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Lexus ES 300/ES 330



  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    I would stay away from any Audi at all costs. Yes they are nice, but I have yet to know of somebody who did not have extensive problems. Two people in my office have A6s they bought new and both have had major problems. One was driving 75 miles home at night after visiting a client and all the exterior and interior lights went off. Audi roadside assistance would not help because it wasn't considered an emergency since the car could be driven. So this co-worker drove for 1-1/2 hours on a highway with no lights. The car has also been in for several other electrical and mechanical glitches and the dealer does not provide loaners. Check out the A6 forum - some guy had his new car in the dealer for over three weeks and had thousands of dollars in repairs and they still couldn't fix his problems. My girlfriend had a VW Passat (same company as Audi) that was terrible also (among other things it died once without warning on a highway and we nearly got rear ended at 65 mph), and her father had an S8 for a total of three months. In addition, Audis are known for poor resale value.
  • The ES330 will have the same output as the camry V6 SE. pair with the 5 speed auto, it should be plenty of power for those who like to ride in a luxury car instead of drag racing every intersection of the street. For that, there is the WRX.

    I think competition from TL will be a welcome force that make ES330 offer more standard equipments. With Camry V6 eventually going to be increased to the same level, and the fact that Toyota is keeping Avalon, ES330 will be up-marketed as well.
  • coolguyky7coolguyky7 Posts: 932
    The LS really needs to go upscale, but stay an affordable large car (compared to the competition). The GS can move up in performance and the ES needs to remain a midsize, but more luxurious. The Avalon needs to stay a step below, but be larger in size with the Camry having a little less content, but a smaller size than the Avalon.
  • kreativkreativ Posts: 299
    Have to agree with Lenscap concerning Audi reliablity. I've heard they're known for electrical problems. And 3 friends with Audis no older than 3 years old have all had such issues. They're the ones who convinced me to look elsewhere when shopping for a new car. Audi's are nice cars, as long as you don't have to deal with the problems.

    According to an article in the newspaper I read not too long ago, VWs have a very poor reliablity rating. Mercedes has also dropped considerably, and their reliability rating wasn't so stellar to begin with.
  • cb1943cb1943 Posts: 9
    I've been waiting to hear if the es330 will have additional exterior color choices..I've heard from two different dealers that the Mystic Sea on the '02/'03 is being discontinued but they wouldn't know the new colors for another 6-8 weeks..they thought another gray would be added..I'm not into speed so the boost in horsepower isn't as important to me as different color choices..
  • bartalk2bartalk2 Posts: 326
    Two dealers told me they expect the ES330 to be in by the end of this month (August), so perhaps the range of colors will be available then.
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    My dealer told me that he saw the spec form of the 2004 ES 330 and that all colors will remain the same. I'm not 100% sure I believe him, but that's what he said.

    I guess we'll see shortly.
  • bartalk2bartalk2 Posts: 326
    One estimate is that the increased power in the 330 will knock about a second (not a half second) off the 0-60 times, i.e., down to the low 7's. That would mean a quarter mile in the mid-15s with a final speed in the low 90s. That's certainly outruns the Audi A4 which with Quatro is heavy and slow and the BMW 325 which is underpowered, and puts it about even with the current TL.

    As it stands now, the ES300 is underpowered compared to the competition (the Accord V6 has redefined the class below the ES300), and the current GS 300 is way underpowered for its price and luxury niche; I expect its replacement next March to remedy the situation.
  • dardson1dardson1 Posts: 696
    My wife drives an '01 ES300. We have loved the car. My daughter is shopping for an Accord, and I had a chance to drive one EX V6 sedan. It's amazing what Honda can do for an MSRP of $26k and buyable for $24k. If you do a side-by-side compare on this site, the specs for size and equipment are mighty close to an ES300. A comparable 03 Lexus is buyable for about $8k more. For that you get a more luxo interior, a better warranty, great customer service, a few more bells and whistles, and a car that impresses the neighbors. The Honda has 30 more HP, heated front seats, a more powerful stock stereo, a bit more rear leg room, and a 5spd automatic that seems to be working perfectly.
        A Lexus ES300 with the premium pkg. is a bargain in the low $30k's. A Honda Accord EXV6 is a down-right steal for under $24k. I was very surprised.
  • ES330 will have 225 HP +/- 5hp. Not enough to make big difference in 0-60. It is just a small step forward, kind of like a minor change to refresh the car. I agree the RL and the GS300 are both under-power - more so to the GS because it supposed to be a sport sedan. But if you look at the 525, or even 530, they are slow vehicles. When the vehicle gets to a certain price level, and with 80% of the buyer are above 60 years old. It might be a good idea to keep the power low, and price down. Accord appeal to a different group, which cares more about how fast it can go and less about how refine the vehicle feels.
    I think Lexus has the baby boomer in its hands, and it is doing everything just right. the volume of the RX330 is almost as high as highlander, with 100,000 yearly rate and up to around $40,000 each. That is a lot of $$$.
  • alpha01alpha01 Posts: 4,747
    I disagree with you. 15 extra hp and 20 lb ft. of torque peaking 800 RPM lower will be noticeable through the seat of the pants, especially off the line, and especially if Toyota can refine the 5 speed to be a more responsive unit. Car and Driver put the ES300 to 60 in 8.3 seconds, and an RX330 AWD (weighing 500-600 lbs more) to 60 in 7.8 seconds (C/D actually also duplicated that number for a Sienna). Its reasonable to conclude the ES330 will come in under that mark, my guess would be in the 7.3 range, which is enough to notice.

  • domettgdomettg Posts: 55
    I want to install a new battery in my '99 ES. Does anyone know if there is anything that needs to be reset or initialized after the new battery is installed? Are there any volitile things in memory that will be lost when the battery is disconnected (other than radio presets and clock)? Thanks for any help!!
  • cb1943cb1943 Posts: 9
    I had hoped the ES330 would have exterior paint color changes. Since both the 2004 IS and LS have added new colors is there still a chance that there may also be changes to the ES eventho it's not listed on the preliminary list ?
  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    I can't believe the 04 doean't have steering wheel radio controls. That and the transmission issue would cause me to cross this off my shopping list.
  • The list of changes does say "Preliminary". Perhaps steering wheel radio controls will be added to the final list. Otherwise I'll be looking toward the Acura TL and the Accord EX.
  • cb1943cb1943 Posts: 9
    If there isn't more bang for my buck with the new ES330 we also will go for an Acura TL. We drove the Accord EX and were very impressed with premium pkg. I love my '98 Lexus but feel they are letting me down now.
  • kreativkreativ Posts: 299
    The more you move down, the more bang for your buck you'll get. Nobody buys, say, a Mercedes SLK for "bang for your buck." That's what Accords and Camrys are for.

    On a related note, I'd love to see steering wheel radio controls in the ES as well. But if that's what makes it or breaks it for you, I would think the ES wouldn't be your first choice to start with.
  • atoewsatoews Posts: 637
    Location of controls being a make-or-break issue; I just can't see it.
  • cb1943cb1943 Posts: 9
    Alright, "bang for my buck" was the wrong termimolgy but the sentiment remains the same. I love my Lexus, with it's quiet ride, etc. but not willing to buy a newer version with questionable transmission problems and not as many perks as the TL or even the Accord Ex.
  • richm4richm4 Posts: 169
    Once you've had steering wheel radio controls, you can never go back.

    I'm sure back in the 60's, people who've never had a/c in their car would have said the same thing about it being a make it or break it issue.
  • cb1943cb1943 Posts: 9
    I understand not getting something you feel is really important(steering wheel radio control) I'll accept the ES300 2002 body style change that I'm not that fond of and even the slow transmission problem because I could adjust my driving method but add to that not having an exterior paint color to my liking and no color change on the ES330 and I'll just have to get pass my Lexus thing.
  • I was within moments of buying the ES300 earlier this year. I thought that the radio channel controls would be within reach of my fingers while holding the steering wheel. (Don't laugh, I've been in Japanese cars where this was the case.). Anyway the controls were too far away in the ES and I told the salesman that I had to pass. He had a picture of his wife and 5 children on his desk. I felt a momentary pang of regret but it passed. Poppa no doubt was having a very good year selling the flagship of the Japanese auto industry without my measly addition to his income. Anyway the ES300 was my first choice. Without the radio controls on the wheel however I must go elsewhere. I haven't firmly concluded that the radio controls won't be available so there's still a chance.
  • texas83texas83 Posts: 107
    In and of itself, a good reason to stay away from this car is the transmission. It's flat dangerous. Not only that, everything great about the car lacks luster when your car slogs, shudders, thuds and clangs into gear. It's amplified when you know you paid top dollar for the vehicle. Lexus isn't backing their products like they used to. I can tell the dealership I go to is really disgusted that Lexus won't fix this, leaving them to deal with so many complaints w/o an answer. This is my second one. The first one, an '02, was taken back via Lemon Law court when the transmission flat failed twice for the judge. I got another one because I really liked the car, less the transmission problem, and couldn't believe that this was a consistent problem even with the '03's. Stay away from this car until it's fixed.
  • You know, this should not be a deal maker OR breaker. But it does seem to show that maybe these folks just aren't paying attention. They put radio controls on a $28,000 Solara, but not on a $38,000 Lexus? I don't get that.

    I think it is somewhat safer to have the controls on the steering wheel than having to reach (for those with shorter arms) to the dash. If they think it's good for the Solara, then it should be just as good for the ES. Their competition has had radio controls for 1-4 years. Good Lord, even the Ford Taurus has them if I remember correctly.

    As I said, this probably should not be a deal breaker, but it makes me think that those who say Lexus does not care about fixing the transmission problems might be right. If the can't figure out how to run a few electrodes to the steering wheel, maybe they just can't fix the transmissions.
  • Check out the part about the transmission in the URL from message 3904. It looks good to me.
  • toydrivertoydriver Posts: 227
    Hey Tex,
    I've gotta suggestion for you. Why don't you trade that "death-trap" Lexus for something you feel safer in. Buick, Chevrolet, Ford pick-up - whatever. Just quit re-hashing the same stuff on this web-site every week. A lot of us really like our ES300.
  • texas83texas83 Posts: 107
    Well... it sounds good. I wouldn't jump into one until it can be verified. This is a serious problem and Lexus has been promising a correction since July of last year. Maybe they can fix the '02 and '03's with this. Of course I'm a little skeptical. Nothing like a squeaky wheel to make something happen.
  • domettgdomettg Posts: 55
    The ES330 reportedly will make 225hp. Why is it that Acura can get 260hp out of a 3.2L engine and Lexus can only get 225 out of a 3.3L? Could it be that they don't want to step on the GS300's toes?
  • lenscaplenscap Posts: 854
    "...and not as many perks as the TL or even the Accord Ex."

    This is a very misleading statement. Having "not as many perks" means overall the ES 300 does not have what the Accord has. This is simply not true. In this case, you are talking about one, and only one, feature that the Accord has that the ES 300 does not. Overall, the ES 300 has far more equipment (standard and optional) than the Accord.

    Also, what color is it you would like that the ES 300 does not offer? It seems they have all the bases covered to me.
This discussion has been closed.