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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • gam2gam2 Posts: 316
    tblazed:I'm not sure a you'd see a 10% increase in gas mileage going from a 3.42 to a 3.73 ratio.
    That would mean a 20% increase going from a 3.42 to a 4.10 ratio. It takes a given amount of horsepower to drive the vehicle a certain speed. As slow as these engines turn on the highway, the difference is probably 2-3% between ratios, otherwise GM would have to reflect that difference in the window sticker. BTW, I got 22.2 mpg in my Bravada (3.73's) on a trip from the Twin Cities to Milwaukee.

  • onlyagirlonlyagirl Posts: 45 plain English.....what is a pcm or a tsb? and drive by wire?
  • richlavoierichlavoie Posts: 56
    You did the right thing by getting the normal axle ratio (3.42). The only real reason one would chose something higher is for towing purposes. Lets put it this way: With your truck, you could easily pull 4000 lbs (specs say more then 5000). So 3.42 is more then enough to pull your truck and 8 pax! I took 3.73 because I intend to tow, and it gives more pull power as the engine revs faster. In town driving, a higher axle ratio will be quicker on acceleration and cheaper on gaz. On the highway, the higher ratio will be harder on gaz.

    Trust me, you picked the right one for you.

    PCM - TSB

    I am not sure of the right meaning of the abreviation but in plain english a PCM is an update to a program in one of the computer of your vehicle done by your dealer. A TSB is the announcement that something can be done to fix a common problem. Its not a recall, but it provides information to the dealers on how to fix something that has been noticed in many vehicles. For example, if Veh X has problem Y, then there is a TSB stipulating that a PCM will fix it.

  • zueslewiszueslewis Posts: 2,353
    The PCM is THE COMPUTER, not the program. The PCM is reprogrammed with an updated program to make performance changes.

    TSB - Technical Service Bulletin - a message that goes out to dealers first, to provide technicians a method of repairing a vehicle that the manufacturer believes will work (especially for unusual problems). TSBs are published in the NHTSA website:

    Go to the site, follow the directions, filling in your vehicle's information - try not to get too specific, it only slows you down. There aren't that many TSBs on the triplets, so it's easy to see all that apply.
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237
    Hello Everyone,

    Wow.. it's great to see that since November 2002, this forum continues to hold the TOP TEN HOT TOPICS title! For those whom followed the posts prior to November 2002, I too once owned a 2002 Envoy SLT loaded to the gills with DVD, 6-Disc Bose and the 4.10 axle.

    I opted to get "rid" of my Envoy due to the ongoing problems/issues/concerns that made me question the overall reliability of this vehicle. Originally, I decided to replace my 02 Envoy with a 2003 Yukon Denali but once I started thinking about it, the design is a little dated and will more than likely be refreshed soon. As opposed to purchasing a Denali right away, I decided to wait and carefully see what the competition had to offer or even wait for the new 2004 models to hit the showrooms.

    Needless to say, I have had a chance to test out many of the new SUV contenders and cross-overs (incl. Infiniti's FX-45) and constantly found myself comparing the features of my Envoy to everything else on the market. Needless to say, basically NONE of the non-GM contenders offered the highly innovative features that were present in my 2002 Envoy. For instance, the 2003 Lincoln Navigator is a very nice vehicle, but the reversing mirrors are downright horrible, acceleration was terrible and the pricing was even worse! The mirror do not give you a true "curb view" when the vehicle is in reverse. When I asked the salesman about this, I was told that you could NOT fine tune the reversing setting on the mirror like I could with my Envoy!

    Long story short, it seems that virtually all the vehicles that I had been somewhat interested in could not touch the Envoy's features at all! NONE offered the multi-zone heated seat option, most simply have ON/OFF -- HIGH/LOW settings. Most DIC's on the competitor vehicles were not as flexible as the triplets. Most simply contained ON/OFF settings. The Toyota 4-Runner Limited had a very claustophobic feeling and the seating position was not very comfortable at all, in addition to having NO programmable features! The Lincoln Aviator was a JOKE and does not even come with an electrochromatic rear view mirror BUT the Explorer and Mountaineer does? What gives! I could go on and on, but I think that you all understand where I am going with this.

    Want to hear a funny story? I test drove a Infiniti FX-45 on a cold/snowy day here in Columbus, OH and while out on the test drive, my sales rep instructed me to turn onto an abandoned store parking lot to test out the sure-footedness of the cross-over. Well.. about 15 seconds into our excursion, we found ourselves STUCK in snow that was NOT entirely deep at all! So.. as I am flooring the gas trying to get the vehicle un-stuck, my salesman is outside in his black slacks and dress shoes standing in snow that was not quite mid-calf, attempting to push the vehicle out of the snow! At this point, I am completely disgusted at this beautiful vehicle with beautiful factory 20 inch wheels, rear back up camera, no key ignition, adaptive cruise control and a throaty/muscular V-8 engine. Luckily, the ATV/Motorcycle dealership was within viewing range. The store owner saw our dilemma and rode out on an ATV to help us get the vehicle out of the parking lot. Umm.. Yeah.. $52,000 for a vehicle that cannot handle medium-level snow? NOT!

    After careful consideration (and help to the person who posted the links on this site concerning the changes for the 2004 triplets), I have decided to take the PLUNGE again (of course hoping and praying that this one will be perfect.. or almost perfect) and purchase a Pewter 2003 Envoy XL SLT with the V-8 and the 3.73 axle, DVD, 6-Disc Bose... loaded to the gills! Why wait for a 2004 when the decontenting continues! I much rather prefer my 4 way power lumbar over the power adjustable pedals, navigation system could be nice, but looks as if you lose the 6-disc changer! Also, I like the neon rear brake lamp over the new bargain basement special that they will use in the 2004 models! I hope to take delivery this upcoming Wednesday or Saturday if my time will allow for me to make a quick 170 mile trip!

    After carefully searching GM Buypower, I was only able to find ONE Envoy SLT XL within the state of Ohio that wasn't missing any options and the color that I wanted. I went to this dealership (while in route to my hometown in Michigan) this past weekend to check out the vehicle. I must say that I was completely overwhelmed by the large/mass quantities of Envoy's this dealership had in their possession! I guess that's why the incentives (yes.. in addition to 0% for 60 months) are so good? I am looking at an additional $2K off of the GM Employee pricing! Prior to acquainting myself with anyone in sales, I had to find the vehicle on the lot first and thoroughly inspect the exterior. After driving through acres and acres of Envoy's, I finally found mine...of course, she was the VERY LAST one all the way in the rear of the dealership! Still covered in plastic, I met with my sales rep and took her for a test drive.

    First Impressions: GM!! MAKE THE V-8 AN OPTION IN ALL OF THE TRIPLETS! It was wonderful! The vehicle ONLY had 3 miles on it, so I was sure not to put my foot in it! I was amazed at how easily and effortlessly the vehicle accelerated up to speed. I even rounded the corner and lightly tapped the accelerator to find the back end trying to get "loose!" How can I describe it best? GOBS OF TORQUE! I reset the DIC as we entered the freeway and over our 8 mile test drive, I averaged 19.9 mpg at 65 mph cruising speed! The engine is sooo smooth and quiet, you barely knew that the vehicle is running without glancing over at the tach! I liked my 2002 6 cylinder, but the V-8 definitely makes a difference and I feel much better whipping out into traffic or merging on the freeway with the A/C running! SIDE NOTE: Does anyone know if the V-8's utilize the "drive by wire" technology equipped in the 6 cylinder models?

  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237
    I had a chance to play with the XL features liked the rear seat climate controls! I wasn't too thrilled to see that the center console vents are not present on the XL.. instead you get a plastic cover that makes it seem as if something is missing but I will live with it. I noticed that on the highest setting, the unit definitely has a LOT of power! Excellent for those summer time hot days! Also, the "bat wings" (or rear venting quarter windows) were nice for venting out the interior in hot weather. Even on the freeway, the interior noise level with the quarter windows open was very minimal. I definitely appreciate that and I am quite sure that my dogs will dig it as well. Also, the 3rd row seats are definitely functional! Much more so than my father's 2002 Yukon Denali. Being 6 ft. in height, I was able to sit back there comfortably! The cargo shelf is a nice touch, however I will probably take mine out and put it in the basement. I prefer to have access to the rear floor compartment.

    I must say that my overall impressions of the 2003's were good, but then I had to sigh when I thought of the features that I lost in my Magnetic Red 2002 Envoy SLT. I will most definitely miss the lighted glove compartment, outside dimming driver's side mirror and most importantly, the ARTICULATING HEADREST!

    After carefully searching this board, I was really not able to find any postings from anyone who have successfully installed either of these things on their 2003's? IF the wiring is already in place, I would like to take a shot at installing the electrochromatic outside signaling mirror and the light in the glove box. I've already learned that I can easily install the articulating headrest with very little effort and that's a plus. Also, to ensure me continual piece of mind, I am definitely opting for an extended warranty again! Normally, I would purchase a GMPP at GM employee cost, but after a recent bout with the service department and the GMPP rep over my aunt's 2002 Trailblazer LTZ (posting 11264), I have decided to go 3rd party. It looks as if it will be between 1Source Auto or Warranty Gold and I am definitely looking at their top of the line, 10yr/100,000 warranty plans. Anyone have any information concerning these companies that they would like to share?? Good and Bad?

    To all the triplet owners out there, wish me luck on my 2nd time around! Hopefully I can enjoy a higher level of trouble free motoring and any information that you all could provide concerning these upgrades would be greatly appreciated. More so than anything, I just need to find out if the connections are still present for the mirror and the light in the glove compartment. Also, my level of confidence is higher this time around because I do think that GM ironed out "most" of the annoyances that plagued the 2002 models!

    Sorry for the long post, but thanks for reading!

    Happy Motoring!


    PS: Tlauro.. I will definitely get you a pic of the 2003 beauty to post on your website next to my old 2002 gal! :-)
  • onlyagirlonlyagirl Posts: 45
    Thanks for your quick replies.......I will check out that site zeus......and rich thanks for making me feel better about opting with the standard axle I was right it does have to do with towing Envoy did get on a gravel road today but it will not see much of that and while my brother in law was eyeing the trailer hitch thingy I am almost positive I will not be hauling his boat around......

    iexplor2000 good luck on your purchase I hope you will be more satisfied this time.....
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    ":I'm not sure a you'd see a 10% increase in gas mileage going from a 3.42 to a 3.73 ratio".

    That's why I said "5-10% better MPG on the highway". MAYBE up to a 10% better highway MPG going from 4.10 to 3.42. I did say you will see a 10% increase in engine RPMs with each higher numerical ratio.

    Tim, did you buy another Delco battery? If not what did they do about the "dedicated" battery housing-case? Seems to me the way GM designed that fancy ventillated battery housing you're restricted to ONLY Delco-brand batteries. It's hard if not impossible to find a different brand that doesn't include the top terminals. I considered the Optima sprial cell battery but that would require ditching the battery housing or severely modifying it to fit the battery.
  • kpp14kpp14 Posts: 62
    What a great cruising weekend that was! (sunroof open, tunes on, pitch cell phone over the shoulder into the back and give your 4.2 a drink)
    Clocked 500km (310 miles) mostly on our hiways in greater Toronto. Our city is very well serviced with many divided hiways upto 12 lanes wide and smooth as a billards table as well. The average speed in the fast lane is 130kmh (80mph). The cops may pick and choose individuals speeding but they can't pull over whole hiways.
    I'm taking my 2002 black Envoy (41,000km / 25,500m) for its regular service tomorrow. Some guy asked me if it was new. No but the lotions and potions from Maquires make it look so!
    Thanks to you people I,m armed to the teeth with info from the NHTSA site, VCI info and I even copyed some of your postings describing various concerns (engine to transmission) . My service centre treats me like gold and suspect everything will be done and then some.
    I did not see any postings on the radio signal turning off and on (it happens more when it is cold), ive got a reverse light full of condensation, the caulking job on the tailgate sucks, my daughter put the boots to the rear cup holder, the transmission has a problem up shifting.

    Dennis.....excellant bla bla bla
    Rich.......are we the only two North of the border?
  • richlavoierichlavoie Posts: 56
    I was wondering the same thing for a while, but I have seen quite a number of tripplets on the road this spring. Mostly Envoy in my part of the country. Do they ever look good!!! I am only getting mine in 24 days, 6 hours and 57 minutes (well 24 days anyway) and my camping trailer is just waiting to take its first annual trip!

    Onlyagirl. It is very funny to read a post about "the hitch thingy" on this board. Most of the time, it takes me hours to figure our what people are saying! But stick to this board. Some guys really know what they are talking about and they are very helpful.
  • elevatorguyelevatorguy Posts: 87
    I have an 03 TrailBlazer LT with around 500 miles on it. Yesterday I was on the highway and, when I was going through a toll booth, I notices a squeaking/squealing noise from about 5 to 15 MPH. It is very hard to describe other than a squealing or squeaking noise. It is not really loud and, like I said, doesn't start until about 5 MPH and goes away at about 15 MPH. It is hard to hear unless I am next to a building or something on the drivers side, so I am assuming that it's a wheel on the drivers side. Anyone have any experience with a squeaky wheel on these TB's? I did a little more reserach and here is what I found:
    -It does it in drive and reverse. Could the tranny be the culprit here? I can hear the "whine" that the tranny normaly makes when accelerating in reverse.
    -It makes the noise when I shift from drive to neutral also, so I am thinking the tranny is not the cause. As I coast in neutral at the 5-15 MPH speed it still makes the squeak.
    -Moving the front wheels left to right and back while the noise is being made has no effect on it.
    -Applying the brakes also has no effect on it, except to stop trhe noise when the vehicle stops.
    Also, I am not totally sure that the noise goes away after 15 MPH, but at least that's the speed where outside road noise keeps me from hearing it.
    -Also, with the windows up, I can't hear it at all and if I am not next to something that will echo the noise (a building, etc.) I can't hear it either so that gives you an idea of how loud it is.
    So, anyone have any ideas? Tranny, transfer case, front end, rear end...or maybe just a wheel bearing? Please post back and any suggestions are greatly appreciated.

    Thanks in advance,
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Posts: 100
    "SIDE NOTE: Does anyone know if the V-8's utilize the "drive by wire" technology equipped in the 6 cylinder models?"

    Yes it is "drive by wire".

    Good Luck with your new ride.
  • cparise1cparise1 Posts: 109
    reminding us of the Triplet features. I enjoy the heck out of mine.
    2002 Envoy XL SLT Polo Green build date 5/02, Bose/limited slip/running boards. Added GM accessories 4 all black mud flaps/bug guard. Soon to be added accessory: WAAG front runner. I am sticking with all black accessories which compliment the paint which is awesome-- could be the extra money I dumped on the "Protector" package. I use a silicone blade to dry the truck after washing. Never been touched by a chamois.
  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237
    Thanks for responding. Yes, these vehicles are definitely loaded with plenty of creature comforts. It's a shame that the 2004's will be decontented further! Why ruin a good thing?

    Ok.. I've been searching the internet to find information on true HID headlamp conversion kits for the triplets. During my search, it appears that Philips has led the charge in HID systems to date and has a fairly good amount of information available via their website. Unfortunately, I have yet to find any articles related to vehicles that utilize the regular low beam as DRL (daytime running lights) and as a night time application as well. The Envoy's use the same "upper" light for the DRL's and regular illumination at night, therefore this may pose a problem if I were to purchase a HID kit. Basically, the HID lamps would remain illuminated all day, everyday which could definitely cut down on the life expectancy of the HID bulb. At any route, I did find one website that was quite often referred to on the site. If any of you are interested, check out and view their pic gallery. There is a full illustration conversion of a GMC Envoy over to the HID system.

    I think that I am going to e-mail the store and ask them how the HID system would work for vehicles that utilize the low beam's as DRL's? Additionally, maybe some of you might have more information regarding this? Anyone attempted to convert their lamps?


  • kpp14kpp14 Posts: 62
    Todd (elevatorguy...good handle)

    I had a very similar problem or squeak when I picked up my Envoy SLT a year ago. Drove me crazy! How do you describe such a thing to the dealer with ten people standing around. At the risk of sounding like an idiot...I did. This service tech across the room pipes up and says he knows exactly whats wrong and exclaims he received some type of GM medal for finding it. Sure. Three people from the same dealership had the same problem!
    Go out to the truck and try lubricating the right hinge on the hood! That worked for three Envoys that I know!
  • onlyagirlonlyagirl Posts: 45
    I have learned alot already....I'm just glad the guys here didn't laugh at my questions or descriptions.... :) at least if they did they did it quietly at their keyboards!.....You should hear me at the dealership when I try to describe problems...(with previous vehicles...not this one...yet)

  • iexplore2000iexplore2000 Posts: 237
    Sorry... I forgot to thank you for wishing me luck with my new vehicle. I did acknowlege cparise1 already! Thanks again.. You know.. I am kinda liking the sound of "2nd Time Around!" Hmm.. now if I can squeeze that on a personalized license plate, I would be one happy camper!

  • gator36gator36 Posts: 294
      After a year and 3 months in our 02 Trailblazer LS, we are bidding it goodbye. This has been a wonderful vehicle to my family. Unfortunately it will no longer old our expanding family and we must go larger. We have traded it in on a 2003 Chevy Tahoe for which we got an excellent deal. I must say in the last 15 months of ownership, I barely remember what it has needed.
    1. A trip for a PCM reprogram for fan noise and rear license plate frame gasket.
    2. A burnt bulb and a second PCM update.

    Various oil changes and tire rotations.

    I hear people talk about fit and finish in their expensive compettitors vehicles. I must say this our TB was done excellent.

    So I must say goodby to everyone and enjoy your vehicles.

  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    elevatorguy When the truck is at idle and I just VERY lightly tap the gas pedal, the engine almost stalls for a split second before it revs up.

    jr45 My '03 Bravada does that little stumble or hesitation when you slightly press the accelorator from an idle.

    Can report that my '02 TB definitely does NOT do that. Move the accellerator the slightest less than 1mm no lag or delay at all. So, that lag or delay is likely not a characteristic of the drive-by-wire system. There IS hope with a future upgrade in the PCM programming. The most recent PCM program versions for my '02 didn't get released til early '03.
  • kgowardkgoward Posts: 10
    Hello everyone. Just got my second Trailblazer. New '03 LT. I am so happy that they increased the fuel tank size to 22 gallons.
    Anyways...I was intrested in replacing the headlights to a brighter light and was wondering if anyone has done so already and if so what kind of bulb? Have you noticed improvment in the light pattern.
    I do a lot of driving on dark country roads and if the moon isn't full it's going to be hard to see.
  • 2002envoy2002envoy Posts: 4
                     PLEASE HELP!
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059

    No, I cannot but I do have the remedy for those caps (which come across as SHOUTING!).

    Press the "Caps Lock" key next to your left pinky until the little green light on the right side of your keyboard is extinguished! :-)

    tidester, host
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    You should be receiving an invitation to visit the dealer (and waste an hour or two of your time for a "fix" for a problem that should not exist in the first place) any ol' day now.

    The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) has released the following information.

    Models: Chevrolet TrailBlazer/TrailBlazer EXT Year: 2002

    GMC Envoy/Envoy XL Year: 2002

    Oldsmobile Bravada Year: 2002

    Number Potentially Involved: 314,300

    Dates of Manufacture: October 2000 – March 2003

    Noncompliance: Certain sport utility vehicles fail to comply with the requirements of Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards No. 101, “Control Location, Identification, and Illumination” and No. 208, “Occupant Crash Protection.” These vehicles have an intermittent condition during vehicle start-up in which the instrument panel cluster may not properly power up, resulting in most of the displays, telltale lights, and functions being inoperative.

    Remedy: Dealers will reprogram the instrument panel cluster. The manufacturer has reported that owner notification is expected to begin during April 2003. Owners may contact Chevrolet at 1-800-222-1020, GMC at 1-800-462-8782, or Oldsmobile at 1-800-442-6537.

    [NHTSA Recall No. 03V096/GM Recall No. 03013].
  • This past weekend the Envoy would do nothing when the key was turned. Got a simple click, then nothing. Thought it might be the battery but after 15 minutes, I tried again and voila it starts. Happenned 2 times in last 3 days. I brought it to the dealer, they see no codes and they tested everything OK. When dead, I called onstar and they too saw no codes. The dealer tells me to take it home and have it towed in when it happens again (without retrying). Has anyone seen this before? Any suggestions I should follow up with the dealer?
  • nuyorkahnuyorkah Posts: 100
    Here's a TSB for the problem.
    The Dealership will check to see if the IPC needs reprograming.
    If so its a simple fix.

    TSB# 02-08-49-004A - (11/01/2002)

    Instrument Panel Cluster (IPC) Gauges Read Zero at Times, Gauges Inoperative at Times (Reprogram IPC) #02-08-49-004A - (11/01/2002)

    2002 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer EXT
    2002 GMC Envoy, Envoy XL
    2002 Oldsmobile Bravada

    Some customers may comment that at times all the IPC gauges are inoperative or read zero at times.

    The IPC cluster module receives information to position the gauges when the key is turned from OFF to ON/START. Random electrical interference with this data information on the serial data line may interrupt the receipt of the information by the IPC. When the IPC data information signal is compromised, the IPC will set the gauges to zero for that complete ignition cycle. The gauges may work properly on the next ignition cycle, if the ignition was off for approximately five minutes prior to the next ignition cycle.
  • garywgaryw Posts: 116
    Hello - we looked at the Envoy XL this weekend and still are unsure. We need to hold three car seats in the middle row more often than not.

    We tested it but there is nothing like real world experiences. If anyone is using three car seats across the middle row. Please share your opinion so that we can make an educated decision.

    Thanx in advance.
  • rainersrainers Posts: 50
    What does this site tell me when I enter my VIN? Does it tell me what is availble? or what has been done?
  • kgbkahnkkgbkahnk Posts: 89
    I've got a 4 year old and an 8 month old, so I run with a forward facing car seat and an infant carrier with base 100% of the time. Quite frequently, however, we need to take along another child with another car seat, so we start the jockeying process. It can be done. However, I'm fairly certain that I wouldn't want cram the little buggers in there like that on a day in, day out basis. It's a pretty tight fit, but not a whole light tighter than in my brother's Tahoe.
  • hillflahillfla Posts: 90
    Does anyone know if you can have heated seats installed in the SLE version of the Envoy? I have the cloth seats. Are there upholsterers that will do this?

    Also - has anyone had any troubles with their Homelink? I had to re program it and even though I erased the old code and then put in the new one it still sends out the old code because I can open my old garage door.

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