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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • kgbkahnkkgbkahnk Posts: 89
    I, too, have been away for awhile, so I'll give an update as well....

    Took our '02 TB LTZ 4WD out of town for the Holiday weekend. I-6, w/ 3.73 rear end). Two adults, two kids, one dog, not packed *real* full. A/C on the whole way home. 38 psi in fronts. 36 psi in rears. Strong winds, but blowing at about our 4:00 position, so probably helped some. Averaged 23.5 mpg for the 240 mile trip, cruising about 4-5 mph over the limit. Absolutely thrilled!!

    Purchased new in Jan '02. Several recalls, and a few very minor warranty items that I've had addressed while in for scheduled oil changes. Otherwise, no problems in 2+ years. I love my TB.

    BTW: the kids shared a 7" portable DVD player we had sitting on the center console.
  • ross1962ross1962 Posts: 229
    Less than optimal gas mileage is normal for this engine during break in - up to 6000 miles, as is minor oil loss until the rings seat and form a good seal against the cylinder walls. 12.5-13 mpg does sound a little low though. If after 5000-6000 miles you still have that problem, I would take it up with the dealer. I have an '02 2 wheel drive, short wheelbase Trailblazer with the 3.73 rear end and I get 19-21 mpg (And I drive it pretty hard, as compared to the guy in the last message).
    You should know that this is a silky smooth engine and if it vibrates, or shudders at all at idle, then there is something wrong (which could be contributin to the poor mileage)
  • hardhawkhardhawk Posts: 702
    My brother & I did it the old way in our family's 1967 & 1972 Imperials as we hit 47 of the lower 48 by car. Dad kept a wooden paddle beneath his seat so when we started fighting in the back, he would calmly reach down, get the paddle with his right hand, reach back and start swinging. All while having the left hand on the wheel and never taking his eyes off the road. That sent us retreating to each corner of the back seat, far enough away to be clear of the paddle and to bother each other! By the way, dad went with me and my two boys (6 & 9)on a recent 2 hour trip each way. His comment about the DVD's for each kid was "that's the best money you ever spent!"
  • bradrx7bradrx7 Posts: 29
    Kingdo, I've got an 03 TB V8 (not many of us on this board) and haven't had that problem. I get atrocious gas mileage (12 city and 11.5 towing my 5000 lb trailer/track car combo) and have a clunky transmission at partial throttle which the dealer swears "they all do that". Question for you: Does your headliner squeak?
  • allenrallenr Posts: 83
    12mpg when towing 5,000 lbs?? Name one other SUV, one that could tow that load. Two that would get better mpg?

  • kingdokingdo Posts: 3
    No squeak from the headliner, do you have the sunroof? Ours does. Clunky transmission is not a problem that we have experienced.
  • dlaredlare Posts: 43
    bradrx7 said: "clunky transmission at partial throttle"

    What does this mean?

    When towing my 4000# trailer, mine doesn't like to upshift until it revs up to an insanely high rpm, and even then I sometimes have to really baby the throttle to get it to upshift at all. If not, it will just hang in second gear at 4000-4500 rpm all day long on level ground. Frustrating...

  • m1icemanm1iceman Posts: 11
    Well I finally got my TB back and the price tag on the shift lock problem $400!!!!

    I'll be calling Chevy to share my joy of having to pay for something that broke only after 2 years. It was a Shift interlock that had to be replaced, the price for the piece was $170, but they charged 3 hours for labor, 3 hours????? Well thats what the book says, so they charge by the book, but come on 3 hours!.

    Anyway, I love my truck and havent had many problems with it, but it shouldnt be breaking like this. Chevy will be getting an ear full!
  • cparise1cparise1 Posts: 109
    I've got 42K on my '02 Envoy XL. Not showing any wear and looks like the day I drove it home.

    And this info off of GM's website concerning the GM oil life monitoring system...

    "Customers don't have to worry about deciding when the best time is to change their engine oil because our Oil Life System technology adapts to their driving conditions and habits, and determines the right interval," said Peter Lord, executive director, GM Service Operations. "Since the new maintenance schedule is based on oil change intervals determined by this technology, customers can save time and cost."

    System offers significant benefits

    First introduced in 1988, the GM Oil Life System (GMOLS) is a computer-based algorithm that determines when to change the oil and filter based on engine operating conditions. The system enables owners to maximize the performance of their vehicle engine oil by sensing engine speed and temperature. There is no actual oil condition sensor. Rather, the computer continuously monitors engine-operating conditions to determine when to change the oil.

    With the GMOLS, consumers have an accurate and reliable way to monitor engine oil life. When the system notifies the owner that it is time for an oil change, consumers can go to their nearest GM Goodwrench dealer and a technician will change the oil and filter, properly recycle the old oil, then reset the vehicle's oil life system. Overall operating costs for the customer will be lower, because they only have to change the oil when needed, and they can be reassured that their engine is always running with good oil, improving the long term performance and reliability of their GM vehicle.

    Use of the GMOLS will often double or even triple the oil change interval for a typical vehicle when compared to the commonly recommended 3,000-mile oil change.

    The GMOLS will automatically adjust the oil change interval based on engine characteristics, driving habits and the climate in which the vehicle is operated. For instance, mild highway driving in a warm climate will maximize the interval between oil changes. Depending on the vehicle, this could be in excess of 7,000 miles and as high as 12,000 miles. On the other hand, short-trip driving in a cold climate may limit the oil change to 3,000 miles or less. In general, most people that drive a combination of city and highway find that the GMOLS will indicate an oil change every 5,000 to 6,000 miles. GM data shows the OLS extends oil change intervals without risk to the engine.

    The GMOLS can offer significant benefits to the environment by reducing unnecessary use of oil. GM has built more than 20 million vehicles to date with the GMOLS. In the next five years, as the GMOLS is used as intended — oil changes performed only when necessary — hundreds of millions of gallons of oil will be saved.

    The GM Oil Life System is available on all light-duty North American GM cars except for some models of Buick Park Avenue and Le Sabre, Pontiac Bonneville and Sunfire/Sunbird, Chevrolet Tracker, Cavalier and Malibu, S10/Sonoma trucks, Astro/Safari Vans, and the Pontiac Vibe. For more information about the GM Oil Life System, visit

    With more than 7,000 participating dealerships, the GM Goodwrench network is the largest automotive service chain in the industry. Its technicians receive specialized training from General Motors to provide expert care for GM cars and trucks. For more information, visit the GM Goodwrench web site at
  • I had this fixed when I purchased my '02 TB LS over 2 1/2 years ago. The dealer took the headliner off and put in some extra velcro. The headliner hasn't made a sound since then.
  • bradrx7bradrx7 Posts: 29
    kingdo, I don't have the sunroof. My headliner squeaks around the front headliner AC vents and center storage unit. I added some insulator in the myself but it is not completely solving the problem.
  • bradrx7bradrx7 Posts: 29
    Actually I wrote that badly. I meant to say my city mileage is atrocious at 12 when I get almost that good towing my 5000# trailer/track car combo.
    Sorry for the misconception. I'm very happy with my towing mileage. My old '02 short wheelbase TB got about the same mileage, but the '03 EXT V8 tows much smoother and has a bigger gas tank (25 gallons).
  • bradrx7bradrx7 Posts: 29

    My tranny problem is from a 'rollling stop'. When sitting in traffic and I come almost to a stop then get back into the throttle, it feels like I have a bad U-joint. Stealer says they all do that, but did "pack the yoke" to alleviate the clunk. Total BS but at least it is documented on my trouble sheet. I don't notice it too much when towing because of trailer brakes and the load.
  • goochgooch Posts: 13
    Debated this with my wife for a while, and we went with the headrest solution. I use my rearview mirror quite a bit (probably paranoia from being rear-ended) so having a ceiling-mounted LCD would have interfered. I installed 6" LCDs on each headrest, a wireless headphone system (transmitter installed on the ceiling) and pipe the sound into the stereo via FM modulator. Hardest thing was finding a decent place for the DVD player. I ended up making a platform that sits underneath the front of the back seat, with the player sitting on top of it. I also created a small enclosure that sits underneath the driver seat that contains the video amplifier/multiplier.

    Right now we get a slight whine that I haven't been able to get rid of. All ground is common to a single location. Even put in a ground isolation loop. I suspect the wireless FM modulator. I will probably go to a wired modulator to see if that situation improves.
  • 01_hoe01_hoe Posts: 273
    There is a source that does tuning of several different vehicles
    > for performance. Lyndon Westers of Westers Garage has produced some great results on other GM vehicles both cars and trucks. I have
    been bugging him for months for a tune for the TrailBlazer and
    Envoy I-6 4.2L engine. He is tired of hearing from me, and also
    several other owners have inquired. He is ready to do something for
    the I-6 engine. What he needs is a vehicle he can work with to
    develop and finalize the tune.
  • gofishingofishin Posts: 1
    I don't see a followup by Zonk regarding his vibration problem. And I did a search on "humming" and found some disturbing information. This problem goes back to the first Trailblazer models -- yet my dealer seems to not have heard of this issue. My brand new, out of the box, '04 hums at 55 and again at 60. Very minor vibration at the same time, felt at the pedal. (I live in flat country, so this is happening when the vehicle is NOT under load. I have not tried running up a bridge incline or anything yet to see if it worsens.)
    I also noted a slight downward fluctuation in the rpm meter when the humming starts. This is very slight, but seems noticeable each time. I had test-driven an '02 TB that had much more pronounced humming and vibration. When the dealer replaced the tires, the vibration almost stopped, but the hum was still there. I test-drove an '03 and there was no hum.
    My question is this -- for you, Bert, and anyone else who experiences this problem: When did you first notice the humming? Was it present the first time you held your speed at 60? Or did it develop over time. If I am able to return this vehicle and get another one that does NOT hum, is it just a matter of time before that new vehicle starts its harmonics?
  • pepper50pepper50 Posts: 195
    m1iceman wrote:
    I'll be calling Chevy to share my joy of having to pay for something that broke only after 2 years. It was a Shift interlock that had to be replaced, the price for the piece was $170, but they charged 3 hours for labor, 3 hours????? Well thats what the book says, so they charge by the book, but come on 3 hours!.

    If your vehicle was only 2 years old, why was this not covered under warranty, or were you already over-mileage on your warranty miles? Even if you're over on mileage, I agree that I'd let GM know your dissatisfaction. Sometime they will do the honorable thing rather than go strictly by the mileage. But based on what you've said, I don't understand why this was not repaired under warranty. Did they tell you why?

    As for charging labor "by the book", I agree that is a real ripoff. Not long ago, on an older car, I decided to put a new O2 sensor. I changed my mind and decided to let my mechanic put it on during my state inspection. I furnished the part, and figured he might charge $15-20 for putting it on, or maybe even nothing since I take all 3 cars there. Well, it took 5 minutes to unbolt the old one and bolt in the new one and hook up the wire, and he charged it on his computer-based billing "by the book"-- installation of O2 sensor, one hour of labor @ $70. I learned a lot from that experience. I would bet, however, that if there was a procedure that took them longer than "the book", that they would find a way to code the extra time.
  • aldan93aldan93 Posts: 202
    Sounds like you have an unbalanced drive shaft, tell the dealer it is the drive shaft, I went thru the same thing, if not bring it to a speed shop to balance, and have the dealer/GM reimburse you.
  • tb4metb4me Posts: 41
    Hi All it's been a long while since my last post. 93,000 miles on the 02 LT TB and still hummin. Except for the wiper motor. It's now starting to hesitate in the delay cycles--not the full run positions. I checked the National Highway Safety Transportation Board and found that a recall--#4005 for wiper motors for this vehicle exists. My question is--if GM plans to mail the recall in the 3rd quarter of the year(as stated on that board) and I have a problem now(safety related)--would it be treated as a recall problem if I dropped it off to the dealer to fix it tomorrow? My dealer says no that I would have to pay. Been trying to call the 1800 GM # but it is always busy.
  • tb4metb4me Posts: 41
    Been thru 1 cluth fan at 45,000 miles. I went to a used car parts facility and paid $185.00 for a used fan--still going at 93,000 but is starting to act up again in the mornings and at warm start ups. Looks like Gm has a definate problem with some of these things. Also I replaced the fan too. It's not too bad but you have to kinda have the ability to work on engines to figure out how to get the darn thing off and out and wiggle the new one in place.
  • pepper50pepper50 Posts: 195
    Luckily the third quarter is only 3 weeks away. Remember, unless you are in a small town somewhere, you are not locked into one dealer. Call up several. I'd print out everything I could about the recall and take the copies to the dealer. While the following article doesn't specificially say GM will pay for it before the third quarter, it says GM advises anyone having troubles not to wait for their recall letter. Read below:

    General Motors will recall about 636,000 2002 and 2003 midsize SUVs. Some of the following vehicles will be recalled:

    Some 2002 and 2003 Chevrolet TrailBlazer and TrailBlazer EXT

    Some 2002 and 2003 GMC Envoy and Envoy XL

    Some 2002 and 2003 Oldsmobile Bravadas

    Some 2002 Isuzu Ascenders

    Owners will be notified beginning in the third quarter of 2004. Dealers will cover a vent hole in the windshield wiper module with a patch. The wiper motor, circuit board, and electrical connector will be inspected for signs of water intrusion and/or corrosion and be replaced as required.

    In some vehicles, water can enter the wiper module, causing a short circuit or corrosion of the components within the module. As a result, there have been reports of the wipers not working properly. Owners should have their vehicles checked and serviced if they are experiencing windshield wiper problems. GM says that most owners will probably not experience any wiper problems, and should wait for the recall notification letter before bringing in their vehicles.
  • 01_hoe01_hoe Posts: 273
    "Dealers will cover a vent hole in the windshield wiper module with a patch."

    There going to fix a potential problem with a patch? Duct tape maybe?
    Seems like the entire unit should be replaced. I'm gonna be pi$$ed if at 60K mine with a patch goes out and I'm handed a bill.
  • bertman48bertman48 Posts: 15 '03 TB has had this problem from day one. I did take my TB to a driveshaft shop and had it rebalanced. It definitely changed the sound of the humming/growl (it doesn't humming/growl as loudly as it originally did, but the problem is still there). I can still feel the vibration and slightly hear the humming/growling. I wish GM would investigate this problem and determine what is causing the problem. It seems to me the problem is associated with the transmission (overdrive gear) or the touque converter since it only happens in overdrive. The problem does not happen if I drive 58 - 60 mph in 3rd gear.
  • cameokidcameokid Posts: 31
    bertman and others,

    I had to have my drive shaft balanced twice because the first one didn't do it right. See my previous post (#13862) on this subject for specs it should meet. The first 'balancing' changed my vibration so I knew we were on the right track. I asked my dealer to have it done again by a different shop. I took it to a guy who balances drive shafts for race cars. He was great - and he showed me my drive shaft on the balancing machine and how far out of spec it was from the first guy. I realized that this type of work is an art - they heat up the drive shaft with a (welding?) torch in certain spots then cool it quickly to make it warp back into position. Then they spin it on a spindle and measure the runout and balance, and do it again until it's good. So, if you're still vibrating, try again - and get them to show you the readings before they say they're done.

    PS - regarding prior comments about torque convertor - one way my dealer ruled out the TC is when the vibration occurs, press gently on the brake pedal while driving. This disengages the TC and for me the noise stopped while the TC was not engaged. This helped us to zero in on the drive shaft as the problem. I had my springs replaced and it had no impact on my vibration. The drive shaft balancing fixed my problem.
  • cameokidcameokid Posts: 31
    I was told the black dots on the windshield are for cars that have the automatic rain sensor wipers. My '03 TB does not have this feature but I have the dotted windshield anyway. I use an EZ Pass transponder placed at the top of my windshield just to the right of the rear-view mirror mount and it works just fine.
  • I have the vibration in the gas pedal but I don't notice the growl in my '02 TB LS 4X4. I use to only have the vibration around 55 - 60 mph, but now I have the vibration in the gas pedal at all speeds but mainly when the rpm's are between 1400 - 1600. Will the drive shaft balance fix the gas pedal vibration? I'm getting tired of the tickle in my right foot. I haven't replaced the springs or tried any other fixes and the dealer says the vibration in the gas pedal is normal.
  • scottc454scottc454 Posts: 356
    "Dealers will cover a vent hole in the windshield wiper module with a patch."

    There going to fix a potential problem with a patch? Duct tape maybe?

    Sounds fine to me. A simple problem warrants a simple solution. In fact, duct tape was originally called "duck tape" because it was waterproof.

    They did say that they'd replace the wiper module if there's any corrosion.
  • cameokidcameokid Posts: 31
    I had the gas pedal vibration AND the growl consistently at 1500 rpm - usually between 55-60 mph, but could occur at slower speeds when the tach hit 1500 (like going up a slight grade). Balancing the rear drive shaft to within .003 runout and .038 balance fixed both issues, and the dealer paid the $45. for the balancing.

    Incidentally, during my original pursuit of a solution the dealer let me drive 3 other new trailblazers on the lot (you know the drill - it's a normal characteristic of the vehicle) he was right about that...they ALL had the problem. See prior comments about Three Rivers Plant drive shaft quality...
  • dshepherd3dshepherd3 Posts: 194
    This is an old problem with the TB. I went around and around over this early in 2002. There is a TSB to replace the rear springs, wich isolates or dampens the driven train harmonics set up in lock up at 58-62 mph. the fix works pretty good till cold weather then it returns about 50%.
  • elvis23elvis23 Posts: 12
    I took my 03 Envoy in to the Dealer yesterday because I noticed some rust like looking material on the bracket for the rear glass over the weekend. I figured the part is rusting on my Envoy under warranty, no problem, they'll replace the part. Well, I was right and wrong. They will not replace the part, but they will repaint it. Apparantly, this part is plastic, and the coating has come off because the rear glass bolts were undertorqued in the factory. On the driver's side, the bolts have dug into the paint, exposing the sheet metal. They will repaint that as well. Finally, they will reseat the glass bracket properly.

    The only problem I have is that they want me to pay for this.

    I have 16,300 miles on the Envoy. Root cause was a problem at the factory. I am not happy. I will be going to another dealer.

    You may want to open your rear window glass and check out your bracket and bolts.
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