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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • My latest issue of Auto Week came yesterday, in which there is a small article detailing the quality issues currently with Diamler-Chrysler (and specifically with the recall of 2000 MB E-class sedans for electrical problems).

    In the article, it states that JD Powers rates DCX 15th in initial quality - - 2 spots *below* Chevy!

    Now, I'm not saying that being rated 13th in Initial Quality is anything to brag too loudly about. I'm just trying to point out that we all could've paid a *lot* more money and been having the same sort of "glitchy" electrical problems that many people on this board seem to be experiencing.

    So Take Heart: The next time the mirrors wander on your TB/Envoy/Bravada, just smile to yourself and be thankful it didn't cost you an extra $20k for the pleasure of returning to your dealer for service for the gajillionth time.
  • The A/C went out on my TB at 1700 Mi. The problem was intermitent and luckily the problem occurred at the dealership as well. The dealer replaced the cycling switch and showed me the new switch on a Aluminum tank under the hood. He stated he showed me the switch because thay had a failure rate of 10% and he wanted me to know he really did the work. He said they used to have a failure rate of 40% but that this is the new and slightly improved one and they are better but are far from good. Does anyone know anything about the new cycle switch and the failure rate. It is unbeleiveable to me that GM accapts a 10% defect rate....... What happened to QS9000 and all that jazz. Also I got my TB without the front inside seat track covers and when I asked the dealership to provide two they said Chevy dosen't put them on the front inside bolts any longer - dose anyone know if they are blowing smoke or is GM really that broke.
  • steverstever Posts: 52,572
    Here's the wiper story that you heard about:

    Windshield-wiper woe may force GM recall (Salt Lake Tribune)

    Steve, Host
  • This has happened more then once. If I'm stopped on an upward include and then gently feather the gas my '03 Trailblazer LT will stall out. I brought it to the dealer, they check out the throttle body and hosed it down w/cleaner but it still happens. Anyone else have this problem?
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    tblazed Jun 3, 2003 10:23am

    Saw that one coming. As I predicted we will all probably be getting recall notices about the water that gets in the wiper motor cover.
  • "It is unbeleiveable to me that GM accapts a 10% defect rate"

    18% spelling errors just in that sentence!
  • gam2gam2 Posts: 316
    What's irritating is all the BS we go thru at work regarding quality. ISO 9000, QS 9000, Design for Manufacture, FMEA, and on and on. Yet my '87 Toyota was far and away the most reliable vehicle I've owned. Is it just lip service or what? They
    SHOULD be better!

  • "ISO 9000, QS 9000, Design for Manufacture, FMEA, and on and on."

    From my experience these "programs" have nothing to do with quality. They define it as a process and focus entirely on the paperwork. As long as you've documented your processes, you can get be ISO qualified, even if the processes suck and the product falls apart (actual truth at my old employer). It's just more bureaucracy. . .
  • You misunderstand, the ISO stands for In Search Of quality

    They obviously haven't found it.

    (actually my 03 LTZ just has an annoying door rattle at 3600 miles, that's it)
  • I have about 8,000 miles on my 02 TB. I had the sway bar links replaced last month. I now have a clunking noise coming from the front end. You can feel it the most on a rough road coasting under 20mph I jacked it up and checked the tie rod ends and everything feels tight. My guess is a strut or bad bushing. ANY HELP would be appriated
  • I knew I wasn't going crazy and thought i heard something but my 2yr old was screaming so i really had to ask. thanks guys
  • Thanks to all the follow ups...since I had a rain water leak on the passenger side of the inside cabin, I went ahead and returned the vehicle to the dealer and requested another investigation on the clunk. I will let you all know what they find out after today.

    By the way, the water leak was on the E column on the passenger side. This is a hollow column and it filled up with water from the outside via a poorly sealed seam. Once the water fills above a column insert hole above the floor level, it starts to leak and the rugs soak up the rest. This is a factory defect caused by the robot arm that does the sealing on that side of the vehicle. The dealer knew exactly what to do when I showed them where it was coming from.
  • Well I went ahead and did it. I traded my 2002 TB LTZ for a 2004 Envoy carbon metallic. I love the color, overall I like the Envoy better. I hope all the problems with the TB are done with now.

    Anyway the new Envoy has a 3.73 gear ratio. Any pros or cons about this. I don't know much about the difference.
  • kpp14kpp14 Posts: 62
    2k_impala_ls I had a similar problem / challenge. We should all make a dictionary that defines these sounds. What should we call the sound when you leave the dealer and your forehead toots the horn rapidly? At any rate I think youve narrowed down the source. My 2002 Envoy slt now makes none of those noises in the conditions you describe. Heres what the work order says:
    "Replace front sway bar link rods (loose rods causing noise)" R&R front stabilizer shaft at control arm. Link kit 12479231 and 12479233. I just drove to Ottawa and back 1100 km (684 miles)and I have to say I really enjoy this truck. For those of you wishing to do business here....definately Toronto is the decision making place to be.
  • We stayed with the same color though (Pewter) but almost got the carbon. We did change to the dark pewter interior from the medium and it sets off the wood and silver accents better. So far, doesn't seem to be much different other than the real chrome wheels that look TONS better than the old gold-tinted chrome wheels. On the cons side, the head rest doesn't tilt any more and the antenna isn't built into the glass :( We switched from a 4.10 gear ratio to the 3.73 and it wasn't that big a deal. But the 3.42 felt quite sluggish, so we avoided it. So, anyone happen to have headrests from a dark pewter 02 they want to sell?? :)

    P.S. Even though this Envoy was $1000 more MSRP, it costs us $2000 less with all the huge rebates going on. Wow!
  • Sad but true, GM does not provide the seat track covers for the two bolts on the front inside of the two seats. About 6 months ago I took my 2003 Envoy to the dealer and asked for them and was told "NO", that GM does not supply those covers. Bummer huh?
  • 41564156 Posts: 31
    The A/C problem found my TB (02 @ 25,000) this morning. Blowing warm air only (compressor not engaging). Posts here indicate a cycling switch malfunction. Anyone found another reason for the ubiquitous A/C problem.

    As much as I like driving the TB, I can see that they are just not dependable and will be a very expensive vehicle to drive after warranty expiration, not to mention the unsettling feeling that something is likely to break at any time.
  • As busy as the dealers are, I appreciated when my salesperson called to thank me for our purchase of a 2003 Envoy. Thinking this task is part of his job and was trying to butter me up so that I will give him and the dealership a “Positive” rating on the CSI report card, which GMC sends out shortly after a purchase. The salesperson followed up by sending me a nice pair of plants, which by the way are doing nicely.

    Well, today I got a call from the Owner of the dealership, who also thanked me for our recent purchase and inquired if everything, was satisfactory with our purchase. He went on to say, if for any reason I was not content with any aspect of transaction or the vehicle to let him know so that he may correct and make it good. He provided me with his phone number where he could be reached in the future for any concerns.

    Wow! I impressed... by him taking that extra little effort. To bad I’m short on cash, I would buy one more.
  • I was driving home last night, came to a stop light and when I started to go again, the speedometer was reading ~2x the actual speed. Everything else seemed fine. After about 3 miles, I came to another stoplight. When I stopped, the speedometer returned to zero. When I started moving again, it worked properly. Bizzare. It's like the stop caused it to 're-zero' and start working again. Not sure what could have caused it to go nuts in the first place. Now my question is what happens to the odometer when this thing does this? I have never seen this before in 2 years of ownership. I hope it does not happen again. Has anyone else seen this?
    I have the latest updates and code for the dash.
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    such as the "tap the air conditioner switch under the hood" and the like should be organized and collated in rolodex form and mounted to the dash. If VW can get away with putting a flower pot on the dash, GM should be able to mount a rolodex. The rolodex would be for the LS model TB and the entry level models of Bravada and Envoy. The more pricey (technically advanced) models would of course get a Palm Pilot. The top of the line would get a wireless Palm connected to the net. That way, when OnStar fails, you could still get help. Make sure you put an ice cube tray under the Palm pilot, that way it will still work when the air conditioning fails. By the way, perhaps they should extend the wiper rain sense detector to the inside of the E column. That way we'll know if the robot missed a seam.

  • 41564156 Posts: 31
    Good idea ficuss. I have already started a notebook that I keep in the TB glovebox for my wife (She's the one stuck with driving the TB.) My first entry was re not being able to get the gearshift out of the park position. "Squeeze bottom of shift lever boot, lift up boot and push orange colored lever forward while moving gearshift out of park."
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    I'll race you to the patent office.
  • aldan93aldan93 Posts: 202
    AC, had low pressure switch replaced, Delphi makes this system for GM, Parts are most likely made in mexico or china, Electronic switches

    Clink, I have it, I believe its a design function, .125 of a second delay in transfer of power due to "The Auto 4wd Function" Gives time for the pins to lock in in case wheels slip.

    Gear ratio explained!!

    3.42 @65MPH 2100 RPMS
    3.71 @65MPH 2300 RPMS
    4.10 @65 MPH 2500 RPMS Closer to the high point of torque curve!!! used for towing, higher the ratio the more times your engine spins!!!

    So with 3.71 you will get to the red light faster and with more power than the 3.42, or beat him into a parking spot at the starbucks, you get the point.
  • "Squeeze bottom of shift lever boot, lift up boot and push orange colored lever forward while moving gearshift out of park."

    Anyone know the part number for this orange lever? My dealer wouldn't give me mine back when he removed it. I think I'll order one from to keep in my glovebox.
  • The A/C problem found my TB (02 @ 25,000) this morning. Blowing warm air only (compressor not engaging). Posts here indicate a cycling switch malfunction. Anyone found another reason for the ubiquitous A/C problem.

    I had the same problem back in April. Had the low pressure cycle switch replaced and all was well until a few weeks ago when the A/C started going in and out again. I contacted GM customer service and opened a case file on my vehicle for this problem. GM got the service manager at my dealership involved. They did some research and determined that the switch replaced in April was the old version, and he told me to come in and get it replaced, which I did yesterday. Here is the part number info:

    Switch replaced in April - FP# 1132749
    Switch replaced yesterday - FP# 89040362

    Description - Updated switch re-replace low pressure switch with even newer updated switch

    This information was taken off of my invoice.
  • i now have a front end suspension noise also.after my mechanic looked at it he said to take it back to gmc service.he suspects a bad strut as do i.i have a 2002 envoy sle with only 16k miles.quality has to improve.and by the way this noise started after taking my car for dashboard+shift lever recalls.hmmm
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    3.42 @65MPH 2100 RPMS

    Curious how you came up with that. My TB with 3.42 gears turns about 1900-1925 RPM at 70 mph. A friend with 3.73 runs 10% higher than mine- about 2100 @ 70. Numbers with the torque converter in full-lock, no slippage.
  • n7donn7don Posts: 188
    With 3.73 axle & 17" off-road Goodrich, rpm=2000, VSS=66 mph -'03 Envoy.
  • Thanks to all that wrote in about my broken antenna. I bought a replacement antenna and base from the dealer for $52 + tax. Only needed the mast and the female holder, not the stick-on base.

    As for car washes, I'll know better to unscrew the antenna now.

    A big thank you to who ever wrote in about the front sway bar links! I am making a list of the items needing attention under warranty. I have 27K on my Envoy XL SLT. I still love it but I am going to get that low speed front end noise fixed once and for all. Also, I've got the rear license plate gasket problem.

  • aldan93aldan93 Posts: 202
    Its just an example, people have no idea what gear ratio does!!! Of course you guys do, those were not real world numbers just an example, I think mine is exactly like yours Tblazed, around 1850 @ 65
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