate given in report - Toyota declined to say how much they paid Exponent yearly for their lawsuit defense during hearing)

    As far as the media- did seem to appear it was ABC News. From what I could tell this was more set up by Sean Kane. Sean Kane was one who hired Dr. Gilbert. Read Gilbert's study/testimony on government website - hearing Everyone else too.

    Actually Gilbert would be considered the least biased. He has more to lose, than he has to gain by testifying. Sure not for the money.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,957
    I think the main point here is the guy's Prius that went out of control. What or how he did what he did doesn't change the fact that his Prius suffered uncontrollable UA, to the speed of 90+ MPH.

    That's complete non-sense and utter rubbish.

    First, we do not know whether or not his Prius suffereed UA or was simply a hoax by the driver to pretend that UA was happening.

    Furthermore, we are quite certain it was CONTROLLABLE acceleration (certainly not uncontrollable) since the officer was able to guide him into stopping it on his own without any physical assistance.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,957
    A witness that isn't a passenger has no ability to see what the driver is actually doing with his hands and feet inside the vehicle. There is no evidence of UA or loss of control; as control was immediately re-established "miraculously" when the CHP arrived on scene.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I thought it seemed like a good strategy for CHP to place his auto in front of Prius too.

    All saw TV interview/report and news online report ambulance was dispatched due to driver being so distraught This was excellent California Emergency Medical Triage response. His high anxiety level could cause life threatening emergency. Exp, with known cardiac history.
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,957
    This guy should pay and reimburse the city for that Medical Emergency and CHP response.

    This case reminds me of the Balloon Boy case and that father got 90 days in jail. The same should happen to this lunatic.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • delthekingdeltheking Posts: 1,152
    Just dumb folks getting behind the steering wheel !! And try to fraudulently claim money from toyota !! Jeeez!! :sick:
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    I agree if a witness is not in car as a passenger, some aspects can not be proven. But certain aspects can be proven. After event police/CHP inspections can reveal many details.

    As for this incident. When CHP arrived vehicle was still going quite fast. Vehicle was still a runaway Prius. Brakes would not stop auto. It was only when they approached and started climbing hill, with braking still applied, emergency brake pulled that vehicle slowed to 50+- mph. Then driver was able to push ignition button a few times and got it to shut down. CHP interview and reports stated brakes smelled and also afterwards he saw evidence of intense recent braking. Of course only later will tests reveal what brakes show.

    I just can't imagine anyone who would purposely want to induce SUA/UA artificially. The risk of injury is too high. Risk of permanent diability too high. Monetary cost to pursue a lawsuit against auto manufacturer is quite high, and is high risk of unfavorable verdict by courts. Family would have to pay all legal costs, unless some attorney is willing to do on comissionon basis. Most families can not afford - $50,000+++. Most attorneys will not take a case on commission.. This particular incident would not be a good viable case for a lawsuit..
  • andres3andres3 Southern CAPosts: 10,957
    The risks this guy in the Prius had of hurting himself were negligible all along. He could control and stop this vehicle at any time he had wanted to. It was all a sham.
    '16 Audi TTS quattro 2.0T, '15 Audi A4 quattro 2.0T, '19 VW Tiguan SEL 4-Motion AWD
  • sharonklsharonkl Posts: 660
    As I just explained most people do not have the money to pursue a lawsuit!! They can't afford the $50,000++++ it would take. I am familiar with legal issues, so most SUA/UA incidents are not good viable cases unless crash/injury/death. And even if injury/death/etc. still have to have good case to pursue. It is just not that easy to win.

    This Prius SUA/UA incident is not a good law suit case here in California. He would spend more money paying an attorney to file suit & going to court- just to get Toyota to pay for the costs of repairing his vehicle. Driver had no injury. Not worth it financially.
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