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Acura RL



  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    Interesting how people interpret sales numbers ...the M numbers in May dropped off 5% compared to their April sales numbers.

    Interesting indeed. Of course Acura had to drastically drop the price to get those sales and that is a fact. The RL sold for nearly MSRP through February and sales dropped significantly after the initial sales rush of Nov/Dec. Yes sales rose in May after dealer started knocking $4-5K off the MSRP. I know for a fact that M's are NOT being discounted that much yet.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    The increase is over the outgoing RL though. I think they could have re-introduced a 1991 Legend and achieved the same results.


  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    They don't need a large number of models or multiple variations of the same car like BMW, MB, Lexus, Infiniti, etc. to move product.

    Are you serious? They have:

    MDX, TSX, TL, RL, Pilot, Ridgeline, and Accord all on the same platform. With the Accord alone, you can get DX (Yes, last time I checked, you could still get an unbadged DX. Admittedly that was quite some time ago.), LX, or EX. You can get a 4 or 6 cylinder. Cloth or leather. Coupe or Sedan. With or without navigation. That's a lot of variations of just one car, let alone the others.

    Then you have:

    CR-V, RSX, Element, and Civic all sharing a platform, with nearly as many variations as the Accord. So I would say Honda is the king of variations of a car, but Nissan is poised to possibly overtake them with their FM platform.
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    The topic here is luxury performance cars.

    Acura has one version of the MDX, TSX, TL, and RL. (Discounting manual transmissions, which represent <10% of sales.)

    Infiniti offers 4 versions of the M. Lexus offers 3 versions of the GS. Mercedes offers at least 3 versions of the E, BMW offers at least 4 versions of the 5, and Audi offers 3 versions of the A6 (counting the avant), and possibly more later if they offer FWD.

    You're right that Honda offers multiple lines off the same platform, but my point above still stands. The ES330 and Camry are similar under the skin, and there are also similarities between the RX, Highlander, and even Sienna. And Nissan has many offshoots from their FM/VQ platform. But let's stick to luxury performance cars here.
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Okay. Sticking to luxury cars, why do you think it is that Acura is at the bottom of the sales pack? You say they don't need many different variations of their cars. I have to disagree, unless they are content on being an also-ran in the luxury car segment. The other luxury makers are well above Acura because they offer more variety to their customers. The competition listens to its customers for the most part. Granted, Acura listens to its customers, too, but its customers are mainly die-hard Honda fans that will accept/support whatever it offers up without question or qualification.

    If Acura wants to be a real player, it needs to listen to its potential customers, too. There are tens of thousands of people out here who say, "I would buy an Acura, but ." How many times have we all read or heard that Acura needs a V8? How many times have we read that they need RWD? Do the powers-that-be at Honda need to be cracked up side the heads with a small block V8 and RWD chassis to get the message??? If the Acura division won't take the market seriously, how can it expect potential customers to take it seriously. Infiniti seems to have gotten the message and look at the dividends it's getting from it.

    What has Acura done to get in the game or set itself apart from the competion? NavTraffic?? Please. I would think that people would know they're city well enough to know when and where traffic will be. How often would the vast majority of RL owners be traveling outside their city to need NavTraffic? Besides, that's not even their product; it belongs to the Navteq corporation which XM jumped in to get a lead on it (Sirius will be offering it soon enough). SH-AWD? Tests show that it still doesn't put it ahead of its competition. I think its biggest raison d'etre is to combat the viscious torque steer of a 300HP FWD platform by bleeding some of the power off to the rear wheels, in essence, torque steering one rear wheel or the other.

    I would say they have the quality aspect cornered, but the RL electronics seem to be proving to be as buggy as a Mercedes.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    The topic here is luxury performance cars.

    Um, I think you turned left when you meant to go right. :) This one's about the RL. But that's fine, carry on! :shades:
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Posts: 341
    NavTraffic?? Please. I would think that people would know they're city well enough to know when and where traffic will be.

    From reading the posts here, I'm not sure NavTraffic works all that well. However, assuming it worked as intended, it would be a great asset, no matter how well a person knows their city. In the DC area, traffic tieups can occur at the drop of a hat in a spot or time that rarely has backups. One day recently, I-95 was backed up for miles on a Saturday afternoon due to a paving project. How could knowing your area well help you there? And this happens frequently. In LA, traffic is notoriously unpredictable and I can imagine that NavTraffic would be very helpful there.

    Maybe some areas have very predictable backups in very predictable areas, but I venture to say that many, if not most, metro areas don't.
  • lam2lam2 Posts: 1
    Just took delivery of my new RL a couple of weeks ago and love it :) Took me about 10 minutes to get my Blackberry working with the HFL (Hands Free Link) in the car by following instructions in the owners manual and the phone manual. No problems at all with the phone or the simple operation of the system. Voice commands work very well and I use it all the time. Once you've put the contacts you want into the car's phone book you really don't need to touch your phone except when you enter the car. You need to confirm the Bluetooth connection on the phone each time you reconnect with the HFL. Hope you find it as easy as I did and it works as well for you, enjoy :)
  • washdcguywashdcguy Posts: 17
    If you own an RL and drive it you know the great handling and luxury feel the car imparts. Just because it outsold the Audi last month doesn't make it special. And if the M, starting at a list almost $10,000 less, should happen to sell more, so be it. That car (the M) still looks like a Nissan Altima SE. No amount of options is going to change that.

    I had an E Class Mercedes and the repairs were too much to bear from day one. I eventually got to know all the mechanics by their first names.

    But since last October with my RL, I've not had a single problem or concern. Just compliments everywhere I go about its looks and features. And it still corners like a bat out of hell!

    It's been worth every penny I spent. I don't care how well it sells. It's an incredible car.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 875
    Brittany spears sells the most records so she is the best, Let's all just listen to her. The next car I buy is going to be based on who sells the most, then I'm gonna buy that one. I like to think of Honda-Acura kind of like southwest airlines. Not a lot of people like em but they are affordable and they just keep plugging away. Take the lack of a V8 being offered for instance, They are getting more horses out of a V6 than almost anybody, yet I believe the fuel economy is respectable. [ i could be wrong on that] Remember in the seventies when gas was in such short supply and we had to go from sweet V8 hot rods such as the GTO, and the mustang, to the mustang 2 [not even charlies angels could make that car cool] To me it just seems like honda is staying ahead of the curve, and yet not bowing to the publics fickle trends. Buy what you like, I can't afford the RL [until my wife get's in to private practice] But it sure seems to offer more car for the money than anyone else. Viva la TL. :)
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    " To me it just seems like honda is staying ahead of the curve,"

    Actually, if you chart Honda's development in the automotive biz, they have always been behind the curve. For example, they were late in introducing a fully-automatic transmission, late to offer a V6 in the family sedan segment, late to the minivan scene, late to come out with a legitimate SUV, late to the pickup truck party. Currently, I think they are lagging in bringing a V8, and a wagon, to market. However, where they have excelled is, even though they tend to be late to the party, once they get there, their products tend to hit a sweet note, or a niche, with the consumer, witness the Ridgeline. Part of the reason for that success, I think, is that while they lag in the macro sense, they tend to be pioneers in coming out with nifty features, ie. 4-wheel-steering, ATTS, SH-AWD (which is the natural development from their ATTS), foldaway third seat, variable valve timing, trunk in a pickup bed, etc.

    The RL, past and current, for whatever reason because it's not like the car is not a good product, has been one of their few endeavors that hasn't quite hit its mark. Perhaps it needs a bit more separation from its stablemates (V8? RWD?) other than price-wise. But I don't pretend to know the solution. I think they face a similar problem with their coupes (CL, Accord). Again the problem, I think, is there is insufficient product separation. The coupes are (were) neither significantly faster, nor sleeker than their sedan counterparts. The Accord coupes in the mid-90's, in particular, were a joke. They were nothing more than the sedans minus 2 doors!.
  • hendjazhendjaz Posts: 155
    "Acura has one version of the MDX, TSX, TL, and RL. (Discounting manual transmissions, which represent <10% of sales.) Infiniti offers 4 versions of the M. Lexus offers 3 versions of the GS. Mercedes offers at least 3 versions of the E, BMW offers at least 4 versions of the 5, and Audi offers 3 versions of the A6 (counting the avant), and possibly more later if they offer FWD."

    Cstiles makes an important point here that does not seem to be reflected in the monthly sales records. The RL sales are compared against those of the other manufacturers but each of them have 3-4 models grouped together against the single RL model. The better comparison would be the monthly sales of the RL compared with the M35 AWD (or at least just the M35), the 530 (soon to have AWD) or the GS 300 AWD. Those number comparisons would be more relevant.

    However, I am not much interested in the sales numbers no matter how they are broken down. Its what car suits me now for what I am looking for and that has been since last October the RL. Maybe next year it will be something different or maybe it will be another new RL in a few when they do an inevitable upgrade of some sort that gets my attention. Let the accountants play with the sales numbers as for me a car purchase is more a matter of combining practical needs with the emotional charge I get from a car, not how it is selling versus its peers.
  • dhamiltondhamilton Posts: 875
    What I meant by ahead of the curve is the gasoline thing, Making smaller, more fuel conserving engines, while achieving performance. I don't know about the other late things, that may well be true. Look at the success that southwest has had while everyone else in the buisiness goes broke. They could add things like first class, and meals served, but they just do what they do, and they seem content doing it. I think Honda- Acura is the same type of thing. I guess we could all go out and get the van that came out first, however, I think that most people would chose the oddessy over most of the other ones. If you want to be cutting edge look at the German cars. They have almost everything first. Great engineers, I wouldn't wish any german car out of the warrenty on my worst enemy.
    It's all just fun to talk about. Everyone can drive what they wish. I don't think that its Hondas goal to be first place in sales, they are leaving that to Toyota, who in my opinion manufacture very reliable and absolutly boring cars. [lexus included]
    For what it's worth, I think the M45 is a great car but M35 or RL? RL no question. I do think your right about die-hard Honda fans. Anything they come out with There fan base is going to like. I must include myself. I sit in an Acura and it's like home
  • acuraphileacuraphile Posts: 131

    "I sit in an Acura and it's like home."

    I couldn't express it more succinctly - it's like home. As I've stated in earlier posts, I've owned three Honda Motorcycles, three Accords and three RLs. Without question, I'm in Honda's/Acura's thrall. Before I saw the new RL, I was apprehensive. What if I didn't like it? I've waited patiently for nine years and never considered another badge! I was unable to picture myself driving a Lexus or an Infiniti, though I knew this exclusivity was wholly irrational. Is it the reliability factor? Are the interiors so compelling? - I don't think so. Then what? I'm still unable to distill my feelings and come to a simple understanding. Bottom line: I'm comfortable in my enslavement. -;).
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Actually I think by happenstance Honda lucked out on the engine/fuel conservation thing. The wheel was set in motion by corporate Honda many years ago to not go down the V8 path. No one, including Honda, had foreseen 9/11, the Iraq War, and subsequently high gas prices. But all those things happened. We are where we are now. So everything just sort of fell into Honda's lap that their line-up is devoid of gas-guzzling V8s. I don't think Honda had foreseen high fuel costs and made a conscious decision to go (almost) exclusively with fours and sixes.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Yes some good points about Acura's decisions to keep with the powerful Vtec six and how this was coincidental to a time where we will see gas guzzling autos and trucks take it on the chin. I'm a confirmed Acura owner, as avid maybe as one can be, so whatever direction this manufacturer takes, be it in the forefront with sh-awd or lagging behind a bit innovatively, never the less getting it right, they will keep me as a customer for a long long time.

    :) "I sit in an Acura and it's like home" :)
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    George, We saw Cinderella Man earlier today. If there is any way you can view this movie in your current (State of mobility) I recommend you don't miss it.

    (we drove to the theatre in the RL :P keeping with the forum subject matter.)
  • cstilescstiles Posts: 465
    tayl0rd---I'm not going to respond to your post/questions since it seems that others have already done so sufficiently. Let me just say that your inherent bias against Honda/Acura seems as clear as my inherent bias in favor of them! :)

    I never suggested that Honda is perfect, nor that they are better than other luxury brands. But I strongly disagree with your comment that they are an "Also Ran." I'm also not convinced that they absolutely must offer a V8 or RWD chassis to effectively compete, although such developments would be desirable and positive. But are they necessities? I wouldn't quite go that far.

    I definitely foresee a RWD Acura sedan in the future, but I doubt Acura engineers are staying up nights sweating over that. Do you believe that Audi must also deliver a RWD chassis, and do you call Audi an "also ran?"

    Let's just say we disagree on some basic points. And that's okay.
  • acuraphileacuraphile Posts: 131

    Re "Cinderella Man":

    I received word Friday during my visit to the surgeon, that my brace is ready to come off and that the physical therapist can begin to wean, me though I need to wear it during the weaning process when she's not present. I've not been to the movies in ten weeks and look forward to rejoining the living and mingling with the crowd again. When I was ten, in 1935, I recall hearing the Braddock fight on the radio! and recall seeing the newsreel in our local movie house. I am looking forward to seeing Russell Crowe in action.

    Ellen is driving us to NYC today to brunch with friends on Madison Ave. It's my first sojourn to the city, sitting in the front passenger seat. By the way, I couldn't find the gift certificate for that special DVD recording that you referred to. I do have the audio demo, but no coupon.

    I hope that this finds you well, and that your recent scare is a thing of the past.

  • What has Acura done to get in the game or set itself apart from the competion? NavTraffic?? Please.

    I couldn't disagree with this analysis more. Sticking just to the RL (I think Acura's differentiation in the lower TL segment is fairly understood and its leadership established through very strong sales and critical praise), I believe Acura has done a good job creating a product that is reasonably well differentiated from a very, very competitive segment. I would argue that the RL's differentiation is its all-around performance at a very reasonable price. The RL is not the fastest (but it's right up there), the quietest (perhaps tied for 1st or a close second), the biggest, or has the nicest interior, but the RL is close on all of these customer preferences with bundled technology at a superior price. It so-called value proposition is remarkable, cutting-edge technology and performance at a solid price point.

    In short, the car has little "risk" to it, provided that folks are looking for an all-round performer.

    If one is looking for more torque, then the M45 has that, but I don't think car has the classy looks or the fine interior that RL has. I think the M45 is going to age faster than the RL.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808

    George, The Demo Disc came in a blue and black (3 page) album. Inside the 3rd page is printed copy that refers to the attached complimentary gift card. The only way you did not get the card would be if somebody removed the 3rd page. Check it out. The value of those discs are over $20 each... the web site address is

    (the tests revealed no abnormalities and I am back playing competative racquetball...thanks)

  • prophet2prophet2 Posts: 372
    You have hit the bulls-eye in your commentary. Acura products have achieved BALANCE in the total picture of vehicle worth, whether by objective or subjective criteria. I'm also one who does not complain about the lack of a RWD platform or V-8 engine. I don't need the fastest car with the biggest cargo-carrying trunk, the quietest ride, the quickest 0-60 time, the most striking design (this can get "old" really quickly). And, yes, I've had an Acura in my garage ever since the line was first introduced in 1986 ('86 Legend, two '87 Legend L coupes, '87 Integra LS, ''91 Legend LS, '96 RL (current ride). And, we also have an '01 Odyssey EX.

    I've also owned BMW, Porsche, Nissan, Mazda, and a host of other domestic brands. Many worthy cars, but not quite to the level of my experiences with Honda/Acura. The former two were, as one posted said, maintenance "sponges." I had repair bills with my BMW 25 years ago that were as high as the biggest ones I get today.

    As my daughter once quipped: "Many of my friends are TOYOTA people. I'm with others who are in the HONDA camp." She tools around with the '03 RSX I got her 2-1/2 years ago after she survived her overturned '01 Integra LS (total loss) without a scratch!
  • dennis721dennis721 Posts: 62
    I have had mine now for almost 3 months and I love it more than I ever thought I would. It's as near perfect as it gets. Certainly enough power with the 300 HP V6, great fuel economy especially considering 300 HP, pleanty of tech toys are included as standard, and OH I love the SH AWD! I just bought a new Motorola V710 from Verizon and linked it to the car, works great with the new VZ's latest software update. I love the car, what can I say. And NO PROBLEMS not even one!!!
    All of you out there that are critizing this car, well I feel for you if you can't love what Acura has done whith the 2005 RL. I looked at many of the others and I am sorry but the Acura is just the best in my opinion, what elas can I say. It does everything well, nothing is in excess and the look is pure Acura which I love!

  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Ferfectamundo...yeah Dennis I understand your feelings. :D
  • ferrelliferrelli Posts: 6
    My local Acura dealership has lectured me twice now about oil change frequency. I follow the onboard / owner's manual recommendation of every 6k miles, but the dealer insists that it be no more than every 3k miles. I pointed out the onboard / owner's manual comments and was quickly dismissed as "they don't work on these cars every day like I do!"

    What gets me suspicious is that he has no justification for his claim outside of a nebulous "you'll cause engine damage if you drive with bad oil". My driving is typical 50/50 highway and city, car runs fine, good mileage (~ 20mpg average) and Dealer Boy couldn't show me anything wrong with the oil he changed (bad smells, metal shavings, etc).

    I'm inclined to think this knucklehead just wants to double his maintenance fees but am curious whether other folks on this alias think the owner's manual / onboard diagnostics are to be believed more than Dealer Boy? (Not trying to start a "let's flame dealers" thread here: just curious what other people are doing for oil changes on their RL.)

  • msu79gt82msu79gt82 Posts: 541
    I would argue that the RL's differentiation is its all-around performance at a very reasonable price. The RL is not the fastest (but it's right up there), the quietest (perhaps tied for 1st or a close second), the biggest, or has the nicest interior, but the RL is close on all of these customer preferences with bundled technology at a superior price. It so-called value proposition is remarkable, cutting-edge technology and performance at a solid price point.

    I must respectfully disagree with regard to the RL's price point. I paid MSRP in Mar '01 for an MDX and was thrilled with the deal. In June '01 we bought an '02 TL-S which solidified my perception of Acura as a "best-bang-for-the-buck" brand. We traded the '04 MDX for an '04 last year and to this day consider this '04 MDX the best vehicle (including value) we have ever owned.

    This past March I became interested in the RL and after much research I am strongly leaning towards an M35. In my opinion the RL has too many flaws for the money. At $49,100 it is way overpriced and as a result Acura dealerships are now heavily discounting them. I know I can get one in Houston now for mid $44s; and I still consider that expensive - I absolutely can NOT consider the RL a "best-bang-for-the-buck" vehicle. :(
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Apparently you haven't believed the overwhelming positive feedback from the vast majority of owners. Those of us that paid full boat for this car and are still good with it today would highly recommend that the $44s is an absolute steal for this amazingly refined automoblie. I would recommend you reconsider, but regardless of the cost, the car it still has to satisfy the owner.

    :D "I sit in an Acura RL and it's like home" :D
  • bodble2bodble2 Posts: 4,519
    Well, jj, my friend, there is no doubt if you poll RL owners, most will tell you they are happy with the car, and would recommend it. Afterall, they bought one, so it must've been their first choice!

    And I agree that from an owner's perspective, that's what's important -- that you are happy with it. Whether I, or Adam, or Eve, or your neighbor is happy is irrelevant. I know you've been very pleased with your RL, and I'm happy for you. If you're happy, then you have made the right decision -- for you.

    However, having said that, from an objective point of view, there is a not uncommon opinion and perception out there that the RL is overpriced for what it offers, including, whether justified or not, perceived status amongst the premium brands. I know, in Canada, many have and will balk at the $70K CDN admission. Part of the reason has nothing to do with the mechnical goodness of the car. It's whether consumers, in sufficient numbers, can equate $70K CDN with a V6 Acura, in much the same way people hesitate over the $100K VW Phaeton.

    I have to relate again my conversation with a Acura sales rep at the auto show. I had barely opened my mouth to discuss the RL, when he blurted out, almost apologetically, that the car is expensive! I have no doubt the poor man must have had to answer numerous comments on the price, to the point where he's admitting it's expensive by reflex.

    I think the irony in all this is that Acura more or less has put themselves under the gun with its own TL. The $25K CDN premium from TL to RL is a huge psychological barrier for many folks.

    Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not second-guessing your decision. Everyone has different priorities. As I said, I'm happy that you are happy with it.

    Take care.
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Bodble2...You and I go back a ways on this forum and frankly there is no way in H-E-Double Toothpicks I could ever feel aggrivated by you again. Despite the fact that you usually take a stance that I don't necessarily agree with ....THAT'S OK! I think you really like the Acura RL a lot and we've talked about that. Some day I hope you are in a position to own one. You are a good man Charlie Brown. ( To this day I don't GET the Canadian pricing thing and maybe you can explain what is happening there) By the way...the Honda Ridgeline is built in Canada and by all indications it is doing extremely well during this introductory period. What else is new with you my man?
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