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Acura RL



  • Nope, that's the wrong answer. Of course, any LPS being sold for $10K less would sell better than one not discounted! That's a no-brainer. No, I don't understand why the RL and A6 don't sell better. There are no "electrical gremlins" in my A6 nor have there been lots of reports of them. Certainly no more than those heard about in the BMW or Mercedes cars... but that's OK with me as I like having a car that isn't the same as the 3 others beside it...
  • Anyone have any first hand experience w/ Zimbrick Acura in Madison,WI? I'm looking at a possible deal there, but wanted to determine their credibility with some existing customers. I'm not looking for service work as this would be a buy only, but any experience you've had would be helpful in determining their integrity.
  • Autoweek today reported Acura RL sales have tanked. Acura is thinking of stripping some of the features out of the car and lowering the price. In my view Acura got greedy and overpriced it, and it's biting them in the [non-permissible content removed].

    This stunning bit of automotive stupidity ranks with Acura dropping the Legend name, and squandering the nearly insurmountable lead it had in the premium Japanese car market. It's will kill RL resale value.

    Acura has to decide which market the RL is in. If it wants to compete with the Lexus LS, it has to build a first class large V8-powered car. If it thinks it's a BMW 5-series, Audi A-6 or a Mercedes E-Class it has to build a better car than those. It can't build a tarted-up Honda Accord, put a fancy interior into it, and ask for twice the money. As it has learned, there aren't enough rich, stupid people out there who will pay that kind of money for a smallish car with a high-winding, low torque six-cylinder motor that's hard on premium gas. The RL is barely superior to the TL, for $25,000 more.

    The Autoweek article may be accessed here. - - - - ATESTNEWS
  • I think the RL is suffering in sales because of a couple of reasons.
    1. Exterior appeal - it's an average looking car, it is not a head turner. The TL is outselling the RL not because of price, but because of the slick exterior and it is also roomier in the back middle seat.
    2. Acura just does not have the brand recogition of BMW and Mercedes. Lexus and Infiniti also have brand recognition. I am not sure why Acura can't at least get the recogition of Lexus and Infiniti.
    My father bought a used Jag for $25,000 and I bought the RL. No one is impressed when I say I bought an RL, but when my father says he bought a Jag, everyone wants to go outside and look. I would never buy a jag myself - bad repair reputation.
  • Look at post # 6976 which partly addresses your question. I can tell you this from my own shopping experience. I totally admire Honda/Acura for their reliability and build quality. They make beautiful, practical cars. I would be quite happy driving an Accord, Civic or TL for close to their MSRPs. Standing alone, the RL is a nice looking car. Standing next to a 5-Series, A6, Lexus GS or MB E-Series (all of which may have their own problems), the RL just does not look like it belongs in that class. It looks ordinary. If you can find one parked by valets in a marquee, front space at a swanky restaurant or club, take a picture and send it to Acura. They'll probably be so excited, they'll give you one for free. No one wants to spend $50K on a car and have friends think you are driving a $30K car. At extremely discounted prices (which are out there) buy it and be happy. Just don't do it at $50k. Not quite as drastic an overreach as VW committed with the Phaeton, but a stretch.
  • daryll44daryll44 Posts: 307
    I live in Pittsburgh and would love to get a premium vehicle with all wheel drive. I currently drive an LS430 and won't spend the money (or deal with the repairs) for a Mercedes S430. Anyway, a $50,000 RL would be just the ticket if it didn't look like a Honda Accord! C'mon guys...that car just doesn't look like a 50 grand car. I also agree that "Legend" was a true brand name. What the heck is "RL"? My friend bot a 1991 Legend for $27,000. What a car! What a deal? Granted, inflation has crept along, but double the price in 15 years? Not when you can buy a moderately equipped Accord or Camry for $17000.
  • I also agree that "Legend" was a true brand name. What the heck is "RL"?

    Big mistake on Acura's part to drop the Legend name.
  • daryll44daryll44 Posts: 307
    Not only that, but the second generation Legend (came out in 1991 or 1992) was one of the all time best looking cars ever. The replacement 3rd gen was bland-dull-boring. And the current car isn't too bad except it looks like an Accord for twice+ the money.

    They outta resurrect the 2nd generation Legend similar to how Ford resurrected the 1969 Mustang.
  • bartalk3bartalk3 Posts: 692
    I believe the reason Acura dropped the Legend name is that when people were asked what kind of car they had, they said, "Legend." Acura didn't like that because the Acura name was being lost. So they substituted letters. No one says now, I have an RL (except on this board where people know what you're talking about.) Many manufacturers have done the same thing, used numbers or letters for the model so the owner will have to say, "I have an Acura RL" or a Lexus GS300. Etc., etc. Check out Audi, BMW, Infiniti, etc--all letters or numbers. Exceptions: VW, Toyota, etc.
  • daryll44daryll44 Posts: 307
    Makes sense in theory, but cost them in sales and clout in reality. If it ain't broke...
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    4Bearhug, Zimbrick in Madison also owns Acura of Brookfield in the Milwaukee Metro area. I have purchased new Acura's from both dealerships and would be glad to give you some information on the Madison Dealership from my personal experience and if you are still interested I don't mind if Pat gives you my e-mail address. AND BY THE WAY...HI PAT....I'M GLAD YOU ARE KEEPING THE PEACE IN THIS FORUM! Meanwhile I just want to say that this forum reads like it could use an injection from a good friend of the RL. My buddie Acuraphile. (George) If you are out there still reading this forum on an occasion please drop us a few WORDS OF WISDOM ABOUT THIS GREAT CAR. You have to have about 15 months on that 2005 Lakeshore Beauty. How's she running?(LMBRL ;) )
  • acuraphileacuraphile Posts: 131
    This Forum began mid-2004. The dozen-or-so regulars who posted frequently were either Acura owners or prospective buyers, all excited at the emergence of a Legend model change, after having patiently waited nine long years. Those postings, then, had mainly to do with speculation about HP, MPG, PRICE, TORQUE, ELECTRONICS, WHEEL SIZE etc. When the RL finally appeared at the dealerships, the original posters were joined by others who were eager to join the Forum in hopes of gleaning information more specific than had already been published. That said,postings appeared by new purchasers of the 2005RL and by those who were thinking of purchasing now that the car was being discussed widely and there was a more generous flow of specifics. There was great enthusiasm, and there was some disappointment re the absence of a V-8. Generally,the car received a fine reception.

    Among those posting regularly, Mark Cincinnati, a most knowledgeable engineer, made a fine contribution to the Forum as he contemplated the purchase of an RL versus an Audi. His postings were technical, informative and unbiased. Other postings of a similar nature followed - all intended to shed light on the new RL and to evaluate it alongside the competition. Then, a new factor was introduced and it's still evident in recent postings.

    This is an open Forum, and providing that the language and rhetoric remain civilized, everyone is welcome.However,what is "unwelcome," IMHO,is the tedious criticism of the RL's purported resemblance to the Accord, coupled with disparaging, snide comments about pricing and the aesthetic and performance edge supposedly held by BMW, Audi and Lexus. As Host Pat suggested, there is another Forum in which more general and critical comparisons can be made. This Forum seems to be attractive to many who have no interest in the RL other than to disparage it. These postings are nothing but destructive and cause one to wonder as to motive.

    JJAcura and I have been posting since the get-go and have noted the contention fostered by disgruntled outsiders who have no interest in the RL other than to deprecate it. What is an "outsider?" An "outsider" is a poster who has never test-driven an RL, has never read the specs, and has never had any intention of purchasing an RL. Knowing the welcoming nature of this Forum,the "outsider" - perhaps compelled by some personal unhappiness - tries to taint the happiness of others. He's welcome - but his comments are unwelcome.

    I've put 10K miles on the RL's odo and have not had one defect appear. I loved the car from the outset and hope that other RL owners share my (and JJAcura's) feelings.
    My RL shines like a gem and behaves like a thoroughbred.

    - George
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    George, So glad you showed up. I had a feeling you were not far away! I have to say first off the 2005 RL is a remarkable automobile that has given me great satisfaction during the 15+ months I've driven it. There have been no recalls, no flaws, and the few upgrades were smooth and incidental. For a car that has been completely redesigned this is remarkable. For me the performance has been as I say, flawless. The pleasure I derive from using the superior electronics and power with the Sh-AWD elevates my driving experience to a new level. I have never felt safer or more comfortible behind the wheel before. When you need power it is abundantly there, handling, it's there. Braking even surprises me for a 3,900 lb.'s great. I feel no need to go after the owners of other Luxury Performance Sedans because I've been reading from the best of them in that forum and by and large these owners bottom line respect one another. Acuraphile also described the type of poster that we all see come and go from this forum quite well I thought. You sometimes have to wonder what's it all about for them. Any way it's been a good ride (15,000 miles) for me obviously and I hope to keep this amazing car for a while. ;)
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    Welcome aboard Buzz. I see this is your first post in the forums. I will contact you by e-mail. JJ
    PS "Cheeseheads" reminds me of only one thing. (Great football fans!)
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Nice to see you JJ and George - long time no hear from!

    And welcome to our new member!!

    I just need to make an administrative note here - it's a really bad idea to post your email address on a public webpage and we actively discourage that (see note about it atop the post box). You expose yourself to all kinds of unwanted abuse that way. If you want other members to have your address, just make it public in your profile. That way it is protected from the automated webcrawlers which collect addresses for malicious purposes.

    And the other thing, equally important, is that we are an online community and thus wish to sponsor online exchanges that will benefit all of our community, now and in the future. So we routinely remove posts containing email addresses, which indeed I had to do.

    And with that comment, class is dismissed. ;)

    Welcome new members and those temporarily MIA alike!! Nice to have you all here again.
  • daryll44daryll44 Posts: 307
    Why am I unwelcomed here? Because I said that the RL looks like an Accord and that I thought the price was too high? Does this say "RL ENTHUSIASTS FORUM"? No, it says RL forum. I resent being "unwelcomed" here just because I had some negative things to say about your sacred cow. The RL is a great car....but it's not perfect and it's not priced perfectly, IMHO. Why can't I say that?
  • tayl0rdtayl0rd Posts: 1,926
    Actually, daryll44, you can say those things. The problem is where you're saying it. Those comments would be more objectively received if they were stated in the Luxury Performance Sedans board.

    You have to look at the RL board on a different slant. It's sort of like if someone went into your home and started pointing out all the flaws in it. You may or may not know they're there, but you certainly don't want someone else pointing them out. Comments such as yours (and many others all over the 'net) are met here with eloquent prose that is nothing more than a backhanded way of telling you to get lost. Funny thing is, I can't help visualizing the guitar vs. banjo scene from the movie "Deliverance" every time I read one! :P
  • jjacurajjacura Posts: 808
    I believe that Acuraphile said YOU ARE welcome here.

    Opinions are also welcome. That's what a forum is all about.

    But he was referring I think to the inane person that takes the cheap shot without ever having spent the time to drive the car or read the specs. The person that looks for a flaw and has nothing contructive to base the opinion on other than to bash the product. Having said that many opinions are SUBJECTIVE anyway. But bottom line, there is no way any forum can keep the trolls out permanently... It's just part of the woodwork. And those of us that are big fans of the car will usually try to keep a certain amount of class going forward.
  • hendjazhendjaz Posts: 155
    For those reading monthly sales reports on the RL and its competitors and thinking that RL sales are really awful, just a reminder that these statistics are misleading because most of the manufacturers report their sales by model grouping whereas the RL model only has one version.

    For example, the BMW 5 series includes about 6 different versions only two of which, the 530 and 530xi, are truly competitors of the RL. Same with the Infinit M and Audi 6 as there are about 3 versions of each combined into the sales report for each.

    While the RL sales are certainly nothing to brag about, the sales reports are not as bad as some seem to be taking them. I could only find a breakdown of the February BMW sales by model version and the RL is pretty competitive. For February, 06, BMW sold 902 of the 530s and 710 of the 530xi, whereas the RL was 712 units.

    I still enjoy the relative uniqueness of driving the RL, of which I am 100% satisfied with, although I see at least another RL on the road every day now but not like the TL and MDX which are everywhere. I very rarely see an Infinit M on the road and to my eyes in my driving environment the M seems more rare than the RL. Same with the 06 Lexus GS which is not very common either.

    I am sure that Acura would rather sell more RLs but I frankly don't care either way. I chose to buy my RL almost 1.5 years ago now and would make the same choice today.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Posts: 341
    I can only add "amen" to the great comments above. As those of you who've been on here for a while know, I was the first one out of my dealership with the new 05 RL almost 1 1/2 years ago. I loved it from the moment I laid eyes on it at the NY auto show in April 04 and I've loved it every moment I've spent driving it. It hasn't been problem free - I've had a few very minor problems, all of which have been fixed. I love looking at it as I approach it, I love unlocking it and starting it without a key and, most of all, I love driving it. It's an absolute joy to drive.

    If I got in an accident tomorrow and it was demolished, I wouldn't hesitate to go over to my dealership and buy an 06 RL.
  • ilasilas Posts: 18
    I totally agree with the welcome/unwelcome thing. I have not been a frequent poster, but I am a frequent reader of posts here and an 06 RL owner. What blows my mind are people who come here and spew total false comments about the RL in an attempt to cut it down and flame people. Here are examples: fake wood (, small and should compete with a BMW 3 or lexus IS (no, check the facts on rear seat, head and shoulder room, as well as outside dimensions across cars), slow (again, right on par and sometimes better compared to its competitors like the 530xi, E350 4matic, GS300awd, or M35 awd cars....check facts and actually read some reviews and tests!), just like an accord (as a previous accord owner, this is a TOTALLY laughable one), has torque steer (uh, sorry, no all of the reviews of it and DRIVE ONE!), no rear seat room (check the numbers), terrible handling (well, not based on what many reviews have said and on skidpad numbers published in CD, MT, etc), and noisy (this is subjective, but not true if one looks at the decibel numbers published in Road and Track and Car and Driver for example). One of my all time favorites is the assertion that it is more expensive than the BMW 5 series. Sorry, but a BMW 525xi is less expensive if you buy the stripped one with a leatherette interior (uh, I'll pass on that, especially for a car that is much slower 0-60 than the RL oh, but I forgot that the RL is a heavy cow!). There is almost no way to get a 530xi at the same price as an RL unless you buy the absolute bare bones one with nothing. Another are TL owners who come here and also disparage the RL (agina, why, we are on the same side!). I like Acuras and also like the TL very much (my mom has an 05TL). I have driven hers and also driven a 2006 TL as a loner, and in my opinion (again, mine) the RL is better (quieter, smoother, more steering effort, and better materials inside). Whether it is 13K or so better than the TL is up to each individual to decide (it wasn't for my mom, but it was to me). I do not wish to debate this.

    Whenever someone comes over here and starts talking about all of this crap, they are showing me that they have either never driven, researched properly, or even sat in an RL. I therefore discount their comments. I am certainly not suggesting that this forum should not be about debating issues regarding the RL, as every car has its advantages and disadvantages. However, throwing out silly baseless comments is not the way to do it, and, frankly, reveals some serious insecurities about posters who write them.

    For the record, I spent months driving the 5, E class, and the A6 before deciding on the RL. All of these cars are great and have certain advantages over others. No one car in my opinion has everything better than another. For me, the RL was the best combination of factors.

    Well, sorry for the rant!
  • ilasilas Posts: 18
    What is your opinion then about the M. To me it looks just like a maxima that has been inflated with an air pump. And why go for a 5 series, when it is just a blown up 3 series in looks? Why not save 15K and go for the 3 series? To each his own, I think my RL looks way better than other 50K cars, and many people who have seen it also agree. Everyone has their own opinion about this, and I think really that cars are becoming more boring looking in general. It seems auto makers are afraid of offending when resigning shapes. Most tend to go with conservative lines and angles.

    Still, the RL looks like other 50K cars in my mind, inside and out.
  • ilasilas Posts: 18
    Acura's (rare) RL ads are silly and off point for buyers in this segment IMO. They push technology things like collision mitigation and real time traffic. Instead they should appeal to the senses. I even think the video on of the RL is better than any commercial I have seen. And so far, I have read only one magazine add that pushed SHAWD are redefining physics. Now, that was cool and will get potential buyers thinking about taking a look.

    On more thing. We need to admit that any 50K car is going to have difficulty selling. Many simply cannot afford it or do not want to sink that much money into it. Even the M sales are small if you compare them with cheaper Nissans.

    I myself question the inflation of car prices lately. There is diminishing returns as the price of any car increases, and Acura customers seem to be particularly keen on value I think (Acura cars have always been values in their competitive segments). With the RL, I think that Acura is having trouble convincing its value-based customers from stepping up from a TL to an RL. Acura needs to appeal to the passions inherent in the RL and stop trying to push value content. They are speaking to deaf ears.
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    Replying to you and others who have expressed similar thoughts ...

    Your feelings are understandable. Nevertheless, this is a place for people to come to discuss the RL, and people are free to express any and all opinions, positive or negative, whether they've driven the car or not.

    This is a place for a free exchange of thoughts and opinions and there really aren't any requirements other than those described by our Membership Agreement, of course.

    All are welcome. :)
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Posts: 341
    I agree with you totally here. There are so many examples on this board about people who try to blast the RL with incomplete or absolutely false statements. There is, of course, room for disagreement.

    * Styling - I love it, not everyone does and I agree it may be an acquired taste.
    * One-size fits all - some people don't like the fact that you can't pick and choose options. I do - I hate the dishonest ads for other LPS cars "starts at $38,000", etc., when that price gets you a stripped-down car that is barely better than many non-LPS cars.
    * Speed - face it, the RL is fast enough for 99.9% of all situations. Who really needs to do 60 in 1 or two seconds less??
    * Rear seat room - maybe it doesn't have as much room in the rear seat as some other sedans. It has enough room unless you plan to carry 3-4 adults for a long drive or if a couple of them are hefty or extra tall.
    * Not worth the price compared to a TL - very subjective, of course. However, I've spent a lot of time in both my RL and a friend's TL. The TL is a very nice car but in no way, in my opinion, compares to an RL. The TL may be a bit faster and sportier, but the RL is quieter, rides better, is more luxurious, and has several very nice features that are not available on the TL.
    * Cachet - here's one of the big rubs. Acura simply does not have the cachet of a BMW or Mercedes. It probably never will. However, I love the fact that I don't see 20-30 RLs every time I go for a drive. In this area, BMWs are as common as Chevys or Fords in the Midwest.

    So, keep the posts coming, but at least be honest when you critize our beloved RL.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Posts: 341
    I think advertising is one of the RL's main problems. Nearly every ad I've seen pushes NavTraffic. It's great a great feature and is important for possibly 5% of the people in the country. There are so many ways to advertise the RL that would appeal to a wider audience.

    I still think back to their advertising for the first RL - "starts at $XX,000". I owned an eight year old Legend at the time and was seriously considering a new car. I liked what I read about the RL, but I just assumed that the starting price was like a Lexus I'd seen and that you would have to add another $7,000-$10,000 to get much of a car. So, I never checked it out. One day I was at the dealership for service and decided to look at it. It turned out that the only option was the Navi at $2,000. I ended up buying one a week later. I always thought what a horrible way to advertise a car.

    Seeing their current advertising, I don't think they've learned yet how to truly sell a great car.
  • kullenbergkullenberg Posts: 283
    "Cachet - here's one of the big rubs. Acura simply does not have the cachet of a BMW or Mercedes."
    I'v never owned an Acura (may someday) but I've had 5 Mercedes, over the years. The last one was a 99 ML430, and let me tell you, "cachet" didn't cut it. It was one of the most unreliable vehicles I've had. It had to be flat bedded 3 times, and there were innumerable trips to the dealer for one thing or another. My present circumstances require that I have a rugged 4wd vehicle, but when that changes an RL would certainly be on my short list. I find the Car and Driver long term report a little worrisome, however that doesn't seem to be the concencus on these boards.
  • nebraskaguynebraskaguy Posts: 341
    I didn't say it made sense, I just said what I feel is out there. I have a friend who buys only Mercedes. He's been burned so many times, but he keeps going back. Why? Because to him, owning a Mercedes means he's "made it" and he feels no other car says that.

    Just like back when the 190 came out. I test drove it and thought it was an awful car, but so many people bought it just because it was a Mercedes. A cheap Mercedes, but a Mercedes, nonetheless.
  • Thousands of people buying something else started the negative comments about the RL. The rest was reporting.

    Acura sales executive Dick Colliver kicked them up a notch telling Automotive News the RL "hasn't performed to expectations."

    Mike McGrath, Acura dealer council chairman, delivered the coup de grâce when he said, "Maybe Acura doesn't have the brand image" to sell a vehicle at that price.
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