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Mercedes-Benz E-Class Sedans



  • So if both tires are H rated, with one being the 245/45 R17 H and the other the 225/55 R16 H, I should expect similar wear?

    Is there any other reason, assuming no difference in wear in the tires above, that the larger tires would be undesirable?
  • microrepairmicrorepair Eastern MassachusettsPosts: 508

    I had the AVS db's on my 96E last year and, when new, were the quietest tires I've ever owned. But by the time they turned 10K miles they were almost as noisy as my snow tires. Yokohama let me trade them in for the AVID V rated model which now have almost 10K and are still very quiet. I've noticed no difference in performance either.

    How many miles do you have on the AVS db's so far? Please let us know if you have the same problem I had.

    Did you buy 255's or 215's ??
  • microrepair,

    Sorry to hear about the problems you have had with the dBs. I only have about 2000 miles on them so far, so now I am afraid I will have the same problem as you later on. Sorry about the typo on the size - I have 225s. Here is a quote from the Tire Rack that may explain the situation:

    "The directional tread design combines several key design elements which enhance the AVS dB’s capabilities. A continuous center block provides uninterrupted rubber-to-road contact while "tusk" shaped grooves minimize noise and maximize water drainage. Additionally, all of the tread block sizes and shapes are designed specifically to help neutralize one another’s noise patterns when new.

    However, one of the drawbacks of a directional tread design is that it limits the options in the ways that the tires may be rotated. Since directional tires must always roll in one direction to maximize their hydroplaning resistance and wet traction capabilities, without remounting them on their wheels they can only be rotated from front-to-rear on one side of the car. Without rigid adherence to maintaining correct inflation pressures, tire rotation and vehicle alignment, this limitation can lead directional tires, include the AVS dB, to experience irregular "heel and toe" wear which causes the tread blocks to wear unevenly. Heel and to wear will increase the noise level as the miles add up. This condition is typically engineered on vehicles equipped with independent rear suspensions whose alignment setting specifications call for negative camber, such as BMW, Lexus and Mercedes, etc."
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    I upgraded my 2000 E320 to 17" x 7.5 Original Equipment MB Style E wheels (5-spoke beauties)and 235/45ZR-17 Yoko AVS dB tires almost 10,000 miles ago (when the car had about 6,000 miles). I'm completely happy with the results, including appearance (terrific), ride quality (very slightly harsher), handling (noticeably improved), and noise (very quiet).

    I'm due for a tire rotation and have been conscientious about keeping 34 to 36 psi in all four tires -- recommended by many experts to maximize tread wear. I would estimate that I'll get at least 15,000 miles more on the tires for a total of at least 25,000, and possibly much more. I don't take corners at break-neck speeds, but I occasionally drive 70 to 90 mph on Interstates.

    Hope this helps.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    E Class inventory at one dealership in Boston continues to creep up, offering nearby shoppers a chance to wheel and deal and not fall prey to the MSRP trap by ordering a car.

    The best overhang seems to continues to be at Herb Chambers ( $1 billion sales group selling about everything including MB ).

    They now have 65 E Class cars showing in online inventory on their two lots. There are 34 new 2003 320 E's and 22 E500's. There appears to be a wide variety of options and colors available, given the spread on pricing. The "short supply, better get your order in now, thank you for the deposit" song is hard to play here.

    The other 9 cars are a few left over 2002 E320 sedans and wagons and a couple of 2003 E320 wagons.

    Given the $4500 profit margin in these cars per Edmunds, there seems to be an awful good chance to get what you are shopping for without waiting for a build and ship and pay well under MSRP. MB had a record month shipping E Class cars to dealers in October, but as these lot inventory bubbles take a while to work themselves out, a sharp buyer can get a new car at a much better price.

    They ran a "Were Dealing' ad in the Sunday paper and leases of $499/mo on new E's. (That must take some fuzzy math, a big tax cut and serious economic incentives to work out).

    Good luck and good shopping.
  • kbharris--try to figure out if the car has leather or MB Tex, since the MB Tex was cheaper (you want to have an accurate value on it). Although if it does have the MB Tex, don't be disappointed, I have a 1990 190E with MB Tex seats, and they are indestructible. No tears or wear spots, no discoloration (they're dark blue), and they come clean with a damp soapy cloth, I've even used Formula 409 on them for stubborn marks.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    This sounds like a good example of a great technology from MB that they now intentionally keep out of their cars since it BOTH costs less and lasts longer.

    If you go to the MB world wide English language web site for E-class and look at the three different trim levels, there's no mention of a 'leather' interior even in the highest-level Avant Garde models. I am sure it's available, but apparently elsewhere you have a much better choice on interior coverings.

    I can just hear the MB marketing bumpkin now: "Why, customers in America demand our fine cow hides in every car we sell".

    Get the mirror, say "Duh?"
  • habitat1habitat1 Posts: 4,282
    I am surprised that there is an "H" rated 245/45 17" tire available for the E320. "H" is essentially the lowest speed rating available for modern luxury / sport sedans. Yet "45" is a quite low profile that is normally associated with performance tires. Seems like an odd tire specification.

    As a previous poster suggested, the previous E class suspension was not really designed to handle very low profile tires. "Enthusiastic" driving around corners or on twisty roads could cause edge wear and significantly reduce the life of the tire. It doesn't matter what the speed rating is. A "45" series tire has considerably less sidewall flex than a 55 or 60 series and the "lean" or body roll of the car around corners will cause the edge wear. You don't need to take corners at "breakneck" speed, either. If you can feel the body roll, you are likely wearing the edge of 45 series tires. In the old E, I felt body roll come on around corners and curves considerably sooner than in my former 540i 6-speed. I haven't driven the new E320 without the airmatic suspension, but the E500 with it seemed like a decent improvement. In the case of my current M5, I expect to get close to 25,000 miles out of my 40 & 35 series "Z" rated tires because the suspension does a very good job of keeping the car flat. Putting those kind of tires on a standard (i.e. non-sport) 5-series or E class would spell disaster. The most severe example I am aware of was the Lexus GS400. When it first came out, many buyers (like a business associate of mine) opted for the 17" wheel and low profile tire package for looks. The car's suspension was simply not up to the task. Many GS400 owners were getting less than 10,000 miles out of the optional tires due to edge wear.

    If you drive relatively conservatively, you should be fine. But still do not expect to get the same life out of 245/45's that you would have out of 225/55's no matter what the speed ratings or treadwear indexes are.
  • microrepairmicrorepair Eastern MassachusettsPosts: 508

    Thanks for posting that paragraph; it was interesting reading. The tire dealer suggested that alignment was the problem without explaining why. And in mounting my 3 year old Nokian directional snow tires yesterday, noticed that the lugs on them also had the same sawtooth wear pattern as the db's.. I didn't mount the snows last year, (really warm winter up here) but had an alignment done about 2 months before getting rid of the db's last spring. Apparently there was an alignment problem, aggravated by directional tires. The new AVID's are wearing just fine, but they are not directional tires.
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    epn2 makes lots of sense in his post about tire wear with a 45 series tire, but my experience as related in post # 4300 has been quite different regarding wear. As I'd mentioned, I have 235/45 ZR-17 Yoko AVS dB tires on my 2000 E320 and they're wearing very well. Occasionally I do drive aggressively on twisting roads, but most of my travel is a mix of urban and highway driving.

    The 245/45 17" tires are a mere 10 millimeters wider than my 235s, so there shouldn't be much difference. Also, with an "H" speed rated tire, the rubber compound should not be as soft and therefore should wear better than a "Z" speed rated tire.

    My advice -- go for the 17" wheels if that's what you want. The difference in tire wear should be acceptable unless you drive extremely aggressively.
  • wstehwsteh Posts: 8
    I actually have not sat in an E-Class since '93 when I bought my GS300. That was two generations ago, so maybe the headroom has increased significantly, even with a sunroof.

    But regarding the resale value, I typically keep my cars 8+ years, so I don't think it becomes so much of an issue. Besides, if I want wind in my hair, I do have a Mazda Miata as a 3rd car! :)
  • I replaced my burned-out bulbs in my instrument cluster using the Mercedes hook tool last weekend. The job went very quickly. The instrument cluster is friction fitted into the dash with two white plastic inserts on each side that provide the friction. The white plastic inserts have tapered grooves into which the hook of the hook tool fits. Simply insert the hook (aligned with the edge of the cluster) into the edge of cluster next to the small buttons. Slide the tool in 2-3 inches and then rotate it 90 degrees so the hook is pointing toward the cluster, then pull the hook out until you feel it engage in one of the grooves. Do the same for the other side and pull on both hooks simultaneously. The instrument cluster pops out quite readily. I made a graphic showing the bulb locations, wattages and part numbers, but am unsure how to post it since it is a jpg file on my computer and the posting instructions are for files on the internet. Any help would be appreciated.

  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    * Begin the process of posting a message, type the title and initial text
    * Open a new window in your browser
    * Go to the File Menu and 'Open File'
    * Find the picture or graphic you want to open in the file open box on your computer and open it
    * The picture should now be in your new browser window
    * The URL for it's location on your computer is now in the url box in this window
    * Copy that url
    * Go back to the window where you were creating the post for this group
    * paste the url you copied into the following text in the body of the message

    img src="URL GOES HERE"

    * then add a < to the left and a > to the right around the img src="URL GOES HERE"

    Here's a photo of a Ohdner Calculator from Germany/Austria in the 1930's I think:


    I hope this works for you.

    Regards and good luck
  • mbnut1mbnut1 Posts: 403
    I can't see your picture. It's just a red X
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Gosh, I thought I had figured out something neat about uploading here on Edmunds.

    I followed their instructions, but apparently they don't really cause an upload to occur.

    Sysop...what's up with this? Did I do something wrong.
  • If you join you can post pictures on that site. They too have an excellent forum for the W211 (new E). I spend time there and on this site. Check it out.
  • merrelmerrel Posts: 45
    I owned a new 2001 E430 and paid the gas guzzler tax. Car was not at all fuel efficient but I knew this going in. I travel mostly via interstates but never got more than 25.6 mpg which I guess is acceptable. Just traded for 2003 E320 and went from 8 to a 6 cylinder. Second benefit is 16' tires instead of 17 inch. Once you attain 60-65mph you cannot tell difference-at least I can't on my 6 cyl. I don't live for g-force speed acceleration as many younger people do so aside from gas guzzler tax, I now get 33.6 mpg, smaller tires, less cost and I'm happy.
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    Smaller tires are a benefit? I don't understand your reasoning. BTW, some of the compacts and subcompacts have 13" tires!

    No offense meant -- I'm just curious because almost two years ago I "upgraded" my 2000 E320 from 16" to 17" wheels and tires. I'm absolutely delighted with the changes in handling, road feel and responsiveness.
  • cls73cls73 Posts: 9
    Can you purchase the 17" 5-spoke wheels as a stand-alone option? It's currently included in the Sport Package, but I don't find that package to be appealing. I just want the wheels. Any thoughts?
  • patpat Posts: 10,421
    The Town Hall does not have an area where you can actually upload pictures. If you look in your Owners Club (link at top of page), you'll find a Photo Gallery discussion -- the first message there will show you how to cause a picture (hosted on another site) to display in your message.

    PLEASE KEEP IN MIND that if you do not actually own the picture, you should simply link to it. If you use the img src tags to display a picture which you do not own, the Town Hall is open to some serious copyright issues -- and therefore your message will be removed.

    OTOH, links to pictures you don't own are acceptable and appreciated, as long as the site hosting the picture does not mind.
  • Hi, everyone, I am one the proud owner of a 2001 E320. In my case I truly didn't have any problem. I just love the car. It is a pleasure to drive it - feeling so solid and safe. I have just one question though - I just wonder whether using the 'shift gear' feature to slow down the car would be harmful to the car's transmission. I am using such function to save the constant braking of the car. I would imagine it will save the brake pads too. When I drive a manual gear car, I always try to slow the car down by using the lower gear; it's suppose to be a good practice; but I don't know whether this applies to MB automatic with shift gear system. Any information or comments
    would be very much appreciated.
  • footiefootie Posts: 636
    Hi lhcleung,

    I'd check the E320's owner's manual for instructions for using the transmission to augment normal braking.

    If there aren't any instructions advising you how to do it right, you have to decide why not.

    If you have ABS or traction control and use the transmission for braking, I sure hope someone in Germany wrote some traction and braking control software that can figure out what you are doing.

    Plus "saving" the brakes or brake pads on an E320 by using the transmission does not seem to be a favorable $$$ trade-off. I would think an out of warranty transmission replacement would be several thousand dollars.

    IMHO, Use the pedal, waste the brakes.
  • Thanks a lot for the input. I think you are right, because every time I use the 'gear shift' to slow the car down, I can feel the stress burden(i.e., holding the car back) on the transmission. It is certainly better to save the transmission than the brake pads! Thanks again.
  • I'm not interested in posting graphics on another web site so I can link to them here. If anyone is interested in seeing bulb locations, wattages and part numbers for a W210, you can contact me at my email address - and I'll return your e-mail with the graphic as an attachment.

    BTW, I notice that if I floor the accelerator, the engine builds serious rpms before the transmission downshifts. There is about a 1-2 second lag before the downshift. Is this normal?
  • wnielwniel Posts: 97
    It is normal for the lag time to downshift as there is no direct throttle linkage to the transmission. It is drive by wire and for whatever reason there is lag time,I suppose for the computer to actuate, however, I have never experienced any serious revs of the engine during this lag period. My experience is that the car will accelerate in the original gear during the lag period before it downshifts. Anything different from this I would have checked out.
  • jean7of9jean7of9 Posts: 192
    There is no problem in down shifting manually to slow the car down. In fact, it is a must under slippery and icy conditions. Most new cars are equipped with semi-manual just for this purpose. Not only you save the brake pads but it is much safer to use engine power to slow down the car. Modern automatic transmissions are smart. They will not/not downshift at speeds which can hurt the engine, they will delay down shifting until it is done at safe RPM to avoid engine stress. MB Pre 2000 transmission shifts are gated just for this purpose.
  • mbdrivermbdriver Posts: 426
    I believe jean7of9 is absolutely right. If memory serves, the owner's manual for my 2000 E320 advises NOT to downshift to aid slowing/stopping during the break-in period of approximately the first 1,000 miles. It is silent regarding downshifts after that.

    I have routinely used downshifts to help slow my car with no ill effects. Incidentally, when the cruise control is engaged while going down a steep hill, the car will downshift in order to maintain the selected speed.
  • One of the pleasures of driving my E430 is using the Touch Shift to change gears. I especially like downshifting, which allows me to maintain better control while decelerating. I am sure it doesn't hurt anything.
  • My 96 E320 engine is getting quite dirty. I've done engine cleaning with simple green on all my japanese cars but never my Mercedes yet. Any special areas to cover??? other than alternator and cap/rotors that shouldnt get flushed/washed??
This discussion has been closed.