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Buick Rainier, Chevy TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy



  • imadad2imadad2 Posts: 79
    I have to side with ficuss here. The electrical problems the triplets have had cannot be forseen until after the vehicle is owned and used. No test drive will show these problems. ficuss had mostly electrical issues as have many others. Poor design, nothing else causes that. I just hope and pray my 2004 EXT has all the "bugs" worked out of it, so I don't have the same issues ficuss had with his suv's.
  • gmoudygmoudy Posts: 67
    I own a 2002 TB and have had no problems with the vehicle. Other than the stated recalls, the TB has been performing oerfectly. No Wind Noise, whatever that might be caused by, no electrical problems, except the batteryhad to be replaced after two years due to a leak. I wuldn't buy a newer version of the TB since alot of the standard stuff I got you no longer get. EX: No glove box light, no underhood light. I have lights above each door whereas the newer models ave only two lights on the roof. I believe that GM lost customers because of some poor quality throughout the years. Cutting out little items as the model years progress is one way of killing of customers. It is also a way to keep prices down while getting rid of some items. I do agree GM is in trouble and needs to wake up and change their way of thinking.
  • gmfangmfan Posts: 188
    My 02 TB has been pretty good for the past 2 1/2 years, and I have 65K miles on it. I still have the original brakes and they show about 40% wear. Not bad. I do need to get the tranny fluid serviced soon eventhough the manual states it can go up to 100K mi before service. I will probably do the tranny fluild and brakes at 75K miles at the same time. Other than normal maintenance items, the vehicle has been pretty solid. Yes, it is not as "rugged" as the Grand Cherokee and Durango vehicles I used to own, but the vehicle obviously has more "pro's" in what I was personally looking for in a vehicle...american manufactured by a amercian company headquarted here in the U.S. (remember, there are now only two pure american auto manufacturers left - GM & Ford. Chrysler merged with Daimler Benz so they do not count as truely american made in my books), decent looks, smooth ride and strong performance.

    It is starting to warm up here in the deep south, and I am still having the A/C cycling between warm and cold air at start up when the vehicle is sitting for a while. When I put the vehicle in drive and start driving down the road, it seems to clear up pretty quickly. Has ANYONE out there found a solution or a TSB #? The dealership I take my vehicle to is great, but this problem has been a challenge for them and I am tired of paying the $80 for them to tell me nothing is wrong. Thanks.
  • cbwilshacbwilsha Posts: 70
    Your problem is most likely the A/C Cycling Switch. I have a 2003 Envoy and have had to replace twice because they got a faulty batch around a couple of years ago. The symptoms are just as you described and I am very surprised your Dealer does not recognize that. It is intermittent and lots of Dealers like to rely on that as an excuse.

    The part # is 89040362 and the Description is Switch 9.172.

    It's a very simple job for the mechanic to replace and does NOT require that the gas be released.

    Good Luck.

  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    Also this old TSB, if they haven't done it already ...

    HVAC System Inoperative for a Drive Cycle, Poor HVAC System Performance
    in High Ambient Temperatures (Update HVAC Control Module Software)
    #02-01-39-005 - (09/23/2002)

    HVAC System Inoperative For A Drive Cycle, Poor HVAC System Performance In High Ambient Temperatures (Update HVAC Control Module Software)

    2002-2003 Chevrolet TrailBlazer, TrailBlazer EXT

    2002-2003 GMC Envoy, Envoy XL

    2002-2003 Oldsmobile Bravada


    Some customers may comment about no cold air from the heating, ventilation and air conditioning (HVAC) system during a drive cycle. This concern may occur at any time during the drive cycle and at any temperature setting. The HVAC system operation returns to normal after the vehicle has been keyed to off and restarted. This concern is intermittent and most likely to occur on hot days. This concern may be found on vehicles equipped with manual (CJ2) and automatic (CJ3) HVAC systems. Other customers may comment about poor HVAC system performance in high ambient temperature conditions. This concern may be present in automatic (CJ2) HVAC systems only. An HVAC control module software update was put into all production vehicles beginning in September 2002. Vehicles built in September 2002 and earlier may need this software update.


    Update the HVAC control module using software available through GM Access beginning September 9, 2002. The update will be fully available October 7, 2002 to all dealers on TIS 2000 CD version 10. This software update addresses both the intermittent no cooling and the poor performance concerns. If the software update does not correct the concerns, perform the HVAC Diagnostic System Check and repair as necessary. If the HVAC control module is replaced with a part from GMSPO, make sure the module has the latest software update. The module may need to be updated even though it is a new part.
  • cbwilshacbwilsha Posts: 70
    tblazed is correct. I had forgotten that the computer update was tried the first time I complained but it didn't do the job for me and they had to replace the cycling switch.

  • raleighraleigh Posts: 98
    A question tblazed - Did you get the extended warranty? My first year of ownership is almost up. With zero problems so far (knock on wood) I am trying to decide whether to spend $1,000 for an extended warranty, although I really don't drive very many miles per year in this vehicle.
  • gmfangmfan Posts: 188
    Thanks Tblazed and C.B for the A/C info.
  • tblazedtblazed Posts: 945
    No extended warranty for me. 3 1/2 years of no problems, just a few recalls. I am a do-it-yourselfer though, with service manual, so I can handle the less intensive repairs and the maintenance myself, usually for a lot less than the deductable. I prefer to keep my money where it's earning interest and dividends. A small percentage of people come out ahead on them, but most don't, otherwise there would be no reason for these companies to offer extended warranties. I looked over several "offers" that I received in the mail - the ones that are not GM list all kinds of things they cover that do not apply to the Trailblazer, and miss several others, what I consider very critical components an extended warranty should cover. However, if you're not inclined to repair things yourself and you can get the GM-backed extended warranty for $1000, that might be a good deal for you.
  • imadad2imadad2 Posts: 79
    This is another good point that kills me about GM. Eliminating standard features that made the TB a liked vehicle. I can handle no light in the glove compartment, and I can handle no light under the hood. However, eliminate fog lights, eliminate a light above each door, and eliminate other neat items from this suv turns more people off. I am so glad I bought a 2004 instead of a 2005. I think that the 2005 model is not as good as the 2004. I don't trust the V-8 engine that shuts down four cylinders to save gas (it bombed with Cadillac if I remember correctly), I bought the EXT, so I want a V-8 in it. Having fog lights is essential to me, and to pay extra for them when I could get them standard the year before, no thanks. Also, I think cruise control was eliminated from the option package for 2005's. GM is shooting itself in the foot by trying to make their vehicles cheaper and cutting out the goodies that made the consumer come to them in the first place. I with you. I would have to get a great deal to get me to buy a new TB. The seats may be more comfortable, but GM has taken to many things away that I love in my 2004. I'd buy a used 2004 before I'd buy a 2005. That is saying something.
  • My waranty is up in July on my 02-TB and I have 17k on it now. The GM majorgard waranty adds to you existing mileage. I am looking at 60 mo / 40,000 miles for $945.
    with zero deductible. This will make my TB 8 years old when the wananty runs out.
    I also do all of my own repairs but computer modules scare me and are expensive. For $200 a year, it is cheap piece of mind. Check out these internet prices on the link below. If you have less than 24k, it is cheaper
  • tidestertidester Posts: 10,059
    This discussion might be useful: Extended Warranties

    tidester, host
  • reddog3reddog3 Posts: 1
    I'm dealing right now with a similar situation. My Service guy tells me that both lower control arms plus the sway bar need replaced, at a tab of over $1000.00. This is with 40,000 miles!!! Any suggestions on how I can approach this with the Service Manager. I plan on talking to the Factory Rep if I have to go that far. They say that there's "no way to just replace the bushings since GM only sells the lower control arms complete, no separate bushings". This is BS and I'm going to try to go to the mat on this one, even if I have to contact our local TV omsbudsman who tracks these issues.

    Thanks for any council.

  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    For all the bluster and hyperbole about which is better or not, it's interesting to note that in 2004, Chevy TB outsold Mitsubishi Endeavor by about 8 to 1. Considering the vast dealership network Chevy has Vs. what Mitsubishi has, the Endeavor may be outselling the TB, dealer for dealer. Consider also that the Endeavor is rated higher than TB by just about every rating organization. For the power enthusiasts out there, the 270 hp TB at 4600 lbs is about proportional to the 225 hp, 4100 lb. Endeavor. The lower (by 2 inches) Endeavor has the same or slightly wider (approx.) front and rear track as the TB. The Endeavors suspension is a much newer design and as such holds the curves much better than the TB. There is no need to upgrade the stock suspension. The 225 hp. Endeavor feels like it has more available power at any speed, and the exhaust has a "growl" sound to it. Front seat leg room is a little shorter in the Endeavor but rear seat leg room is greater. The 315 watt Infinity stereo puts the power to the speakers, not the front of the radio, the front of the radio stays cool. The auto climate control works perfectly, set it and forget it. Doors and windows seal completely without needing additional foam stripping from the auto parts store. The back seats fold down with one motion, and don't hit the rear climate control console or the back of the front seats. Ground clearance for all you rock climbers is better than the TB, although I doubt anyone will take the Endeavor up a rock hill. My driving techniques are the same as with my old TB, so the mileage is about the same so far, about 20 mpg on the hwy. Mitsubishi recommends hi octane gas for the Endeavor. Running 89 octane so far has not caused any pinging or knocking. Steering is much quicker with the Endeavor, The number of turns lock to lock is less. The sunroof is probably 30 % larger than the TB sunroof. The head liner is firmly held in place and doesn't sag, as did the TB liner. The Endeavor comes with integral mudflaps on the front, again no trip to the parts store. Fog lights are standard with the Limited. Endeavor towing capability is about half that of the TB, and the hitch is not standard. The Endeavor runs at a slightly higher rpm than the TB did speed for speed, this may be why it feels like it has more power.

    More to come as things happen.
  • jimwhitejimwhite Posts: 2
    Did you get a clear answer about headlamp bulb replacement? I am looking for the answer. I want to be able to replace the bulb myself, when the time comes, without paying a dealer. As you know, the manual gives no instructions other than take it to a dealer! The Haynes manual says take the grille out first, which I tried to do, but the chrome bar won't come loose from the headlamps. Do you know what the trick is?

    :confuse: 2004 Trailblazer
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    jimwhite, go to post 5520 for instructions.
  • gam2gam2 Posts: 316
    Are you experiencing clunking over bumps? If so, rreplace the bar end link. Lower control arm bushing should NOT fail at 40K. I've never heard anyone replacing a rear bar at any mileage, much less 40K. That's complete and total BS!

  • gmfangmfan Posts: 188
    Great points Fiscuss. The Endeavor Limited you bought sounds comprable to my wife's RX 300 which starts in the $37,000 range with the features you describe. How much was your Endeavor? I bought my TB for $24,000. Why don't you compare your Endeavor vs the Envoy or Rainer? I would argue the TB is better in the following:

    TB is rear wheel drive. Is the Endeavor? I don't know about you, but I hate front wheel drive because CV Joints always go bad up front. Not to mention it does not turn as well and you fight the steering wheel torque when under heavy accelaration in corners. If you bought the AWD Endeavor, watch our for serious maintenance costs in the future. Everyone I know that has AWD runs into problems at around 100K miles.

    TB may not take the curves as the Endeavor, but TB has a smoother overall ride and takes the city roads and bumps better around town. In fact, the TB rides better than any SUV I have been in and that includes the $80,000 Porsche SUV My TB is quieter and smoother than my wife's Lexus RX300, and her car is $13,000 more.

    TB has a better transmission and drivetrain than the Endeavor. The fact that TB uses almost the same transmission as the Corvette is worth something in my book.

    The last time I checked, all makes offerer fog lamps on the higher model. All Envoy's come with fog lamps standard. I think you can get fog lamps on the higher end TB as well.

    TB Vortec 4.2 inline is one of the top ten engines in the world. Why would someone want a lighter SUV with a smaller engine? That starts to take the shape and form of a car in my book.

    Finally, and I apolize if this is not PC, but Mitsubishi built engines for Japanese fighter planes during WWII. (Japan was a different country and not a democracy back then, so maybe this is PC!!!) I don't care if it was sixty years ago...that just seems like a short time ago.

    It sounds like you are enjoying your new Endeavor. If you have have a chart, your Endeavor probably outmatches the TB if you are keeping score, but I am really enjoying mine. If you compare the Mits to the Envoy or Rainer, I bet it would be very close.
  • Very easy, You DON'T have to remove the grill. I have replaced my bulbs with zenons and the grill has never been removed. Just open the hood and replace them from behind. The driver side is easy because of no obstructions, just pop off the rubber cap using a flat screwdriver being carefull not to punture it. If I can remember, I think you just squeeze the base and twist it to remove the bulb. Just be careful not to touch the bulb, the oil from your skin can shorten the life of the bulb. On the passenger side, you must remove the air filter cover, (3 screws), and you will have more room to work.
  • imadad2imadad2 Posts: 79
    ficuss, it does sound like you are enjoying your Endeavor. I am curious as well how much you paid for your Endeavor before TTL. I paid $23,800 for my LS EXT TB and no one, not even Ford could beat that price at that time. Price was a big factor in my purchase, and I am just curious how much more you vehicle cost.

    I have the 5.3 liter V-8 in my SUV, and I love it. It is a lot more powerful than any midsize SUV engine. It also beats many V-8's in large SUV's. I agree with gmfan. If you Endeavor is front wheel drive, that is a turn off for me. I can tolerate it on a car, but a truck or SUV, no way. I would never buy a front wheel drive truck or SUV.

    As far as driving the TB, I have not driven an Endeavor, but I think my TB handles better than the Explorer, the Pilot, and the Expedition.

    The TB has many annoying small things that drive it's owners crazy. the wind noise was a big problem I had. It is fixed, and now it is behind me. For $10 I solved the problem, I know I should not have to, but once I did, there have been no problems.

    The standard features on the TB were better than any vehicle I looked at in 2004. Fog lights were standard, dual air standard, and rear air standard. Driving in Houston summers, the rear A/C is essential. If memory serves correct, Honda, Ford, nor Dodge had dual air or rear air standard on their SUV's. Some did not even offer it.

    Long story short, the TB price, the standard features, and the looks got me. The Endeavor might be a better vehicle, but the difference in price might be the closer on this for me. If I am going to pay over 30 grand for a SUV, I'd be buying the base Toyota Sequoia. The TB EXT was the cheapest and best deal there was at that time for a large SUV. So far, I think I got my monies worth.

    I am glad you are enjoying you Endeavor, and hope you have good luck with it. I hate reading horror stories on any vehicle having problems. Cars and trucks are just to expensive to get lemons, and I hope every one is please with what they buy. My TB has had it's moments, but I love it and hope I am still saying that after a few more years.
  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    The reason I compared it with the TB and not the others is because I had the TB for nearly 4 years. I can't speak of the other cars mentioned. I know this doesn't stop some from making generalizations, but I won't. Price paid is a complex number, I know the Endeavor listed at $33,700. Mitsubishi paid me $15,000 cash for my TB and I leased the Endeavor for 4 years at $405.00 per month. this included all taxes, title and transfer fees. Please, no comments about how much cheaper you got your car(s). I know of no-one who has a trade in who can state without doubt how much they paid for their new car.
    My Endeavor is an AWD car. I don't care if it lasts one day beyond 4 years and/or 48,000 miles. I will return it to Mitsubishi in 4 years. The 10 year 100k mile drive train warranty, the 5 yr bumper to bumper warranty and the 5 year "all scheduled maintenance included plan" mean I don't have to be concerned about any extra costs.
    I am enjoying the Endeavor as much as one can enjoy any means of transportation, just more than the TB. I haven't meant to offend anyone here by commenting about MY TB. Unfortunately some people take it very personally when you comment about the type of car they happen to drive. I don't get it, If you owned General Motors Co. you should be happy when someone is willing to give you feedback on your product.
  • gmfangmfan Posts: 188
    The Endeavor and the TB are different vehicles. I like the look of the Endeavor and I wish GM would do a better job designing the appearance of its vehicles. Chrysler and Ford are doing pretty good with their designs, but GM still has a ways to go. Buick and Pontiac are coming on strong with their designes on the new models and the advertising is pure genius. The newer Chevy 1500 models looks like crap and so does the Pontiac Aztec and Buick Rendevous.

    The TB was built for the purpose of heavier uses, such as towing or trailering. Often, I pull a 3,000 lb boat and a 1,500 lb trailer (4,500 lbs) with my TB and I have not done anything to the brakes or transmission and in 65K miles. I think this is good. I hear GM is going to increase warranties to 5 year 60K miles soon. I understand GM and Ford's position on being hesitate to increase factory warranties since they have so many vehicles on the road. I also understand that the Hyndai's and Mits of the world can win some people over with their warranties Fiscus, of course, "all scheduled maintenance is included plan" is part of your deal with do not own the vehicle since you are leasing and Mits has a financial interest in their vehicle. The TB came with a standard trailer hitch and harness connector, which tells me the vehicle was built and engineered and ready to pull. The Endeavor is more of a luxury SUV like the Acura MDX and I think towing or pulling was the last thing on the those engineers' mind since no trailer hitch and harness connector comes standard on those vehicles. You have not offended anyone with your comments- usually when someone says there product is better, it is usually just their opinion, not a fact.
  • malibu99malibu99 Posts: 305
    Yes, if you are replacing the drivers side simply reach behind the headlamp assembly and with a small screw driver pop out the round rubber cover that is behind the headlight assembly ( one round cover for each lamp) and from there you can twist the socket and pull it out to replace the bulb, it was very very easy and took me about 5 minutes. As for the passenger side its the same procedure but I am ot sure if it makes it easier to remove the air cleaner assembly or not. There is NO NEED to remove the grill as some pepole have suggested ( I believe there is a repair manual that says you should remove the grill also ). Hope that helps :D
  • burdawgburdawg Posts: 1,524
    I didn't have to remove the grill on our TB, just the trim piece in front of it which just pops off (spring clips). That piece extends out over the headlamps. Then unlock the headlight assemblies and they just drop out for access to the rear. I suppose you could do it from the rear while they are installed, but there's not much room on the air cleaner side. I guess either way would work.
    Of course if your like me, you'll have one side all apart when the wife comes out and says "Oh, I'm sorry dear, but I meant the light on the other side was out".
  • ross1962ross1962 Posts: 229
    They say that there's "no way to just replace the bushings since GM only sells the lower control arms complete, no separate bushings". This is BS...

    Of course it's B.S! Find another dealership and don't look back. These guys are extortionists. Many of the owners on this board have replaced the bushings. It definitely appears to be a design flaw.
  • imadad2imadad2 Posts: 79
    ficuss, I hope I have not offended you. I was trying to point out why I and I alone bought my TB. What you paid for your Endeavor is out of my price range. I did not have a 15 grand trade in, nor did I have a big down payment. I wanted a Sequoia. If I had my choice, that would have been my vehicle, and my ID would be no where to be found on this board. For the $$$, the TB had everything I needed. It could carry my family of 5 and allow me to seprate kids when the "He touched me" starts. It had a powerful engine and a decent look. gmfan makes good points in pointing out that the TB is more for towing things. The Endeavor is a nice vehicle. I would not buy one, because I don't trust Mitsu, and I can't afford it. The TB gave me the most bang for my buck, that is why I bought it. If GM did not offer huge rebates, and sell vehicles at or below invoice, I would not have bought this truck. I'd probably be in a minivan and miserable. Comparing SUV's is quite difficult, especially when one is designed for truck uses (The TB) and the other is designed more for car uses (The Endeavor). I like a lot of the Mitsu vehicles looks, but still question their quality. More than I do GM or Ford. Chrysler has lost me for life for new vehicle purchases, because of the minivan I bought from them. I have had good luck with GM, so until I get a lemon, I will buy their goods more than any brand except Toyota or Honda. Enjoy your new Endeavor. It sounds like you have a very nice lease and should get a good four years of fun out of it. If I had the problems you did with your TB, I probably would be in a different vehicle. My Dodge minivan soured me on Chrysler products, so I don't blame you for feeling the same way with Chevrolet.
  • My TB is giving me plenty o' feedback. Hauling the boat to the beach, climbing the very steep road to the mountain cabin, making the 500 mile drive to Music City, driving around town....all the time it's telling me...woo...what a great little SUV. I may not replace it with another TB (how about a VW ToeRag)....but then again I might! I'm not sure I can find anything as economical that will tow as well.....not a lot of bells, whistles, geegaws, doodads, gimcracks, geewhizzes, and wouldyalookatthats, but somehow I get where I'm going! :)
  • gam2gam2 Posts: 316
    imadad2: you are correct, one is a car trying to be more trucklike, the other is a truck tyring to be more carlike. I originally bought my Bravada because the huge incentives got me a lot of truck. I would have gladly got rid of some of the gadgets to get a more reliable vehicle. GM is not doing itself any favors when the main reason for buying is the rebate or $$$$ under invoice.

    That said, I purposely parked next to an Endeavor in our parking lot today. As far as fit and finsh go there is no comparison. The Mitsu wins hands down. My truck has panel gaps of 1/2" or more in many spots (I can slip my whole hand in between the bumper and the grill) while the Mitsu has nice tight gaps. Paint quality
    was much better also. This may not affect drivability or durability, but it sure as
    hell presents a bad image and perception problem.

  • ficussficuss Posts: 541
    Those are all of the things that broke on my TB. I guess the moral of the GM story is KISS, keep it simple stupid. The simpler the better. Many of the problems discussed here have dealt with the optional bells, whistles, geegaws, doodads, gimcracks, geewhizzes, and wouldyalookatthats.

    P.S. to imadad and others. I'm not the one who was offended. I think I may have offended some others who have taken extreme exeption with some of my comments. Some have taken it very personally to the point of replying with some very offensive comments towards me. The host has been helpful by deleting the comments. This forum is about car talk, as long as the comments are true and without prejudice I feel all comments should be welcome. There are however some who believe that GM, Ford, Chrysler and the rest have never manufactured a lemon. I am not one of them.
  • kenh2kenh2 Posts: 2
    Just bought a 2002 trailblazer and noticed a few days ago that the blower motor would cut out turning corners......then today. I turned a few circles to see if I could pinpoint issue. Then it cut out all together. no fan. I parked and idled for a few minutes and it came back on.
    any hints on what this could be... would a fuse be intermittent like this...or am i looking at the dreaded wiring problem....
    Ken :confuse:
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