2003 Forester head gasket
Hi. My wife has a 2003 Forester XS with about 71k miles. At the last oil change they told me there's a small oil leak and I should get it checked out. When I got home I noticed some drops in the driveway.
I brought it to my mechanic and he checked it out and said it's clearly the head gasket. He said that since it's a small leak, the easiest thing would be do leave it alone and check the oil level frequently and add a little as needed. He said he generally doesn't do head gasket replacements, even though they're labor-intensive and therefore profitable, because they're very difficult to do perfectly and you often end up with a small leak, which in our case would make it pointless.
I'm looking for information and guidance. Is my mechanic's recommendation of doing nothing reasonable? If not, how much should I expect to pay for this? Are there other options? What questions should I be asking?
Perhaps complicating things is the fact that we just bought a new Outback for my wife with the intention of selling her Forester to her parents. Obviously, we don't want to give them something with a problem. Also, they live out in the boonies where it's an hour or more to the nearest dealer if they have a problem. (I don't know about local mechanics where they are, but they really are in the middle of nowhere, so it might be 45 minutes to one.)
Any advice?
Thanks.
p.s., sorry if this is a dupe. I tried posting it several hours ago but that one hasn't shown up yet.
I brought it to my mechanic and he checked it out and said it's clearly the head gasket. He said that since it's a small leak, the easiest thing would be do leave it alone and check the oil level frequently and add a little as needed. He said he generally doesn't do head gasket replacements, even though they're labor-intensive and therefore profitable, because they're very difficult to do perfectly and you often end up with a small leak, which in our case would make it pointless.
I'm looking for information and guidance. Is my mechanic's recommendation of doing nothing reasonable? If not, how much should I expect to pay for this? Are there other options? What questions should I be asking?
Perhaps complicating things is the fact that we just bought a new Outback for my wife with the intention of selling her Forester to her parents. Obviously, we don't want to give them something with a problem. Also, they live out in the boonies where it's an hour or more to the nearest dealer if they have a problem. (I don't know about local mechanics where they are, but they really are in the middle of nowhere, so it might be 45 minutes to one.)
Any advice?
Thanks.
p.s., sorry if this is a dupe. I tried posting it several hours ago but that one hasn't shown up yet.
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Comments
You caught the problem early and it can be fixed early. That's what I'd do.
The first thing to do may be to gauge the severity of the leak by tracking how much oil is lost over a given interval (such as one thousand miles). Then you can consider what to do next. You can be certain that it will get worse although how quickly that will happen is less certain.
The cost to replace both head gaskets will likely run $1,800 to $2,500. The good news is that you can piggyback other maintenance work, such as replacement of the timing belt and water pump, with no additional labor cost. The timing belt is due at 105,000 miles. Strictly in terms of parts, the cost is around $300 for the head gaskets (with timing belt replacement).
Since we're selling it to family, and based on your suggestions, I'm inclined to just get the head gaskets replaced. My in-laws might even split the repair cost with us. I emailed a few local dealers for quotes. Two wrote back, one said $1400 and the other $1600. More affordable than I expected; before I saw your post I was assuming around $2000. I'll ask about the timing belt and water pump too.
Thanks.
At least, that was my experience; I replaced the head gaskets on my '96 Outback myself.
Thanks for pointing that out.
"That is for both head gaskets and all related seals and gaskets, coolant and oil and filter. extra would be a timing belt depending on mileage and drive belts depending on condition. There is no additional labor charge on the belts as they must be removed during the head gasket replacement."
Sounds good to me. Am I missing anything? Now I'll ask about the water pump.
I ended up spending a bundle on my Miata to get the water pump and timing belt done. Ended up doing the T-stat as well, but in all I spent $1100 just on that.
This is a great "while you're at it" value.
Any help/advice would be greatly apprciated!!!
If the heads overheat and warp, even a new gasket won't seal properly.
The thing is, at 79k miles, that was several years after the service was done, so it's unlikely the dealer botched the job. You would have seen the issue right away.
All of these items should be charged strictly at the cost of the parts with no additional labor cost.
Replacing the water pump is additional labor (they don't have to touch it when doing the t-belt).
I was charged 1 hour additional labor (+ coolant) to do the water pump and thermostat on my '96 Outback, when they did the front crank seal and timing belt.
Technically it's not due until 105k, though.
Over the phone, the local Subaru dealer told me that it would cost $1,800 to $2,500 to repair. The car is sittling at a local mechanic's shop and I'm waiting for them to give me a price.
These engines seem to be have a known head gasket issue and it appears that the 2002 model was recalled. Is the 2003 engine different from the 2002? Are there fewer issues with the 2003?
Based on a comment that I read about this being a difficult repair to do without continuing leakage, is it better to go to the dealer than to the local non-Subaru mechanic?
I bought this car thinking that it would be trouble-free and last me a long time. A problem like this at only 75,000 miles is a major disappointment and has changed my previously high opinion of the Subaru line of vehicles.
Any advice would be sincerly appreciated.
Thanks
I have replaced the gaskets myself on an EJ25 (I did mine at 192,000, so not that young!) and did not have any leak issues afterward, so I think that as long as the mechanic does a detail-oriented job, it shouldn't matter if it is a "Subaru mechanic" or independent. Before you commit one way or the other, I would ask for a commitment from Subaru through the dealer. Sometimes they will cover the cost of parts associated with the job (which will probably save you $400 or so of the total cost, since it is mostly labor).
For a car as old as yours, that is still good faith.
Oddly, the average motors are in models assembled in Japan. The "much worse than average" models are assembled in Indiana. I wonder if the cylinder heads are put on the blocks in Indiana? If so, there is another side to the story.
The CR 2010 Buying Guide (last year's) shows for MY2004 the NA Forester motor as better than average, while the NA Impreza is much worse than average. The 4cyl Legacy is average. No consistent pattern...
So far, MY2005 has been holding quite well, according to what I could see here and on other Subaru websites. We'll see if it holds up for the next few years.
My 2002 Forester needed new head gaskets at about 65k miles. I had all the known problems (head gaskets, rotors warped, brake pads needed 2-3 times at each end already, inner CV boot ripped, overhead clock stopped working, a wheel bearing failing now at 77k miles etc.). Also had a few other "bonus" ones (some front differential seal failed twice). Car has been meticulously maintained, never abused. Might consider another Forester is the new motor solves the head gaskets issue and it gets a more modern transmission.
The transmission at this time is still the 4EAT, but in its favor is minimal problems AFAIK. When (if) the CVT replaces it, performance and mpg should be better with perhaps a price penalty.
Replacing my 2005 Outback VDC, I chose an XT in 2010 to get the semi-closed deck block as well as the performance enhancement. The new chain drive cams on the 2011 normally aspirated engine are another nice enhancement.
Do a quick web search and you will see the quality problems specifically with the HG on these motors. This despite using subaru "coolant conditioner" - though perhaps getting to 125k was because of this?
Overall, the car is good quality, but the expense and failure rate (bad enough on earlier models to force subaru to change warranty policy) of HG is horrendous. We are talking about a repair bill that is 40-50% the value of the car - so is it even worth doing? How many have had the HG repaired and gone 150k? When do you just throw in the towel and move on (interestingly, my Ford Taurus has 150k with NO issues - just good luck or is J quality declining?)?
Hopefully the heads can be shaved and saved....
K
I had issues with mine, as well as intermittent overheating prior to the gasket replacement, and finally took the time to tear it all down and replace at 192,000 miles. I had the car another 28,000 miles and had no further problems with them. When I had it tore down, I put a straight edge across the heads and could not perceive any warpage, so I simply assumed they were fine and plowed ahead.